Take SP out of Gathering

Skill points in Gathering don't work.
Only 0.0000000000000000000001%
of the world population would sit
for this long at there computer to level
that up to 50+, and the ones that do
are watching TV or anything , but there not really
paying attention to the game. It really is
almost like being a bot. But your actually Punishing
Yourself by siting there instead of doing something.

I don't know if you guy's ever plan on making
money with this game but I can guarantee you
that is definitively a game breaker.

Crafting is the same thing. Everyone is watching
TV or playing other games as they craft.

If players are forced to do other things then actually
playin the game to play your game. thats not a good sign

Now that you have tones of players that are way high
in all this stuff there going to be totaly pissed off if you
take it away. So In the end your damned if you do
and your damed if you don't.

Nah. Leave the gathering SP. People is free to watch TV or do whatever else they want while playing...

I'll say an example...i always watched TV while grinding in FFXI. So they should remove the levels from FFXI too because i like watching TV while grinding? After auto-attack is up thhe same will happen here... ^^:

We need some "dislike" button here ^^:

Ever heard of gatherer's fatigue? 150+ successful gathering attempts and you start auto-failing.

Gathering is a game of patience and you can't do it for very long before being punished by the game for it. The true gatherers are the ones who use it for reasons other than grinding anyway.

I much prefer the way WoW does gathering, but then its not a class in that game. :S

I don't mind the slow levelling, what I hate is the crafting or gathering grinding. Boring as hell, with no point really.
Why not create quest for crafter & gatherers where they could level or a new different mini game.

Totally agree with Angstrom...Synth is repetitive, and the SP is unrewarding.That was rectified at some level with the bonus SP from the guild leves but that is gone now...It requires no skill whatsoever and the balance between reward and time consumed is a joke.I mean would you really craft in this game if you were a simple player like us?Just do something or at least answer in this threat that you consider to do something and admit that this whole crafting and gathering thing is a joke...I mean really do you even have game testers??? Gosh.....

No thanks, leave crafting and gathering SP as it is please. I couldn't disagree more with the OP

Oh no one needs to worry about them taking it out.
. If you think this is a bad idea I think you missed out on my point. This game has found its target audience. You.

At this point it would be literal suicide for them to change this, I said this in my original post. The only people left playing this game are the ones that like this system.

This System Like I said is perfect for 0.0000000000000001% of the whole population, unfortunately I don't think thats going to be a big return of money on there investments.

Point is. If they want to make money with this thing. there going to have to make some really big moves. Until they do this duck is dead in the water.

At least if with the 15$ a month fee they provide Netflix in the subscription I think that would be only fair.

I tend not to care about my gathering SP. I go out and gather ITEMS, I couldn't care less whether it gives me SP. Well that was after I reached 38 anyway, which is just under half way to 50 and allows me to scan any node in the game. My needs for iron and silver will get my MIN to 50. BTN is just a gil thing however now my CRP is 50.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

I tend not to care about my gathering SP. I go out and gather ITEMS, I couldn't care less whether it gives me SP. Well that was after I reached 38 anyway, which is just under half way to 50 and allows me to scan any node in the game. My needs for iron and silver will get my MIN to 50. BTN is just a gil thing however now my CRP is 50.

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So you don't care if they take SP away once you get lvl 50 in all 3 gathering skill>?

No I'd like SP to stay because you need some way of stopping someone picking up a pickaxe/hatchet/rod for the first time and getting the best things from grade 5 straight away. You need some form of progression in there otherwise no one would ever gather from a node that isn't of the highest grade. The levelling system solves this problem well. Point is gathering classes aren't classes you should be rushing out to SP and max out on.

If they fixed the SP on fatigue issue and set a minimum of 120 SP per optimal grade node or whatever so that SPing past 42 didn't suck ass I don't think many would complain about the rate of SP.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

No I'd like SP to stay because you need some way of stopping someone picking up a pickaxe/hatchet/rod for the first time and getting the best things from grade 5 straight away. You need some form of progression in there otherwise no one would ever gather from a node that isn't of the highest grade. The levelling system solves this problem well. Point is gathering classes aren't classes you should be rushing out to SP and max out on.

