No Timed Pop Notorious Monsters In New Expansion

They serve the purpose of killing noobs who claim Guko/Heqet/we and can't handle a few adds.

Just stop making content that only one group can do at a time, all it does is create congestion and annoys players. People want to be able to actually play the game, not watch someone else play. Bots aside, claiming is about 90% luck and maybe 10% skill. As long as you can pay attention and react quickly, you've gone as far as 'skill' can take you. After that, it's a matter of whether the mob decides to spawn closer to you than the competition (sometimes it's even that way from the start if the NM has a particularly wide spawning range)

At any rate, if bad players are killing NM's and getting gear, it's not because the NM's are forced spawns or are accessible. It's because the fights themselves are too easy.

Game needs competition not campout fire circle singing kumbaya

No it doesn't, at least not for battle related content.

Someone just made a thread a few days ago about a friend quiting after only 2 months because he didn't like camping the timed NM. Timed pips probably lead to more people canceling their subscriptions then those keeping them. I would like to farm every single empyrean there is but I think gun will be my last one because I don't like dealing with the timed pops that are over camped. Would love to make ochain, the sword and bard harp but I probably wont.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

People quickly forget that one of the things that has kept this game going for so long are time sinks. The longer it takes to get something the done, the longer you're playing (and paying) to accomplish your goal. This includes NMs. While I don't think things should be as extreme as HNMs, I do believe that you shouldn't be able to just mass kill fodder mobs so you can spam an NM until you get your shiny either. Not every single item should just drop into the hands of every player that wants it. Some items are meant to be at least somewhat rare.

Easy to complete content isn't good content. The faster you complete it, the faster you get bored, and the faster you quit/wait for new content that you can just steamroll to get back to waiting for something new.


Most of this I answered in the rest of my post, but I'll also add that it adds competition, which leads to a bit more of a sense of accomplishment when you finally get the item/items you're working towards. I'd find having to camp an NM for a reasonable amount of time far more fun than slaughtering EP mobs to get a pop to camp a set of ???.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by svengalis

Someone just made a thread a few days ago about a friend quiting after only 2 months because he didn't like camping the timed NM. Timed pips probably lead to more people canceling their subscriptions then those keeping them..

---

Good riddance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Habu

Game needs competition not campout fire circle singing kumbaya

---

You want competition, find it with the mobs you fight, thats where it should be. I should not have to ruin everyone elses day to get my things I want done. I see 2 types of competition, friendly, and professional.

Friendly is good, it can be a good fun type of competition because you can be pushed to strive above your friends without feeling the annoyance and anger that you get when you fall short at times.

Professional should not exist in this game, for the fact it is just that, a game. Professional is normally seen more in jobs or sports, because they are much more aggressive forms of competition, when you fall short of something, you feel very bad at times because you feel like you are getting no where, and can even become depressed. However when you succeed, you feel much more accomplishment, this is good, and bad, because it often leads to gloating to the people of whom you have already subjected to the anger & sadness that losing already brings them.

We need friendly competition, play with friends, play to be better, don't play to gloat, or think your elite. This is a game, remember that, and have fun rather than trying to think that just because your claiming a NM faster than someone, that it should be fun. When someone out claims you do you enjoy it? Or do you feel like the last few hours of your life was a simple waste of time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Habu

Good riddance.

---

Same should be said to you and your outdated thinking of how a game should work when you want to subject everyone to unfun, annoying, boring, time sinks.

You guys know Habu / Nan are just trolling you and laughing a the responses with their friends. Put them on your ignore list and go about your business.

As for "procs" they were introduced to provide an element of strategy / skill to a fight. Otherwise all fights would resemble SAM/WAR/DRK/MNK zerging with PD / Embrava, aka Legion / ADL. This requires absolutely no skill, nothing in this game requires anything resembling "skill", mostly due to SE having a case of Evil Game Master.

