Real PvP can we have it PLEASE S.E

[Alhanelem]

Err, my whole point is there ISN'T a lineup of players waiting to get in. If ballista was "perfect," then enough people would be playing it such that official matches would occur on a regular basis, you could shout for and find people for custom matches any time, and you wouldn't have to switch servers just to find players.

Part of the reason nobody does ballista is there's no incentive to. The other part of it is the technical flaws, having to make special macros just for ballista due to the gearswap restriction (which was instituted largely because of a flaw in the game itself that still exists to this day), and the fact that the level of balance varies significantly with the chosen cap. If it was perfect, then level cap wouldn't matter that much for the level of enjoyment and people would play at all caps.

In short, don't call something nobody wants to do "perfect." It has nothing to do with people not liking PvP and everything to do with the flaws in the PvP system.

[Minibuddha]

Idk I am with Evviva. I love ballista and playing on Lakshmi.

Now as far as 1 vs 1 I feel a place in Jeuno/Aht Urghan like a battlefield for ballista anytime would be fun. Allow like 15 different arras to battle in and allow others to watch. It is free to play and for fun.

[Alhanelem]

I love ballista too. It's just not "perfect." It is fallacious to be "with" someone calling it perfect when it's not. Everything in the game can be improved and Ballista is no exception.

It's a simple fact: If it was so "perfect," there would be more people playing it.

Becuase every class is not directly balanced against every other, 1v1 is poor in this game and I don't understand why people want it so much. The PvP system was designed around it being a team game, just like the rest of the game was originally. Ballista is at its best when you're playing with two full teams and you're actually playing the "game" of ballista instead of mindlessly attacking each other. There is much more strategy and tactics in play when it is played the way it was designed.

[Evviva]

Err, my whole point is there ISN'T a lineup of players waiting to get in. If ballista was "perfect," then enough people would be playing it such that official matches would occur on a regular basis, you could shout for and find people for custom matches any time, and you wouldn't have to switch servers just to find players.

I understand your point, but you have to remember ballista is very old... after all it is 2012, and with that being said; ballista did indeed flourish with its inception for consecutive years - think: capped out official matches for level 30, 40, 50, 60 and 75 cap.. we even had people pouring into the diorama for 1v1 duels and random shenanigans.

The game has changed drastically over the years, and every so often ballista would receive minor updates as well - they weren't as glamorous as the rest of the game, nor were they sparkled in front of the player base... but they were absolutely present.

Part of the reason nobody does ballista is there's no incentive to.

I see this very often, and it always seems to be in the form of tangible rewards.

It really is a shame that people's interest is solely propelled by this facet, when on the contrary the pure enjoyment gained out of ballista keeps myself and numerous others coming back after all these years.

The other part of it is the technical flaws, having to make special macros just for ballista due to the gearswap restriction

A good friend of mine spams his equipment change macro when he is near a rook while trying to score with many opponents preventing him from doing so.
...now this is a perfectly acceptable strategy, as it increases his chances of scoring, and doesn't penalize him too much unless he decides to fight back - for me, a simple counter to this is playing on a pc... others not so lucky might not share the same advantage.(ps2, xbox360)

So yes, a "restriction" but a very good one.

And if blinking and equipment changing was allowed... ninjas.. ninjas everywhere.

and the fact that the level of balance varies significantly with the chosen cap. If it was perfect, then level cap wouldn't matter that much for the level of enjoyment and people would play at all caps.

In every single level cap there was a job combination that greatly overpowered others, inducing players to pursuit a clear advantage.
This malicious behavior caused a lot of level caps to simply die out.

In short, don't call something nobody wants to do "perfect." It has nothing to do with people not liking PvP and everything to do with the flaws in the PvP system.

The message that I've been trying to convey is the exhilarating feeling of adrenaline that ballista provides, the unwavering competition of a well played match(or a 1v1 if that's your cup of tea).

But in short, adjusting to the environment and dedicating effort to adapting is a lot more difficult than asking for a fix. I understand~

[Minibuddha]

It is not perfect but I love it the way it is. That is called Stratagy. Yeah sure the rewards are low but its worth it to me. I enjoy my time there playing with everyone, win, lose or draw. See, Players who do come, often do so, to have fun. The newer generation of players as compared to 2004 is very different. The few of us still here from then. To those who joined in like 2008, ballista was shown as nothing but a waste of time. To those who appriciate the whole game, like us, ballista is an event of fun, and teamwork. Such as we teamwork to make Abyssea happen, to make walk of echos happen, campaign, missions, quests, we all do teamwork. Ballista is just against real people instead of monsters, means more stratagy. Its not perfect. Something does not need to be perfect to enjoy it. Each race has its own specific weaknesses and strengths. Balancing it would require that a taru and elvaan can hit for the same damage. also that magic can be cast the same with all races for same damage. I feel let a taru have weaker STR and a galka have more HP. There are ways around everything. It just takes thinking. It can be done.

[Alhanelem]

I see this very often, and it always seems to be in the form of tangible rewards.

It really is a shame that people's interest is solely propelled by this facet, when on the contrary the pure enjoyment gained out of ballista keeps myself and numerous others coming back after all these years.

It's a simple fact that reward drives gameplay in an MMO. In some ways it is sad and I agree, but it applies to everything we do in the game. Why do you think Walk of Echoes is unpopular (even though I find it a fun and interesting event)? Because the rewards are disproportionate to the effort.

Would WoW's PvP be as popular as it is if there were no rewards for doing it (even thought the rewards are mainly useful for PvP and not for anything else)? I really don't think so.

If I could have something, even if it was just a useless trinket that let people know that I played ballista and I was good at it, I would take it. The titles/chevrons aren't good enough because you can't even keep them indefinitely. I'm not really asking for much here. There were a few special hats made for PvP, but they only exist on a handful of characters that probably aren't even playing the game anymore because it was a one-time live event they were awarded at, making them among the rarest items in the game. But if you ever actually saw one of them, you'd know that guy has been places.

At the very least, the already-existing reward (EXP) could at least be brought in line with the time taken to recieve it or at least adjusted to account for the fact that EXP awarded for almost everything else in the game has been increased dramatically.

[Evviva]

I completely comprehend your point of view... but to be perfectly honest. I cannot relate.

Ballista in itself is a reward, a treat - a welcome change from the monotony of FFXI.

It truly is a shame that more players can't open their eyes beyond the tangible rewards.

[Alhanelem]

I completely comprehend your point of view... but to be perfectly honest. I cannot relate.

Ballista in itself is a reward, a treat - a welcome change from the monotony of FFXI.

It truly is a shame that more players can't open their eyes beyond the tangible rewards.

Unforunately, the vast majority of people on this earth are not so pure as to enjoy something that has no reward. tangible rewards, even if they aren't functional, can be attractive. The fact is, if there was more incentive, the event would get more exposure, and people would discover "OK, the reward is cool, but hey, this is actually FUN!" People would be more keen to discover it and then participate more in PvP regardless of any future reward.

(I don't want to see rewards because I want them personally, I want to see them because it would mean I get to play ballista more)

TL;DR: You really just need something to hook people in. Once you have them, as long as they're having fun, it doesn't matter what comes after that.

[Evviva]

I agree with everything you have said, kudos~

My only wish is for people to step one foot into ballista... maybe then they might realize how incredibly deep and rewarding it can be!

[Alhanelem]

Ahh, I remember my previous (and only slightly successful) attempts to promote PvP. I even used Player Event Support to try to garner a bit of attention. Anyone who walked by tillecoe was greeted by this guy telling them to play ballista... or else.


I also had this stuff in PJ: