To: Mr Akihiko Matsui

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Originally Posted by scaevola

Sure it does.

Some people, MANY people in fact, find a random-number-based reward structure viscerally exciting. Many smart people have spent their entire professional lives arguing about why this is the case and we might even have an answer, but the slot machines of Las Vegas keep taking your quarters no matter how much you realize the odds are stacked against you.

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We had abysmal drop rates before the advent of RNG-madness. There's a skinner-box in both, but why do we now have a system that rewards 100% effort the same as a relative naught? In my opinion, the 'hardcore' is being forced to a casual's approach to gaming. If this is true, where MMO's are concerned, (as they are known for consuming inordinate amounts of time), what's the real purpose?

You think that because you are totally unaware of/resistant to the fact that the ENTIRE process you're pining for, start to finish, has moved to level 99.

You're like a six-year-old answering every question with "but whyyyyyyyy?"

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Originally Posted by scaevola

You're like a six-year-old answering every question with "but whyyyyyyyy?"

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And you're like the big person whose only response is "Because I said so." Blocked. Bye now.

I really don't get blocking somebody because they disagree with you. I'm not heckling you. You're responding. We're having a tete-a-tete.

The only person I've ever blocked on these forums was Kingfury, because of his porny sig.

Oh man, I remember when I thought it was really cool when I announced publically that I would put people on my ignore list.
Ah, those glorious teenage years.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Oh man, I remember when I thought it was really cool when I announced publically that I would put people on my ignore list.
Ah, those glorious teenage years.

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The point is to stop them from bothering to reply to anything else I post, as I won't read it. It's a necessary pro-active measure to keep them from wasting their time and mine. It has nothing to do with feeling 'cool'.

Congratulations, yet again, on bumping this thread back up to the top with your choice commentary.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Abyssea, Book & Repeating Book Pages:

- Fosters potential for abuse. (Ability to progress without playing, IE cheating)
- Diminishes value/need for mid-game gears. (Those who still play classic will need)
- Rewards the player with higher EXP/hr. for spamming EP-- mobs. (Diminished need for challenge/engaging battles)
- Player who 'burns' a job from 1-XX loses skill points that would otherwise be gained. (Creating a new and unnecessary need for manually raising these skills; Reference "increased rate of skill-point gain" to supplement this fact.)
- Supplants a general perspective that endgame content is the whole of the content the game intends to provide.
- Caters an equal reward system to all, regardless of time or effort put into a goal.

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- Smn burns (caused by level sync) do the same thing. Three or four good players could get a decent xp rate on T-VT, even before abyssea and GoV, which allows leechers. Your solution does not prevent this. "/pcmd kick name" will remove afkers from any of your parties.

- Smn burns do the same thing, as do level sync parties. Your solution does not prevent this.

- FoV and GoV were designed to supplement solo and lowman XP. This was implemented to assist jobs that were excluded from the old 6-man party system who had to solo or they would get little to no xp. To ask to revoke this is to say that non-favored jobs deserved to have slower rates of xp than favored jobs.

- Smn burns do the same thing, as do level sync parties. At high levels, skillups came so slowly that even with the old xp system, skillup parties were still needed. Every job is able to use a variety of different weapons, which are not skilled in an xp party and must still be skilled outside of xp. Furthermore, if a skill is levelled from a previous job, the skill is retained when you switch jobs, and does not need to be relevelled. See: skillup parties in Kuftal, the boyahda tree, and various coffer key locations (multitasking!). Your solution does not prevent this, and has an incorrect attribution to the cause of the problem.

- SE explcitly stated that they were shifting focus to endgame content, rather than rehashing the old low / mid level content that most players had already completed and moved on from. Furthermore, they removed the level cap on nation and CoP missions to allow the playerbase to use their predominantly lv 75 main jobs to experience the content, rather than be forced to slog through them with artificially increased difficulty. Your solution runs counter to SE's expressed direction for the game.