Next thing people are going to demand no procs so that you can display your "skill" while "tanking" a NM and killing it slowly over the course of 60 min. How about we kite it in circles and slowly whittle away at it with RNG's and BLMs. That's "skill" for ya...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Habu

Game needs competition not campout fire circle singing kumbaya

---

I think you might just be playing the wrong game dude.

Oh good point, I would really support having someone like that in my corner to defend why time pops are dumb.

I also have no problem with them putting a time limit on how often I can kill a certain NM. I just like to see progress when I log on.

As long as they include the proc system that let's everyone have a chance at being included, I'll be happy!^_^

I would of prefer a system like the current behemoth/fafnir/adamantoise system. It would be great if we have to use some sort of beastman/kindred seal or (high) kindred crest BCNM that has a rare chance to drop the pop item for a specific monster in the new expansion. Then that monster should have a fairly low chance of dropping it's big item for obvious reasons otherwise we wont have balance in the game.

I think it should only request one person to get the pop item from the various bcnm but then anyone can join as long as they're in the alliance. You'd need to introduce the tried and true proc system that everyone loves to keep promoting heavy teamwork between players instead of just mindless zerging. This game is all about the teamwork and I love that feeling of satisfaction when I hit those procs and contribute to the cause of the fight. At the end, every one should get their own personal treasure chest like voidwatch. I think that way of distributing loot is ideal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yarly

At the end, every one should get their own personal treasure chest like voidwatch. I think that way of distributing loot is ideal.

---

So long as every single item can be traded, yes, sounds good. If things are R/EX I better be able to send my shit to a friends chest if I so choose, because if I have it, and they want it, then I get it, I get a lil mad at bad design...

Proc system needs to stay where it is, ppl need to learn teamwork, how to play their jobs, and just overall not sucking. Stop crutching on weakness procing, fix the enmity system and add HNM that take 30m for skilled LSs to do. NO MORE CONTENT NOOBS CAN LEAN ON PROCS/ATMA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Natenn

Proc system needs to stay where it is, ppl need to learn teamwork, how to play their jobs, and just overall not sucking. Stop crutching on weakness procing, fix the enmity system and add HNM that take 30m for skilled LSs to do. NO MORE CONTENT NOOBS CAN LEAN ON PROCS/ATMA.

---

I agree with what you say till you call people noobs, way you use it you think your elite, which means 99% chance you are a douche.

I still don't get the whole concept of skill and endgame yet to come, as it stands we have a very broke enmity system still meaning DD's will always be tanking and the only strat that will prevail until otherwise addressed is zerging.

Perhaps i'm crazy? or am i right? habu's group need not reply.

I was going to say you're right but I was told I need not reply.

Timed spawns are fine, as long as they're not OMGSTUPIDLYLONGRESPAWN. The longest a resapwn should ever be is 8 hours for a HQ NM, so that it should have 1 pop per day during JP, EU and NA times. NQ NM placeholders should be ~every hour.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nala

I still don't get the whole concept of skill and endgame yet to come, as it stands we have a very broke enmity system still meaning DD's will always be tanking and the only strat that will prevail until otherwise addressed is zerging.

Perhaps i'm crazy? or am i right? habu's group need not reply.

---

Because we have no ability to right now, as it stands everything is to strong to fight traditionaly(VW), or to restricting(NNI) as to make it imposible. Enmity is screwed, but I think that was obvious, not to mention we have been introduced to the biggest AoE spam of mobs ever which would mean if a tank could tank it would just mean everyone else gets hurt a lil less.

Timed NMs?

AAAARGUUUUUUUUUUUS.

Seriously, weeks of camping him, maybe popped about 3 times, and I got him twice, and it never dropped. I lost a lot of sleep trying to get that damn drop. To this day, I've never owned a PCC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Habu

Game needs competition not campout fire circle singing kumbaya

---

Which is what we have to do while we wait for other parties to kill the time spawned NM we need to continue our objective of the day. We have to camp out and watch them kill it and then sing kumbaya to sooth our inner rage.

