I'm done with Titan.

There is not one MMORPG that I have played with a boss this frustrating, I have never looked down on someone for not being up to par on gear nor do I expect anyone to have full Darklight, as I myself don't have it yet. But when you queue up for Titan (HM) with a level 18 Bracelet and have 2.5k HP..

As I have said in others posts and threads, the boss isn't the main issue it's the community. Well this boss is anti-fun and it has so many bullcrap abilities that just make me furious, why the hell do his plumes stack? - That in itself is the main thing that I hate about this boss, the plumes are actually large in size and then they stack? I can handle one, but when you get hit by 3? wtf, the thing that makes this boss even worse is getting hit by server side lag, even to others I have been out of the plume and I've started casting my next spell then I'll just randomly get killed. I've seen people drag dead on the floor for the server to catch up where they were client side, how is that even fair. Instant kill mechanics are not fun, nor are they fair if you're not lucky enough to live in a area with amazing internet.

This boss just makes me so angry as I know his pattern, I know what to do in every phase, I set goals for MMORPG's, simply so I don't get bored and quit, my goal is my Relic, and this boss is in the way. I am so damn close to just buying it so I can continue with my goals, and really what does that teach me? Nothing. But currently all I'm getting is angry and games are meant to be relaxing, not rage inducing.

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Originally Posted by Animation

But currently all I'm getting is angry and games are meant to be relaxing, not rage inducing.

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I think games like Super Meat Boy and I Wanna Be The Guy would like a word with you.

This game, to me, subtly reinforces the idea of creating your own groups for content, particularly endgame stuff. Your peers are not the brightest of the bunch, and they never will be. Ironically, this is for reasons very similar to what I quoted from you. If you fancy yourself sensible on the matter, take the time to form your own group for stuff. Or perhaps find others who are like you and join them in an LS or FC. It's extra work, but the payoff is typically far less stressful and exponentially rewarding.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

I think games like Super Meat Boy and I Wanna Be The Guy would like a word with you.

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I play Super Meat Boy when I'm angry, I enjoy that game. :/

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Originally Posted by Animation

I play Super Meat Boy when I'm angry, I enjoy that game. :/

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Oh no doubt, I love the game. Doesn't change how angry it had made me while playing a number of the levels though lol. A sort of... angry fun. Along the lines of playing old/retro games, but having fun with them. Punishing and borderline infuriating, but still memorable.

This is what you get with the FATE system. People are just zerging to lv 50 with no clue about how to play or how to gear.

The question is... Why are you still using DF? By this point you're trying to get the best weapon in the game and don't have a group of people you group up with to do stuff on the same server? Tsk tsk

Well, if you're still on trial don't pay when it asks and wait for a fix, that is... if they do ever fix the server side issues? Only thing after titan is farming, more titan and farming, or coil zzz first few turns so don't push your patience.

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Originally Posted by makii

This is what you get with the FATE system. People are just zerging to lv 50 with no clue about how to play or how to gear.

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The FATE system is not responsible for it. The players themselves are. Pointing fingers at anyone/thing else is pointless, given that the player feels no obligation to learn period, be it uncertainty, ignorance, or just not giving a damn.

Heck, if they were forced to dungeon their way to 50, it STILL wouldn't make players learn how to play or equip their characters better. If someone is not able or willing to put in the time to do something, they won't. Ignorance about the matter is fine, because it usually means eventual change. It's the other sorts that are a problem. Either way though, everyone else has to deal with them until these players change.

Lol u aint the only 1, i myself have tried pugs and premades and neither seems to work i just gave up at this point.Its not that im not good, i know everything about the fight and what to do, is to find other players geared properly and know what to do as well. As for now i'll just use my myth tomes to buy myth gear no sense in keeping these tomes lol cause i cant seem to find the right team to run with to get past him.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

The FATE system is not responsible for it. The players themselves are. Pointing fingers at anyone/thing else is pointless, given that the player feels no obligation to learn period, be it uncertainty, ignorance, or just not giving a damn.

Rest sniped

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Because people always want a quick fix, alot of people refuse to do work and just want results. it's the reason why RMT will never go away because to many lazy, sad people buy gill that keeps them here. so leveling as fast as possible to 50 is something very common. it was the same way in FFXI and any MMO that gives the option, So with the FATE system it's an easy option to level without learning roles. as opposed to someone doing dungeons mainly because in the higher ones you HAVE to know your role to get through it.

