Real PvP can we have it PLEASE S.E

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Even a duel function would have to be restricted to certain areas- or you oculd have people trying to cause disruption by spamming duel requests in events or something.

It's best to just keep PvP in designated events, and polish up the balance and offer some better incentives to participate. Adjust the ballista schedule so the lowest level caps are removed, and add a 75 cap, perhaps. It definitely does need to be made somehow easier to access, as well. the license needs to be removed and allow people to participate freely.

Ballista needs to be more inviting and more open, right now it's limited to a very tight group of people, some of which can be a bit uppity at times. Nobody seems to want to just relax and have a good time.

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sure... because SE won't even come with the idea of giving you the option of blocking someone that is spamming you duel requests right? please...


the game just need open pvp/ pvp arenas like they will do on ff14 on patch 2.0

I'd be all for a simple duel-request system a la WoW's setup.

Would make it easier to better test the effects of some abilities and spells also.

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Originally Posted by Missdivine

sure... because SE won't even come with the idea of giving you the option of blocking someone that is spamming you duel requests right? please...


the game just need open pvp/ pvp arenas like they will do on ff14 on patch 2.0

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Open PvP just will not work for this game. There's no basis for it. If the three nations were at war with each other and there was some logical reason for such PvP to exist, then it would make sense. as it is, any PvP that isn't painted as a recreational event / battle exercise doesn't make sense in FFXI"s world. There are no opposing factions for players to take sides on.

Realistically, the best thing they can do is to adjust and polish what they already have, make it feel more rewarding, and make it more accessible. Any totally new PvP system would require too much work on the devs part when there are a lot of other things to do.

just need to bring back the old HNM pop once a day or week, all the pvp we need.

I see what you did there.


Buuuut, no thanks.

More like bot vs bot

I'm of the opinion that unless the game was designed for PvP first it'll never be balanced. After all PvP player mechanics will work perfectly fine in PvE if the game content is tuned to it. The reverse is rarely true though. Take WoW as an example. 1v1 and even 2v2 will never be balanced simply due to raid mechanics not being designed for the low numbers of small scale PvP.

That said I'm not opposed to adding more PvP options to FFXI as long as it doesn't come at a cost to the games future PvE path. I don't see that happening though. FFXI is very much operating on limited resources. Taking the time to add this feature will almost certainly come at the cost of something else.

If you want uncap official matches: Fenrir
If you want 60 cap official matches: Carbuncle(jp time only) and Lakshmi

Ballista in it's current state is absolutely perfect.
Although, uncap needs a damage adjustment -again-

I've taken it upon myself to promote ballista on Undine - but unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough incentive for people to participate.

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If you want uncap official matches: Fenrir
If you want 60 cap official matches: Carbuncle(jp time only) and Lakshmi

Ballista in it's current state is absolutely perfect.

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Ballista is not perfect, and the fact that you can't simply do it whenever you want and regardless of your server should be a good indicator of that. I love Ballista, but it has barriers to entry that SE needs to resolve before any rank-and-file player will take any interest in it.

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Ballista is not perfect, and the fact that you can't simply do it whenever you want and regardless of your server should be a good indicator of that. I love Ballista, but it has barriers to entry that SE needs to resolve before any rank-and-file player will take any interest in it.

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If there was a lineup of players waiting to get into the diorama, I could see your point.

Err, my whole point is there ISN'T a lineup of players waiting to get in. If ballista was "perfect," then enough people would be playing it such that official matches would occur on a regular basis, you could shout for and find people for custom matches any time, and you wouldn't have to switch servers just to find players.

Part of the reason nobody does ballista is there's no incentive to. The other part of it is the technical flaws, having to make special macros just for ballista due to the gearswap restriction (which was instituted largely because of a flaw in the game itself that still exists to this day), and the fact that the level of balance varies significantly with the chosen cap. If it was perfect, then level cap wouldn't matter that much for the level of enjoyment and people would play at all caps.

In short, don't call something nobody wants to do "perfect." It has nothing to do with people not liking PvP and everything to do with the flaws in the PvP system.

Idk I am with Evviva. I love ballista and playing on Lakshmi.

Now as far as 1 vs 1 I feel a place in Jeuno/Aht Urghan like a battlefield for ballista anytime would be fun. Allow like 15 different arras to battle in and allow others to watch. It is free to play and for fun.

I love ballista too. It's just not "perfect." It is fallacious to be "with" someone calling it perfect when it's not. Everything in the game can be improved and Ballista is no exception.

It's a simple fact: If it was so "perfect," there would be more people playing it.

Becuase every class is not directly balanced against every other, 1v1 is poor in this game and I don't understand why people want it so much. The PvP system was designed around it being a team game, just like the rest of the game was originally. Ballista is at its best when you're playing with two full teams and you're actually playing the "game" of ballista instead of mindlessly attacking each other. There is much more strategy and tactics in play when it is played the way it was designed.

