BIS gear should not come from just one form of content

Currently, there is no best in slot gear for battle classes that is crafted. Granted, HQ heavy darksteel items full of materia are marginally better than similiar dark light items. However. Darksteel items are Much Much harder and more expensive to produce. Then on top of that there is drops from bahamut's coil that are better than darksteel. Because of this, many people, like myself, feel that the time and effort we spent on crafting and gathering wasnt worth the rewards

Now I also understand the other point of view."If someone could buy the best gear, then many people will just buy Gil from gilsellers to buy gear." And "if people can buy the best gear, what's the point of farming dungeons?"

I believe that the problem is that the best in slot gear is only obtained from one form of content. If all of the BIS gear comes from one source of content, then all other content becomes marginalized. I believe that in order to obtain the BIS gear, one should have to participate in multiple different contents, instead of spamming the same dungeon over and over.

For example, the BIS gear for a blm would come be:

Main: Relic obtained from a long quest
Body: obtained from tomes
Pants: bought with GC seals
Belt: crafted with materia
Ring: dropped from a primal

And so on. This would provide an incentive to actually use all the major forms of content in this game.

Funny you offer that counterexample about money because people are buying runs for gear so it's as if that gilselling issue is almost the same just with paying other people to run them.

In general though I wholeheartedly agree with what you have to say here, crafting needs to feel more useful for gear. I would also like to see 1-49 gear that can outclass dungeon loot because it's disheartening to see an HQ materia melded gear piece get instantly replaced by a mere aetherial piece that drops from a bronze chest. A balance should surely be struck, but in general there needs to be gear that can either get close to or surpass certain gear from other content.

Welcome to modern MMOs post WoW where raid gear is always the best, enjoy your stay.

I don't really care for 2 of the biggest available gear sets for all classes come from points. I think that's kind of boring and bogus that it's set up that way. There's also a giant gearset between primals and The Binding Coil missing. The Crystal Tower was supposed to be our entry raid, not binding coil. Which would put that ~ilvl80 stepping you into binding coil from crystal tower, so you can mix between DL and raid drops. You also have a comparable set from crafting (which takes some points to craft). I'm not sure what the plans are with GC's, the rewards currently are pretty lackluster at best, but I have no real desire to obtain my raiding gear from them personally /shrugs options are always nice though.

the biggest problem people are forgetting is the GIANT gap in content that was intended to be AT LAUNCH.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

Welcome to modern MMOs post WoW where raid gear is always the best, enjoy your stay.

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You mean where 4-man ezpz dungeon grind = comparable to the hardest content in the game gear.

Best gear should come from hardest content. But if there was a unsellable material that dropped from a boss from a raid that makes the best gear, that I would agree with. Because you have to be good enough to beat the raid and have a 50 crafting class. But in no way should you be able to buy/sell best gear.

Edit: I guess an example would be like in infinite undiscovery to get the best weapon you had to farm the hardest mob in the last dungeon to get the material then needed max blacksmithing to make it. Made having the weapon just that much better. But later they figured it was too hard and just released a patch so you could buy the mats and it just was stupidly... Stupid. Had best weapon before even walking in last dungeon and just killing everything.

I'm of the opinion that the best gear should be gated behind the hardest content. Else, what is the incentive to do the hardest content? Crafting isn't hard. Farming tomes/seals isn't hard. Why should these produce better gear than something that is hard?

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Originally Posted by dontcare

I'm of the opinion that the best gear should be gated behind the hardest content. Else, what is the incentive to do the hardest content? Crafting isn't hard. Farming tomes/seals isn't hard. Why should these produce better gear than something that is hard?

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Exactly

/10char

Getting a craft to 50 is rather easy in this game so probably why cant make BiS gear.

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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltzkin

You mean where 4-man ezpz dungeon grind = comparable to the hardest content in the game gear.

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So what your saying is, you haven't played WoW since Wrath.

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Originally Posted by dontcare

I'm of the opinion that the best gear should be gated behind the hardest content. Else, what is the incentive to do the hardest content? Crafting isn't hard. Farming tomes/seals isn't hard. Why should these produce better gear than something that is hard?

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I don't think you quite get what I'm saying. What I want is for someone to HAVE to beat the hardest content to get one of the BIS items. People would do the hardest content to get the BIS body pieces or weapons or whatever. I think that crafting and other future additional content would provide less important BIS gear like jewelry.

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Originally Posted by dontcare

I'm of the opinion that the best gear should be gated behind the hardest content. Else, what is the incentive to do the hardest content? Crafting isn't hard. Farming tomes/seals isn't hard. Why should these produce better gear than something that is hard?