Only thing I really have to say is:

If you casuals can have what you wish no questions asked, why is it so wrong of us to get something we want as well.

And secondly, you don't like timed spawned NMs amazing, we get it, but I have to ask who in the blue f**k said you had to participate in it? If you don't like it don't do it, easy complex anyone can understand.

And we get crap for posting bringing back timed spawn NM posts yet I don't see why it's wrong for us to defend our point against posts like this in return, it's not only your game, and a lot of you who do complain, not all, either have no clue what you're talking bout, I.e. Heard from a friend or whomever, read old forum crap on hnm, or you were those guys who just couldn't claim or kill anything. All that petty crap aside point is, game should appease more than casuals, content shouldn't be so narrow minded, and no ones putting guns to your heads saying camp this. Quit rage posting crying about having to do it, you're not obligated.

i personally like timed spawns. should every nm be timed no. should some yes. >.> they need to make more 8-16 hour spawns. its not like they wont have something for u to do to get gear from. so why take timed spawns from those that enjoy it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winrie

Only thing I really have to say is:

If you casuals can have what you wish no questions asked, why is it so wrong of us to get something we want as well.

---

Pssst. Over here. Hey, buddy, I got some info for ya... Not everyone who hates timed spawn NMs is a casual.
Why am I against it being reintroduced? It makes the game look bad. Even if I don't participate, stupid content makes the game look stupid. The more archaic, outdated, and/or poorly designed content they introduce the worse FFXI looks, and we have far too much of that already.

Try imagining explaining the old HNM scene to friends who are skeptical or on the fence about FFXI. I guarantee that such friends won't be entering Vana'diel after hearing an honest description of how it works.

Quote:

---

And secondly, you don't like timed spawned NMs amazing, we get it, but I have to ask who in the blue f**k said you had to participate in it? If you don't like it don't do it, easy complex anyone can understand.

---

I have to "participate" in it by paying for its production. Sorry if I'd rather see them produce things I'd actually like to do instead.

Quote:

---

And we get crap for posting bringing back timed spawn NM posts yet I don't see why it's wrong for us to defend our point against posts like this in return, it's not only your game, and a lot of you who do complain, not all, either have no clue what you're talking bout, I.e. Heard from a friend or whomever, read old forum crap on hnm, or you were those guys who just couldn't claim or kill anything. All that petty crap aside point is, game should appease more than casuals, content shouldn't be so narrow minded, and no ones putting guns to your heads saying camp this. Quit rage posting crying about having to do it, you're not obligated.

---

We get crap for posting we don't want it anymore. It's not wrong for us to defend our point either. It's not only your game. I DO have a clue about exactly what HNMs involved. I did it day in and day out for years. I have more than enough experience with it and every right to tell my fellow players how horrible it was and every right to tell SE not to produce stuff like it anymore.

The game should appease more than casuals? In the post-Abyssea era it's not appeasing casuals at all. It's all you guys right now, so I kind of wonder what you're so upset about. There's plenty of rare hard-to-get gear and even an event that effectively promotes cheating for it (NEO Nyzul). The only difference is you don't get to make someone else miserable to get what you want, and if you enjoy making other people miserable then please seek help now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winrie

Only thing I really have to say is:

If you casuals can have what you wish no questions asked, why is it so wrong of us to get something we want as well.

And secondly, you don't like timed spawned NMs amazing, we get it, but I have to ask who in the blue f**k said you had to participate in it? If you don't like it don't do it, easy complex anyone can understand.

And we get crap for posting bringing back timed spawn NM posts yet I don't see why it's wrong for us to defend our point against posts like this in return, it's not only your game, and a lot of you who do complain, not all, either have no clue what you're talking bout, I.e. Heard from a friend or whomever, read old forum crap on hnm, or you were those guys who just couldn't claim or kill anything. All that petty crap aside point is, game should appease more than casuals, content shouldn't be so narrow minded, and no ones putting guns to your heads saying camp this. Quit rage posting crying about having to do it, you're not obligated.