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Originally Posted by makii

This is what you get with the FATE system. People are just zerging to lv 50 with no clue about how to play or how to gear.

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More to the point, this is what you get when it's easy to level and don't have iLvl requirements on dungeons.

Hopefully they get the server side lag sorted out. It can't help general latency when the servers are under stress. At least on my server, this is certainly the case during prime time.

Of course, lag aside, it's going to be hilarious hearing from the people who meet iLvl on dungeons and still fail due to lack of skill. :D

I hope they make this a mandatory i70 fight when they add that :/

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Originally Posted by Volcano

Because people always want a quick fix, alot of people refuse to do work and just want results. it's the reason why RMT will never go away because to many lazy, sad people buy gill that keeps them here. so leveling as fast as possible to 50 is something very common. it was the same way in FFXI and any MMO that gives the option, So with the FATE system it's an easy option to level without learning roles. as opposed to someone doing dungeons mainly because in the higher ones you HAVE to know your role to get through it.

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If only that were really the case :/

You really think those people that are in lv10+ gear know what they're doing to be helpful to a group in HM primal fights? I have no doubts that they know what they're doing to get people to carry them through it though, no matter the amount of tries it takes lol.

Seriously, they had to have progressed through all of the (mandatory) dungeons to get to where they are. So they had to have had some decent exposure to how to do things as a group, given the difficulty of the latter half of them. I'm pretty sure you (as well as the rest of us) wouldn't be very confident in how reliable they are for HM fights. This is why I mentioned that the FATE system is not to blame, it's the players themselves. There's no need to defend them.

All these Titan rage threads.. I guess I should count myself lucky. I am still gathering tombstones from AK and CM, and re training myself in DD and healing with DD. Tanking is next on the to do list.. and gathering.. and crafting... and stocking up on Lalafail souls, Cat pelts, Elezen organs...

Damnit need more time (>_<

I'm sure you already know this, but the plumes stack because people are stacking, that is the reason why. As you pointed out, one alone will not kill you; when people stack. The fight is (after the gear check) about positioning and a bit of coordination, as well as being on your game and understanding your class. You're right that FATE zerging does not teach you any of these things, but as mentioned, players should take it upon themselves to figure things out if they haven't already before even looking at doing Titan, much less the other primals.

I wish people would stop calling foul on the fight because they can't do it, or the group they're with can't do it. There are no promises that even a premade group will do Titan flawlessly, but it does give you a static group to work with IF everyone in the group doesn't give up after 3 attempts. The fight is fine; individuals may mess up (getting knocked off), but it is generally the larger portion of the group that does (stacking pools and trapping people), making it far harder.

I'm aware latency and the animation/casting bar bug/check-in system isn't great and makes Titan far worse, however in isolation the fight is fine, maybe a little hard and intense, but otherwise doable. The problem is either the infrastructure, which I think a lot of people agree on, or the player problem, where some people just aren't ready for the encounter (for whatever reason).

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Originally Posted by Austin

The question is... Why are you still using DF? By this point you're trying to get the best weapon in the game and don't have a group of people you group up with to do stuff on the same server? Tsk tsk

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I've never really been one to join clans or whatever, I've always been a solo player. I don't like to harass people by shouting..

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

You really think those people that are in lv10+ gear know what they're doing to be helpful to a group in HM primal fights? I have no doubts that they know what they're doing to get people to carry them through it though, no matter the amount of tries it takes lol.

Seriously, they had to have progressed through all of the (mandatory) dungeons to get to where they are. So they had to have had some decent exposure

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This may be the case if they took out the join a dungeon already in progress, but you are wrong. They don't have to know, they just have to get lucky. I joined one already in progress (story) where they were 1/2 through fighting the end boss. Got credit even though I didn't do anything since I was locked out of the fight

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Originally Posted by makii

This is what you get with the FATE system. People are just zerging to lv 50 with no clue about how to play or how to gear.

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The FATE system has nothing to do with how competent a player is at their individual class, people are simply scapegoating FATEs as the reason why there is so much incompetence among players, and you can't really knock people for doing FATEs to level when there is little to no incentive to do dungeons anyway.

