Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

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Originally Posted by rog

Actually it does, but he's an idiot anyway.

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What law, praytell, would Abyssea leechers be breaking?

Legality is related to legitimacy, however the adjective "Legal" specifically refers to a function of Law and not equity. As funny as it is to hear him call players illegitimate, illegal is quite wrong.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

What law, praytell, would Abyssea leechers be breaking?

Legality is related to legitimacy, however the adjective "Legal" specifically refers to a function of Law and not equity. As funny as it is to hear him call players illegitimate, illegal is quite wrong.

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None, hence why he's an idiot.

However illegal can refer to anything that is against any set of rules. For example, an illegal move in chess. It doesn't only refer to laws passed by a government.

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Originally Posted by Kjara

on second place, less exp parties hurt the economy. I'm on Siren and the crystals here raised to awful prices because with less exp parties, crystals are more rare (not all crafters want to go farm their clusters).
More pricey crystals means more expensive consumable items (10k for a stack of shihei), and less mid-level gear (because the crafters can't sell them anymore at a worthy price and rate, as key-whores will skip that armor to wear cruor armor when they hit 78).

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Wow we need to stop abyssea leeching to force people to farm crystals and such because prices are to high for crafters? We'll I am naturally against raising the level cap to me this would be a dumb reason to raise it. Prices have gone up on a lot of things that are effected by not having old school exp parties. Signet staves, Imperial coins and crystals are the 3 I notice are greatly effected by less old school parties. Know what I say to that? Sweet and easier way to farm gil. That's how the game works boys and girls. The mechanics change and someone steps in to farm up the items.

I think what some of you are failing to realize is the deterrent to leeching say nin from 30-90 then main tanking the next day is YOU SUCK! You have to take the time to play catchup to some sort of degree on the job before you play it. Even if you have the skills from another job you still don't know the new jobs play style and it will show. Now someone sucking in abyssea wow like that's not new but people do get sick of it quick and stop asking these retards to join them. Just my two cents

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Originally Posted by rog

tl;dr: you don't like it, so you want to force everyone to play with you.

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People are entitled to their opinion dude lol. Yes, this is has taken away from people who like 6-man. On the flip side, you are saying "I like my fast exp, those of you who don't, tough luck." It's the same argument that you are complaining that she is making except from the opposite point of view.

Bottom line is that some people love it, some people hate it. But really, why troll people for differing opinions (oh right, the internet). All you can really do is give your opinion on the situation, and let others give theirs.

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Originally Posted by rog

None, hence why he's an idiot.

However illegal can refer to anything that is against any set of rules. For example, an illegal move in chess. It doesn't only refer to laws passed by a government.

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Quite true. The context in particular I was pointing out was his saying that leeching exp in Abyssea was illegal, which is absolutely hilarious. Botting may be illegal within the confines of FFXI's rules, but extending that to include bad sportsmanship or leeching exp is just trolling at its finest. I wish I had Starcade's gift for this sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Quite true. The context in particular I was pointing out was his saying that leeching exp in Abyssea was illegal, which is absolutely hilarious. Botting may be illegal within the confines of FFXI's rules, but extending that to include bad sportsmanship or leeching exp is just trolling at its finest. I wish I had Starcade's gift for this sort of thing.

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Seriously yes, just wow Starcade. now is at the point where is totally absurd. If you really have something to report, seriously make a favor to everyone and create thread for the STF, if you call every unskilled player a cheater then i wish a MOD come here and remove all your post, to me is very inflammatory (I am already surprise none did it already) As far we can agree with you about cheating in the game and some frustrating action from many group, i doubt is appropriate to put everyone in the same boat.

Your action to keep this going imo is on purpose to troll everyone in your fabulation.

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Originally Posted by Avina

People are entitled to their opinion dude lol. Yes, this is has taken away from people who like 6-man. On the flip side, you are saying "I like my fast exp, those of you who don't, tough luck." It's the same argument that you are complaining that she is making except from the opposite point of view.

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No, i don't care how you play. If you want to exp outside of abyssea, then feel free to do so. it doesn't bother me one bit.

Oh, but you can't find anyone else willing to exp outside abyssea? Well that means that every other person thinks abyssea is a better place to exp at. In which case you want force every single other person to do something they don't want to, just to accommodate 1~ people? Don't you think that's just a little selfish?

The logic that he's using is the exact same logic I'm applying when I'm saying that he must be Wizzbot.

He says that nobody (not leaving any sort of leeway for anyone... even PS2/360 users who, while it may be possible, would have one hell of a hard time being able to cheat in this game. Anyone who claims they don't cheat is, by his logic, hiding the fact that do in fact cheat.

Since he's the absolutely most outspoken anti-cheat poster in existence, anywhere... well, his logic dictates that it's obviously because he not only cheats like crazy, but he creates those cheats and distributes them.

Also, rofllegality.

Only fix I'd like to see is characters being ejected from abyssea for inactivity for more than 20 minutes, like the auto-logout feature. One thing I hate more than anything is seeing a level 75+ player come into an Abyssea party and them going perma afk hoping that no one will notice. These are the people that if I have party lead get kicked after 10 minutes and I won't invite them to a party again. The true "leeches". At least a key man is busting ass and using their own cruor to do a job. Where a "leech" is someone that just stands there, does nothing, and reaps all the rewards. That is true failure.

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Only fix I'd like to see is characters being ejected from abyssea for inactivity for more than 20 minutes,

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This is a horrible idea.

I like being able to take a nap wake up and kill some more NMs when I'm sitting on 1000+ minutes.

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Originally Posted by Avina

People are entitled to their opinion dude lol. Yes, this is has taken away from people who like 6-man. On the flip side, you are saying "I like my fast exp, those of you who don't, tough luck." It's the same argument that you are complaining that she is making except from the opposite point of view.

Bottom line is that some people love it, some people hate it. But really, why troll people for differing opinions (oh right, the internet). All you can really do is give your opinion on the situation, and let others give theirs.

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Saying "force people to exp the way I like to exp or don't let them exp at all," isn't an opinion. It's blatantly an biased demand.

let everyone decide for him/her self ppl who want be my guest its just gonna be hard to be really good at it till you have skilled it. But yes atfirst i was like 30 is to low also.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

What law, praytell, would Abyssea leechers be breaking?

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There at least used to be a "law" which allowed Square-Enix to remove any account which exploited the game in any way in which the creators did not intend. It was basically used as a catch-all to cover any future exploits that the creators didn't think of.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Legality is related to legitimacy, however the adjective "Legal" specifically refers to a function of Law and not equity. As funny as it is to hear him call players illegitimate, illegal is quite wrong.

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Actually, vis-a-vis FFXI, that's two different concepts. Otherwise, you'd have seen bans for every Souleating DRK or every SCH that annihilated Absolute Virtue. The moves were legal, but they were not considered legitimate. Two different mechanisms.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I don't think that word (legality) means what you think it means.

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There's a reason I post this, both with respect to the players' conduct and with respect to Square-Enix' conduct:

(From uslegal.com, through The Market Ticker)

"Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading."

If I had known, before I started, that the rank-and-file players of FFXI were so abusive and spit at the rules so much, I'd never have started this game. There is no way that I could recommend this game to anybody in the MMO market, unless and until most of the American player-base is probably eliminated, because of the griefing, abuse, illegality, and fraud which is all over FFXI.

(And, really, isn't that, to some degree, why the request which this thread started with was made? The amount of abuse which Abyssea absolutely appears to encourage by the players is one of the reasons I think the argument of raising the level requirement for Abyssea has significant merit!)

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Originally Posted by Pikel

I think what some of you are failing to realize is the deterrent to leeching say nin from 30-90 then main tanking the next day is YOU SUCK! You have to take the time to play catchup to some sort of degree on the job before you play it. Even if you have the skills from another job you still don't know the new jobs play style and it will show. Now someone sucking in abyssea wow like that's not new but people do get sick of it quick and stop asking these retards to join them. Just my two cents

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In a game which encourages so much abuse, and doesn't really start until you hit the level cap (Protip: 3/4 of the characters on, at any given time, are at the level cap...), what deterrent does "YOU SUCK" have, in any real respect?

Answer: None.

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Originally Posted by Orson

Saying "force people to exp the way I like to exp or don't let them exp at all," isn't an opinion. It's blatantly an biased demand.

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I'd say "Force people to actually play the damned game." You could get to the point that Abyssea could be openly used as a manner in which RMT could get a level 90 rather quickly and then try to avoid the RMT PWNER v. 1.337 long enough to do some real damage again.

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Originally Posted by Orson

Saying "force people to exp the way I like to exp or don't let them exp at all," isn't an opinion. It's blatantly an biased demand.

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Uh, last I checked, she didn't demand anything. She was explaining what she perceived was a problem and was posting her opinion on it. All she did was say she thinks it should be raised and she gave some reasons for saying that. You know, something that supposedly an online forum is supposed to encourage, and her reply was markedly more polite than any of the replies she got from people who seem apparently terrified to lose their precious exp.

But seriously, take some time to actually read someone's post before you try to spin it in the worst possible way.

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Originally Posted by Fiarlia

The logic that he's using is the exact same logic I'm applying when I'm saying that he must be Wizzbot.

He says that nobody (not leaving any sort of leeway for anyone... even PS2/360 users who, while it may be possible, would have one hell of a hard time being able to cheat in this game. Anyone who claims they don't cheat is, by his logic, hiding the fact that do in fact cheat.

Since he's the absolutely most outspoken anti-cheat poster in existence, anywhere... well, his logic dictates that it's obviously because he not only cheats like crazy, but he creates those cheats and distributes them.

Also, rofllegality.

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The player-base makes it very difficult for me to have any such leeway. There are in fact speculations that even some JP PS2 users have a form of Windower (only speculations, to the best of my knowledge).

I think you better have some words with Square-Enix' Legal Department -- I think they'd be very interested in your claims.

But why would you? You spit at the entire concept of legality, by your own words and admission.

Put a skill-floor requirement on Abyssea.

If your major skills aren't leveled - no Abyssea for you!

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Originally Posted by Sagian

Put a skill-floor requirement on Abyssea.

If your major skills aren't leveled - no Abyssea for you!

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That's even dumber than raising the level requirement.

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Originally Posted by rog

That's even dumber than raising the level requirement.

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Justify why it's dumb or stop trolling.

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Originally Posted by rog

That's even dumber than raising the level requirement.

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No it's not. It'd be a better way to curtail the abuse.

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Originally Posted by Sagian

Justify why it's dumb or stop trolling.

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Dual wield war.
drk's best weapon in abyssea is axe, because of the crit ws, which is not a weapon type they are intended to use.
No skill matters in exp parties for rdm, whm, or smn.

etc.

Not only would it prevent leeches, it'll also prevent people who have legitimate reasons for not being skilled up in their main wepaon.

I'd like to see it not entered till level 75. New area exp should take place after you've played the game and skilled up like all others before. Just my two cents.

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Maybe we can get back to the posting???? I thought it said raise level for abby not where the last few pages are??? Is there anyt moderators in the forum to move posts?

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Originally Posted by rog

Dual wield war.
drk's best weapon in abyssea is axe, because of the crit ws, which is not a weapon type they are intended to use.
No skill matters in exp parties for rdm, whm, or smn.

etc.

Not only would it prevent leeches, it'll also prevent people who have legitimate reasons for not being skilled up in their main wepaon.

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None of that matters as long as they keep their major skills at a certain level, which they may be encouraged to do outside of Abyssea. How do rdm, whm, and smn skills not matter?

I like it being 30+.

It takes a lot of the irritation out of gaining experience and gives people more time to enjoy the game. It helps with subjobs. Some of my friends figured out jobs they took all the way up with Abyssea faster than I did when I leveled it oldschool 1~75. ^^; So abyssea does not mean a person cannot learn...

Now Abyssea leeching is an exploit. Okay.

I'll not bother replying to your replies to me because it's fairly obvious you can't read, and completely parroted back the exact reasons I said you were wrong.

I do find it funny, however, that you believe you have the right to dictate how FFXI should be played. As I recall, that is Square Enix and Square Enix alone's prerogative. Unless you're best friends with Sundi and Tanaka and are thus conveying their will, let them speak for themselves. Since it's obvious that they haven't declared Abyssea leeching an exploit, it is thus acceptable.

When SE found out about Salvage duping, they declared it an exploit and had an emergency maint (and banned people who intentionally exploited it *instead* of telling GMs because it was hidden for so long). When SE found out about Ironclad freezing and that crap with Amhuluk, they declared it an exploit and had an emergency maint. SE knows about Abyssea leeching, and have not declared it any sort of exploit or had an emergency maint to remove it. Therefore, Abyssea Leeching is legal. Hell, it is legitimate. Call a GM on a key-leecher if you want, see how well that goes.

If this makes you feel that Square Enix is simply not enforcing their game properly and enabling bad players, it is your *Responsibility* to stop supporting that "Illegitimate" company and just quit. You're not really worth the lulz.

hmm.. people are all complaining about relative intelligence by gear choice. This is altogether confusing, because as a THF I gear as a double/triple attack thief with an emphasis on haste and dual wield+. Most mithra thieves gear purely for DEX and ATK. you can't always tell if a person is a "bad player" at first glance without understanding what they've merited and what their gear-swaps are and what they were aiming for. there is no "1 right way" to play a job.

and at the idea of raising the xp outside abyssea again? Does anyone actually realize how wasteful that actually would be? I'm not going to run from Bastok to Dunes in less than an hour from 1-12 and then dunes to qufim 12-21 and then qufim to jungles 25-32 and then altepa or garlaige and then other altepa or CN and then ... do you see how time-consuming that would be? deal with the fact that abyssea is easier.

^ totally agree with Unaisis on P15: make it DC exp chains and lengthen the time. maybe make it so you have to have signet (or equivalent) on to get that bonus. that's a fair way to do it. also, maybe make chains cap beyond 300 or whatever it is depending on area, maybe to 600. make rings not useless save for once a day. or you could even add a Title for getting an xp chain over say, 500. that way you could tell a bad player from a good one. would that make you who want "nostalgia" happy, and you who still want to abyssea and just don't care happy? the nostalgia people get what they want and the pragmatic people still get to do abyssea.

everyone's whining about "all the stupid players." has anyone stopped to think that, just perhaps, some of them aren't ignorant, just uninformed? if a brand-new player reads this thread, they're going to quit today because people are so insensitive to a source of XP they -thought- they SHOULD be monopolizing on (because of popular opinion they received on the server, etc). This means that ultimately if you said to XYZ player "hey you can skip these spells but these ones here are -really- important. blah blah (same for gear) (same for tactics of pulling/curing/etc)" THEY'D LEARN and PROBABLY be grateful. Stop demonizing the game.

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Originally Posted by chubrocka

Maybe we can get back to the posting???? I thought it said raise level for abby not where the last few pages are??? Is there anyt moderators in the forum to move posts?

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I already raised the question many time, already pointed how this was derailing, moderator must be busy somewhere else. Because i read up the 'agreement' and this if by far not respecting it by multiple clause.

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Originally Posted by Rule & Policies

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Please MOD come clear this (Review Starcade Post and who derailed with him), so we all can go back talk to the initial topic.

The initial topic has been talked to death anyways. Both sides say the exact same things pretty much every single post. "Don't tell others how to play the game" on one side, and "Abyssea caused 12/10/2012 and made all the new players quit" on the other. Really, no one is going to get anything more at all out of this. It was a useless thread to begin with. I don't mind if it gets locked/removed or whatnot, I'm just enjoying watching Starcade embarrass himself.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

I don't mind if it gets locked/removed or whatnot, I'm just enjoying watching Starcade embarrass himself.

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He could have done this in his own thread, tbh.

personally, i don't see how soloing makes you any better a player than abyssea keying does. if anything, that just means you know how to deal with a DC mob (on average by average job/subjob), probably don't have an endgame SJ, probably don't know "how to party" endgame style, probably have poor gear choices for your job's strengths, and above all else, are probably more interested in saving your own hide when stuff hits the fan. and if you spent 6 months levelling "the old fashioned way", you still probably have a majority of the above problems. accept that this game is roughly 10 years old now by japanese standards, that gear has come and gone, and that new players are pigeon-holed into being what they are.

take bard for example. you're tought from 1-12 to just save yourself and dont take anything tough. then from 12-24 to sing a few songs here and there and basically cure every now-and-again. and then from 25-54 you have to organize mages. Anyone who played way back remembers that etudes hit the whole group so you'd be doing INT and ballad. then updates happened etc. anyway from 55-75 pre-TOAU ballad II came out so it was a whole different game for bards. then when TOAU happened we were expected to pull, which meant dropping our time-tried /WHM for /NIN. Dynamis had similar expectations.

