Real PvP can we have it PLEASE S.E

[Alhanelem]

Was it never perfect? Yes. It was never perfect. Nothing is ever perfect.
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista? I don't know anyone who does this.

What do players want exactly?

commonly wished-for things;

1) Removal of blinking from the entire game thus removing the need for the gear-swap penalty. Many players do not like not being able to maximize their potential in PvP.
2)Rewards. Some people want a reason to do ballista versus doing anything else in the game that they might also find fun. Most people get the "rush" you speak of when the reward center in their brain is triggered by a chemical reaction in their body. in most cases, this is typically gained by recieving something and the brain interpreting it as a benefit.
3) more control accomodations: Some existing things could be revised, like instead of having a text command and taking up a macro slot to use /targetopp, simply having the F8 key do the same thing
4)Polished balance at all levels of play. The balance isn't bad when you factor in team play, but it isn't flawless (nor is it in any game in existence0
5)Easier to access. Make the ballista license quest completely optional, and perhaps add an extra perk to it in exchange. having to complete some of the missions and do a boring, run-all-over-the-world quest just to participate hinders people getting into it. i've asked a number of people to join me, then I explain to them they need to do a quest for the official matches. They go off and start to do it, and then I never hear from them again. Also, simplify the sign-up process. Just like almost everything else in this game, it's needlessly complicated. Another great thing would be to sign up from the pursuviants and be teleported to the match automatically if it happens. No more teleporting to a match only to have it not happen.

6)Drastically reduce weakness in PvP and/or raise cast time: This one's not really required but just a thought I had. The tactical choice and advantage of being able to keep Petras if you are raised is marred by 2 things. One, until you've died several times, it's actually hard to raise someone before your timer ends. Two, weakness is a death sentence. No point in raising someone to save their petras when they're almost certain to just die again and it leaves the raiser in a vulnerable position for a long time.
7) Make ballista and brenner reservations good for a period of time from application, instead of for set start and end times. Even better, make the Dioramas always accessible for play publicly at all times, and make reservations only for private matches. This will also make things a bit more inviting, and reduce competition for time slots. During the last hours my ballista event (pictures above), a JP group took over the Diorama just before i could and would not the 10 or so people I worked hard to gather join them.

8) Not ever going to happen, but my biggest dream: Cross server official mode battlegrounds. Quite simply, eliminating the barriers between all the players who want to do ballista. The test server does help in this regard, but it's not a very convenient option. Nobody should have to switch servers and abandon friends just to enjoy one piece of the game that isn't popular on their server.
9) Revamp the schedule. Eliminate 30/40/50 caps: even when a lot of people were participating in ballista on our server when it was in test stages, nobody did the low level caps- 60 and uncapped were the only ones that ever happened. eliminate the 1 hour gap between matches, and in fact have matches active in all three areas at the same time, so players can choose the mode they prefer. "Hmm, tonight might be a good night for ballista... next match; 30 cap best of three. nope, maybe not.'


Just because you personally love it the way it is doesn't mean that it can't be improved.

I honestly think your overbearing nature may turn more people off than on. Lighten up and be a little more open minded. What seems strange to -you- may not be strange to many others.

If I could do ballista regularly, without paying whatever it costs for a server transfer and thus without severing ties to lots of people I may know, that would keep me playing this game a lot longer.

[Evviva]

I'm not going to comment on the suggestions you posted, good luck.
This is not a sarcastic statement, all of my posts are written without any notion of sarcasm in mind.

Since you don't care enough to read my posts thoroughly and quote my post(s) correctly, I shall extend the same courtesy.


But, to note:

I honestly think your overbearing nature may turn more people off than on. Lighten up and be a little more open minded.

A quick search provided me with...

At any rate, I prefer uncapped ballista, as I hate level caps in general

I also don't like having to dig through my storage to retrieve AF and low level gear.

...there are many more quotes I can delve into, but I will stop. After all my overbearing nature may turn more people off than on... and....oh I should try to be more open minded?

60cap and uncap official matches.
60cap and uncap Hako(Diorama mirror matches).
1v1 bouts.

Everything is possible~

A quick excerpt from one of my posts, in an attempt to promote ballista on Undine, the test server.

I'm not holding back anymore.

This thread is called: Real PvP can we have it PLEASE S.E.
How ironic~
A very small percentage of the EU and NA player-base has actually experienced real ballista.
Let alone know what it is.

I unlike many others showcased on this forum, don't have the luxury to ponder of special updates for ballista, as I am -still- after a multitude of years playing trying to perfect my game.(Yes, perfect my game!)