If they fixed the SP on fatigue issue and set a minimum of 120 SP per optimal grade node or whatever so that SPing past 42 didn't suck ass I don't think many would complain about the rate of SP.

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If people wanted to Gather crap for months watching TV to numb out the boredom FF14 would be charging you 15$ a month right now.

fact is, less then 10 000 players think this is fun. And most do cause its still free, Wake up my friend.

Well you can't take away sp from gathering or crafting because they are their own classes and disciples. If you took sp out of crafting/gathering, you'd would either A) have to take sp away from DoW/DoM classes, or B) scrap the idea of crafting/gathering being its own class, going back to xi and every other mmo on the market.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

Well you can't take away sp from gathering or crafting because they are their own classes and disciples. If you took sp out of crafting/gathering, you'd would either A) have to take sp away from DoW/DoM classes, or B) scrap the idea of crafting/gathering being its own class, going back to xi and every other mmo on the market.

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Crafting makes sense to have some kind of XP system involved. Crafting should be the Ultimate Grind if there is any. Even harder then it is now. (My thread is not about Crafting at all. Gathering only)

Gathering on the other hand feels really weird. I mean Gathering plants and cutting wood, fishing is something everyone living in a Medieval world would automatically know and be really good at even before you took control of your Avatar.
Or they would be Dead even before you took control of them.

Gathering should be what helps new players as the simple thing a starting player can do to grow himself financialy to compete in a economies with players that been around for over 3 years. First thing out of the gate's You pick your First gathering skill and off you go to gather something the game tips you off on could make you a little dough to buy your first weapon and Armour set. Some thing to always fall to when times get tuff and the money is not flowing in. Not the Elite thing like it is now.

Gathering in this game is exclusive to the Most Hard Core cause no one wants to do it. The thing the most people do in RL and NPC in the game do to feed there family is the most exclusive thing only a tiny hand full even bother to do. Its the Bread and butter of survival. See how it makes absolutely no sense at all. Resource should be Flooding the market.

Its crafted goods that need to be rare and valued.
It just dosent feel like a real breathing world. It makes no sense to 90 % of the MMo Comunity. How can you live and play in a game that makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Angstrom

Oh no one needs to worry about them taking it out.
. If you think this is a bad idea I think you missed out on my point. This game has found its target audience. You.

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So the sole purpose of this entire thread was to troll people?
*heads into Angstrom's profile and clicks a few buttons*
Welcome to my "ignore list". I hope you're happy.

Gathering professions are classes in this game, as such they rank up and progress just like any others.

I think the SP needs to be adjusted for Gathering to put it on the same level as crafting and combat. I mean hell you only get 2 leves for each camp for gathering from what I've seen as opposed to 3 for combat. Add into that two types of fatigue and already sub-par SP and you can see the system is merely flawed.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

So the sole purpose of this entire thread was to troll people?
*heads into Angstrom's profile and clicks a few buttons*
Welcome to my "ignore list". I hope you're happy.

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Sorry I only realized this game was doomed after re-reading and thinking about what I was saying and what it implied.
Its sad I wish it could have been otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Gathering professions are classes in this game, as such they rank up and progress just like any others.

I think the SP needs to be adjusted for Gathering to put it on the same level as crafting and combat. I mean hell you only get 2 leves for each camp for gathering from what I've seen as opposed to 3 for combat. Add into that two types of fatigue and already sub-par SP and you can see the system is merely flawed.

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Agree with this, gathering SP needs to be increased and I also think that harsher restrictions should be placed on grades higher than your rank.

I would go as far as to say that a gatherer shouldn't be able to gather from a grade not designed for his level at all.

Add some kind of consistency and reasoning behind wanting to level up and add some decent high rank fish for god sakes.

There are a lot of different people with a lot of different playing styles. I know most days, when I come from work, I just want to do something mindless for a few hours. Crafting while watching TV works perfectly for me. If I had to give my full attention to the game every time I played, then I probably wouldn't still be playing.