- The old xp system catered to rewarding a few jobs, regardless of time or effort that other jobs expended. A rdm or brd who was absolutely atrocious at his job, and went to each party in lv 1 gear could level 100 times faster than a drg or smn who had perfect gear and knew every aspect of the game inside and out. See the term Princess (brd, rdm, whm). Furthermore, players who did not carry their weight in a party were still rewarded with the same amount of xp as the rest of the party. Your solution fails to reward based on effort.

Removing abyssea, FoV, and GoV fails to provide solutions on all counts.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

The point is to stop them from bothering to reply to anything else I post, as I won't read it. It's a necessary pro-active measure to keep them from wasting their time and mine. It has nothing to do with feeling 'cool'.

Congratulations, yet again, on bumping this thread back up to the top with your choice commentary.

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^
thinks i was responding for his benefit

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

The point is to stop them from bothering to reply to anything else I post, as I won't read it. It's a necessary pro-active measure to keep them from wasting their time and mine. It has nothing to do with feeling 'cool'.

Congratulations, yet again, on bumping this thread back up to the top with your choice commentary.

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You seem to think that I have something against this thread being at the top :p.

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Originally Posted by Khiinroye

- Smn burns (caused by level sync) do the same thing. Three or four good players could get a decent xp rate on T-VT, even before abyssea and GoV, which allows leechers. Your solution does not prevent this. "/pcmd kick name" will remove afkers from any of your parties.

- Smn burns do the same thing, as do level sync parties. Your solution does not prevent this.

- FoV and GoV were designed to supplement solo and lowman XP. This was implemented to assist jobs that were excluded from the old 6-man party system who had to solo or they would get little to no xp. To ask to revoke this is to say that non-favored jobs deserved to have slower rates of xp than favored jobs.

- Smn burns do the same thing, as do level sync parties. At high levels, skillups came so slowly that even with the old xp system, skillup parties were still needed. Every job is able to use a variety of different weapons, which are not skilled in an xp party and must still be skilled outside of xp. Furthermore, if a skill is levelled from a previous job, the skill is retained when you switch jobs, and does not need to be relevelled. See: skillup parties in Kuftal, the boyahda tree, and various coffer key locations (multitasking!). Your solution does not prevent this, and has an incorrect attribution to the cause of the problem.

- SE explcitly stated that they were shifting focus to endgame content, rather than rehashing the old low / mid level content that most players had already completed and moved on from. Furthermore, they removed the level cap on nation and CoP missions to allow the playerbase to use their predominantly lv 75 main jobs to experience the content, rather than be forced to slog through them with artificially increased difficulty. Your solution runs counter to SE's expressed direction for the game.

- The old xp system catered to rewarding a few jobs, regardless of time or effort that other jobs expended. A rdm or brd who was absolutely atrocious at his job, and went to each party in lv 1 gear could level 100 times faster than a drg or smn who had perfect gear and knew every aspect of the game inside and out. See the term Princess (brd, rdm, whm). Furthermore, players who did not carry their weight in a party were still rewarded with the same amount of xp as the rest of the party. Your solution fails to reward based on effort.

Removing abyssea, FoV, and GoV fails to provide solutions on all counts.

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- Do you agree that cheating should be allowed to persist?

- Do you agree that mid-game doesn't matter in the way that it doesn't matter now?

- I can't deny that you still needed skill-ups after hitting cap at 75 previously. However, it doesn't speak to the degree of skilling-up that would be required when attaining numerous levels (if not all) when participating little-to-none otherwise.

- "Focusing on endgame content" should in no way mean "negate much of the rest of the game that already existed".

- This is true in some respects. I agree that a RDM or BRD could and would get invites without having the party flags up, where a THF or BST could go their entire career without having that happen (with their flags up). Simply because you had the luxury of people fighting over your presence on one job doesn't mean you should expect that to happen on others. And I'll go with my usual defense of, "If you wanted it, you should take the responsibility for going out to get it".