Don't believe me? Visit this blog: http://vyiv.wordpress.com/ and read just one strategy outlined.

I tried to keep this as short as possible, since I'm expecting a written ostentation of no, but...

[Ritsuka]

well if they did then all the noobs would get f#$# up by the old school players that know how to play this game ^_~
PVP is ok but you get docked a point for gear swiping which kinda sucks

[Karbuncle]

When did ballista -stop- being perfect?
Was it never perfect?
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

I'll drop a hint on you. Just because maybe 5% of a Population plays Ballista, does not mean the Event is perfect. Think with me here, People play FFXIV, no one would argue its perfect. People do Chocobo Racing, No ones saying thats perfect. Just because you can enjoy event, does not mean its PERFECT.

Can. you. Follow. This. Logic?

Your logic is mixed up. You think, "well, I enjoy Ballista, and some people on my server likely totally less than 2% of the Servers population do as well... So its a perfect Event." When in reality, If it was a perfect event, You'd likely never get to play it because theres a limit on how many people can participate in Ballista, and if it was a useful event, people would be lining up to do it.

Same could be said for the Reserved zones, If Ballista was popular, You'd likely never get in. In reality, You can only Ballista so often because its so unpopular.

You and your 5-10 Buddies on one server does not constitute a completed, well built, perfect event. It just means you guys are so bored out of your eyeballs you find running in circles around eachother fun. Which I can see happening, Because even i sometimes feel like running in circles swinging a knife at people.

All I can see from numerous posts is that ballista lacks rewards. Is that what players want?
Please help me understand.

What do players want exactly?

I can't speak for other players, But what i want is what every other game already has for PVP, Rewards. a Meaning to actually doing it. If i wanted to do something for no reward over and over I'd continue doing Voidwatch. I understand for you, Being able to fight someone whos probably running in circles around you because thats as "Strategic" as most people get in Ballista is really exciting.

But for most players, Its lacking. Half the people in this thread probably really enjoy Ballista, They just wish it was more popular so people would participate and the could stroke their epeen to pwning noobs who are in ballista for the rewards. For a lot of players, its a turn off because it feels like some jobs are extremely favored in Ballista, which is true to some extent. My only peeve with it is i can't switch gear. That is why i hate the event personally.

If i wanted to run around in 1 set of gear pretending it was acceptable I'd make rude posts yelling at everyone for being so rude. In my eyes, Locking gear makes it a terrible event. You can't maximize your job, So it benefits jobs who are basically retard-proof. Jobs like THF are good and F**ked because they are very Macro heavy jobs. Same with RDM. Jobs like that are boned in Ballista because they have to chose 1 Gearset.

I know why its penalized, because Blinking could be abused as a tactic. But it still frustrates me. So basically to sum it up, People want reasons for their actions, they want rewards for their effort. Helplessly beating up some guy over and over is only fun so many times.

And for the record before you prance on about not reading, I read your entire post, But what i had answers for was the first half, and yes, I even watched your Videos. It pretty much matches what i expect out of Ballista. on side destroying the other while people run around in circles.

Got to give the guy credit though, He loves his Ballista, and he looks like a good player, Have nothing against him. Just the event itself sucks.

[Evviva]

What is this?
You did not even answer one question. As per your logic... ballista has always had this magical 5% of the population participating?

You and your 5-10 Buddies on one server does not constitute a completed, well built, perfect event.

Oversight?

If you want uncap official matches: Fenrir
If you want 60 cap official matches: Carbuncle(jp time only) and Lakshmi

Ballista in it's current state is absolutely perfect.
Although, uncap needs a damage adjustment -again-

I've taken it upon myself to promote ballista on Undine - but unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough incentive for people to participate.

And for the record before you prance on about not reading, I read your entire post, But what i had answers for was the first half.

Did you really? That would insinuate that you read my last post and your comprehension of ballista tactics is running in circles around each other?

I appreciate the attempt at being witty, But unfortunately, Your post further outlines my point.

[Arcon]

They did answer your questions, both Karbuncle and Alhanelem. I'll give it a shot, too, maybe you just need to hear it over and over from different people.

When did ballista -stop- being perfect?

It was never perfect.

Was it never perfect?

Yes.

Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

"Players" makes it sound like a lot of people actually do that. But they don't. Only some do, a minor fraction. And it's because these "some" people enjoy it, which says nothing about why others don't or about the state of the event as a whole. Some people enjoy Windows Pinball (including me), that doesn't make it better or even "good". It just means that it falls into a favorable part on the spectrum of things I enjoy.

All I can see from numerous posts is that ballista lacks rewards. Is that what players want?

Yes. I also like how you've indirectly excluded yourself from the playerbase in this sentence, implying that you're fully aware of how lacking in players this event actually is.

What do players want exactly?

Entertainment. Entertainment, however, covers an extremely large range of activities. To you, playing Ballista in its current form is entertaining. That is not the case for most other people, and both Alhanelem and Karbuncle have given you plenty of reasons why. Here's the ones I consider most important:

• No rewards. May sound like a poor reason to you, but it's the core of an RPG: developing your character. That's why people love obtaining new gear and getting new spells. Ballista features absolutely zero such content and as such goes against the very nature of MMORPGs, which is why not many people playing this game are into it.
• Jobs are heavily unbalanced. People like their jobs to be useful in some way, but for Ballista that's usually not the case.
• The game wasn't designed for PvP. That is different from before, because is not about balance, this is simply about the playstyle. The "circling" issue Karbuncle mentioned is quite a relevant one, as it goes against how this game is usually played, which is either steadily facing a mob where targeting is a big issue. That's why it can be abused by running around opponents. That doesn't work on mobs, since the server would automatically autoadjust. And the delay makes that more guesswork than strategy for PvP.
• People don't wanna change their playstyle entirely for one event. Disabling gear swaps makes every aspect of their usual playstyle (gear for the moment) completely invalid. However, it does not change the requirement for different aspects, only the ability of the players to maximize each one, which is a kick in the nuts. Add to that that they'd have to change all their macros just for it and that alone makes it not worth it for a majority of people.
• Organisation and scheduling. It's horrible to try and get a Ballista match started. You just can't go like "hey, let's PvP", you actually have to wait and schedule with the (currently empty) pre-reserved time slots for certain events. And starting a match in itself is an art, one that most people don't have the patience for.

These are a few of the issues most people currently have with Ballista. You, on the other hand, only have one reason for it: "It's fun to me and a few friends". You can praise it as much as you want, but if you don't see or acknowledge these issues that most people have with it then you're just being ignorant. Or you do acknowledge them but don't want to accept them, which makes you arrogant in believing that your opinion is worth more than other peoples'.

I appreciate the attempt at being witty, But unfortunately, Your post further outlines my point.

What exactly is your point? I seem to have lost that somewhere along the way. Or you have, I don't know yet which it is. Are you trying to convince us that Ballista is good, even though we have our opinion and you can't argue opinions?

I also wanna note that personally I like Ballista. And when I say "like" I mean that despite the reasons I listed above, all of which annoy me, it would provide me with enough entertainment for me to actually do it. The only reason why I don't is simply because I can't find any other people who feel this way at all. The last person I knew who enjoyed Ballista quit some time ago.

[Karbuncle]

What is this?
You did not even answer one question. As per your logic... ballista has always had this magical 5% of the population participating?

You aren't good with exaggerated and sarcastic statements are you? Or are just being purposefully thick headed? Those numbers aren't real, they're a intentional low-end number of the situation to drive emphasis on the idea Ballista is unpopular.

Oversight?

Nope, I was implying that your "View" of Ballista is narrowed to your little handful of people community who actually do the event. Even if you had 200 participants regularly, Thats still only about 0.1~0.2% of the Entire population doing Ballista. If you told me you had 2,000 people regularly doing Ballista with you, I'd probably still point out thats still about 1~2% of the current population.

I'm not saying you can't enjoy Ballista, but claiming its perfect is probably one of the more confounding things I've ever heard. So tell me, How many people do you actually have participating regularly in your Ballista? Again, the games population is what, about ~150,000? I really just don't know.

Did you really?

Every. Last. Word. Of that post. I didn't read your other posts, But i read the one i quoted. To the extent i could.

That would insinuate that you read my last post and your comprehension of ballista tactics is running in circles around each other?

actually, The Running around in a circle was more of a joke That i find funny, and thats all that matters, ever. Because thats all people do in Ballista. engage and run around in circles trying to avoid being hit. I mean, Except the RNG Who stood there and took it like a good Galka.

I appreciate the attempt at being witty, But unfortunately, Your post further outlines my point.

If your point is "Ballista sucks and I'm entirely too thickheaded to see why it sucks so hard", I can agree with you on this, If its anything but that, I can't say I'm outlining it. Ballista sucks as is. Its a half-had event with absolutely no effort put into it. Look at PVP in other games to really see how it could be done well. PVP in FFXI was a half-hearted attempt to appeal to the people crying for PVP.