Honestly, I think the biggest problem with gathering right now is the lack of SP. You already get less sp per try than in either crafting classes or battle classes and then you have to contend with the hidden gather's fatigue and regular fatigue. Plus it can be extremely taxing on the inventory with all the varieties of quality.

But, with that said, a rank 50 gatherer is a player that shows true dedication. They are also probably pretty wealthy, being as gathering can be an extremely good way to make money.

Just because it isn't your playing style doesn't mean it needs to go away.

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Originally Posted by Angstrom

If people wanted to Gather crap for months watching TV to numb out the boredom FF14 would be charging you 15$ a month right now.

fact is, less then 10 000 players think this is fun. And most do cause its still free, Wake up my friend.

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If you don't like gathering, don't gather. It's not rocket science. You don't have to enjoy every class in the game. I couldn't stand playing WHM or BRD in FFXI for example, didn't mean SE should have given me auto level 75 so I could have the benefits without having to rank it up. You can't have your cake and eat it.

No one is forcing you to do everything in an MMO, you aren't forced to play every piece of content or even like it. No one plays an MMO because they want to gather items, I highly doubt gathering is the reason the game did poorly at launch. To suggest this is absurd.

Fact is some people like gathering or crafting, some don't. Some people like PUG, some don't. The ones who don't tend not to play the class, not bitch and cry about it not being perfect for them. I don't bitch and cry that PUG can't shoot arrows and demand SE allow them to use bows because that's retarded. I simply don't play the class. I play one that I do like instead.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

If you don't like gathering, don't gather. It's not rocket science. You don't have to enjoy every class in the game. I couldn't stand playing WHM or BRD in FFXI for example, didn't mean SE should have given me auto level 75 so I could have the benefits without having to rank it up. You can't have your cake and eat it.

No one is forcing you to do everything in an MMO, you aren't forced to play every piece of content or even like it. No one plays an MMO because they want to gather items, I highly doubt gathering is the reason the game did poorly at launch. To suggest this is absurd.

Fact is some people like gathering or crafting, some don't. Some people like PUG, some don't. The ones who don't tend not to play the class, not bitch and cry about it not being perfect for them. I don't bitch and cry that PUG can't shoot arrows and demand SE allow them to use bows because that's retarded. I simply don't play the class. I play one that I do like instead.

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Ok then, let me say that Gathering is not implemented in the game in a way that makes any sense. Even if its not why players left. Its easy to see how badly it sticks out like a sore thumb.

The game was rejected by the majority of the MMoRPG population cause to many things don't add up in making a real breathing fantasy world. Thats what fun about this genre.

You can stick in a bunch of mechanics for class's crafting up the wazzou camps all over the map, but without careful thought of what should be where and why it is the way it is, then no ones going to belive in your world.

Look at good literature for example. Its good cause you can belive it you can visualize yourself in that fantasy world being the Hero yourself. If there is a Fundamental thing that makes or break a Virtual world It has to be this.

I only realized this was my opinion of the game as I posted in this thread. To me its a big flaw to FF14. I think it explains why so many have walked away.

I'm not saying I have absolute truth and know the Magic formula.
I have a opinion that if they want to make this game successful The world needs to feel real and that starts with game mechanics making sense, and finding there right place in the order of things.

Gathering shouln't be the hardess thing to max out. Truthfuly all avatars should start with one gathering skill maxed out, why? cause it just makes sense.

If you had your way we'd all start with every class maxed out, because "it just makes sense". Do you really think someone experienced with a sword who can slay giant beats could suddenly struggle to defeat a marmot because he's using an axe? Do you really think it would take more skill for a carpenter to make a half mask from one type of wood than another?

The game failed because it was released with a horrendous UI, a battle system few people like, there was barely any content and the SP system was disliked. Not because you can't take your rank 1 miner to Halatali and dig up gold like candy.

I like gathering, its very relaxing heading out to Coethas and listening to the music and doing a spot of gathering, I would rather they didn't touch the sp other than adding in grade 6 mines and trees

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Originally Posted by Angstrom

Gathering shouln't be the hardess thing to max out. Truthfuly all avatars should start with one gathering skill maxed out, why? cause it just makes sense.