I leveled my Bard to 50 doing FATEs, I've somehow managed to get a relic weapon and down Titan numerous times a day, but no I'm a terrible player because I leveled doing FATEs right?

titan himself isn't really the problem at all.
it's the induced 300ms server lag making it artificially more difficult than it really is

I can't count the number of people that have left groups thinking they are lagging out when that's just how it is

and really, asking people to learn to just deal with everything being 1/3 second out of sync with what your visually seeing is not something that most can cope with

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Originally Posted by Alish

The FATE system has nothing to do with how competent a player is at their individual class, people are simply scapegoating FATEs as the reason why there is so much incompetence among players

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I have to disagree on this. The FATE system does have something to do with it, it encourages player laziness which when they get to actual hard content, they can't deal with it. Every MMO has to be learned how to play properly and if you don't take the time to learn because of *easy* leveling, that is as much the players fault as it is the team that enabled everyone to do it IMO.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

I have to disagree on this. The FATE system does have something to do with it, it encourages player laziness which when they get to actual hard content, they can't deal with it. Every MMO has to be learned how to play properly and if you don't take the time to learn because of *easy* leveling, that is as much the players fault as it is the team that enabled everyone to do it IMO.

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As I said in my edit, I leveled my Bard to 50 doing FATEs. I've got a couple dozen Titan clears and a relic weapon in my hand, does the way I level indicate how good or bad I am at this game?

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Originally Posted by Alish

As I said in my edit, I leveled my Bard to 50 doing FATEs. I've got a couple dozen Titan clears and a relic weapon in my hand, does the way I level indicate how good or bad I am at this game?

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Does the way you level indicate how well joeXXX or maryYYY can cope with the mechanics of hard content when they speed ran to 50, have poor gear, can't play their class properly, barely even been in team play where they expected the party to carry them through, never bothered with leveling GC because it was too much "work" for them, never been in a guildhest, don't know when to DPS and when to let the tank get agro back, don't know how to raise in combat as a WHM (yes I actually ran into this lol). I really can keep going on. You are not everyone else nor am I you either ;)

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Originally Posted by makii

This is what you get with the FATE system. People are just zerging to lv 50 with no clue about how to play or how to gear.

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if they're able to Q for hardmode titan they've done all of the story content already. the FATE system isn't making these players ignorant, they're simply that way naturally. i still don't understand why people feel like FATEs need to be the scapegoat for every problem that rises up within the community. what are you going to blame if they were to just remove fates? bad players exist in every MMO, it's not the fault of a game's systems.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

Does the way you level indicate how well joeXXX or maryYYY can cope with the mechanics of hard content when they speed ran to 50, have poor gear, can't play their class properly, barely even been in team play where they expected the party to carry them through, never bothered with leveling GC because it was too much "work" for them, never been in a guildhest, don't know when to DPS and when to let the tank get agro back, don't know how to raise in combat as a WHM (yes I actually ran into this lol). I really can keep going on. You are not everyone else nor am I you either ;)

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It doesn't seem like a FATE problem now then does it? It sounds like an individual issue to me.

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Originally Posted by Animation

Stuff

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Why do you rely on the duty finder to kill a boss that's challenging? Are you incapable of making friends, finding a LS, finding a FC, or forming some type of static/community on your server?

Make a group, join a group, kick anyone in bad gear, kick anyone constantly being hit, and keep doing it until you get 7 other competent players. Also, you reduce your chances of killing titan by 60% or more by doing it in DF with 2 tanks(completely useless) and without 3 healers(makes the fight MUCH easier).

Why do threads like this exist? "I QUEUE UP AND GET BADS AND THE GAME SUCKS CAUSE EVERYONE IS BAD". Why can't you make friends? If you could kill one of the most difficult bosses in the game, and get a relic using anonymous match making via duty finder, this would not be a game worth playing.

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Originally Posted by Alish

It doesn't seem like a FATE problem now then does it? It sounds like an individual issue to me.

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But fates promote quick leveling where they don't even have to worry about playing, or learning their job. With fates, learning your job is not necessary. People simply bypass everything in the game because the developers let them, for the most part. When everyone was "zerging" to end game content with everyone else, they never learned how to even play because they didn't have to learn.

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Originally Posted by Animation

As I have said in others posts and threads, the boss isn't the main issue it's the community. Well this boss is anti-fun and it has so many bullcrap abilities that just make me furious, why the hell do his plumes stack? - That in itself is the main thing that I hate about this boss, the plumes are actually large in size and then they stack? I can handle one, but when you get hit by 3? wtf, the thing that makes this boss even worse is getting hit by server side lag, even to others I have been out of the plume and I've started casting my next spell then I'll just randomly get killed. I've seen people drag dead on the floor for the server to catch up where they were client side, how is that even fair. Instant kill mechanics are not fun, nor are they fair if you're not lucky enough to live in a area with amazing internet.