1. What cheating
2. Midgame never mattered
4. Eco-warrior, diorama, expeditionary force... there's a reason none of these are done
5. Why haven't you applied this to yourself instead of complaining so much

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Originally Posted by Neisan_Quetz

1. What cheating
2. Midgame never mattered
4. Eco-warrior, diorama, expeditionary force... there's a reason none of these are done
5. Why haven't you applied this to yourself instead of complaining so much

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Your contributions have been even less valuable than those fueled by pure flames. Blocked.

I'll field a few.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

- Do you agree that cheating should be allowed to persist?

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In as far as the cheating we're currently discussing goes: The game maker has acknowledged the "leech" method of leveling as an intended mechanic of the game.

I actually like it. When I shout for PUG now, there is a relatively high chance that everyone will have the jobs we need to get it done. How they got there is none of my concern.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

- Do you agree that mid-game doesn't matter in the way that it doesn't matter now?

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I feel like the only reason for it to exist was that the level cap used to be "Mid Level", so they made content for that. That is no longer the case, so it is no longer needed.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

- I can't deny that you still needed skill-ups after hitting cap at 75 previously. However, it doesn't speak to the degree of skilling-up that would be required when attaining numerous levels (if not all) when participating little-to-none otherwise.

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Regardless, it still takes less time to level a job and cap skills now, than it did to just level the job back then.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

- "Focusing on endgame content" should in no way mean "negate much of the rest of the game that already existed".

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It should. That's what end game means.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

- This is true in some respects. I agree that a RDM or BRD could and would get invites without having the party flags up, where a THF or BST could go their entire career without having that happen (with their flags up). Simply because you had the luxury of people fighting over your presence on one job doesn't mean you should expect that to happen on others. And I'll go with my usual defense of, "If you wanted it, you should take the responsibility for going out to get it".

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This is exactly the response that you have ignored countless times when told that old school leveling still exists.

I never did eco warrior, diorama, expeditionary force or garrison during any of the years i played pre-abyssea. So I can't say I felt much of a change in that department. The only parts of the game that made mid-game people feel like they mattered was level capped CoP missions, imo.

But at this time in the game's life, I wouldn't really want CoP level caps back.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I never did eco warrior, diorama, expeditionary force or garrison during any of the years i played pre-abyssea. So I can't say I felt much of a change in that department. The only parts of the game that made mid-game people feel like they mattered was level capped CoP missions, imo.

But at this time in the game's life, I wouldn't really want CoP level caps back.

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But why not? Haven't you and the rest of Vanadiel finished them?

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Abyssea, Book & Repeating Book Pages:

- Fosters potential for abuse. (Ability to progress without playing, IE cheating)
- Diminishes value/need for mid-game gears. (Those who still play classic will need)
- Rewards the player with higher EXP/hr. for spamming EP-- mobs. (Diminished need for challenge/engaging battles)
- Player who 'burns' a job from 1-XX loses skill points that would otherwise be gained. (Creating a new and unnecessary need for manually raising these skills; Reference "increased rate of skill-point gain" to supplement this fact.)
- Supplants a general perspective that endgame content is the whole of the content the game intends to provide.
- Caters an equal reward system to all, regardless of time or effort put into a goal.

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Thanks.

1. Potential abuse. This is true. However, it happened sometimes in regular parties as well. Not as frequently because a terrible player/afker could be spotted by a slower exp rate, and thus kicked, but it still happened.

2. Mid-game gears. Very true that this is obsolete. Unfortunately it had started to diminish before Abyssea's introduction because many people had finished leveling their desired jobs to 75 and were no longer interested in leveling more. When I wanted to level my Paladin (solo by the way), I was disappointed to see the level 30 CoP introduced gear was not on the auction house. For days. As a result I crafted my smithing up and started making my own pieces of gear. Thankfully anyone can level smithing up to 60 without any consequences on their other crafts if that gear set is desired. It's slow and unfortunate, but possible to do on one's own.