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That doesn't make any sense either. Why would they have a maxed skill? Not all adventurers may have even ever tried gathering in their life.

Ranking up and gaining SP makes perfect sense. Someone who just picked up a pickaxe for the first time is not as experienced as someone who's been mining for years, even in the real world. There are things you learn, tricks of the trade, you know what to look for and how to get it.

Also why don't you go tell real fishermen that it takes absolutely no skill and a child who picks up a fishing rod is just as good as the people who compete in those pro tournaments.

I agree that it shouldn't be the hardest thing to max out, it should be equally difficult.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

If you had your way we'd all start with every class maxed out, because "it just makes sense". Do you really think someone experienced with a sword who can slay giant beats could suddenly struggle to defeat a marmot because he's using an axe? Do you really think it would take more skill for a carpenter to make a half mask from one type of wood than another?

The game failed because it was released with a horrendous UI, a battle system few people like, there was barely any content and the SP system was disliked. Not because you can't take your rank 1 miner to Halatali and dig up gold like candy.

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the ui lag was definately as killer for alot of people at the begining
as time goes on content is #1 on that list thats making people shy away, the ui isnt even an issue for 99% of the people now and those still using it as an excuse are those not playing it who stillt hink it lags like day 1

but its right, gathering is fine, sure an sp increase would be nice

but at the end of the day, dont look at SP hit per swingm look at it per node

sure i get 80 per hit, but at 8 hits thats 640 sp per tree. or when i get 3 swings i get 250 per, thats 750 sp per tree...

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the ui isnt even an issue for 99% of the people now and those still using it as an excuse are those not playing it who stillt hink it lags like day 1

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The UI is still horrendous, its still server side and much laggier than most current gen MMO's and most importantly it is still designed with the PS3 in mind, the pc version should have its own UI completely serpate from the PS3 one.

Obviously this isn't the thread to be discussing this though, just felt that I should point out that the UI is still teribad.

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but at the end of the day, dont look at SP hit per swingm look at it per node

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Thats fine for botanist and miner but fishing isn't really the same, besides we should be looking at how long it takes to kill a monster vs how long it takes to gather.

Mining 8 times on a node is much much much longer than it takes to kill one monster on a battle class.

They should be comparitive, say if it takes me 1 mins to gain 100 sp as a battle class then it should be similar on a gathering class.

First Id like to take the opportunity to thanks everyone who took the time to post there opinion.

Thank you. I appreciate it.

If theres 50 leves to knowing how to cast wizardry spells as a master.
Then there is only 15 levels to learning how to be a descent fisherman.
Or you could just hand out way more xp every nod whatever..

The interface was a big problem I agree. but can you honestly say this game
gels well together? I honestly can't imagine how such a world could even exist
even if it is fantasy. And that would explain the General WTF? a huge majority of
players have expressed.

Guild leve's? Some kind of communist system side by side with a open free player economies?
Player Company's Who the hell is making this up? What has any of this have to do with
Final Fantasy?

I mean at least there should be some kind of tensions between the Capitalist Merchants and the Communist Adventuring guild no?
I know there would be here where I live on this planet.

I'm glad giants Axe wielding marauders feel they can live side by side with such people with such huge diference of thoughts on how the world should be.

Id sure love to know the lore of how that has come to pass.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Thats fine for botanist and miner but fishing isn't really the same, besides we should be looking at how long it takes to kill a monster vs how long it takes to gather.

Mining 8 times on a node is much much much longer than it takes to kill one monster on a battle class.

They should be comparitive, say if it takes me 1 mins to gain 100 sp as a battle class then it should be similar on a gathering class.

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1) it isnt the same as fishing, BUT with fishing you have 10 grades not 5 so you have options at the end

2) mining 8 times gives you a TON of items
fighting 1 mob doesnt, big difference, in gathering SP isnt the only goal, the farming of items in itself is alot more massive and is a tradeoff

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Originally Posted by Xenor

If you don't like gathering, don't gather.

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Well said, Xenor.

The OP may think that only 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 people will enjoy gathering. I disagree. And not just because there are only about 7,000,000,000 people currently alive in the world. Also because every server has some level 50 gatherers. Those people clearly like it. There are entire websites dedicated to gathering in FFXIV. Those people clearly like it.