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Plumes will one-shot you in the final phase anyway.
You're going to need to learn to avoid them! Everybody has at least a 0.3 second of latency. Lag is not an excuse, the fights have been designed with this in mind just like 1.0 fights were.

Each time Titan jumps the arena gets smaller and it is simply not viable run around like a lunatic in the end as the entire platform will be saturated in plumes!

In the final phase, stack on top of each other straight away in the middle to survive Titan's 6 Tumults. Plumes pop straight after, as they all spawn in the middle yu can avoid them easily!

Learn when plumes pop:

Before Jump #1: No plumes
Before Jump #2: After each Tumult
BeforeBefore Jump #3: After each Landslide
Before Jump #4 (Heart): After each Landslide
Final: After 1st of the two Tumults and after the second Mountain buster (Image calls it Tableflip).

Here's a handy-dandy image!


http://i.imgur.com/UbacDrh.gif

If you're with a group of scrubs who don't know when the plumes are coming, make a macro to let them know!

/p Plumes incoming! [Let's move!] <se.8>


Fact hour bonus!
Plumes are actually from an ability called "Weight of the land" and aren't plumes at all.

It's not impossible.
Strap on a pair.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

But fates promote quick leveling where they don't even have to worry about playing, or learning their job. With fates, learning your job is not necessary. People simply bypass everything in the game because the developers let them, for the most part. When everyone was "zerging" to end game content with everyone else, they never learned how to even play because they didn't have to learn.

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this isn't a new thing for MMO's -- leveling in most games is just as mindless of an endeavor as grinding fates is. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out these MMO classes - you can learn one in a day, easily. you're still using your abilities to kill things during FATEs -- same as questing. dungeons do teach you a bit about teamwork, but as is apparent, people are still going to make it to endgame not having a clue.. even with the forced story dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

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You're still implying everyone that levels with FATEs have no idea what they're doing when they get to cap. I'd also like to add as soon as someone turns 50, any form of progression in the game is tied to group content. Cape Westwind, Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium are essentially tutorials to get you ready for end game, they're not very hard and kind of get you primed and give you a better understanding of what your actual role will be.

FATEs in no way shape or form determine how quickly someone will grasp and understand how to play their respective roles, the game even forces you to clear dungeons to progress your story line, you WILL be forced to group up whether you like it or not so how you level doesn't really matter at this point.

I can't wait for Titan extreme

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Originally Posted by Stormsoul

this isn't a new thing for MMO's -- leveling in most games is just as mindless of an endeavor as grinding fates is. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out these MMO classes - you can learn one in a day, easily. you're still using your abilities to kill things during FATEs -- same as questing. dungeons do teach you a bit about teamwork, but as is apparent, people are still going to make it to endgame not having a clue.. even with the forced story dungeons.

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I know they will, but I couldn't help but comment when a poster said fates have absolutely nothing to do with bad people at endgame as it is just an enabler to let people playing poorly keep playing poorly, just be faster at it hehehe

There is no easy cure for the "i want it now with no work involved" people. Those people exist everywhere.

Fortunately I have a great FC where we can all play as we wish with lots of tanks and healers. Not too hard to get what needs to be done finished.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

I know they will, but I couldn't help but comment when a poster said fates have absolutely nothing to do with bad people at endgame as it is just an enabler to let people playing poorly keep playing poorly, just be faster at it hehehe

There is no easy cure for the "i want it now with no work involved" people. Those people exist everywhere heheh

Fortunately I have a great FC where we can all play as we wish with lots of tanks and healers. Not too hard to get what needs to be done finished.

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You're in some serious denial. Please stop lying to yourself. :p

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Originally Posted by Alish

As I said in my edit, I leveled my Bard to 50 doing FATEs. I've got a couple dozen Titan clears and a relic weapon in my hand, does the way I level indicate how good or bad I am at this game?

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This is an age old discussion and personally I feel it has very little to do with how fast you exp. But there is some merit to it, though its not in speed of exp but in the situation of exp, anyone who think its strictly speed based is nothing short of pants on their head tarded. Anywho, Basically theres roughly 3 types of MMO players.

1) Those who will be good at any job they play regardless of how fast they exp to 50. This is due to them putting research into the job prior or just being quick learners.