3. Higher EXP on Easy Prey monsters. Actually, I believe Square Enix stated at some point they had never expected players to engage incredibly tough monsters in parties of six, but rather smaller parties on even matches, toughs, and very toughs instead (Note: I don't have a link for verification). Even before the EXP addition these monster choices resulted in faster EXP, but players chose to engage the hardest they could.

I wouldn't say they were a challenge... they were just slow and irritating.It was almost always crabs we engaged in. And if it wasn't crabs, it was most likely crawlers. It wasn't until the addition of Chains of Promathia we broke the monotony with dhalmels in Bibiki Bay... and that was only for higher levels. With Treasure of Aht Urgan we experienced a spike in EXP/hr, squishier monsters (colibri and imps), and the highest EXP chains ever (remember EXP chain #307?).

So really, the fall of engaging in difficult monsters began in Chains of Promathia with Treasure of Aht Urgan really kicking it up to gear and Abyssea excelling it exponentially.

The addition to making EXP double outside of Abyssea was nice. I think Square Enix was going to add it regardless of Abyssea. But maybe not. Regardless, just like all things in life, we humans will choose the least resisted path to our destination. Killing smaller monsters quicker for equally strong EXP is going to be chosen over harder monsters by the majority of people. The only times the reverse is true is when someone is needing something specifically from a harder monster or when someone is bored and looking for a challenge.

4. Skill loss. True, but this was already an issue way before Abyssea was even thought of by Square Enix. Skill up parties have been around since I've been playing the game (back in 2003). And this was necessary for everyone; DD leveling up their main or a second choice weapon, tanks leveling up their parry/guard/shield/evasion, mages leveling up their weapons and magic skills, etc. Skill ups have always been a burden on the player base. Now, yes, they are an even bigger burden to us, but really skill ups are easy enough to get in a few days that partying to 99 and then capping is efficient.

Also, way before Abyssea came Level Sync. The benefit of Level Sync was finally having enough of each class to select from but the burden was poor skill ups. Well, and midlevel gear had difficulties staying afloat as well -- people just went from Qufim to merit parties.

5. Strong focus on end game content. Hm, I recall people always being obsessed with end game. I never liked it because it was unpleasant for me so I chose to solo a lot and level up several jobs. But usually the whole point of leveling a job was being able to attend events and be useful for the linkshell.

There was a lot of end game back at 75, such as Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Limbus, Assaults/Nyzul, Salvage, Einherjar, HNM kings, etc. There was so much to do every day that many linkshells had their members running from event to event from the time they logged on to the time they logged off. These members didn't have much time to level up new jobs either.

The only midgame content I can think of would be CoP missions (which have had their caps lifted), some BCNMs, and leveling. Oh and I guess there was Expeditionary Forces and Garrison. Never was a lot to choose from.

There's really two parts to an MMORPG. Part one is getting a job's level maxed. Part two begins at the end of part one and is using said maxed job to slay monsters for the collection of armors and goods. As of 2012, part one is expodentially sped up, but part two is equally important.

6. Equal rewards. I like equality. At the end of the day I don't really care if someone else got something with less effort as me, because it is just a game and their possession of an item does not affect me. I'm much happier to have an easier chance at obtaining my end goals.

~~

Reasons for why I like Abyssea:

1. Faster EXP. I like being able to get my jobs to 99 quicker. I restarted a character, so leveing the jobs I had at 75 again on my new character quickly makes me happy. I know how to play them from the 75 days so I guess I can't say how easy or difficult it is to learn a job without an oldschool party/solo, but as a person who is releveling it's marvelous. I was able to get my skill ups high relatively quick, and it was nice on my pocketbook not having to buy several different sets of armor or wait to level because I couldn't buy that new piece of equipment I really needed.