Just because the OP doesn't like gathering does not mean that no one does. If you don't like it, don't play it. But your opinion is not shared by everyone in the world, no matter how many zeros you type.

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Originally Posted by Angstrom

Guild leve's? Some kind of communist system side by side with a open free player economies?
. . .
I mean at least there should be some kind of tensions between the Capitalist Merchants and the Communist Adventuring guild no?

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I'm confused. How are adventurer's guilds communist? I get my own rewards, and get to use them however I want. That's free market.

And keep in mind that Communist and free market economies exist side by side in the real world. So even if Adv Guilds were Communist -- which again, I don't see how they are -- I'm not sure how that's inconsistent with having Market Wards.

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Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

I'm confused. How are adventurer's guilds communist? I get my own rewards, and get to use them however I want. That's free market.

And keep in mind that Communist and free market economies exist side by side in the real world. So even if Adv Guilds were Communist -- which again, I don't see how they are -- I'm not sure how that's inconsistent with having Market Wards.

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Then what is it? a adventuring Union? Where do the Cards come from? Who is paying for everyone to do the same Leve's every 36 houres? why do camps have massive teleport Crystals protected by 2 npc a tent and a knee high fence?
Why can I pick how many stars my leve will be. It just go's on and on.

I know they are hubs. but who owns them? Who the hell made the's Teleport Crystals. Don't you think something as powerfull as that would get stolen out in the middle of nowhere protected by 2 guys in a tent? Don't you think they would have built better living quarters considering there going to be spendin the rest of there life there.

I understand all this stuff is just there to make the game a game.

It's just a bunch of mechanics of a mini game with no reason to belive it has anything to do with a world i'm trying to Imagine myself in.

I think maybe you misunderstand the word "Communist."

"Communist" refers to a system in which there are no private property rights, and goods are distributed by a central authority ("from each according to his means, to each according to his needs.") Do you have a different definition?

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Originally Posted by Angstrom

Then what is it? a adventuring Union?

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No, it's an Adventurer's Guild. The definition of "Guild" is an association of people in the same trade or craft. It's got nothing to do with Communism.

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Where do the Cards come from?

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The Adv Guild. So what? Newspapers have classified ads for jobs. Does that make all newspapers Communist? It's got nothing to do with property rights. If anything, the fact that you can choose which jobs you do makes it a free market system.

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Who is paying for everyone to do the same Leve's every 36 houres?

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I honestly don't know. I would imagine it's whoever wants them done. Whether that's private individuals or the Adventurer's Guild or the government, I don't know. But either way, that doesn't make them Communist.

All democratic governments pay individuals and entities to perform certain tasks that they want done. Like the military, or the DMV, or people who build roads. That doesn't make them Communist. The fact that you're paid for performing those tasks makes them not Communist. (If you were required to do them, and you weren't paid for them, that might be more like Communism.)

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why do camps have massive teleport Crystals protected by 2 npc a tent and a knee high fence?

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Again, no idea. And no idea how teleport crystals make them Communist.

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Why can I pick how many stars my leve will be. It just go's on and on.

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Huh? Are you suggesting that in a free economy, you won't be able to pick how many stars you'll run your leves at? That makes absolutely no sense to me. If anything, that would be less democratic.

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I know they are hubs. but who owns them? Who the hell made the's Teleport Crystals. Don't you think something as powerfull as that would get stolen out in the middle of nowhere protected by 2 guys in a tent?

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Well, at least you're veering towards the right track with this one, since you're talking about ownership of property. But I don't know who owns the crystals. Who do you think owns them?

If you don't like to gather, don't gather.
Lord knows the game already suffers a legion of R50 crafters who don't gather a ****ing thing except battle mats.

Glad OP has no control of this game. If you don't like gathering, don't gather. With the exception of gathering fatigue the system is fine.

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Originally Posted by Vesper

Glad OP has no control of this game. If you don't like gathering, don't gather. With the exception of gathering fatigue the system is fine.

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here, here, O and no endgame gear /wrists :P