as a new player, you can't learn everything in under a year, on any job, because its role changes too much with different updates, different content, and different gear additions. there will ALWAYS be something to skill up, some piece of gear you need, some quest to do, some key item you want, some NM you haven't heard of, some combination for your job you haven't thought about, some person you haven't met who will enrich your game experience and on the flipside some other person who will undoubtably enrage you. you're paying monthly for this mixed blessing, and so are the new people. teach them or shut up and don't make it worse for them.

also, if gear on the AH is such a problem for new and low-level players that they won't party outside abyssea and you WANT them to, petition SE to make NPC shop gear more useful and/or more variety for a LOT less gil. make gil easier to come by. and while you're at it, make crafting not suck as a time/money investment. you can't; you can't even come up with solutions for those problems without breaking things elsewhere in the game. don't complain about abyssea leeches and then do nothing to contribute how to make new player's game experience enjoyable. you like to call all the people who are for leeching selfish, but really, whose being selfish making a new player leave because they have no friends, no gear, no cruor, and no parties?

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Originally Posted by Avina

Uh, last I checked, she didn't demand anything. She was explaining what she perceived was a problem and was posting her opinion on it. All she did was say she thinks it should be raised and she gave some reasons for saying that. You know, something that supposedly an online forum is supposed to encourage, and her reply was markedly more polite than any of the replies she got from people who seem apparently terrified to lose their precious exp.

But seriously, take some time to actually read someone's post before you try to spin it in the worst possible way.

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So you're saying she doesn't want to nerf a largely popular way that people like to exp now? The heart of the matter is that the OP and the poor little person you are defending want to subject everyone to their demands. They are literally grasping at straws to make it seem like faster, easier exp is bad.

Ok you want a rebuttal? Fine...

High crystal prices are a good thing because it's easy income for new players that don't have much gil. If you are a crafter that can't afford to buy crystals then there is something seriously wrong and you shouldn't be crafting. If the cost of materials goes up the end product's price goes up the crafter doesn't lose anything unless the market is over saturated.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

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Originally Posted by Starcade

There at least used to be a "law" which allowed Square-Enix to remove any account which exploited the game in any way in which the creators did not intend. It was basically used as a catch-all to cover any future exploits that the creators didn't think of.




Actually, vis-a-vis FFXI, that's two different concepts. Otherwise, you'd have seen bans for every Souleating DRK or every SCH that annihilated Absolute Virtue. The moves were legal, but they were not considered legitimate. Two different mechanisms.

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One of the things I hate most about some people is that some of them like to THINK they're intelligent and even SOUND like they're intelligent... but they're really not. You're one of them, Starcade.

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Originally Posted by Rubeus

personally, i don't see how soloing makes you any better a player than abyssea keying does. if anything, that just means you know how to deal with a DC mob (on average by average job/subjob), probably don't have an endgame SJ, probably don't know "how to party" endgame style, probably have poor gear choices for your job's strengths, and above all else, are probably more interested in saving your own hide when stuff hits the fan. and if you spent 6 months levelling "the old fashioned way", you still probably have a majority of the above problems. accept that this game is roughly 10 years old now by japanese standards, that gear has come and gone, and that new players are pigeon-holed into being what they are.

take bard for example. you're tought from 1-12 to just save yourself and dont take anything tough. then from 12-24 to sing a few songs here and there and basically cure every now-and-again. and then from 25-54 you have to organize mages. Anyone who played way back remembers that etudes hit the whole group so you'd be doing INT and ballad. then updates happened etc. anyway from 55-75 pre-TOAU ballad II came out so it was a whole different game for bards. then when TOAU happened we were expected to pull, which meant dropping our time-tried /WHM for /NIN. Dynamis had similar expectations.

as a new player, you can't learn everything in under a year, on any job, because its role changes too much with different updates, different content, and different gear additions. there will ALWAYS be something to skill up, some piece of gear you need, some quest to do, some key item you want, some NM you haven't heard of, some combination for your job you haven't thought about, some person you haven't met who will enrich your game experience and on the flipside some other person who will undoubtably enrage you. you're paying monthly for this mixed blessing, and so are the new people. teach them or shut up and don't make it worse for them.

also, if gear on the AH is such a problem for new and low-level players that they won't party outside abyssea and you WANT them to, petition SE to make NPC shop gear more useful and/or more variety for a LOT less gil. make gil easier to come by. and while you're at it, make crafting not suck as a time/money investment. you can't; you can't even come up with solutions for those problems without breaking things elsewhere in the game. don't complain about abyssea leeches and then do nothing to contribute how to make new player's game experience enjoyable. you like to call all the people who are for leeching selfish, but really, whose being selfish making a new player leave because they have no friends, no gear, no cruor, and no parties?

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This is a very well spoken post, Rubeus. ^^

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Originally Posted by Rubeus

hmm.. people are all complaining about relative intelligence by gear choice. This is altogether confusing, because as a THF I gear as a double/triple attack thief with an emphasis on haste and dual wield+. Most mithra thieves gear purely for DEX and ATK. you can't always tell if a person is a "bad player" at first glance without understanding what they've merited and what their gear-swaps are and what they were aiming for. there is no "1 right way" to play a job.

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I agree completely. I'm an Elvaan thf and a player who doesn't place nearly as much emphasis on haste as many other players do. I build my thf on mainly dex, agi, and now chr with str as a secondary emphasis just so I can dps a little harder. dex and agi are obvious, but why chr? Because Dancing Edge is still my all time favorite weapon skill (except in sky... as the sky gods seem to be weakest to Mandalic Stab) and chr helps my Dancing Edge hit harder. I regularly WS for 1300-1500 damage with SA or TA and have sometimes even hit 1700-1800. that's NOT in abyssea areas. I consider that pretty darn good for a thf who isn't a hard core DD like sam or war. I'm not saying that brag... just pointing out that it's not always smart to criticize somebody else's gear choices. Oh yeah, and I'm a DD (war & sam) who tries to balance out gear as best as possible so I DON'T have gear changing macros. Why? Because I like for my mages to actually be ABLE to cure me. Not everybody has windower's Blink Me Not!

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Originally Posted by Naturebeckles

I agree completely. I'm an Elvaan thf and a player who doesn't place nearly as much emphasis on haste as many other players do. I build my thf on mainly dex, agi, and now chr with str as a secondary emphasis just so I can dps a little harder. dex and agi are obvious, but why chr? Because Dancing Edge is still my all time favorite weapon skill (except in sky... as the sky gods seem to be weakest to Mandalic Stab) and chr helps my Dancing Edge hit harder. I regularly WS for 1300-1500 damage with SA or TA and have sometimes even hit 1700-1800. that's NOT in abyssea areas. I consider that pretty darn good for a thf who isn't a hard core DD like sam or war. I'm not saying that brag... just pointing out that it's not always smart to criticize somebody else's gear choices. Oh yeah, and I'm a DD (war & sam) who tries to balance out gear as best as possible so I DON'T have gear changing macros. Why? Because I like for my mages to actually be ABLE to cure me. Not everybody has windower's Blink Me Not!

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^ this. this so hardcore. completely agree.

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Originally Posted by Rubeus

^ this. this so hardcore. completely agree.

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Thanks :)

Oh yeah! And I forgot! I have a couple of eva skill + pieces to use for tanking. I LOVE tanking on my thf/nin. ;)

Overall, reading this long thread made me realize there are legitimate reasons for people to key whore in abyssea. It's kind of like an anology to concept of people who want to screen people and make them do parenting classes before they decide to have kids. In America at least, that's a concept that isn't going to fly, but the idea is the same: the dumb people who shouldn't have kids are like the dumb people who shouldn't be key whoring in abyssea because they need to learn their jobs. But, you can't possibly enforce something that ruins it or take the rights away from people who are perfectly able to be parents/learn their jobs well even while exping in abyssea.

The other thing I learned reading this thread? Starcade spends a lot of energy trying to convince others he's more intelligent than he really is. *giggles*

You act like you're the only one that knows why THFs would want CHR or Evasion. >_>

Sorry, nope. While it's possible that some people may not be aware that CHR is a mod for DE, the evasion gear should be pretty obvious.

It's still fairly easy to tell who is an idiot and who isn't by /checking someone. It may be harder to discern from the avergae to above average yes, but I'm talking about the people who use starting rings at 90, or level 14 ones, or an Ether Ring on a WAR. The people who are beyond stupid and beyond help. Those are easy to pick it. Quite often you don't even need to /check them to see that they're a window licker. Reading their shouts or comments may often be enough, /sea and check their subjob, and even times just look at their name. If I meet someone named Xxxcloudxgokux, chances are, they're absolutely stupid. Or most drug referencing names, really, figuring out who is stupid isn't impossible, and certainly not even hard. Pretending otherwise is silly.