2) Those who will be terrible at a job they play regardless of how slow or fast they exp to 50. This is mostly due to the "Its my 12.95" syndrome and vehement laziness and lack of ability to research or look at constructive criticism or advice as anything but raging insults from elitists.

3) Those who could be terrible at level 50 due to never getting a chance to learn their roles at level 50, and getting a good flow down, which would have been solved by being in a situations heavily reliant on their job and the mechanics of the game.

And frankly, I think the population is about 75% "Bad will be bad", 15% "Good", and 10% "Middle ground". Where the middle ground being Option 3. What it boils down too is there are a lot of people who play MMOs and just simply do not care how much of a detriment they are to others cause they play for many a reason, relaxing, they enjoy MMOs, or something else. When most of us think MMO, we think playing with others, Gear, so forth... while I don't agree with the types who gimp it from 1-50 and continue to due so, I see their reasonings, and while I wish they'd just go play an offline game so they stop causing wipes they have every right to enjoy the game as i do.

regardless, those types will be bad at the game no matter how slow or boring the exp is because the start, the key to learning your job is the actual want to learn your job. Without the want, there is no learning. So no amount of slow boring exp has never been a means to learn your job... If anything SE needs to make dungeons more appealing 1-49 so people will be encouraged to do them. So while that 75% will still be awful, we can encourage the last 10% to learn their jobs in places like Qarn lol.

Since it was mentioned, Qarn and Cutter's Cry are basically the idiot killer dungeons. Qarn especially, but Cutter's Cry's first boss can be a nightmare with bad players. Qarn teaches you positioning mechanics (I think the final boss has more mechanics than anything save the HM Primals) and Cutter's Cry is when the baby gloves are taken off in difficulty.

I really wish they had been required. Instead they're optional and I know many people skip them.

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Originally Posted by Alish

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Part 1

No, I am implying that people who level in fates quickly may not fully understand what they are capable of for end game as they are leveling so quickly, they may not have time (or care) to learn how to use abilities that may save them some headache at end game content. Leveling your main quickly will not get (for example) the WHM swiftcast so they can instantly raise someone that goes down unless they also quickly leveled thm as well. They may not even think of it or even know about it. Is it necessary? No. Can it make life a little easier at endgame? Good chance it might. Leveling quickly in fates doesn't teach mnk or drg positioning either. You just whack on everything until its dead. It will also not get you geared better from "optional" dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Alish

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Part2

I've found (generally speaking) that many people who "rush" to end game as fast as humanly possible don't care about doing anything except the bare minimum. Anything that doesn't get them to 50 the fastest is thrown away as "useless".

This does not mean there are not people who actually do take the time to learn on the way.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

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I presume you see yourself in that 15%. Don't break an arm patting yourself on the back. What makes you (and others who parrot talking points from the "hardcore" forums) believe that 3/4 of the players are no good at this game? Even if that ratio is accurate--and believe me, I'm nowhere near convinced of that--what steps are you taking to address the situation other than engaging in vain circle jerks on forums about how superior you are?

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Originally Posted by Rhas

Part2

I've found (generally speaking) that many people who "rush" to end game as fast as humanly possible don't care about doing anything except the bare minimum. Anything that doesn't get them to 50 the fastest is thrown away as "useless".

This does not mean there are not people who actually do take the time to learn on the way.

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So then its not a FATE problem is it? Once again, its an individual issue. That said, I would like it if SE somewhere down the road would make dungeons a more attractive option of gaining exp and interacting with more players.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Since it was mentioned, Qarn and Cutter's Cry are basically the idiot killer dungeons. Qarn especially, but Cutter's Cry's first boss can be a nightmare with bad players. Qarn teaches you positioning mechanics (I think the final boss has more mechanics than anything save the HM Primals) and Cutter's Cry is when the baby gloves are taken off in difficulty.

I really wish they had been required. Instead they're optional and I know many people skip them.

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Love both those dungeons :)

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Originally Posted by Alish

So then its not a FATE problem is it? Once again, its an individual issue.

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Never said it wasn't a personal issue. It gets them to 50 faster so they can whine more about end game content being to hard for them faster ;)

They will still most likely be bad from 2 days of leveling or 3 months of leveling, but if they had 3 months of leveling, their chances to actually learn on the way may be better than if it was in 2 days.

edited after your edit ;)
Dungeons, imo, are a good way to level. Went from 42 to 43 in 2 1/3 dungeons. Sure it may have been done "faster" in a fate, but I think it was just fine as it was.