Fix Housing Megathread

[Jojoya]

lol they normally don't play excessively, they just really want a house at this point. I suggested moving to Spriggan because last time I checked it still had plenty of small plots and they are considering it. But I still think that reducing the invisible timer would be better than nothing.

I definitely agree the length of the current timer is excessive. A length of 2-6 hours would be more than sufficient to accomplish the purpose of the timer, which is to deter house flipping. Two hours is more than enough time for prospective buyers to find out the plot is available and be ready to compete for it, especially with all the housing discords that have been organized to scan for and share newly available plot information with their users.

If your friend wants the house that badly, I hope they do choose to move to Spriggan. Cross world linkshells provide a common chat and you can always world visit to do content together. I know a few players that spend most of their time cross world to do things with their various friends circles across our data center.

[Almagnus1]

So going through a raffle idea again (yes, one of those), here's how I think it should change to address one of the problems with housing: Relos screwing over first time buyers.

So like mentioned previously, houses will keep their random timers, but they will switch to raffle system to award the house. Here's how that works:

• Every 30 minutes after the house comes off timer, it checks if at least one person bought a ticket. If so, the new owner is chosen randomly. If no one has bought a raffle ticket, the house will refresh the raffle window. The remaining raffle window time is displayed
• Anyone new housing owner can buy a raffle ticket as long as they are compliant with the restrictions outlined at https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../housing_land/
• FCs and players are in the same raffle
• A housing relo can only occur if they get a ticket (same costs as currently) and win the raffle
• Anyone who doesn't get the house gets their ticket refunded
• Players can only buy one housing ticket at a time

The main thing I'm trying to figure out a solution to is the need to first clicker, as this allows for a bit fairer way to do it and rewards those that are sticking it out. Time window may need to be adjusted as having a shorter one helps to shut out people that aren't actually there when the house comes to market. The biggest frustration I'm seeing with first time buyers is that the relos have a bit too much "power" in the current system as they are able to take priority over new buyers rather than putting both on equal footing like it is in the real world (arguably first time buyers have it a bit better as they aren't usually dependent upon selling the older property).

It probably needs work, but as Yoshi-P is considering this idea, it's probably a good idea to start figuring out how we can make it suck the least so that way we can guide the dev team with this rather than shutting down any discussion and getting something forced upon us.

[Valfreyja]

Sitting with a friend last night who had been trying to get a house plot for 12 hours+. We discussed several options that are better than the current system.

It was down to three people wanting it. The BS part of it was that one of them got their FC to show up and start trying to buy it. I assume so they could pass it off as a "tenant" thing and give them better odds. Which just seems wrong to me in so many ways.

We talked about options in my FC for this.

First, make it a silent auction. A house comes up for sale, you make a bid. One bid per service account per plot. First highest bidder gets the plot. Sure people with more gil get an advantage. But it comes down to whether they are willing to bid 10 or 20 million gil to get a small housing plot.

The second option was presented by someone in my FC. That being putting it to RNG. The house comes up for sale. Every 18 hours a player can walk up and use the Placard. If the RNG hits, and they have the gil to make the purchase, they get the opportunity to buy it. If not, they have to wait 18 hours for another chance at it.

The current system just fosters animosity between players and encourages harsh feelings when players gang up to all bid on a plot in order to give it to their friend. Or stand around the placard to try and throw off targeting on it.

Edit: As an update, my friend lost the house. The one who got her FC to come and all bid on it for her got it. So one of her friends owns it and now she's a "tenant". Which is honestly the sh******t way of doing this.

The tenant system needs to be changed to prevent stuff like this.

[LaylaTsarra]

Edit: As an update, my friend lost the house. The one who got her FC to come and all bid on it for her got it. So one of her friends owns it and now she's a "tenant". Which is honestly the sh******t way of doing this.
The tenant system needs to be changed to prevent stuff like this.

So her friends bid on it so they could own a private house and share it? The house doesn't belong to her it belongs to the person who bought it. I don't see where she needed to do that she could have simply shared another house one of her friends owned. You can't transfer ownership of a personal house.

[Valfreyja]

The friends bid on it simply so one could give it to her, via the Tenant system.

The ones who don't care about owning a house step in and try to buy it, then pass it off.

So a friend bought it, made the one who actually wanted it a Tenant along with their partner, since it's now listed as "X and X's House" on the Placard, neither of which was the actual owner.