Thats the core of the issue though, FFXI from the beginning was designed completely to be PVE Only. When FFXI was first released, there was no PVP, FFXI's vision was a PVE Game entirely, There was enough demand to add PVP, but SE didn't want PVP, they wanted a world where people co-operate. Or something to that extent, Theres an interview about it from waaaaay back when. However, when PVP Was added, There was no real thought to balance in it. It was just thrown in.

The game was never designed to be PVP, there is no PVP Balance when JA's and JT's are considered, or Weaponskills, etc. The game is designed around PVE, so when PVP is tossed into a core-designed PVE Game, It creates Ballista. Penalties for switching armor because they had to think of a way to stop that from being abused, etc, and why some WS and spells seem to be ungodly powerful in PVP, capable of one-shotting players. Even the battle system is not designed for PVP.

Everything about Ballista is a failed attempt to integrate PVP to an entirely from-the-core PVE Designed game. They did a decent job, but the event lacks any spirit or reason. Its just 'there', and has gotten I believe next to no updates or adjustments since its release.

Its not entirely Ballista's fault either, Its just this game was designed ground-up to be complete PVE, and if you try to integrate PVP into a game designed for PVE, it becomes clunky, and you get crap like Penalties for switching gear, which is a designed aspect of the entire game you're suppose to use to maximize your job.

So no, the event is not perfect, its very very far from perfect. I'm not saying you can't enjoy the event, Its just not perfect.

[Evviva]

They did answer your questions, both Karbuncle and Alhanelem. I'll give it a shot, too, maybe you just need to hear it over and over from different people.

Perfect was immediately recognized as a fallacy, in reality it derived from an opinion that was mentioned here:

If you want uncap official matches: Fenrir
If you want 60 cap official matches: Carbuncle(jp time only) and Lakshmi

Ballista in it's current state is absolutely perfect.
Although, uncap needs a damage adjustment -again-

I've taken it upon myself to promote ballista on Undine - but unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough incentive for people to participate.

An informative post that was completely disregarded and met with scorn entirely for the use of one word.
To elaborate:
Perfect, in this case, is an opinion based on countless hours of research designed to combat an otherwise under researched event. An opening, if you will, for some great information exchange.
"What does this person know that I don't? Their opinion differs greatly from mine."

Instead, in forum fashion I was greeted with anarchy and nescient statements.

Ballista is not perfect, and the fact that you can't simply do it whenever you want and regardless of your server should be a good indicator of that. I love Ballista, but it has barriers to entry that SE needs to resolve before any rank-and-file player will take any interest in it.

How often do you really want to play? Excluding 30, 40 and 50 cap - a typical vana day will include 3 60 cap matches and 3 99 cap official matches. Diorama-Abdjhals-Ghelsba and Abdhaljs Isle-Purgonorgo are available for reservation every 2 real time hours..(really though, reservation is available at any time) the later of the two nullifies the need for a ballista license.
That means 9.6 hours of any given day, official matches are available. Not enough? Between the two venues of Diorama-Abdjhals-Ghelsba and Abdhaljs Isle-Purgonorgo the possibilities are unbounded.

So, let's try this again, without the use of perfect~
When did ballista -stop- being popular?
Was it never popular?
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

Thanks in advance for answering!

"Players" makes it sound like a lot of people actually do that. But they don't. Only some do, a minor fraction. And it's because these "some" people enjoy it, which says nothing about why others don't or about the state of the event as a whole. Some people enjoy Windows Pinball (including me), that doesn't make it better or even "good". It just means that it falls into a favorable part on the spectrum of things I enjoy.

Ballista is one of the longest lasting events this game has to offer, currently an invisible minority of roughly 300 "Players".
It might be very lucid to forget the ample following this event had with its inception and the countless years people stayed loyal to it's charm.
Did Windows Pinball suddenly stop being enjoyable, did it fall out of the spectrum of things you enjoy?

Yes. I also like how you've indirectly excluded yourself from the playerbase in this sentence, implying that you're fully aware of how lacking in players this event actually is.

Finally!
Somebody who can decipher my hawkish posts!

I never said that the event is not lacking in players, I might have hinted at disagreement:

If there was a lineup of players waiting to get into the diorama, I could see your point.

Instead, I will mention that over the course of the years, ballista has experienced what I like to call the vinification process.
Many have tried ballista, and all forms associated with it, but few have actually prevailed through the obvious and the not so obvious obstacles.
Nowadays, players have a very indiscreet attitude of "Hmmph. I can't be assed"

[list][*]No rewards. May sound like a poor reason to you, but it's the core of an RPG: developing your character. That's why people love obtaining new gear and getting new spells. Ballista features absolutely zero such content and as such goes against the very nature of MMORPGs, which is why not many people playing this game are into it.