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Err, my whole point is there ISN'T a lineup of players waiting to get in. If ballista was "perfect," then enough people would be playing it such that official matches would occur on a regular basis, you could shout for and find people for custom matches any time, and you wouldn't have to switch servers just to find players.

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I understand your point, but you have to remember ballista is very old... after all it is 2012, and with that being said; ballista did indeed flourish with its inception for consecutive years - think: capped out official matches for level 30, 40, 50, 60 and 75 cap.. we even had people pouring into the diorama for 1v1 duels and random shenanigans.

The game has changed drastically over the years, and every so often ballista would receive minor updates as well - they weren't as glamorous as the rest of the game, nor were they sparkled in front of the player base... but they were absolutely present.

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Part of the reason nobody does ballista is there's no incentive to.

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I see this very often, and it always seems to be in the form of tangible rewards.

It really is a shame that people's interest is solely propelled by this facet, when on the contrary the pure enjoyment gained out of ballista keeps myself and numerous others coming back after all these years.

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The other part of it is the technical flaws, having to make special macros just for ballista due to the gearswap restriction

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A good friend of mine spams his equipment change macro when he is near a rook while trying to score with many opponents preventing him from doing so.
...now this is a perfectly acceptable strategy, as it increases his chances of scoring, and doesn't penalize him too much unless he decides to fight back - for me, a simple counter to this is playing on a pc... others not so lucky might not share the same advantage.(ps2, xbox360)

So yes, a "restriction" but a very good one.

And if blinking and equipment changing was allowed... ninjas.. ninjas everywhere.

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and the fact that the level of balance varies significantly with the chosen cap. If it was perfect, then level cap wouldn't matter that much for the level of enjoyment and people would play at all caps.

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In every single level cap there was a job combination that greatly overpowered others, inducing players to pursuit a clear advantage.
This malicious behavior caused a lot of level caps to simply die out.

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In short, don't call something nobody wants to do "perfect." It has nothing to do with people not liking PvP and everything to do with the flaws in the PvP system.

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The message that I've been trying to convey is the exhilarating feeling of adrenaline that ballista provides, the unwavering competition of a well played match(or a 1v1 if that's your cup of tea).

But in short, adjusting to the environment and dedicating effort to adapting is a lot more difficult than asking for a fix. I understand~

It is not perfect but I love it the way it is. That is called Stratagy. Yeah sure the rewards are low but its worth it to me. I enjoy my time there playing with everyone, win, lose or draw. See, Players who do come, often do so, to have fun. The newer generation of players as compared to 2004 is very different. The few of us still here from then. To those who joined in like 2008, ballista was shown as nothing but a waste of time. To those who appriciate the whole game, like us, ballista is an event of fun, and teamwork. Such as we teamwork to make Abyssea happen, to make walk of echos happen, campaign, missions, quests, we all do teamwork. Ballista is just against real people instead of monsters, means more stratagy. Its not perfect. Something does not need to be perfect to enjoy it. Each race has its own specific weaknesses and strengths. Balancing it would require that a taru and elvaan can hit for the same damage. also that magic can be cast the same with all races for same damage. I feel let a taru have weaker STR and a galka have more HP. There are ways around everything. It just takes thinking. It can be done.

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I see this very often, and it always seems to be in the form of tangible rewards.

It really is a shame that people's interest is solely propelled by this facet, when on the contrary the pure enjoyment gained out of ballista keeps myself and numerous others coming back after all these years.

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It's a simple fact that reward drives gameplay in an MMO. In some ways it is sad and I agree, but it applies to everything we do in the game. Why do you think Walk of Echoes is unpopular (even though I find it a fun and interesting event)? Because the rewards are disproportionate to the effort.

Would WoW's PvP be as popular as it is if there were no rewards for doing it (even thought the rewards are mainly useful for PvP and not for anything else)? I really don't think so.

If I could have something, even if it was just a useless trinket that let people know that I played ballista and I was good at it, I would take it. The titles/chevrons aren't good enough because you can't even keep them indefinitely. I'm not really asking for much here. There were a few special hats made for PvP, but they only exist on a handful of characters that probably aren't even playing the game anymore because it was a one-time live event they were awarded at, making them among the rarest items in the game. But if you ever actually saw one of them, you'd know that guy has been places. :p

At the very least, the already-existing reward (EXP) could at least be brought in line with the time taken to recieve it or at least adjusted to account for the fact that EXP awarded for almost everything else in the game has been increased dramatically.

I completely comprehend your point of view... but to be perfectly honest. I cannot relate.

Ballista in itself is a reward, a treat - a welcome change from the monotony of FFXI.

It truly is a shame that more players can't open their eyes beyond the tangible rewards.:confused:

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Originally Posted by Evviva

I completely comprehend your point of view... but to be perfectly honest. I cannot relate.