---

Ill make you a deal, you can have your time spawns & HNMs, when I can obtain the gear they drop with a slightly lower drop rates and the same people, but with a pop item that is decently ok to obtain. By this I mean, the pop does not drop off of the time NM, does not get restricted by dropping from another time NM, and does not drop from something with a small rate but is limiting such as BCNMs. This way it is purely for your enjoyment if you want it, and yet people who don't want to deal with the BS that is time spawns do not have to, but suffer a slightly smaller drop rate.

Note:To specify what I mean by slightly, I mean if something has a 30% drop rate, it would be something like 20%, not 1% or 5%. This means while there is an advantage to time spawns, it is not a huge advantage, and is mainly only for the enjoyment of those who wish this content type.

You're referring to voidwatch and legion appeasing us, I'll jus note right here that voidwatch is pick up group friendly at an obnoxious level, even it with 18 retarded monkeys who understand proc can win, that's not appealing challenge wise(voidclusters have made this much much worse) nor is the gear outstanding on a rarity level as an ebody back when or dalmatica(iirc ppl were asking for it more so for rare gear that was up there like back when, not every Joe on the block has your gear) and legion is a clusterf**k that barely anyone touches at all, I don't know about other servers but on mine it doesn't exist. So I might add how is the game appealing to us right now? FYI I didn't post for a shitting contest, I stated facts, and btw hnm doesn't make the game look bad, easy content that is cleared way too quickly, a company that can't pump content out fast enough to keep up with content that is cleared too quickly, no challenge at all at 99, no point to having a LS in an mmorpg that is focused on team play, because everything is soloable or dual box able, no diversity in playerbase, looks bad. As someone said earlier, easy mode makes ppl finish and get bored quickly while time sinks and vets who participate in them ect are the ppl who ultimately hold an mmorpg together, argue it, I don't really give a damn.

I don't care if drops are split between content, so casuals have a shot, Odin shared hnm drops before anything, most QQrs don't understand that but the best bodies dropped off him, and every other bit of non hnm content dropped very good gear, so idk why so much bitching, everyone should win ina video game, some of us like to compete to win however, and more than one option for obtaining gear is always better than one and I support that, before you scream masochistic greedy whatever the hell y'all call old timers who want a piece of their game back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winrie

nor is the gear outstanding on a rarity level as an ebody back when or dalmatica(iirc ppl were asking for it more so for rare gear that was up there like back when, not every Joe on the block has your gear)

---

This is what Im against, same as I said to earlier. People being limiting on gear leads to gloating, annoyance, frustration, insults(being called a gimp loser for instance) and much more, this is bad for the community, and bad overall. Again, its a game, games should be a way for entertainment, nothing of what was mentioned in the list of what limited gear causes. It may sound nice to have it that way, but people abuse it by insulting people who are without this gear because they are "beneath them" which is bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Modoru

Timed NMs?

AAAARGUUUUUUUUUUUS.

Seriously, weeks of camping him, maybe popped about 3 times, and I got him twice, and it never dropped. I lost a lot of sleep trying to get that damn drop. To this day, I've never owned a PCC.

---

I actually got that some time ago from Nyzul Isle Investigation. °~°

It's also the first, and only 'non-junk' item I have gotten from any assault, and I've done them quite a lot (every assault mission at least once, and lots of Nyzul). I still don't quite believe it, to be honest.

What we need more is, monsters that de-spawn even if not defeated successfully after being aggravated, and they will very rarely 'drop' an item that you need at least 3 high level crafts to make into the 'real' item, and then use highly convoluted evoliths to make them better. With of course at least 3-7 days of re-spawn timer.

No, just no...

I never really understood how it is balanced to have low low drop-rates. Think about the Defending Ring. It has been in the game since what, 2006? And there are 705 of them (obviously some accounts with it are likely to be inactive, and due to the spawn behaviour, not too many King Behemoths were/are slain). But still, it will never be balanced because other people may work on it for a small eternity with no results to show for it, while others don't need to, because of luck.