The downfall to faster EXP is the lack of anticipation. On one hand I get bored and struggle to not fall asleep while partying in Gusgen Mines and Abyssea, but on the other hand I'm impatient and want my levels instantly. I wouldn't mind some oldschool parties, but I'd like to also keep the possibility of leveling fast should I grow tired of people doing stupid things and slowing me down.

2. Equality. I like how in GoV parties and Abyssea parties all jobs are welcome. That's so beautiful. That's the first time in Vana'diel history that all players were treated as equals. Oldschool parties, like I've said in the past, demanded we have specific jobs to party. And even if different camps asked for different jobs, said jobs couldn't get past the levels with the camps they weren't welcome at.

3. Strong armor. Strong, easy to obtain armor that doesn't require hours upon hours of fighting the random number generator system are beautiful. As someone who avoids tougher end game activities, I liked that I finally had a shot at some of the best gear. I could take a few of my friends and get seals and gems, have fun, and walk away at the end of the day without a headache and with something to show for our time. So beautiful.

4. Diversity. Because it's so easy to level jobs now, many people are willing to level appropriate sub jobs and main jobs for events.

5. Fun. I find Abyssea fun. I like proccing yellow for people. I suppose being a black mage makes that biased because I can proc 5/7 of the spells, but I enjoy the simplicity yet alluring mystery the proc system can have. Abyssite of Discernment has made this easier, but even knowing the element a person doesn't know the exact spell until it goes off. Still have to time it so it's not dirty. If you want challenge, try proccing Ancient Magic on Triturators.

6. Not held back by idiots. There's always been a lot of morons in this game... and they still exist to this day. People who can't follow directions, who can't read instructions, or just straight up derp out and forget how to use a keyboard all exist on this game. In large portions. In oldschool parties, our EXP would suffer from people like this guy. In Abyssea, I can solo fast enough to not care what other people are doing. I can solo a lot more in this game and therefore don't have to rely on unreliable fools.

Plus if they leave prematurely I'm not left to suffer because of it.

7. Camps aren't always full. I always hated when we'd take two hours to gather a party, run out to camp, and find it taken by another party who had managed to get there between our "/sea area" and arrival. Or even worse, when a beastmaster would be there or when I was beastmaster and a party would invade on me. People were frequently jerks who would overcamp on other people and destroy the speed of EXP for everyone. Now Abyssea has lots of camps, people can come and go in parties and there are lots of camps to choose from in each zone.

8. The game's a game again. Since starting the game, the message of "don't forget your friends, family, school or work" was always a joke. But with Abyssea, the game finally became a game again. It was easy to log on, get some friends quickly, farm some seals or get some exp, log off an hour or two later and actually have something to show for the hour of work.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Your contributions have been even less valuable than those fueled by pure flames. Blocked.

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You keep on blocking people who disagree with you as if that makes your arguments that more relevant. But soon, you'll have no one to post to but yourself.

Meyi, thanks for posting such a detailed matter why Abyssea works and did something great to the game. It's great to see someone who appreciate it rather than putting the blame of everything that is wrong with the game to Abyssea :)

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

And what makes this RNG system have widespread appeal, do you think? Also, do you not think this RNG system is an even cheaper way to extend content life than even the old grind?

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The reason it has widespread appeal is it is accessible, so anyone can do it. The problem is with the best gear which is only a sidegrade in many cases, so for those who want the better gear they must do it much more often and it becomes a very big pain.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Your contributions have been even less valuable than those fueled by pure flames. Blocked.

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Why don't you go back baking cookies? Perhaps Miss Brownie here need more "arguments" for her ADD, seems like she-he just cannot face the fact that mid level content has been dead for over 8 years, loooooong gone. Apparently she never get the memo, ToAU pretty much killed it good. Balls-soup, your concern is 6 years late, should have voiced more opinion back then - at the very least SE listened to the player base, killed old school way of doing things, and give us more fun than we can handle at endgame.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Why don't you go back baking cookies? Perhaps Miss Brownie here need more "arguments" for her ADD, seems like she-he just cannot face the fact that mid level content has been dead for over 8 years, loooooong gone. Apparently she never get the memo, ToAU pretty much killed it good. Balls-soup, your concern is 6 years late, should have voiced more opinion back then - at the very least SE listened to the player base, killed old school way of doing things, and give us more fun than we can handle at endgame.