Augmenting equipment might not be as interesting as other activities in the game with a tangible reward, but this reward is most certainly readily available.
Even specifically funding your efforts for one certain piece of equipment could be constituted as a reward.

[*]The game wasn't designed for PvP.

Agreed, but should we stop playing it entirely and dissolve our efforts?
There are options:

So, let's get real for a moment. Players have a choice.
1.) Wait for the dev team to take notice of the numerous threads created and do something about ballista.
2.) Promote ballista on your home server, and hope that it catches on.
3.) Level an alternate character and join a server that still plays.
4.) Server transfer to an aforementioned server.
5.) Log on to the test server, Undine.
6.) Keep swarming the forums with ideas on how ballista should be changed, while consequently arguing with everyone who might have a different opinion.
7.) Do nothing.

My apologies for the crude wording of #6.

[*]People don't wanna change their playstyle entirely for one event. Disabling gear swaps makes every aspect of their usual playstyle (gear for the moment) completely invalid. However, it does not change the requirement for different aspects, only the ability of the players to maximize each one, which is a kick in the nuts. Add to that that they'd have to change all their macros just for it and that alone makes it not worth it for a majority of people.

Ah, I see.. the deterrent is equipment changing, macro rebuilding and the overall adaptation to a not so worthwhile event, okay, got it.
I think this comes down to acceptance. As it is, and has been, ballista and brenner are our only sources of pvp, so it's a matter of accepting these flaws and moving on. This deterrent is entirely too great for a large percentage, and that is okay. Frankly speaking, you either play -or- you don't and wait for an update.

What exactly is your point? I seem to have lost that somewhere along the way. Or you have, I don't know yet which it is. Are you trying to convince us that Ballista is good, even though we have our opinion and you can't argue opinions?

Thank you, I don't believe I have quite localized my point as evidently as I should have.

Ballista is very old, players have come and gone. With it's many imperfections, I personally feel that it is not too late to congregate all remaining ballistars on a favourable server: read Undine.

Thanks for reading.

[Karbuncle]

Your statement was met with opposition because your statement was heinously invalid. Ballista is not perfect.

You're attempting to play the victim here by acting like Helm and I are bullying you for liking Ballista, in reality, We just disagree with the assertion Ballista is perfect. I personally disagree with your apparently bewilderment to the idea people don't think Ballista is perfect/"Popular".

But i see you are now saying this:

So, let's try this again, without the use of perfect~
When did ballista -stop- being popular?
Was it never popular?
Why do players still devote a blunt of their time to -playing- ballista?

So i'll answer that for you. Ballista was popular way back when, well, more popular than it is now, even had a Ballista Royale. It stopped being popular when people realized it had no rewards or reasons to do it other than bragging rights, and that it was a half-had attempt at PVP that had major balance flaws and favored certain jobs heavily.

Just because you know a close-knit cliche of people who enjoy Ballista, Does not equal popular event. Popular would mean that its actually liked and enjoyed daily by a good majority of players, where as Ballista is a wasteland on most every server, no matter the time. Walk of Echoes has some good money items and people farm it now and again, but its not popular.

Ballista in itself is a functioning event, Its just very little planning appears to have gone into it, and the fact FFXI Was a designed PVE Game really shows in Ballista. Strategy involves running around in circles, and it removes key aspects of the game (Gear swapping).

So again i state, Enjoy your Ballista to its full extent, but open your eyes and realizes its very far from Popular or perfect. It caters to a very small niche amount of people. Every player has likely Ballista'd once or twice, But only that small niche of player regularly does it. Its great for those with competitive spirit, but If there was a Top 10 of PVP Events amongst MMO's/Games, FFXI Wouldn't make it, It probably wouldn't make the top 100.

What it really boils down too is Ballista is a poorly executed event with no rewards, thats why its never going to be popular, unless its changed.

I get what you're saying, Hell, I see where you're coming from, its just Ballista is really a failed event. People play Ballista probably slightly more than people do MMM, or Chocobo Races, The event has its group/following of devoted players, but as a community whole, the event is dead to most people.

Its not to say you can't have fun with it, Its just to say I feel the OP Has a valid point in asking for an update.

[Zerich]

I just want to camp the maws, FC's, gimp pt's, and outskirts of towns to pwn sum n00bz.