One simply cannot balance luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winrie

You're referring to voidwatch and legion appeasing us, I'll jus note right here that voidwatch is pick up group friendly at an obnoxious level, even it with 18 retarded monkeys who understand proc can win, that's not appealing challenge wise(voidclusters have made this much much worse) nor is the gear outstanding on a rarity level as an ebody back when or dalmatica(iirc ppl were asking for it more so for rare gear that was up there like back when, not every Joe on the block has your gear) and legion is a clusterf**k that barely anyone touches at all, I don't know about other servers but on mine it doesn't exist. So I might add how is the game appealing to us right now?

---

Hard content. Rare gear not just anyone can obtain. Isn't that what hardcore players want? It's always what I see requested.

Quote:

---

FYI I didn't post for a shitting contest, I stated facts,

---

Opinions. You stated opinions.

Quote:

---

and btw hnm doesn't make the game look bad, easy content that is cleared way too quickly, a company that can't pump content out fast enough to keep up with content that is cleared too quickly, no challenge at all at 99, no point to having a LS in an mmorpg that is focused on team play, because everything is soloable or dual box able, no diversity in playerbase, looks bad.

---

It will get you 10-12 million subscribers, which is more than SE could ever dream of. That doesn't look so bad to me.

Quote:

---

As someone said earlier, easy mode makes ppl finish and get bored quickly while time sinks and vets who participate in them ect are the ppl who ultimately hold an mmorpg together, argue it, I don't really give a damn.

---

And hardmode, random, competitive nonsense makes people frustrated and quit sooner than they normally would... even the hardcore vets.

Quote:

---

I don't care if drops are split between content, so casuals have a shot, Odin shared hnm drops before anything, most QQrs don't understand that but the best bodies dropped off him, and every other bit of non hnm content dropped very good gear, so idk why so much bitching, everyone should win ina video game, some of us like to compete to win however, and more than one option for obtaining gear is always better than one and I support that, before you scream masochistic greedy whatever the hell y'all call old timers who want a piece of their game back.

---

Odin was harder than Kings were so I'd hardly call him casual content. The good part was that a group could participate in Einherjar on its own schedule rather than having to base their lives around some stupid spawn window. It wasn't easier, and it wasn't casual. It just didn't require people to walk all over each other and cheat2win to get loot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Ill make you a deal, you can have your time spawns & HNMs, when I can obtain the gear they drop with a slightly lower drop rates and the same people, but with a pop item that is decently ok to obtain.

---

Disagreed. IF SE went this route then the drop rates should be equal. If it's truly just the competition people are after they shouldn't have an issue with it.

True, I only said it because if drops are the same, just another reason for people to complain.

I love it when NM's are on a nice short timer... Hell even a 24hr timer would be acceptable as long as there was a world announcement of when it was killed.

What infuriates me are lottery pops! Lottery pops are awful... nothing like running around for hours upon hours killing monsters hoping the NM pops only to have it pop and not drop your item (Looking at you Leaping Lizzy). Now repeat this process several times until it finally drops.

At least with timed pops you can get up, go out for a walk, take a shower, come back and be ready for next pop.

To each their own viewpoint/opinion cam, I don't agree with you completely but I see what you're trying to say. However I'm curious who you did Odin with because at 75 it was cakewalk. My point was there was more than one option to get great gear outside hnm, even if flawed, this cannot be denied, as I said I would have 0 problem with more than one event type granting the same gear or even equivalents that are just as good, everyone is happy then. A form of nm points system would be nice though, guaranteed gear with x kills/points. Not this easy mode stupid pulse cell voidwatch crap

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winrie

A form of nm points system would be nice though, guaranteed gear with x kills/points. Not this easy mode stupid pulse cell voidwatch crap

---

Agreed, still would love to see my idea put in or responded to.

Quote:

---

1 ticket for a kill.