Ballista in itself is a reward, a treat - a welcome change from the monotony of FFXI.

It truly is a shame that more players can't open their eyes beyond the tangible rewards.:confused:

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Unforunately, the vast majority of people on this earth are not so pure as to enjoy something that has no reward. tangible rewards, even if they aren't functional, can be attractive. The fact is, if there was more incentive, the event would get more exposure, and people would discover "OK, the reward is cool, but hey, this is actually FUN!" People would be more keen to discover it and then participate more in PvP regardless of any future reward.

(I don't want to see rewards because I want them personally, I want to see them because it would mean I get to play ballista more)

TL;DR: You really just need something to hook people in. Once you have them, as long as they're having fun, it doesn't matter what comes after that.

I agree with everything you have said, kudos~

My only wish is for people to step one foot into ballista... maybe then they might realize how incredibly deep and rewarding it can be!

Ahh, I remember my previous (and only slightly successful) attempts to promote PvP. I even used Player Event Support to try to garner a bit of attention. Anyone who walked by tillecoe was greeted by this guy telling them to play ballista... or else.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...goldenorc2.png

I also had this stuff in PJ:
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b1...wermoogles.png

Hah! That's awesome!

On a side note:

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/29...llista-royale/


Also, http://vanatime.de.vu/.

60cap and uncap official matches.
60cap and uncap Hako(Diorama mirror matches).
1v1 bouts.

Everything is possible~

If interested, pop on to the test server and grab a pearl. Event scheduling will be that much easier.

In case a sack-holder is not online, please PM myself/vyii or deshio.

Straight copy from the thread I created on ffxiah: http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/28...test-server/4/

Please join us~
It is evident that ballista will not be receiving any updates in the near future.. so let's make the best of it!

How do you get the ability to place those things for player events? I've never done one or seen one lol, just know of the special hotel place in Aht Urghan.

There's a form where you apply for player event support on the official site. After submitting an event, a GM will speak to you before your scheduled time to set up the NPCs for you and make sure everything meets with your approval.

(Note that the golden Orc there is not one of the normal objects you can choose in the form- The GM helping me mistakenly put that there, and I said "you know, that's cooler than what I picked. Can you just leave him there?")

At any rate, I prefer uncapped ballista, as I hate level caps in general and it's more fun to have all your abilities available- especially on a few jobs that really need them to be effective in PvP. I also don't like having to dig through my storage to retrieve AF and low level gear. (Sometimes for uncapped, we'll institute house rules, like no relic/mythic/empy weapons to ensure the playing field is still reasonably level). The metagame is very different, but the balance is not as off as some people think.

And we should not give up in asking for adjustments- keep asking and maybe one day we'll receive something.

Oh yes, we actually played a few matches last night. Uncap.

By all means, if the community keeps pushing.. I'm sure some result will come out of it!

In the meantime. Captain Planet, or Undine if you prefer~

Before our conversation about the definition of the word perfect, I made this post :

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If you want uncap official matches: Fenrir
If you want 60 cap official matches: Carbuncle(jp time only) and Lakshmi

Ballista in it's current state is absolutely perfect.
Although, uncap needs a damage adjustment -again-

I've taken it upon myself to promote ballista on Undine - but unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough incentive for people to participate.

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So, let's get real for a moment. Players have a choice.
1.) Wait for the dev team to take notice of the numerous threads created and do something about ballista.
2.) Promote ballista on your home server, and hope that it catches on.
3.) Level an alternate character and join a server that still plays.
4.) Server transfer to an aforementioned server.
5.) Log on to the test server, Undine.
6.) Keep swarming the forums with ideas on how ballista should be changed, while consequently arguing with everyone who might have a different opinion.
7.) Do nothing.


All 60 cap vs uncap vs team vs 1v1 semantics aside there is a clear and present truth in all of this.
The people that are most vocal more often than not fall into the category of 1, 6 & 7.
Of course, everything mentioned is directly relative to how much people actually care about ballista. :p

In the meantime, I'll keep trying to promote ballista on Undine - even though there really is no reward in it for me and the many others that happen to join.

tldr; If you want to play, do something and stop waiting~

1) We're already doing this, and it's a good thing.
2) This is nearly impossible. people either wont play unless their grievances with the system are addressed, or if they don't know about it, are difficult to convince to join since there is no incentive (the number of people in this game that happily do something for nothing is shockingly small)
3) I shouldn't have to pay extra money to play certain content just because the people that like it most are on a different server than the one I randomly got put on when I created my character 8 years ago.
4) See #3
5) People have done this, but the number of people that actively participate in test server activities is very low so the situation isn't much better
6) You place an extremely negative connotation on this, when in fact it is a good idea for us to all be discussing the issues with ballista. I don't see anyone acting as though their opinion is the only one, which is what you seem to be suggesting here.
7) The people that care but do nothing are only doing nothing because they don't know what they should do.