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Luvbunny, nobody's going to want to listen to you when you insult them so harshly. Discuss her opinions voiced, not her herself.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Luvbunny, nobody's going to want to listen to you when you insult them so harshly. Discuss her opinions voiced, not her herself.

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It's cool Meyi, I'm sure all these people talk to everyday people the same way and aren't just being internet badasses.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

It's cool Meyi, I'm sure all these people talk to everyday people the same way and aren't just being internet badasses.

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That goes both ways to be honest. I do generally blurt out curses and insult people in my day to day speech. Over a decade working as a chef has awarded me with a large multi-language vocabulary comprised mostly of food items and vulgarities. If people I knew in real life read what I wrote on this forum, they wouldn't believe it was me . Just asking how may day went might entail several F-bombs in RL, but this is the interwebz and pulling the real life card here is much like saying "My dad can beat up your dad" in a 2nd grade playground brawl. We have no idea how many of these math nerds look like Tupac in RL, and how many of the "chicks" aren't really mithras. Pulling the "your not really hard" thing is sorta lame, all things considered. No one here made any claims to be a bad ass in RL. That's a cheap argument.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

Luvbunny, nobody's going to want to listen to you when you insult them so harshly. Discuss her opinions voiced, not her herself.

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I think everyone already tried to discuss it, politely, but he seems to not listen and keep arguing that mid level content should be revived and old school xp party to be resurrected so that he can experience it all by himself and force other to do it his way. Even as people try to explain that BCNMs are a good alternative to low mid level content and people still do these for ninja scroll. Over 50 pages arguing the same thing, over and over again, with him insulting others right and left who have different opinions and stating their perfectly sane arguments. His main beef is that he wants to experience it, why can't he.... And we all said, yes YOU CAN, you just have to find others like minded people. To which his response always, these people do not exist, the whole system is against me, blah blah blah.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

I think everyone already tried to discuss it, politely, but he seems to not listen and keep arguing that mid level content should be revived and old school xp party to be resurrected so that he can experience it all by himself and force other to do it his way. Even as people try to explain that BCNMs are a good alternative to low mid level content and people still do these for ninja scroll. Over 50 pages arguing the same thing, over and over again, with him insulting others right and left who have different opinions and stating their perfectly sane arguments. His main beef is that he wants to experience it, why can't he.... And we all said, yes YOU CAN, you just have to find others like minded people. To which his response always, these people do not exist, the whole system is against me, blah blah blah.

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To be honest, this whole thread is basically him seeing how long we can "be the better person". It's really remarkable how long this has gone without someone just shouting insults in multi-colored caps on one side or another. It's amusing that the OP conceded like 50 pages ago. :P

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

To be honest, this whole thread is basically him seeing how long we can "be the better person".

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Yeah I am not really sure what he really wants.... The older veterans do not want to go through the leveling grind of yesteryears anymore where you wait for hours for things to get done. The newer players surely do not want to deal with all the hassle of "old school" and would be happily leech to 99. I remember meeting many new players who get frustrated easily around 2010 when GoV has not been introduced yet and most of the veteran enjoying the abyssea express system while they get stuck outside to level their jobs the old ways unless someone is kind enough to let them leech. There is a reason why GoV party is extremely popular and the developers did nothing about afk leechers and even made the book pages auto repeat. 99% of the population wants to do the actual game, which is end game, and have fun ASAP and not waiting for 6 months to reach 99. The game has changed since 2006 with ToAU - but abyssea made it way better as Meiyi outlined on his post. Eyeballs just need to admit defeat and either accept the fact or move on, quit, or find a few players who want to join on his sadistic adventure of old school ways.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Meyi, thanks for posting such a detailed matter why Abyssea works and did something great to the game. It's great to see someone who appreciate it rather than putting the blame of everything that is wrong with the game to Abyssea :)