1/4th the tickets for any ticket buyable item that is R/EX that is relinquished or traded back to the Planar Rift of which said NM may be spawned from.



Example:Kaggen

Noteable Drops
-Mekira Meikogai
-Phasmida Belt
-Kaggen's Cuticle
-Mantis Eye
-Heavy Metal

Ticket Buy List
-Mekira Meikogai = 100 Tickets
-Phasmida Belt = 75 Tickets
-Kaggen's Cuticle = 40 Tickets
-Mantis Eye = 25 Tickets
-Heavy Metal = 10 Tickets
-Crystal Petrifact = 5 Tickets

Trade List
-Mekira Meikogai = 25 Tickets
-Phasmida Belt = 20 Tickets
-Mantis Eye = 8 Tickets

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flyinghippress

What infuriates me are lottery pops! Lottery pops are awful...

---

Definitely one of the worst ideas ever.

Well, it could work but there should be limits to it, like, going for 8-11 hours for one is utterly ridonkulous in my fair opinion...

Progression being the key in all this as well. There should be something to show for our work especially when being unlucky. Lottery isn't exactly fun, it's just something we do while hoping for the best with “can't win if I don't play” in mind. >.<

FFXI:
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...58f700158d.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Habu

FFXI:
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...58f700158d.jpg

---

Those aliens started out as incredible jerks so I guess you do have a point with the first pic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Habu

FFXI:
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...58f700158d.jpg

---

You know why this matters nothing? Because I am fairly sure you were an asshole when gear gave you that right and power, now you are the same as everyone and hate having lost it. So you want to come here and tell everyone how you want your things to be special so when people don't have it you can gloat and feel mighty. Not much reason to have separate gear between people, yet you love the idea so much, so this is what I assume you are. As such I will give you the same thing I am given all the time as a response, quit and play something else if you don't like it.

If ANYBODY can provide a reasonable explanation as to how claiming an HNM equates to "skill" (or even mastery of the game's mechanics) then I will personally change to your server and give you 5 million gil and a pat on the back.

But that's not happening, because that's simply not how it works.

Most of the time I hear people using this as the only argument to justify the existence of HNMs, it's accompanied by vigorous e-peen masturbation and is followed by a shameless circlejerk hoo-hah.

That's not to say that there aren't merits of the HNM system. There are... but the "it's a true test of skill" argument is a load of phooey. A two-fingered monkey can take visual cues and push a button before 40 other people. It's mostly about luck and diligence and the rest is about how much fast-cast or whatever you have on to nab the mob.

I personally hate lottery-spawns too. I wish they would just make more than one monster a placeholder, so you can kill several mobs and not have to be 10 minute waiting periods.

Edit: Wow that sounded way more aggressive than I intended. Not trying to offend anybody.
Also - 'skill at claiming HNMs' is not 'skill' at the game so don't try it~

Yeah right now, assuming PLD (NIN isn't even a serious tank anymore) obtained an ability that ensured they had 100% enmity for the entire fight, they still couldn't "tank". There are so many aoe's that all your melee would be dead and you'd be restricted to Kirin era tactics. BLM's and RNG / COR's would be the order of the day. Eventually the SAM's would remember they have Apex Arrow and longbows, so a bunch of AA SAM/WAR's standing next to the RNG's getting the same buffs. It becomes a fight involving two PLD's standing near the NM with a legion of DD's in the distance killing it slowly with ranged attacks.

SE really needs to stop the Killer Game Master mentality.

Every NM is equipped with deadly aoe killer moves.

They also follow a Zero Sum Game, Them vs US. This is known as the Amber Law
http://web.archive.org/web/200802120...pgcliches.html

Quote:

---

Gamemasters and players can be fully expected to try and screw each other over, even during character creation

---

I would absolutely love to see a Community Rep ask the Developers directly how they feel about that. Ask them if they really think their Killer Gamer Masters and that they need to create a world full of monsters that immediately kill all players near by.