New 2-hour Abilities

I can honestly say that I'll never use this two hour on BST.

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Originally Posted by Insaniac

If you don't see the zerg benefit to being able to WS every 2 swings I can understand why you get moved out of the DD party. This is a solid 2 hour that not only increases DRKs damage output but carries a decent utility. The duration will probably be increased via merits and it will be even better.

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That's not true, you don't know what SE is going to do with merits or if we will even get 2hr merits, SE make lots of promises that we have yet to see. What about drk being turned into a tp-tank, where the drk uses 2hr and is ordered to "melees only" to babysit the mobs tp while other dd's perform the zerg, like sam uses its 2hr and war uses its 2hr. Drks would be banned from uses any ws's during its 2hr and regulated to tp control. Against mobs like ADL drk wont be allowed to use any wss, out of fear of replenishing his TP, and losing a drain cycle. Linkshells will say drk 2hr "melee only" and if your not allowed to weaponskill than that not a zerg. If SE allows ws's to also tp-drain then linkshells and alliances could not do this.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

That's not true, you don't know what SE is going to do with merits or if we will even get 2hr merits, SE make lots of promises that we have yet to see. What about drk being turned into a tp-tank, where the drk uses 2hr and is ordered to "melees only" to babysit the mobs tp while other dd's perform the zerg, like sam uses its 2hr and war uses its 2hr. Drks would be banned from uses any ws's during its 2hr and regulated to tp control. Against mobs like ADL drk wont be allowed to use any wss, out of fear of replenishing his TP, and losing a drain cycle. Linkshells will say drk 2hr "melee only" and if your not allowed to weaponskill than that not a zerg. If SE allows ws's to also tp-drain then linkshells and alliances could not do this.

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I thought it was pretty clear that you don't drain TP if you're at 300% TP. Did I misread that? No linkshell is going to say "drk melee only" unless the leaders are so inept that they don't realize how the drk throwing out a couple extra resolutions during the duration of the 2hour is going to both keep help kill shit faster. Besides, regain ticks are every 3 seconds, so regain alone won't be able to out pace this 2hour unless it's 100TP/tick, because you're still going to swing again before the next regain tick to shave off whatever the melees gave it after you WS'd. You're splitting hairs and bitching for the sake of bitching, and it's really quite insulting to the rest of us who didn't get one of the 2-3 useful abilities, and quite distracting to the thread as a whole.

incorrect actually Abs-TP still works even at 300 TP. learned from helping ls on multiple Glavoid runs

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Originally Posted by Theytak

I thought it was pretty clear that you don't drain TP if you're at 300% TP. Did I misread that? No linkshell is going to say "drk melee only" unless the leaders are so inept that they don't realize how the drk throwing out a couple extra resolutions during the duration of the 2hour is going to both keep help kill shit faster. Besides, regain ticks are every 3 seconds, so regain alone won't be able to out pace this 2hour unless it's 100TP/tick, because you're still going to swing again before the next regain tick to shave off whatever the melees gave it after you WS'd. You're splitting hairs and bitching for the sake of bitching, and it's really quite insulting to the rest of us who didn't get one of the 2-3 useful abilities, and quite distracting to the thread as a whole.

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Couldn't agree more. People would be stupid to tell a massive DD job to use a massive DD 2-hour, then not WS and cut their DD to shit for the sake of something that doesn't actually help after the 1st 5~10 seconds of the 2-hours duration because the DRK is at 300% TP...

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Originally Posted by Raucent

incorrect actually Abs-TP still works even at 300 TP. learned from helping ls on multiple Glavoid runs

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Thats absorb TP, not this 2-hour, however since I have not tested this on the Test Server, I cant say for sure, but ok, just make that 1 change then, and it will be perfectly fine!

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Originally Posted by Theytak

I thought it was pretty clear that you don't drain TP if you're at 300% TP. Did I misread that? No linkshell is going to say "drk melee only" unless the leaders are so inept that they don't realize how the drk throwing out a couple extra resolutions during the duration of the 2hour is going to both keep help kill shit faster. Besides, regain ticks are every 3 seconds, so regain alone won't be able to out pace this 2hour unless it's 100TP/tick, because you're still going to swing again before the next regain tick to shave off whatever the melees gave it after you WS'd. You're splitting hairs and bitching for the sake of bitching, and it's really quite insulting to the rest of us who didn't get one of the 2-3 useful abilities, and quite distracting to the thread as a whole.

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Wrong! Drk keeps absorbing tp at 300%, once you reach 300% you cannot add more tp to yourself but your drained about stays the same. This also happens with abs-tp spell, drain 1, aspir 1, aspir2, once you hit the maximum capacity cap the drain will show as zero but it still drained and had the desired effect.