Enjoy ballista~

In the meantime, I will as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oIFZ...g&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mAUH...4&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrxeZ...7&feature=plcp

Daily.

If only that could happen on every server...

Hay guys, My server does Ballista some times so that means the event is perfect and you're all crazy for thinking it needs an update :D!

/sarcasm off.

on a Slightly more serious note, Ballista suffers from the problem of having no reward. Which is why most people don't bother doing it. I like the idea of more PVP, but at the same time, I realize SE Does not like that idea, Or didn't, some odd years ago.

Advertising Ballista on your server could be a good idea. I'd start by making a thread on the FFXIAH Server Forums, Maybe one here too, If you can get enough interest, Could probably spread it by word of mouth then too.

Kinda late in the game, Everyones bored and hates Voidwatch, nows the perfect chance to coerce them to kill eachother.

When did ballista -stop- being perfect?
Was it never perfect?
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

All I can see from numerous posts is that ballista lacks rewards. Is that what players want?
Please help me understand.

What do players want exactly?

I'll start.
I love extremely competitive and fast paced ballista. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8OhV6Bn7qM
There is nothing in this game that provides -me- with the same rush, it's a drug.

With that being said, ballista has always been ruled by japanese players.
-My- personal goal is to find equally disciplined, devoted and skilled NA/EU players who share a passion for ballista.

Ballista is extremely complex and deep, asking for an update seems very strange to -me-.


Thanks for reading!

Video courtesy of Vyii~

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Was it never perfect? Yes. It was never perfect. Nothing is ever perfect.
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista? I don't know anyone who does this.

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What do players want exactly?

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commonly wished-for things;

1) Removal of blinking from the entire game thus removing the need for the gear-swap penalty. Many players do not like not being able to maximize their potential in PvP.
2)Rewards. Some people want a reason to do ballista versus doing anything else in the game that they might also find fun. Most people get the "rush" you speak of when the reward center in their brain is triggered by a chemical reaction in their body. in most cases, this is typically gained by recieving something and the brain interpreting it as a benefit.
3) more control accomodations: Some existing things could be revised, like instead of having a text command and taking up a macro slot to use /targetopp, simply having the F8 key do the same thing
4)Polished balance at all levels of play. The balance isn't bad when you factor in team play, but it isn't flawless (nor is it in any game in existence0
5)Easier to access. Make the ballista license quest completely optional, and perhaps add an extra perk to it in exchange. having to complete some of the missions and do a boring, run-all-over-the-world quest just to participate hinders people getting into it. i've asked a number of people to join me, then I explain to them they need to do a quest for the official matches. They go off and start to do it, and then I never hear from them again. Also, simplify the sign-up process. Just like almost everything else in this game, it's needlessly complicated. Another great thing would be to sign up from the pursuviants and be teleported to the match automatically if it happens. No more teleporting to a match only to have it not happen.

6)Drastically reduce weakness in PvP and/or raise cast time: This one's not really required but just a thought I had. The tactical choice and advantage of being able to keep Petras if you are raised is marred by 2 things. One, until you've died several times, it's actually hard to raise someone before your timer ends. Two, weakness is a death sentence. No point in raising someone to save their petras when they're almost certain to just die again and it leaves the raiser in a vulnerable position for a long time.
7) Make ballista and brenner reservations good for a period of time from application, instead of for set start and end times. Even better, make the Dioramas always accessible for play publicly at all times, and make reservations only for private matches. This will also make things a bit more inviting, and reduce competition for time slots. During the last hours my ballista event (pictures above), a JP group took over the Diorama just before i could and would not the 10 or so people I worked hard to gather join them.

8) Not ever going to happen, but my biggest dream: Cross server official mode battlegrounds. Quite simply, eliminating the barriers between all the players who want to do ballista. The test server does help in this regard, but it's not a very convenient option. Nobody should have to switch servers and abandon friends just to enjoy one piece of the game that isn't popular on their server.
9) Revamp the schedule. Eliminate 30/40/50 caps: even when a lot of people were participating in ballista on our server when it was in test stages, nobody did the low level caps- 60 and uncapped were the only ones that ever happened. eliminate the 1 hour gap between matches, and in fact have matches active in all three areas at the same time, so players can choose the mode they prefer. "Hmm, tonight might be a good night for ballista... next match; 30 cap best of three. nope, maybe not.'


Just because you personally love it the way it is doesn't mean that it can't be improved.

I honestly think your overbearing nature may turn more people off than on. Lighten up and be a little more open minded. What seems strange to -you- may not be strange to many others.

If I could do ballista regularly, without paying whatever it costs for a server transfer and thus without severing ties to lots of people I may know, that would keep me playing this game a lot longer.

I'm not going to comment on the suggestions you posted, good luck.
This is not a sarcastic statement, all of my posts are written without any notion of sarcasm in mind.