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Does your Abyssea fanboyism know any boundaries at all? You just commented something completely off-topic (much like this post) just to say how much you liked Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Does your Abyssea fanboyism know any boundaries at all? You just commented something completely off-topic (much like this post) just to say how much you liked Abyssea.

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Uhm I was just commenting on Meiyi's post and how he was able to articulate his points on abyss and how great that is. Please go back spreading abyssea hate, I really need everyone to get out of abyssea zones. Thanks for your support :)

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

That goes both ways to be honest. I do generally blurt out curses and insult people in my day to day speech. Over a decade working as a chef has awarded me with a large multi-language vocabulary comprised mostly of food items and vulgarities. If people I knew in real life read what I wrote on this forum, they wouldn't believe it was me . Just asking how may day went might entail several F-bombs in RL, but this is the interwebz and pulling the real life card here is much like saying "My dad can beat up your dad" in a 2nd grade playground brawl. We have no idea how many of these math nerds look like Tupac in RL, and how many of the "chicks" aren't really mithras. Pulling the "your not really hard" thing is sorta lame, all things considered. No one here made any claims to be a bad ass in RL. That's a cheap argument.

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I'm sorry Frank, but just because you find it dandy to demean/insult others in real life doesn't mean you have the right to advocate it. It only makes you look like "King Internet Badass" because not only do you do it online, but you do it IRL too. Neither of which are commendable characteristics of civilized human behavior.

Like I've said, I could sit back and say, "You bunch of lazy dumbfuck shitass casual cunts are ruining the face of competitive gaming because once upon a time you couldn't find a party and nobody would invite you and omg this takes too long and omg this is so boring why do I play it omg how does anyone like this WAAAAHHHH someone make it stoooopp!!!" ....

But I won't. :)

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

"You bunch of lazy dumbfuck shitass casual cunts are ruining the face of competitive gaming because once upon a time you couldn't find a party and nobody would invite you and omg this takes too long and omg this is so boring why do I play it omg how does anyone like this WAAAAHHHH someone make it stoooopp!!!"
But I won't. :)

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That would be so much more entertaining though O_O;

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Uhm I was just commenting on Meiyi's post and how he was able to articulate his points on abyss and how great that is. Please go back spreading abyssea hate, I really need everyone to get out of abyssea zones. Thanks for your support :)

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I'm not spreading Abyssea hate, I didn't do so for a long time. I've come to see how useless it is to argue with fanboys and I'm ashamed to admit how long it took me to realize that. But don't worry about me, like many players I've already moved on. The only times I ever set foot in it is to help others.

I'm just satisfied to know SE saw what their mistake was and hope they'll learn from it.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I'm sorry Frank, but just because you find it dandy to demean/insult others in real life doesn't mean you have the right to advocate it. It only makes you look like "King Internet Badass" because not only do you do it online, but you do it IRL too.

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Only he didn't do it on here. And that was kinda his point.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

But don't worry about me, like many players I've already moved on. The only times I ever set foot in it is to help others. I'm just satisfied to know SE saw what their mistake was and hope they'll learn from it.

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Awesome, I wish everyone else would move on as well and leave abyssea zones alone and empty, cannot wait for this to happen, SOON please. Meh, I think SE "realized their mistake" then realized that people want easy button, hence displacer is introduced to Voidwatch to make it easier to just brew everything. Abyssea reared its ugly pretty head again and influencing things in the game. Let's see how they plan to revamp with SoA. Turn it back to old school and watch everyone leaves in droves, make it Abyssea version 2.0, and a lot will rejoice :)

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Awesome, I wish everyone else would move on as well and leave abyssea zones alone and empty, cannot wait for this to happen, SOON please.