As a tenant they can do the following:
Customization - Adding / Removing / Dyeing Furnishings
Gardening - Planting / Harvesting / Crop Disposal
Stable Tending - Stabling Chocobos.
Orchestrion - Orchestrion operation

So, in short, that is what happened. She got multiple friends who came in that didn't likely care about owning their own house, instead having an Apartment and/or FC room, that stacked things in her favor, and the winner simply made her a Tenant with full access. So in essence, it's "her" house now.

It's why Housing is such a BS system right now.

[Arielen]

The tenant system needs to be changed to prevent stuff like this.

Tenants don't even prevent a house from being autodemoed. They have no true ownership. If the person that owns the house quits, the person it was basically bought for is essentially back to square one. And of course, getting someone a house through the tenancy system doesn't actually give them full rights to it: if there's a falling out, bye bye house. There's nothing wrong with the tenant system in other words.

[Valfreyja]

There is plenty wrong with it when it's exploited like that. It doesn't matter if it's not true ownership. And most are people who play for years, so the auto-demo thing doesn't even matter.

Again, the main issue is that it's an unfair advantage. The system needs to be fixed so that it is something fair for any player. Not simply those with a lot of friends that'd stand around to help them buy it.

[Arielen]

There is plenty wrong with it when it's exploited like that. It doesn't matter if it's not true ownership. And most are people who play for years, so the auto-demo thing doesn't even matter.

Again, the main issue is that it's an unfair advantage. The system needs to be fixed so that it is something fair for any player. Not simply those with a lot of friends that'd stand around to help them buy it.

How is it an 'unfair advantage' that you can share a house with a friend? And I seriously doubt everyone you know has never unsubbed for more than a month and a half.

[Valfreyja]

You aren't paying attention.

The unfair advantage lies in 10 or 15 FC people showing up to buy a plot. Not to legitimately share it. But to just give one of their friends "Tenant" rights, and let the friend own it and do whatever they want.

You act like the one who purchased the plot was actually going to use it. And that's not the case. They only did it to give it to their FC friend to use.

[Jojoya]

First, make it a silent auction. A house comes up for sale, you make a bid. One bid per service account per plot. First highest bidder gets the plot. Sure people with more gil get an advantage. But it comes down to whether they are willing to bid 10 or 20 million gil to get a small housing plot.

The second option was presented by someone in my FC. That being putting it to RNG. The house comes up for sale. Every 18 hours a player can walk up and use the Placard. If the RNG hits, and they have the gil to make the purchase, they get the opportunity to buy it. If not, they have to wait 18 hours for another chance at it.

Silent auction still doesn't solve the supply problem and encourages RMT by players desperate enough to get a house they're willing to pay any price. It could potentially give house flippers more control over the highly desirable plot locations. Wouldn't it be better to solve the supply problem?

The suggestion by your FC member is what players should already be doing. Check the placard. See if you get lucky. Go do other things and try again later if you aren't. If you can only check it once every 18 hours, kiss your chances of getting the house goodbye because someone else will have gotten it before you can check a second time.

If anyone is feeling animosity toward other players over not getting a house, that's a personal anger issue they need to learn to manage. It's a game. Feeling frustrated and disappointed because of a poorly implemented game system is normal. Feeling hatred toward other people, especially those who have nothing to do with creation and implementation of the system, is not.

You aren't paying attention.

The unfair advantage lies in 10 or 15 FC people showing up to buy a plot. Not to legitimately share it. But to just give one of their friends "Tenant" rights, and let the friend own it and do whatever they want.

You act like the one who purchased the plot was actually going to use it. And that's not the case. They only did it to give it to their FC friend to use.

There is no unfair advantage.

About 2 months ago, a house near mine became available. There were 11 players camping the placard with 9 of those players representing 2 different FCs. Who got the house? One of the two solo players camping it (which I was glad to see because that player had been camping for at least an hour before the rest started showing up).

Someone in my FC was competing for a house a couple of weeks ago against 4 other players all from the same FC. Who got the house? The one in my FC. I'm sure the players from the other FC were bitching that she got the house even though they had more people camping the placard.

There is no unfair advantage when it all comes down to RNG. You still have to be the player clicking at the right moment.

As for the house that your friend didn't get, the owner will have to use it at times or the house will demo. Tenant entry does not reset the demo timer. The player who bought it can't just give it to their friend then forget about it.

It will also be actively getting used by other players who haven't gotten lucky enough to purchase their own.

I'm not seeing a problem with that.

The system definitely could stand improvement but that particular complaint you're making is just sour grapes because someone else got lucky instead of your friend.