Since you don't care enough to read my posts thoroughly and quote my post(s) correctly, I shall extend the same courtesy.


But, to note:

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I honestly think your overbearing nature may turn more people off than on. Lighten up and be a little more open minded.

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A quick search provided me with...

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At any rate, I prefer uncapped ballista, as I hate level caps in general

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I also don't like having to dig through my storage to retrieve AF and low level gear.

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...there are many more quotes I can delve into, but I will stop. After all my overbearing nature may turn more people off than on... and....oh I should try to be more open minded?

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60cap and uncap official matches.
60cap and uncap Hako(Diorama mirror matches).
1v1 bouts.

Everything is possible~

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A quick excerpt from one of my posts, in an attempt to promote ballista on Undine, the test server.

I'm not holding back anymore.

This thread is called: Real PvP can we have it PLEASE S.E.
How ironic~
A very small percentage of the EU and NA player-base has actually experienced real ballista.
Let alone know what it is.

I unlike many others showcased on this forum, don't have the luxury to ponder of special updates for ballista, as I am -still- after a multitude of years playing trying to perfect my game.(Yes, perfect my game!)

Don't believe me? Visit this blog: http://vyiv.wordpress.com/ and read just one strategy outlined.

I tried to keep this as short as possible, since I'm expecting a written ostentation of no, but...

well if they did then all the noobs would get f#$# up by the old school players that know how to play this game ^_~
PVP is ok but you get docked a point for gear swiping which kinda sucks

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Originally Posted by Evviva

When did ballista -stop- being perfect?
Was it never perfect?
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

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I'll drop a hint on you. Just because maybe 5% of a Population plays Ballista, does not mean the Event is perfect. Think with me here, People play FFXIV, no one would argue its perfect. People do Chocobo Racing, No ones saying thats perfect. Just because you can enjoy event, does not mean its PERFECT.

Can. you. Follow. This. Logic?

Your logic is mixed up. You think, "well, I enjoy Ballista, and some people on my server likely totally less than 2% of the Servers population do as well... So its a perfect Event." When in reality, If it was a perfect event, You'd likely never get to play it because theres a limit on how many people can participate in Ballista, and if it was a useful event, people would be lining up to do it.

Same could be said for the Reserved zones, If Ballista was popular, You'd likely never get in. In reality, You can only Ballista so often because its so unpopular.

You and your 5-10 Buddies on one server does not constitute a completed, well built, perfect event. It just means you guys are so bored out of your eyeballs you find running in circles around eachother fun. Which I can see happening, Because even i sometimes feel like running in circles swinging a knife at people.

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All I can see from numerous posts is that ballista lacks rewards. Is that what players want?
Please help me understand.

What do players want exactly?

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I can't speak for other players, But what i want is what every other game already has for PVP, Rewards. a Meaning to actually doing it. If i wanted to do something for no reward over and over I'd continue doing Voidwatch. I understand for you, Being able to fight someone whos probably running in circles around you because thats as "Strategic" as most people get in Ballista is really exciting.

But for most players, Its lacking. Half the people in this thread probably really enjoy Ballista, They just wish it was more popular so people would participate and the could stroke their epeen to pwning noobs who are in ballista for the rewards. For a lot of players, its a turn off because it feels like some jobs are extremely favored in Ballista, which is true to some extent. My only peeve with it is i can't switch gear. That is why i hate the event personally.

If i wanted to run around in 1 set of gear pretending it was acceptable I'd make rude posts yelling at everyone for being so rude. In my eyes, Locking gear makes it a terrible event. You can't maximize your job, So it benefits jobs who are basically retard-proof. Jobs like THF are good and F**ked because they are very Macro heavy jobs. Same with RDM. Jobs like that are boned in Ballista because they have to chose 1 Gearset.

I know why its penalized, because Blinking could be abused as a tactic. But it still frustrates me. So basically to sum it up, People want reasons for their actions, they want rewards for their effort. Helplessly beating up some guy over and over is only fun so many times.

And for the record before you prance on about not reading, I read your entire post, But what i had answers for was the first half, and yes, I even watched your Videos. It pretty much matches what i expect out of Ballista. on side destroying the other while people run around in circles.

Got to give the guy credit though, He loves his Ballista, and he looks like a good player, Have nothing against him. Just the event itself sucks.

What is this?
You did not even answer one question. As per your logic... ballista has always had this magical 5% of the population participating?

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You and your 5-10 Buddies on one server does not constitute a completed, well built, perfect event.

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Oversight?

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If you want uncap official matches: Fenrir
If you want 60 cap official matches: Carbuncle(jp time only) and Lakshmi

Ballista in it's current state is absolutely perfect.
Although, uncap needs a damage adjustment -again-

I've taken it upon myself to promote ballista on Undine - but unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough incentive for people to participate.

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And for the record before you prance on about not reading, I read your entire post, But what i had answers for was the first half.

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Did you really? That would insinuate that you read my last post and your comprehension of ballista tactics is running in circles around each other?

I appreciate the attempt at being witty, But unfortunately, Your post further outlines my point.

They did answer your questions, both Karbuncle and Alhanelem. I'll give it a shot, too, maybe you just need to hear it over and over from different people.

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Originally Posted by Evviva

When did ballista -stop- being perfect?

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It was never perfect.

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Originally Posted by Evviva

Was it never perfect?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Evviva

Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

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"Players" makes it sound like a lot of people actually do that. But they don't. Only some do, a minor fraction. And it's because these "some" people enjoy it, which says nothing about why others don't or about the state of the event as a whole. Some people enjoy Windows Pinball (including me), that doesn't make it better or even "good". It just means that it falls into a favorable part on the spectrum of things I enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Evviva

All I can see from numerous posts is that ballista lacks rewards. Is that what players want?

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Yes. I also like how you've indirectly excluded yourself from the playerbase in this sentence, implying that you're fully aware of how lacking in players this event actually is.

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Originally Posted by Evviva

What do players want exactly?

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Entertainment. Entertainment, however, covers an extremely large range of activities. To you, playing Ballista in its current form is entertaining. That is not the case for most other people, and both Alhanelem and Karbuncle have given you plenty of reasons why. Here's the ones I consider most important:

• No rewards. May sound like a poor reason to you, but it's the core of an RPG: developing your character. That's why people love obtaining new gear and getting new spells. Ballista features absolutely zero such content and as such goes against the very nature of MMORPGs, which is why not many people playing this game are into it.
• Jobs are heavily unbalanced. People like their jobs to be useful in some way, but for Ballista that's usually not the case.
• The game wasn't designed for PvP. That is different from before, because is not about balance, this is simply about the playstyle. The "circling" issue Karbuncle mentioned is quite a relevant one, as it goes against how this game is usually played, which is either steadily facing a mob where targeting is a big issue. That's why it can be abused by running around opponents. That doesn't work on mobs, since the server would automatically autoadjust. And the delay makes that more guesswork than strategy for PvP.
• People don't wanna change their playstyle entirely for one event. Disabling gear swaps makes every aspect of their usual playstyle (gear for the moment) completely invalid. However, it does not change the requirement for different aspects, only the ability of the players to maximize each one, which is a kick in the nuts. Add to that that they'd have to change all their macros just for it and that alone makes it not worth it for a majority of people.
• Organisation and scheduling. It's horrible to try and get a Ballista match started. You just can't go like "hey, let's PvP", you actually have to wait and schedule with the (currently empty) pre-reserved time slots for certain events. And starting a match in itself is an art, one that most people don't have the patience for.

These are a few of the issues most people currently have with Ballista. You, on the other hand, only have one reason for it: "It's fun to me and a few friends". You can praise it as much as you want, but if you don't see or acknowledge these issues that most people have with it then you're just being ignorant. Or you do acknowledge them but don't want to accept them, which makes you arrogant in believing that your opinion is worth more than other peoples'.

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Originally Posted by Evviva

I appreciate the attempt at being witty, But unfortunately, Your post further outlines my point.

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What exactly is your point? I seem to have lost that somewhere along the way. Or you have, I don't know yet which it is. Are you trying to convince us that Ballista is good, even though we have our opinion and you can't argue opinions?

I also wanna note that personally I like Ballista. And when I say "like" I mean that despite the reasons I listed above, all of which annoy me, it would provide me with enough entertainment for me to actually do it. The only reason why I don't is simply because I can't find any other people who feel this way at all. The last person I knew who enjoyed Ballista quit some time ago.

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Originally Posted by Evviva

What is this?
You did not even answer one question. As per your logic... ballista has always had this magical 5% of the population participating?

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You aren't good with exaggerated and sarcastic statements are you? Or are just being purposefully thick headed? Those numbers aren't real, they're a intentional low-end number of the situation to drive emphasis on the idea Ballista is unpopular.

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Oversight?

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Nope, I was implying that your "View" of Ballista is narrowed to your little handful of people community who actually do the event. Even if you had 200 participants regularly, Thats still only about 0.1~0.2% of the Entire population doing Ballista. If you told me you had 2,000 people regularly doing Ballista with you, I'd probably still point out thats still about 1~2% of the current population.

I'm not saying you can't enjoy Ballista, but claiming its perfect is probably one of the more confounding things I've ever heard. So tell me, How many people do you actually have participating regularly in your Ballista? Again, the games population is what, about ~150,000? I really just don't know.

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Did you really?

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Every. Last. Word. Of that post. I didn't read your other posts, But i read the one i quoted. To the extent i could.

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That would insinuate that you read my last post and your comprehension of ballista tactics is running in circles around each other?