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I can see where OP is coming from.
There are other MMOs that splits up the BiS to different raid dungeons or raid that drops recipes which crafts BiS accessories/jewelry whatever you want to call it. We only have one at the moment so it's not feasible.

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Originally Posted by Alzelia

I don't think you quite get what I'm saying. What I want is for someone to HAVE to beat the hardest content to get one of the BIS items. People would do the hardest content to get the BIS body pieces or weapons or whatever. I think that crafting and other future additional content would provide less important BIS gear like jewelry.

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He got what you are saying, and he still thinks that's wrong. All BEST items jewelry or not is behind hardest content. Just because he didn't agree with you doesn't mean he didn't understand you. You do not get any bis piece if you don't complete a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

Welcome to modern MMOs post WoW where raid gear is always the best, enjoy your stay.

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What does WoW have to do with anything? Or was it to reference that they have craftable equivalents to normal mode raid gear? Not for every slot, but there are always a few.

Getting all the crafts to 50 is pretty easy to do because with leves you can get a craft to 50 every day. There is no way that it should make BiS gear. I have every craft to 50 and made a lot of money selling intermediate gear ilvl 55 stuff for about 175% mark up. I make 20-30k at a time but it adds up to millions in the long run and my stuff sells fast because its mid range gear.

Best gear in the game should come from the hardest raid not crafting like it is now its perfectly fine.

Crafting has its place as making starter gear for when you start your raid journey. It also makes lots of gil even with not making the best gear in the game.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Best gear in the game should come from the hardest raid not crafting like it is now its perfectly fine.

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The best gear does come from the hardest content -- atm BCoB. Some T5 weapons are the BiS over Relic +1 -- namely the healer weapons. Most of the Allagan gears are decent and some pieces are BiS that cannot be obtained elsewhere (Tank body, Caster Feet). On the other hand, some of the Allagan gears are absolutely trash; some very specific slots atm don't have any cookie-cutter stats in iLvL90 gears. (Sch head & feet)

We will see what Crystal Tower brings to the game.

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Originally Posted by Alzelia

Currently, there is no best in slot gear for battle classes that is crafted. Granted, HQ heavy darksteel items full of materia are marginally better than similiar dark light items. However. Darksteel items are Much Much harder and more expensive to produce. Then on top of that there is drops from bahamut's coil that are better than darksteel. Because of this, many people, like myself, feel that the time and effort we spent on crafting and gathering wasnt worth the rewards
Now I also understand the other point of view."If someone could buy the best gear, then many people will just buy Gil from gilsellers to buy gear." And "if people can buy the best gear, what's the point of farming dungeons?"

I believe that the problem is that the best in slot gear is only obtained from one form of content. If all of the BIS gear comes from one source of content, then all other content becomes marginalized. I believe that in order to obtain the BIS gear, one should have to participate in multiple different contents, instead of spamming the same dungeon over and over.

For example, the BIS gear for a blm would come be:

Main: Relic obtained from a long quest
Body: obtained from tomes
Pants: bought with GC seals
Belt: crafted with materia
Ring: dropped from a primal

And so on. This would provide an incentive to actually use all the major forms of content in this game.

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The difference is you're rolling in money while the guy doing the actual hard, coordinated content that takes careful planning and execution is making zero gil in profit. In fact, he's losing wealth to repairs.

The guy who is doing Bahamut, unless he sells runs with his guild or levels a craft, will not be able to afford in-game housing, and currently he can't even afford to gear his alts efficiently in Vanya gear because each piece is close to one million gil.

Looking back on my OP, I realize that I really should re-write my argument and start a new thread. I lost focus for my argument and failed to convey the message I actually intended to send.

To sum up what I was actually trying to say: I believe that Best in Slot gear should be obtained through multiple different forms of content. Currently, to the best of my knowledge, all of the Best in Slot gear is obtained through just one form of content: Behemoth. I believe FFXIV would be a better game if Best in Slot gear came from a variety of dungeons and raids and Primals and other content. (I would love to see crafting and the economy as one of these sources, but I can see this causing a lot of issues.) If the Best in Slot gear only comes from one source, then there really is no incentive to pursue any other content. I'd rather have some variety in my gaming instead of grinding the same dungeon over and over.

It's good. crafters are selling lv70 gears for millions of gil but we can get better gears from dungeons.

seeing greedy merchants suffering is my happiness.