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What are you talking about, it's already empty. On Leviathan there's 126 people across all Abyssea zones right now. There used to be that much in a single zone about a year and a half ago and sometimes even more. And I'd bet a majority of them are afk leeching EXP, so they shouldn't bother you either. The zones are yours for the taking. Congratulations.

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Originally Posted by Luvbunny

Turn it back to old school and watch everyone leaves in droves, make it Abyssea version 2.0, and a lot will rejoice :)

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Groundless assumption, as that was never the case with Abyssea either. Wishful thinking on your part, because you're biased towards it.

Ok say it more simply. They make everything a grinding annoyance with luck based systems determining everything you get, which will make people mad. They make everything balanced in a reward to effort ratio, which will make most happy. Or they will make things take absurdly high amounts of time, which will again make alot of people mad.

.... this thread is still going lolol
I like how 4-5 people making alot of noise are acting as "the voice of the playerbase"
just make your point and move on.. oh wait whats the fun in that.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

But why not? Haven't you and the rest of Vanadiel finished them?

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I did about half of it with level caps, and half of it without level caps, so yes, I have finished them. I was perhaps at promy vahzl when the caps were lifted.

The reason I don't want them back is that new players would have a really hard time completing them with the current top-heavy game. It would be better if they could do them on their own with perhaps one or two people with them, whenever they were strong enough to do so. Putting only CoP back at level cap will not shift the game significantly towards midgame being relevant again, and would just create frustration.

If you wanted to do that, you would have to turn back time for a lot of the parts of FF11, including the parts that most players think are way better now. It would simply cost SE a lot of subscribers, way more than they would get back from having a "harder" game. Although, nothing is really hard about grinding for hours.

I don't understand the desire to do things on a half leveled job. As a matter of fact, I don't even see that as the middle of the game any more. I see abyssea gear / NMs / dynamis / merit / skillup parties as the middle. The higher end being neonyzul legion etc.

getting your character to 99 doesn't mean it's done and you have nothing left to do on that job. You still need like 1,000,000 merit points, a bunch of gear and a bunch of weapon skills quests.

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Originally Posted by Arcon

What are you talking about, it's already empty. On Leviathan there's 126 people across all Abyssea zones right now. There used to be that much in a single zone about a year and a half ago and sometimes even more. And I'd bet a majority of them are afk leeching EXP, so they shouldn't bother you either. The zones are yours for the taking. Congratulations.

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I wish that was the case in Bahamut, seems like everyone cannot leave the crack that is abyssea. Competition everywhere on every single things, VNMs, camped NMs, even black mandy camp in Altepa. I need a server with dead abyssea zones lol.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

The reason it has widespread appeal is it is accessible, so anyone can do it. The problem is with the best gear which is only a sidegrade in many cases, so for those who want the better gear they must do it much more often and it becomes a very big pain.

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Right, so the system we're moving toward is content that is much more accessible by all players doing the RNG horizontal mambo. Easy to access, low/moderate difficulty and in trade a mind-numbing spamfest.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Right, so the system we're moving toward is content that is much more accessible by all players doing the RNG horizontal mambo. Easy to access, low/moderate difficulty and in trade a mind-numbing spamfest.

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Exactly, when in truth I think it should be accessible by all, somewhat difficult, and always rewarding. I have a point system that people seem to somewhat ignore or at least never respond to all to much, that I think would be great for VW type content. If RNG is screwing you long enough it eventually adds up to giving you the item anyways. Making people go 1/1 while others go 1/300 is stupid in game design, but so is closing off content to half of the players due to their personal time constraints or inability to play a game at certain times. Neither should be acceptable in game design, all content should be available to all players, and everyone should stand an equal chance at acquiring things, while if given enough time you can get whatever you wish, and luck still gets to play its part up to a point.