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actually, The Running around in a circle was more of a joke That i find funny, and thats all that matters, ever. Because thats all people do in Ballista. engage and run around in circles trying to avoid being hit. I mean, Except the RNG Who stood there and took it like a good Galka.

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I appreciate the attempt at being witty, But unfortunately, Your post further outlines my point.

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If your point is "Ballista sucks and I'm entirely too thickheaded to see why it sucks so hard", I can agree with you on this, If its anything but that, I can't say I'm outlining it. Ballista sucks as is. Its a half-had event with absolutely no effort put into it. Look at PVP in other games to really see how it could be done well. PVP in FFXI was a half-hearted attempt to appeal to the people crying for PVP.

Thats the core of the issue though, FFXI from the beginning was designed completely to be PVE Only. When FFXI was first released, there was no PVP, FFXI's vision was a PVE Game entirely, There was enough demand to add PVP, but SE didn't want PVP, they wanted a world where people co-operate. Or something to that extent, Theres an interview about it from waaaaay back when. However, when PVP Was added, There was no real thought to balance in it. It was just thrown in.

The game was never designed to be PVP, there is no PVP Balance when JA's and JT's are considered, or Weaponskills, etc. The game is designed around PVE, so when PVP is tossed into a core-designed PVE Game, It creates Ballista. Penalties for switching armor because they had to think of a way to stop that from being abused, etc, and why some WS and spells seem to be ungodly powerful in PVP, capable of one-shotting players. Even the battle system is not designed for PVP.

Everything about Ballista is a failed attempt to integrate PVP to an entirely from-the-core PVE Designed game. They did a decent job, but the event lacks any spirit or reason. Its just 'there', and has gotten I believe next to no updates or adjustments since its release.

Its not entirely Ballista's fault either, Its just this game was designed ground-up to be complete PVE, and if you try to integrate PVP into a game designed for PVE, it becomes clunky, and you get crap like Penalties for switching gear, which is a designed aspect of the entire game you're suppose to use to maximize your job.

So no, the event is not perfect, its very very far from perfect. I'm not saying you can't enjoy the event, Its just not perfect.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

They did answer your questions, both Karbuncle and Alhanelem. I'll give it a shot, too, maybe you just need to hear it over and over from different people.

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Perfect was immediately recognized as a fallacy, in reality it derived from an opinion that was mentioned here:

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Originally Posted by Evviva

If you want uncap official matches: Fenrir
If you want 60 cap official matches: Carbuncle(jp time only) and Lakshmi

Ballista in it's current state is absolutely perfect.
Although, uncap needs a damage adjustment -again-

I've taken it upon myself to promote ballista on Undine - but unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough incentive for people to participate.

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An informative post that was completely disregarded and met with scorn entirely for the use of one word.
To elaborate:
Perfect, in this case, is an opinion based on countless hours of research designed to combat an otherwise under researched event. An opening, if you will, for some great information exchange.
"What does this person know that I don't? Their opinion differs greatly from mine."

Instead, in forum fashion I was greeted with anarchy and nescient statements.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Ballista is not perfect, and the fact that you can't simply do it whenever you want and regardless of your server should be a good indicator of that. I love Ballista, but it has barriers to entry that SE needs to resolve before any rank-and-file player will take any interest in it.

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How often do you really want to play? Excluding 30, 40 and 50 cap - a typical vana day will include 3 60 cap matches and 3 99 cap official matches. Diorama-Abdjhals-Ghelsba and Abdhaljs Isle-Purgonorgo are available for reservation every 2 real time hours..(really though, reservation is available at any time) the later of the two nullifies the need for a ballista license.
That means 9.6 hours of any given day, official matches are available. Not enough? Between the two venues of Diorama-Abdjhals-Ghelsba and Abdhaljs Isle-Purgonorgo the possibilities are unbounded.

So, let's try this again, without the use of perfect~
When did ballista -stop- being popular?
Was it never popular?
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

Thanks in advance for answering!

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Originally Posted by Arcon

"Players" makes it sound like a lot of people actually do that. But they don't. Only some do, a minor fraction. And it's because these "some" people enjoy it, which says nothing about why others don't or about the state of the event as a whole. Some people enjoy Windows Pinball (including me), that doesn't make it better or even "good". It just means that it falls into a favorable part on the spectrum of things I enjoy.

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Ballista is one of the longest lasting events this game has to offer, currently an invisible minority of roughly 300 "Players".
It might be very lucid to forget the ample following this event had with its inception and the countless years people stayed loyal to it's charm.
Did Windows Pinball suddenly stop being enjoyable, did it fall out of the spectrum of things you enjoy?

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Yes. I also like how you've indirectly excluded yourself from the playerbase in this sentence, implying that you're fully aware of how lacking in players this event actually is.

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Finally!
Somebody who can decipher my hawkish posts!

I never said that the event is not lacking in players, I might have hinted at disagreement:

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Originally Posted by Evviva

If there was a lineup of players waiting to get into the diorama, I could see your point.