I would really like to see things like the highest endgame raids giving out BOP mats that let you craft some BIS gear, at least equivalent to what you'd other get dropped from there.

Some variety in armor choices would be nice...although I suppose that won't really matter as much when they introduce the vanity gear system.

I would love to see a piece or two of best in slot gear come from crafting, but! I think the material for said item should drop from raids.

The item itself I don't really care if it's tradeable or not. I'm not a fan of forcing people to grind up crafting professions (which can be expensive if you don't have gathering, and tedious if you do) just for a BiS piece. I'd like to make sure for my free company. I realize this would mean people could "sell" the stuff... but really that's no different from buying runs, which people already do.

Editted to add: I would also settle for the current highest tier crafted sets to take less tomestones to actually craft so that they're on par with the cost for the Darklight set instead of way over. Basically I want crafting to be useful (whether it be gearing up alts, or making BiS gear). Let me make something I can wear for a while at end game!

To be honest, you will need to compare the Allagan (BC Drops) with your Relic+1 / AF2+1 stuff to decide if they are worth it. They are roughly equal, with different stats, but some of the pieces are superior to your regular AF2+1 stuff. This will be made easier after the 11th when the Database gets merged into Lodestone, making it easier to search out items.

i wouldn't say allagan armor is a problem so much as the massive lack of 70 and 80 content

really, outside of the 2 primal fights the game itself jumps from 60 content to 90 and pretty much everything in between is completely based around one thing, tomestone of philosophy. level 70 loot needs to start coming from level 70 sources instead of 50

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Originally Posted by dontcare

I'm of the opinion that the best gear should be gated behind the hardest content. Else, what is the incentive to do the hardest content? Crafting isn't hard.

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Well, what about crafting something with a drop from the hardest content? Because your suggestion renders crafting useless for the most part. Most people started crafting because FF has a history of being able to craft gear that is comparable to end game drops. The best gear in the game should be obtained by someone who A. Raids the hardest dungeons and B. Has crafting leveled. Raids should drop great gear, but should drop items that allow you to craft even better gear.

There is no point to craft if you can just get the best gear in the game by grinding dungeons. Why would I craft and raid dungeons if all I have to do is raid dungeons. Most people will disagree with me simply because they don't want to have to craft and raid dungeons. But whatever this game is for children anyway.

I agree with this. It baffles my mind that crafting is relatively worthless right now outside of armour pieces that still require you to farm Tomes endlessly to make and only become better than the AF+1 you'll be buying if you're lucky enough to get a successful quadra-meld. Crafters should be able to make something desirable, heck make those desirable pieces require items that can rarely drop from mobs in the new dungeons to at least keep people queuing and also gives some purpose to trash mobs. Or even follow the WoW route of making the more powerful forms of certain items (like belt/bracers/rings etc) only available through crafting, and add grinds to get those recipes.

Also, why not make the rewards from world FATEs slightly more enticing. The Behemoth and Odin stuff looks cool but statswise it's pretty blegh and will likely just gather dust on a retainer until Vanity slots come in.

The make some truly outrageously good items drop from the next tier of Binding Coil, to give people something to aspire toward. I don't know maybe the end boss can drop something to make Relic+2 or something.

I totally agree that BiS gear shouldn't just come from grinding easy content. BUT the most lame part of this whole deal is not just the fact that it all comes from spamming that one dungeon - the most lame part, in my opinion, is the fact that it's mostly just bunched up on a vendor NPC for no reason whatsoever.

Why the heck would you put equipment emblematic of each job, that is also about on par with the best gear in the game, on a single vendor NPC that has them up for trade for easily obtainable trinkets? More so when their (much) lesser counterparts, the AF you get from job quests, are made out to be a big deal in their respective quests even though they aren't, yet these, which actually are pretty damn good, are all just bunched up on this one trader, who has an infinite supply of them for no apparent reason. What? Not only is that lame as hell gameplay-wise (because the only way to get the currency to obtain them is to spam an easy dungeon constantly - and stomach all the waiting due to a most blatantly obvious time sink), but it is also lame as hell lore-wise - lore breaking, even. Why?

The current BIS accessories are crafted/melded.

And you want crafted items better than the highest tier content? Why even DO the content if you have gear better anything else in the game then?

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Originally Posted by Klefth

Why?

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You need to clear the hardest dungeon that has yet to be legitimately cleared to have the best gear in the game. Unless you're dumb and are buying the AF+1 instead of getting your relic+1. Then you really shouldn't be talking. I do think that the Relic +1 is too easy to get.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

You need to clear the hardest dungeon that has yet to be legitimately cleared to have the best gear in the game. Unless you're dumb and are buying the AF+1 instead of getting your relic+1. Then you really shouldn't be talking. I do think that the Relic +1 is too easy to get.

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First off, feel free to check my lodestone before making assumptions on my gear choices and whatnot. Secondly, I've no idea where the bolded part came from, as in no way I've said relic +1 was hard to get (or anything even remotely related to them). Actually, part of a complaint of mine, which for some reason got deleted and netted me a 10 day ban, was the fact that relic +1, which are about on par with the best weapons in the game, only takes waiting, just like the AF2 pieces do. I find it extremely lame that all those things are simply bunched up on a vendor NPC, and suggested that they should instead be placed in lore-friendly content.

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Originally Posted by BlueMage

The current BIS accessories are crafted/melded.

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Actually BiS accessories are allagan and mythology pieces.

I think SWTOR had a nice system. You can get the BiS items from the Raids, however you could also craft BiS gear, but you had to do the content to learn how to craft it.

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Originally Posted by Uveck

Well, what about crafting something with a drop from the hardest content? Because your suggestion renders crafting useless for the most part. Most people started crafting because FF has a history of being able to craft gear that is comparable to end game drops. The best gear in the game should be obtained by someone who A. Raids the hardest dungeons and B. Has crafting leveled. Raids should drop great gear, but should drop items that allow you to craft even better gear.

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It doesn't render crafting useless. Crafting has the ability to create entry level end game raiding gear. Keep BiS gear where it belongs gated behind real content. Crafters have enough ways to price gouge and make gold already.

When we see more end game content you'll see more diversity in gear, and I assume crafters will gain more recipes by the patch. We'll probably see ilvl 90 gear for crafters come 2.2.

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Originally Posted by Alzelia

Currently, there is no best in slot gear for battle classes that is crafted. Granted, HQ heavy darksteel items full of materia are marginally better than similiar dark light items.

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Not only is HQ Darksteel MUCH better then darklight, but that is only one class.

Finally, HQ 9str/9dex accessories ARE BEST IN SLOT. Better then i90 equiv in every aspect

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Originally Posted by Ninjiitstu

Finally, HQ 9str/9dex accessories ARE BEST IN SLOT. Better then i90 equiv in every aspect

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Really? (Serious question, I'm not seeing how, for example, an HQ'd Gryphonskin Ring is going to be better than Allagan Ring of Aiming)

If the answer to the above is yes, I'm going to guess that it's more of an oversight than an intentional design choice, similar to how the Serpent Lieutenant's Bow is better than Ifrit's Bow. It's better that we let them know ahead of time that it'd be nice to have crafting be worth something more than "a harder way to obtain equivalent gear". If you're going to point a single ring that outclasses the ilv90 ring its more likely that that was a design oversight.

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Originally Posted by Kincard

Really? (Serious question, I'm not seeing how, for example, an HQ'd Gryphonskin Ring is going to be better than Allagan Ring of Aiming)

If the answer to the above is yes, I'm going to guess that it's more of an oversight than an intentional design choice, similar to how the Serpent Lieutenant's Bow is better than Ifrit's Bow. It's better that we let them know ahead of time that it'd be nice to have crafting be worth something more than "a harder way to obtain equivalent gear". If you're going to point a single ring that outclasses the ilv90 ring its more likely that that was a design oversight.

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Really. DoW get way more out of it then allagan rings. Even if your trying to max DPS, youd rather take the 4 str hit, and get 5 melds of secondaries.

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Originally Posted by Alzelia

I believe that the problem is that the best in slot gear is only obtained from one form of content. If all of the BIS gear comes from one source of content, then all other content becomes marginalized.

Main: Relic obtained from a long quest
Body: obtained from tomes
Pants: bought with GC seals
Belt: crafted with materia
Ring: dropped from a primal

And so on. This would provide an incentive to actually use all the major forms of content in this game.

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It will also be an amazing incentive to build your character from all angles of the game and let us want to make the most of our character.

I believe that if you required people to 1.) gather a rare item that you have to bring to a quest giver (you can have it between an item shared between bot/mining/fishing) and 2.) craft an item shared by all crafting classes that you had to bring to a quest giver, than you would not have so many people at end game upset about Gil.

Not to mention, you have so many people upset end-game because of the same content being ran over and over and over and over. Give us variety. I admit, this is my biggest pet peeve about the majority of MMOs in today's market.

Does anyone remember EQ2's prismatic quests? I would love something to the level of that. Absolutely love. :D