Moreover what are you talking about a FEW resolutions? Our 2hrs is only 30 secs, you blink and the buff is over with. You can only do one thing with it, zerg or tp-tank, and which would most linkshells and allainces choose? Almost everyone's 2hr is missed up, but however pup has one of the best new 2hrs. Having 6 new 2hrs added to one job is far better than have a 30 sec auto-attack tp drain.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Thats absorb TP, not this 2-hour, however since I have not tested this on the Test Server, I cant say for sure, but ok, just make that 1 change then, and it will be perfectly fine!

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How do you not know this, especially if you play drk, it works the same with Blood Weapon too, if the dark knight is at its HP cap the drain will say zero but the desired effect is still there. You cannot drain beyond the cap, the only abilty and spell to do it is drain 2.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

How do you not know this, especially if you play drk, it works the same with Blood Weapon too, if the dark knight is at its HP cap the drain will say zero but the desired effect is still there. You cannot drain beyond the cap, the only abilty and spell to do it is drain 2.

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Because I started playing DRK after BW became mostly worthless, as such I never used it really, and still don't, just been an ability in my list that I never use. As I said though, change that factor and tada, fixed. Also depending on how high the TP drain is depends on its use, I again, have not personally tested it so I have no idea. If the TP drain is say, as powerful as Ephemeron's or at least near it, your talking 60~90TP a hit, thats 1 hit to WS so long as the mob/NM has the TP to steal, in a zerg fight, it will. Even at 30TP/hit, thats 2 hits, at 20TP/hit thats about 3 hits. The math was given to you earlier on how many times you can hit...

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Now, consider greatswords and scythes at haste cap: The average floored delay (80% reduction) for greatswords is around 91, while scythes are around 103. That means great swords will swing at a rate of around 1 attack round every 1.55 seconds, while scythes will be around 1.75 seconds. This means over 40 seconds (since the relic+2 2hour buff applies, currently) greatsword will have 25 attack rounds, while scythe will have 22. That's only rounds. That doesn't account for double/triple/quadruple attack, or misses. I'm not going to pretend to have any idea how much DA/TA/QA is on a typical drk zerg set, and just use a rough average of 25% DA since that seems to be fairly close for most jobs that aren't war or thf.

That would give greatsword 31 attacks and scythe 27, both before accuracy. Thus, even with scythe, you're still draining at rate between once every 1-2 seconds. With how potent the TP drain has been shown to be, and how mob AI works, there would need to be a significant amount of melees and/or regain present to negate that TP drain, and thus, essentially, this ability would give drk one of the strongest NM controlling abilities in the game. Why the hell are you complaining about it? You're going to get invited to zergs whether you have it or not. You're a fucking drk.

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So say your using a GS like a good DRK. Thats about 31 attacks, now cut that down because of the WS delay, your still talking about doing between 8~10 Resolutions or so I think, within a 30 second period, how in any way is that bad? Not only that but depending on the amount of TP you do drain, you can still be locking down the mobs TP!

Stop arguing this ability is bad, its good, the only thing they could do with it to make it better is either A:Increase duration, or B:Apply to WSs. However I will tell you now, depending on the WS drain amount, that could never happen if its 20 TP a hit, for instance, look at Resolution! 5 hits possible, hit with all hits, normal WSTP is about 17~20ish depending, then TP drains, thats 20~100, so if you land at least 4 hits you have 100% instantly!

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

it's not our intention to allow for weapon skills to be used continuously without limitations

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Seems this would likely be the case for DRK as well, even if this was in response to something for DNC, so sorry but that doesn't seem likely unless you want them to gimp the TP/hit amount, or at least on WSs. Just leave it how it is, its ok, messing with it will likely cause a nerf of some sort, such as duration, potency, effect, something will happen and it probably wont be good, some people like this, such as myself, and see its good, so please leave it how it is for now and see how it works out, if your ls starts to complain that you are committing the evil crime of WSing on a NM, then so be it to come back and bitch then, till then please just leave it alone and let the thread focus on BST's chowing down on their pets for some Stoneskin or RDM's getting 30 seconds to buff up with buffs that have what? +20% potency?

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Stop arguing this ability is bad, its good, the only thing they could do with it to make it better is either A:Increase duration, or B:Apply to WSs. However I will tell you now, depending on the WS drain amount, that could never happen if its 20 TP a hit, for instance, look at Resolution! 5 hits possible, hit with all hits, normal WSTP is about 17~20ish depending, then TP drains, thats 20~100, so if you land at least 4 hits you have 100% instantly!

Seems this would likely be the case for DRK as well, even if this was in response to something for DNC, so sorry but that doesn't seem likely unless you want them to gimp the TP/hit amount, or at least on WSs. Just leave it how it is, its ok, messing with it will likely cause a nerf of some sort, such as duration, potency, effect, something will happen and it probably wont be good, some people like this, such as myself, and see its good, so please leave it how it is for now and see how it works out, if your ls starts to complain that you are committing the evil crime of WSing on a NM, then so be it to come back and bitch then, till then please just leave it alone and let the thread focus on BST's chowing down on their pets for some Stoneskin or RDM's getting 30 seconds to buff up with buffs that have what? +20% potency?

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That's what Im getting at, it needs a longer duration or effect ws, drks have the shortest 2hrs in the game. I agree with some of this I definitely dont want a fantastic nerf, but you know how things go around here, jobs get pigeon-holed very easily, and I can see this one from a mile away. Last thing I don't want to see is people shouting in port jueno for drk tp-tanks, and not wanting them to ws, you invite a drk you invite the ZERG bottomline. Ill be happy with a longer duration, 55tp seems to be the cap on a single attack, however you can drain, 3tp, 16tp, 30tp etc. So 55tp appears to be the cap, and you have to fight a mob with a considerable large regain to hit that cap. I would like SE too add duration or en-tp ws effect to it and NOT take anything away. But right now drks would probably be happy if SE simply just address us.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

Wrong! Drk keeps absorbing tp at 300%, once you reach 300% you cannot add more tp to yourself but your drained about stays the same. This also happens with abs-tp spell, drain 1, aspir 1, aspir2, once you hit the maximum capacity cap the drain will show as zero but it still drained and had the desired effect.

Moreover what are you talking about a FEW resolutions? Our 2hrs is only 30 secs, you blink and the buff is over with. You can only do one thing with it, zerg or tp-tank, and which would most linkshells and allainces choose? Almost everyone's 2hr is missed up, but however pup has one of the best new 2hrs. Having 6 new 2hrs added to one job is far better than have a 30 sec auto-attack tp drain.

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If you account for whatever xhit build a good drk zerg set up would have, and the absurd amount of TP you're getting from this 2hour, you're basically going to have upwards of a 2-3 hit going on. Even accounting for WS delay, you should have absolutely no problem getting off 8-10 ws unless you're absolutely terrible at high haste meleeing.

Also, don't bring pup into this. We didn't get 6 new anything, we got 6 clones of already existing 2hours that were intentionally weakened so that they're not as strong as the player version.

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Originally Posted by Cljader1

That's what Im getting at, it needs a longer duration or effect ws, drks have the shortest 2hrs in the game. I agree with some of this I definitely dont want a fantastic nerf, but you know how things go around here, jobs get pigeon-holed very easily, and I can see this one from a mile away. Last thing I don't want to see is people shouting in port jueno for drk tp-tanks, and not wanting them to ws, you invite a drk you invite the ZERG bottomline. Ill be happy with a longer duration, 55tp seems to be the cap on a single attack, however you can drain, 3tp, 16tp, 30tp etc. So 55tp appears to be the cap, and you have to fight a mob with a considerable large regain to hit that cap. I would like SE too add duration or en-tp ws effect to it and NOT take anything away. But right now drks would probably be happy if SE simply just address us.

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Iiiiiiii'm pretty sure Rng actually has the shortest 2hour in the game, since 1 single hit lasts a lot less than 30 seconds.

Oki, pass it on please. The beast community (at least those that can be botherred to wade through all the drivel on these forums to get to the meaningful content) has spoken, the answer is a RESOUNDING "NO!!!" to the new 2-hour. Scrap the concept completely and go back to the drawing board. Again, there are a myriad of suggestions from back when you guys 1st proposed new 2hours back at the inception of these forums. Disregarding anything similar to this useless piece of monkey dung the devs came up with and the obvious OP suggestions there were still plenty of viable alternatives to work from.

Seriously, if you didn't want the playerbase's input and opinions, why did you ask for them?

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

WAR:
The effect is the same as Formless Strikes, but since the job is different and the special traits are different as well, it’s not like you will receive the same exact effect. We’d be happy to hear feedback on the results of WARs using this ability. In regards to wanting the ability’s effect to apply to weapon skills as well, this would make it so that it is far stronger than Mighty Strikes. As an alternative, we are extending the effect duration to open up more attack opportunities.

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Correction: Making this 2hr apply to weapon skills would make it more powerful than mighty strikes when used against things that are incredibly strong / immune to physical damage (the only time you would ever use this).

There is so much "broken" in your logic that I don't know what to say other than: instead of thinking about why you are right and we are wrong, try our idea first and see if it works. We already know that yours does not.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

DNC:
While this can be used similar to Meikyo Shisui, there are of course other ways to use it as well. Since there is an advantage point of being able to use it in combination with other abilities, there are a lot of different uses, so we would like to hear feedback after trying it and considering that aspect as well.

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Just because you have figured out how to make a coffee warmer out of an Ipad doesn't mean that people want you to do it to theirs. The "different uses" that you refer to will never be used by any sane person. Trance sucks bad enough. Can we please have a really good one?

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

BST:
We understand that sacrificing your pet for Stoneskin results in a reduction in attack power. This Stoneskin effect is not used like the magic spell Stoneskin that you would use before entering a fight. It is something that is used in a crisis situation in order to recover and avoid emergencies (For example, if your pet is on the verge of dying and when that happens you will be put in a dangerous spot, etc.)

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This 2 hour ability is absolutely no good. I've read the JP forums and they say the same things. Stop acting like you don't understand the problem here. No one believes that a total moron can develop a video game. We know that you understand what we are trying to tell you. The pet needs to stay. I don't care if you add invincibility for 9 hours to the master. the pet has to stay. Did you hear that? The pet has to stay. Read that out loud. The pet has to stay. Is it sinking in yet? The pet has to stay.

@Frank,

you were a little vague there on the beast 2 hour. Are you saying the consensus opinion amongst beasts is that we need to keep our pets? That's my personal opinion, but the devs seem to be convinced that beasts feel differently.

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Originally Posted by Glamdring

@Frank,

you were a little vague there on the beast 2 hour. Are you saying the consensus opinion amongst beasts is that we need to keep our pets? That's my personal opinion, but the devs seem to be convinced that beasts feel differently.

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yes. lol. ten character limit >.<

THE PET HAS TO STAY, no matter what!! Agreed totally. What kind of an idiot come up with this retarded new 2 hours for beast master, not to mention countless of extremely horrendous ideas for 2 hours for several jobs, ALL EXCEPT Samurai, which actually get one of the best new two hours, pretty much the best of the best from several jobs. The thing that is the most baffling is their constant ignorance to what the players are trying to tell them. Several threads already made suggestions and their stance is still, WE DO NOT CARE NOR LISTEN.... This is a very sad direction indeed....

I agree that the new BST 2 hour should not be one that consumes the pet. I'd like to see a new idea that enhances the pet in some way.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Anyone down for some new 2-hour information on this fine Tuesday?

We introduced two of them during VanaFest, but we just got a hold of the full list!

Currently, we are making adjustments to the effects and running tests on all of these new abilities, and we are planning to implement them in the upcoming test server update. However, as the Development Team is still working on getting all the kinks out, some will not be available right away. They will be doing their best to get as many new 2-hour abilities onto the test server as possible in the next update.

*The name and help text messages for each ability will be tentative when implemented to the test server. Also the effects and their values may be adjusted.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" align="center" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Job</td><td width="75%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Effects</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">WAR</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Regular attacks will become non-elemental and grants a drastic increase in accuracy.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">MNK</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Grants a 100% counter-rate against regular attacks from enemies. Also, the amount of enmity gained by this will increase drastically.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">WHM</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants party members protection from status ailments.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BLM</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Grants a drastic decrease in enmity generated by magic attacks.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">RDM</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants an increase to the effect of enhancing magic.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">THF</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Major damage is dealt to the enemy and all enmity will be transferred to the player standing in front of them.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">PLD</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants an increase to the chance of blocking with a shield and reflects the blocked damage to the attacker.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DRK</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Steals an enemy's TP through regular attacks while the effect is active.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BST</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Absorbs the pet and recovers both HP and removes status ailments. Also, the player will receive a Reraise effect.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BRD</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Drastically reduces the magic defense, magic evasion, and INT/MND of the target.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">RNG</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">The range modifier will become the optimal distance no matter the range to the target. Also, ammunition will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SAM</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">All damage caused by physical special abilities will be evaded. Additionally, weapon skill damage will increase as more special abilities are evaded.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">NIN</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants a drastic increase in parry rate. Additionally, Ninjutsu recast times will be reduced by 50% and ninja tools will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DRG</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Wyvern’s HP is completely restored and all status ailments are cured. Additionally, the wyvern’s stats will increase.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SMN</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">The recast time of both summoning magic and Blood Pacts will become 0 while under the effect of the ability.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">BLU</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">While the ability is in effect, blue magic from Unbridled Learning can be used continuously.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">COR</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants the ability to use up to 3 Phantom Roll effects.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">PUP</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Automaton will use special abilities. Special ability usage will depend on the automaton head.<br>Harlequin Head: Mighty Strikes<br>Valoredge Head: Invincible<br>Sharpshot Head: Eagle Eye Shot<br>Stormwaker Head: Chainspell<br>Soulsoother Head: Benediction (Will apply to the party members and automaton itself)<br>Spiritreaver Head: Manafont</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">DNC</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3" align="left">Grants maximum amount of Finishing Moves and the recast time of all Flourishes will be reset.<br>Additionally, while the ability is in effect, Finishing Moves will not be consumed.</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">SCH</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb" align="left">Will direct enmity of all party members to an indicated player.</td></tr></table>

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First thing I will say is that reading these 2 hour abilities was a painfull process. I will try to tackle these 1 at a time.....

The new warrior 2 hour ability: seems fine if it's applied to weaponskills as well as swings, it would be viable for regular situational use.

The new monk 2 hour ability: This seems like a tanking 2 hour ability and a reasonable panic button for anything that doesn't use area of effect melee swings constantly. Sounds more like it should be done for paladin than monk to me.

The new white mage 2 hour ability: I can see it being situationally usefull. I hope it means -all- status ailments including death.

The new black mage 2 hour ability: back to the drawing board on this one. Just useless. maybe give black mages a job ability type spell like say "ultima" that consumes the mp pool entirely and does a solid 4000 unresistable damage.

The new red mage 2 hour ability: back to the drawing board on this one too. Seems a futile attempt at a 2 hour.

The new thief 2 hour ability: This may be quite usefull if repairs to the enmity mechanics are made, but it feels more like it should share a timer with trick attack and sneak attack, and do the same damage when bully is in effect on the monster that is targeted reguardless of another player standing there, rather than acting as a 2hr.... but if a 2 hour on it's own timer is what we get it's livable.

The new paladin 2 hour ability: I just don't know what you are trying to suggest here, this sounds like what reprisal should have been. I mean honestly, a 2 hour ability that mitigates all magic and breath damage whilest keeping the enemies attention focussed on the paladin for the duration of the 2 hour ability would have been a better option. And there are many better options posted on the forums no doubt.

The new dark knight 2 hour ability: this would have to be 100% procc to be usefull nothing resisting it. unlike blood weapon vs undead (a futile gesture, by way of illustration). And honestly, I think that dark knight would want something more damaging than tactical.

The new beastmaster 2 hour ability: I lack the vocabulary to describe what a bad idea this is.

The new ranger 2 hour ability: This seems like a potentially usefull 2 hour ability, I would suggest that all actions taken under this should generate 0 enmity, to make it worthy of having a 2 hour recast.

The new samurai 2 hour ability: This one seems about right for an ability you can use once every 2 hours.

The new ninja 2 hour ability: I can see the thinking on this one, but I doubt it will be well received by the player base, perhaps a rethink here too.

The new dragoon 2 hour ability: This is possibly the most pointless thing in the entire list. Start again please. I suggest something like a 2 hour where the player super jumps, the wyvern becomes constantly under the effect of deep breathing and the player takes control of the wyvern and can repeatedly use smiting breath, similar to chainspell but for breaths.

The new summoner 2 hour ability: This seems like it would be fun, if nothing else. I would suggest reducing the mp cost to 0 for this also.

The new blue mage 2 hour ability: I feel that unbridled learning should allow access to casting any spell that you have learnt although you wouldn't gain traits or bonuses from it as it's not set. That would make this 2 hour ability work. Otherwise just another gimmick.

The new corsair 2 hour ability: kind of acceptable imo, but people won't want to give up wild card for 2 hour resets so easily.

The new puppet master 2 hour ability: again this feels more like a gimmick than a well thought out 2 hour ability. however I'm less knowledgable about puppetmaster than any other job on the game, but surely we can do better.

The new dancer 2 hour ability: This must have sounded good on paper, but again this is a token 2 hour ability. please go back to the drawing board.

The new scholar 2 hour ability: This should be a spell that can be used under tabula rasa not a new ability.

Ofcourse these are just the oppinions of someone who's played the game since it was available in the uk.
I'm not saying my suggested fixes/instructions are the only way to go, just ideas. I'm sure there are better ones out there. I just feel something had to be said, these seem like 20 minute or even 30 minute timers would be better for them.
Even regular 2 hour abilities should probably be on 30-60 minute timers nowadays rather than 2 hour timers.

Haven't gotten a lot of testing information for the White Mage 2hour from other players, but currently the word is that it doesn't block Death or Encumbrance. No word on if it even blocks Bard songs or Doom, let alone Amnesia, Charm, or anything else special, but I'm guessing it probably doesn't until I hear otherwise.

Perfect Defense blocks many enfeebles in addition to blocking damage from really harming players. White Mages can remove many enfeebles with lightning speed.

I'm guessing it won't get tested by people with current Test Server access and will go on the main servers to never get touched again, kinda how Benediction can't even remove Bard songs from players.

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The new thief 2 hour ability: This may be quite usefull if repairs to the enmity mechanics are made, but it feels more like it should share a timer with trick attack and sneak attack, and do the same damage when bully is in effect on the monster that is targeted reguardless of another player standing there, rather than acting as a 2hr.... but if a 2 hour on it's own timer is what we get it's liveable.

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The last thing THF needs is another JA sharing a timer with something else, we have enough of those already. This ability would have to do a substantial amount of damage to warrant a 2hr recast, it's basically TA on a 2hr timer. It's unlikely to do any meaningful damage since SE seems reluctant to improve THF`s DD potential while at the same time giving all our abilities to other jobs and buffing those more than THF.

An ability along the lines of 100% triple attack for 30seconds-1min would be worlds better than this. That or SCH`s proposed 2hr.

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Originally Posted by Czeph

The new black mage 2 hour ability: back to the drawing board on this one. Just useless. maybe give black mages a job ability type spell like say "ultima" that consumes the mp pool entirely and does a solid 4000 unresistable damage.

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Rather than a static number, lets go with something a bit more fun! It allows you to cast Ultima on a mob, single target, takes all MP, damage is unresistable and deals 5 times the users current MP.

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The new corsair 2 hour ability: kind of acceptable imo, but people won't want to give up wild card for 2 hour resets so easily.

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Honestly I see this as 1 of the worse 2-hours we are getting. BRD is in the same line as a COR in a way, however COR has to use a 2-hour for 1 more buff where as with the Emp Harp a BRD can already do upto 4 songs at any time. Seems a bit unbalanced on the buffer side in my opinion.

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The new scholar 2 hour ability: This should be a spell that can be used under tabula rasa not a new ability.

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Agreed, this ability is 100% worthless in the current game when put beside Tabula Rasa.

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Ofcourse these are just the oppinions of someone who's played the game since it was available in the uk.
I'm not saying my suggested fixes/instructions are the only way to go, just ideas. I'm sure there are better ones out there. I just feel something had to be said, these seem like 20 minute or even 30 minute timers would be better for them.
Even regular 2 hour abilities should probably be on 30-60 minute timers nowadays rather than 2 hour timers.

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Yep, abilities like these are to long and too weak now days, I was hoping these 2-hours would be worth the wait but SE once again let us all down, except SAM, SAM is wonderful.

The main reason I suggested a static number was that when you are pushed to use it you would probably have low mp. however this could become very exploitable with a more fluid number the way your suggesting. think about 18 blms with max mp builds using it at once to one shot notorious monsters that still matter, the reason I suggest 4000 as a static figure is that anything voidwatch onwards usually has significantly more than 72000hp, however as much fun as it would be to do a straight multiple of mp, it would become overpowered imo. With current equipment you would be looking at something like 3000ish maximum mp, potentially even greater numbers. although 2x maximum mp pool for damage figures would work without unbalancing things, I think 3x maximum mp would turn out over powered, and less than 2x mp pool would be underpowered for a 2 hour ability.

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Originally Posted by Calatilla

The last thing THF needs is another JA sharing a timer with something else, we have enough of those already. This ability would have to do a substantial amount of damage to warrant a 2hr recast, it's basically TA on a 2hr timer. It's unlikely to do any meaningful damage since SE seems reluctant to improve THF`s DD potential while at the same time giving all our abilities to other jobs and buffing those more than THF.

An ability along the lines of 100% triple attack for 30seconds-1min would be worlds better than this. That or SCH`s proposed 2hr.

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yes, that would be a better 2hr option. perhaps named assasin's flurry? but would that apply to weaponskills as well? sounds fun if that's the case.

also reguarding the response to my endorsement of corsair's 2 hour ability, we must also consider that corsair is a damage dealer that can produce high damage numbers as well as buff a party. Perhaps something more in a dd vain for corsair would have been a more appropriate, but under the assumption that this ability would be used like soulvoice, perhaps the ability to put 3 rolls on under the ability and hit 11 with each roll?

Can someone link me to the name's of the new 2 hours?
I'd really love to find them

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Honestly I see this as 1 of the worse 2-hours we are getting. BRD is in the same line as a COR in a way, however COR has to use a 2-hour for 1 more buff where as with the Emp Harp a BRD can already do upto 4 songs at any time. Seems a bit unbalanced on the buffer side in my opinion.

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In defense of the cor 2hour, at the very least, it lasts until you zone. So long as you keep overwriting the third roll before it wears off, you can keep up your third roll indefinitely. Not sure if that's a bug, but it's really the only saving grace of it.

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Originally Posted by Dawnn

Can someone link me to the name's of the new 2 hours?
I'd really love to find them

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posted it a few pages back;

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Originally Posted by Theytak

Also, apparently, they added some working names for some of the 2hours:
war: Imminent Strikes
whm: Asylum
blm: Sublte Sorcery (The typo is in game)
rdm: Encomium
pld: Righteous Guard
drk: DRK2h (read: no name yet)
bst: Feral Sacrifice (So... yea)
brd: Malinconico
rng: Instinctive Aim
sam: Yaegasumi
nin: Tengen
drg: Rouse Wyvern
smn: Astral Conduit
blu: Unbridled Wisdom
cor: Three to One
pup: Heady Artifice (... /facepalm.... you make the terrible thing worse by giving it a punny name....)
dnc: Grand Pas
sch: Caper Emissarius

If nothing else, they're good at naming stuff. The names don't make them suck any less, but most of them do sound cool.

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thf's 2hr doesn't have a name? or it isn't on the list?

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Originally Posted by Dawnn

thf's 2hr doesn't have a name? or it isn't on the list?

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Its the only one not on the server ATM. - Oh and MNK

They fear me.

I'm not a WHM but according to testing, Asylum doesn't guard against Death, Doom, Encumbrance, Terror, Def Down or Stun. So, here's my question: Is there a point to this 2 Hour given this new information?

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Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Its the only one not on the server ATM. - Oh and MNK

They fear me.

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If it's as crap as it sounds it doesn't deserve a name.

Edit: I think the whole idea of a second 2hr ability is a waste of resources to tell you the truth, as it stands all but maybe 1(sam?) won't even be used over the originals so it makes no real difference if these all suck or not.

Feral Sacrifice... Really SE? We aren't sacrificing our pets... we're eating them!

The scenario you gave us for when BST would use this 2-hour is exactly the same as we predicted and Beastmasters will NEVER be in a situation like that. Allow me to point you to an ongoing thread discussing everyones point of view on this 2-hour with suggestions. x]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-After-Testing.

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Originally Posted by Mefuki

I'm not a WHM but according to testing, Asylum doesn't guard against Death, Doom, Encumbrance, Terror, Def Down or Stun. So, here's my question: Is there a point to this 2 Hour given this new information?

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Well, it's probably more useful than Benediction nowadays. Then again, an exact copy of Eagle Eye Shot to be used with the strongest tathlum possible would be similarly more useful than Benediction nowadays, so that's not saying much.

It's kind of mind-boggling that Asylum doesn't even block stuff removed by Erase. Somebody had to dig deep to think of something that disappointing.

At the very least, at an absolute minimum, Asylum should block everything an enhanced Esuna can remove.

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be adding monk’s new 2-hour ability, so be sure to try it out and let us know your feedback.

I’d just like to reiterate that we will be spending a good amount of time working on these new 2-hour abilities before we actually implement them. We would like to make sure that they are useful in battle, so we will not be rushing to get these onto the live servers right away.

The Development Team is continuing to look into possibilities based on all the feedback we are receiving and they will actually be holding a meeting soon to discuss this. We’d like to respond with the results of their discussion and talk about the direction they are heading after this takes place.

Until then, please continue to test out the new abilities and provide your feedback! :)

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be adding monk’s new 2-hour ability, so be sure to try it out and let us know your feedback.

I’d just like to reiterate that we will be spending a good amount of time working on these new 2-hour abilities before we actually implement them. We would like to make sure that they are useful in battle, so we will not be rushing to get these onto the live servers right away.

The Development Team is continuing to look into possibilities based on all the feedback we are receiving and they will actually be holding a meeting soon to discuss this. We’d like to respond with the results of their discussion and talk about the direction they are heading after this takes place.

Until then, please continue to test out the new abilities and provide your feedback! :)

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Thank you for the update on the 2-hour abilities Camate, its nice to see the MNK 2-hour will be able to be tested soon, however I still have to worry about the seemingly unsatisfactory sounding THF 2-hour. In either case it is good to see that there are no plans to just throw these at the players without making sure they are liked, and useful. I would like to ask however, can you please tell us, has the voice of the players regarding the BST 2-hour been properly given to the Devs yet? And have they reconsidered the abilities of this effect? I would like to remind you before you tell us, that we are not worried about losing offensive power, rather we worry about losing our defense, for what is seemingly less defense. I would like to think that this game really is trying to improve, by listening to the player base, and even though at times we do not all agree, in this case, it seems nearly unanimous that we do not like this ability, and want to see it changed, I think changing this as players wish would go a long way in showing that the new man in charge, is truly listening to players feedback, and taking it into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be adding monk’s new 2-hour ability, so be sure to try it out and let us know your feedback.

I’d just like to reiterate that we will be spending a good amount of time working on these new 2-hour abilities before we actually implement them. We would like to make sure that they are useful in battle, so we will not be rushing to get these onto the live servers right away.

The Development Team is continuing to look into possibilities based on all the feedback we are receiving and they will actually be holding a meeting soon to discuss this. We’d like to respond with the results of their discussion and talk about the direction they are heading after this takes place.

Until then, please continue to test out the new abilities and provide your feedback! :)

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Can you at least put SMN on live server? It's awesome the way it is! XD j/k j/k. I know they will be all at once. Or ARE you guys going to release them as they are "finalized" so to say?. :D

At first i kinda laughed, but at this point, I'm kinda getting a little on the upset side at how long THF's 2hour is taking to get on the Test server...

The optimist in me is hoping they're fine-tunning it to be a powerful tool, and are just taking a little longer than necessary.

The Pessimist in me assumes they made it too strong to begin with and are just nerfing it properly.

the new MNK 2H looks OK if it lasts 3 minutes, say.

Anything would be better than hundred fists. HF was good during the level 75 cap, but nowadayas its way too situational, because as soon as you have a bard(2x march) or a sch (embrava) you are capped on haste (double marches is a permanent hundred fist that do not evan require 2H ability). Last time I found HF useful was on those Iron giants that have a 1 minute weakness move lol..

Most of the *new* 2hr's are complete crap, either far to short a duration or to weak an effect to be useful. A few are good though highly situational.

Camate could the devs look to shorten the recasts of all "2 hours" into something like 30 minutes? The game has changed significantly since 2002 and the idea of any ability being on a 120 minute timer is really bad. Super awesome abilities should be on a 30 minute time, short enough to be used yet long enough to prevent abuse.

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Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Rather than a static number, lets go with something a bit more fun! It allows you to cast Ultima on a mob, single target, takes all MP, damage is unresistable and deals 5 times the users current MP.

Honestly I see this as 1 of the worse 2-hours we are getting. BRD is in the same line as a COR in a way, however COR has to use a 2-hour for 1 more buff where as with the Emp Harp a BRD can already do upto 4 songs at any time. Seems a bit unbalanced on the buffer side in my opinion.

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Considering COR buff is way more potent, while BRD need to stack many same song type, I wouldn't say it's such huge deal.

If there are no embrava, BRD already used 2 buff slot for haste, if there are embrava, then most commonly used songs are attack/acc.

Compare with attack/acc roll COR has:


No.4 Chaos gives 35% attack with DRK(you should always have DRK in DD pt anyways), No.11 gives 41%. Average number like 6 or 7 gives 23%~26%

If you use chaos first on your roll rotation, you will never pop unlucky. A melee job like DRK should be able to hit 1k+ attack(I think) with food/JA up. So that's easily 230+ attack with average number like 6~7, and 400+ attack with No.11. With just 1 buff slot.

A 4 song BRD singing Minuet 2~5 but didn't pop 2hr:

Minuet 2=32 attack, 3=48, 4= 56 5=62

32+48+56+62=198

198 attack with 4 buff slot, still inferior to 1 No.6 Chaos roll in terms of buff potency.

Hunters roll is a little bit less potent than chaos, assuming no RNG in pt, No. 4 hunters gives 40 accuracy, No.11 gives 50. No.8 gives 5, No. 6 gives 20. Having RNG in pt or Af2 hat proc gives extra 15 more.

Sword Madrigal gives 15 acc, Blade gives 30.

So as long as there's a RNG in pt or AF2 hat proc, a No.10, 11, 4 hunters still more potent than 2 Madrigal.

Basically, a 4 song BRD needs to pop 2hr to reach same amount of attack buff potency COR can give with just 1 buff slot. I don't see how it's very unbalanced. That's not accounting COR has it's own output to add up while BRD has none in any EG event worthwhile(1h melee sucked on anything worthwhile and very dangerous, while COR has access to /ra and magical WS and got less disadvantage with AoE/lv correction). Add all that together, it's fairly equal IMO.

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Originally Posted by Afania

A 4 song BRD singing Minuet 2~5 but didn't pop 2hr:

Minuet 2=32 attack, 3=48, 4= 56 5=62

32+48+56+62=198

198 attack with 4 buff slot, still inferior to 1 No.6 Chaos roll in terms of buff potency.

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you didn't count song + instruments/gear and merits. 4xminuets from bard is quite awsome, but in practice not very useful due to RCB and berzerk ( 2x minuet, rcb and berzerk puts you at ~1100 attack on most DDs, which is caped attack on many mobs, and ~950 attacks if you cannot berserk).

For info. my Gjallarhorn 99 + daurdable 99 bard's quadruple minuets (non SV'ed) gives: STR+20, attack+281, and it doesn't have merits in minuets ( add +20 attack if merits). A non Gjallarhorn bard (+3 instrument) with minuet merits should give the same bonus.

also chaos roll probably works like berserk, in the sense its a percentage bonus of your attack before food. So if your DD has 1000 attack, and uses RCB, chaos will give 23% (or whatever number) of 850, and not 23% of 1000.


Same remark for madrigals. You have +1 on AF3+2 and +3 instrument (+4 on relic). If I recal, double madrigals actually gives ~80 accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings!

During this week’s Test Server update we will be adding monk’s new 2-hour ability, so be sure to try it out and let us know your feedback.

I’d just like to reiterate that we will be spending a good amount of time working on these new 2-hour abilities before we actually implement them. We would like to make sure that they are useful in battle, so we will not be rushing to get these onto the live servers right away.

The Development Team is continuing to look into possibilities based on all the feedback we are receiving and they will actually be holding a meeting soon to discuss this. We’d like to respond with the results of their discussion and talk about the direction they are heading after this takes place.

Until then, please continue to test out the new abilities and provide your feedback! :)

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Sorry, but that's pretty laughable. You say you want to make sure they're useful in battle, a large portion of them are not. We've told you why many times and never get any responses except "tell us what you want", when we do.