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Instead, I will mention that over the course of the years, ballista has experienced what I like to call the vinification process.
Many have tried ballista, and all forms associated with it, but few have actually prevailed through the obvious and the not so obvious obstacles.
Nowadays, players have a very indiscreet attitude of "Hmmph. I can't be assed"

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Originally Posted by Arcon

[list][*]No rewards. May sound like a poor reason to you, but it's the core of an RPG: developing your character. That's why people love obtaining new gear and getting new spells. Ballista features absolutely zero such content and as such goes against the very nature of MMORPGs, which is why not many people playing this game are into it.

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Augmenting equipment might not be as interesting as other activities in the game with a tangible reward, but this reward is most certainly readily available.
Even specifically funding your efforts for one certain piece of equipment could be constituted as a reward.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

[*]The game wasn't designed for PvP.

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Agreed, but should we stop playing it entirely and dissolve our efforts?
There are options:

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Originally Posted by Evviva

So, let's get real for a moment. Players have a choice.
1.) Wait for the dev team to take notice of the numerous threads created and do something about ballista.
2.) Promote ballista on your home server, and hope that it catches on.
3.) Level an alternate character and join a server that still plays.
4.) Server transfer to an aforementioned server.
5.) Log on to the test server, Undine.
6.) Keep swarming the forums with ideas on how ballista should be changed, while consequently arguing with everyone who might have a different opinion.
7.) Do nothing.

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My apologies for the crude wording of #6.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

[*]People don't wanna change their playstyle entirely for one event. Disabling gear swaps makes every aspect of their usual playstyle (gear for the moment) completely invalid. However, it does not change the requirement for different aspects, only the ability of the players to maximize each one, which is a kick in the nuts. Add to that that they'd have to change all their macros just for it and that alone makes it not worth it for a majority of people.

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Ah, I see.. the deterrent is equipment changing, macro rebuilding and the overall adaptation to a not so worthwhile event, okay, got it.
I think this comes down to acceptance. As it is, and has been, ballista and brenner are our only sources of pvp, so it's a matter of accepting these flaws and moving on. This deterrent is entirely too great for a large percentage, and that is okay. Frankly speaking, you either play -or- you don't and wait for an update.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

What exactly is your point? I seem to have lost that somewhere along the way. Or you have, I don't know yet which it is. Are you trying to convince us that Ballista is good, even though we have our opinion and you can't argue opinions?

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Thank you, I don't believe I have quite localized my point as evidently as I should have.

Ballista is very old, players have come and gone. With it's many imperfections, I personally feel that it is not too late to congregate all remaining ballistars on a favourable server: read Undine.

Thanks for reading.

Your statement was met with opposition because your statement was heinously invalid. Ballista is not perfect.

You're attempting to play the victim here by acting like Helm and I are bullying you for liking Ballista, in reality, We just disagree with the assertion Ballista is perfect. I personally disagree with your apparently bewilderment to the idea people don't think Ballista is perfect/"Popular".

But i see you are now saying this:

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So, let's try this again, without the use of perfect~
When did ballista -stop- being popular?
Was it never popular?
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

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So i'll answer that for you. Ballista was popular way back when, well, more popular than it is now, even had a Ballista Royale. It stopped being popular when people realized it had no rewards or reasons to do it other than bragging rights, and that it was a half-had attempt at PVP that had major balance flaws and favored certain jobs heavily.

Just because you know a close-knit cliche of people who enjoy Ballista, Does not equal popular event. Popular would mean that its actually liked and enjoyed daily by a good majority of players, where as Ballista is a wasteland on most every server, no matter the time. Walk of Echoes has some good money items and people farm it now and again, but its not popular.

Ballista in itself is a functioning event, Its just very little planning appears to have gone into it, and the fact FFXI Was a designed PVE Game really shows in Ballista. Strategy involves running around in circles, and it removes key aspects of the game (Gear swapping).

So again i state, Enjoy your Ballista to its full extent, but open your eyes and realizes its very far from Popular or perfect. It caters to a very small niche amount of people. Every player has likely Ballista'd once or twice, But only that small niche of player regularly does it. Its great for those with competitive spirit, but If there was a Top 10 of PVP Events amongst MMO's/Games, FFXI Wouldn't make it, It probably wouldn't make the top 100.

What it really boils down too is Ballista is a poorly executed event with no rewards, thats why its never going to be popular, unless its changed.

I get what you're saying, Hell, I see where you're coming from, its just Ballista is really a failed event. People play Ballista probably slightly more than people do MMM, or Chocobo Races, The event has its group/following of devoted players, but as a community whole, the event is dead to most people.

Its not to say you can't have fun with it, Its just to say I feel the OP Has a valid point in asking for an update.

I just want to camp the maws, FC's, gimp pt's, and outskirts of towns to pwn sum n00bz.