Fates Are Ruining The Dungeon Experience

Fate Grinding is eating away all the potential party members in Dungeons, you queue for almost half an hour and you get nothing, and take note this is cross-server dungeon finding, I'm very disappointed.

There needs to be more incentives to run dungeons, and not fates.

I find it hard to believe that SE would spend all that time creating the instances, only for the majority of the playerbase to run them once.

I didn't experience any queues to dungeons (well, maybe because I'm a healer), but it's a fact that FATE system rewards player with a too high amount of experience points. It discourages taking part in dungeons. Dungeons should be a crucial point of the game. Not just 'speedrun-through-it-only-once'. I mean, look at them - they are fun, well designed and nice lookin'. It would be a tremendous waste just because FATE reward system is not optimized.
Nevertheless, we should give SE some time. They have a lot of gameplay issues right now, while trying to push towards 2.1 patch (since PVP demand is very high).

This isn't true, It's a shortage of tanks.
As a Tank, Sadly, I put up duty finder and I am in a party within 20-30 seconds normally.

The one time I ran a duty finder with my THM friend form FFXI he was like wow that was quick.

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Originally Posted by Kewitt

This isn't true, It's a shortage of tanks.
As a Tank, Sadly, I put up duty finder and I am in a party within 20-30 seconds normally.

The one time I ran a duty finder with my THM friend form FFXI he was like wow that was quick.

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I usually wait about 10m on a tank class unless I have a healer with me.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

Fate Grinding is eating away all the potential party members in Dungeons, you queue for almost half an hour and you get nothing, and take note this is cross-server dungeon finding, I'm very disappointed.

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Dungeons suck in terms of gil and experience as well as drops. You can pay me 1 million gil and i still wouldn't run a dungeon more than once just for the sake of the story. On the other hand FATES are loads of fun..my friends list is full of some amazing people that i met while leveling and we talk to eachother even when not in FATES.

FATES - 1
Dungeons - 0

People need to stop hating on FATES so much.

fates are closer to open world grinding and i enjoyed them more. dungeons are good when it's for the highest tier of gear to get it, but with the speed of leveling you run a dungeon a few times and you are past it anyways.

Find a FC, LS, or group of players who want to do the dungeon content and do them together when you have the time for it. But in every single MMO with a LFD tool, there is this problem and, by and large, it's due to a lack of players wanting to tank/heal and a huge swath of players wanting to do damage. The only MMO I haven't seen this an issue in is Guild Wars 2, but that game has no LFD tool and any group composition can get through anything.

I doubt Fates are the issue when this issue persists in games without Fates.

why not adding GC seals rewards to the dungeons? the only reason I occasionally run fates is the shortage of GC seals.

also, FATEs cultivate players incapable of running dungeons. some healers are just constantly spamming Medicas and Cure II and they think that's fine *then everyone wipes*. FATE-cultivated tanks can't keep hate and can't mark targets. they melt before a healer is able to heal them. FATE-trained DPS are not capable of any kind of tactics. They spam AoE generating more hate than any tank can get off them, then run around and melt.

Seriously, it's very hard to save these people. some realise it and listen to advice, most are just shunning it off and continue their FATE ways

FATEs are fine. If anything, the other means of progress (i.e. dungeons) need a boost. To be honest, they really do feel like one-time things. Yeah, they spent a lot of time making them, but they are part of story progression. Some of us ran most, if not all of them, with people we know or with folks that weren't a blemish to the community. The experience, even if just once, is enough to give it a positive light.

At some point in time, they will likely add incentive to do them again, as less people will need to do them, thus harder to find groups. It could be as soon as 5.1 for all we know, but for the time being, I don't think they see it as a priority issue to address. They're probably banking on folks making friends with others, and thus they be willing to run things together, even if someone has to do it more than once. You know, having fun in the sense of playing with friends, rather than treating it like playing by yourself.

Dungeons are useful for grinding gear. Until you're level 30 then GC gear is all you need until AF.

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Originally Posted by neverendingxsin

People need to stop hating on FATES so much.

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People need to stop grinding FATES too much leaving Dungeons to rot.

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Originally Posted by neverendingxsin

People need to stop hating on FATES so much.

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Yea at least until I finish lvling my last 3 jobs I didn't cap in 1.0.

Then cry all you want.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

People need to stop grinding FATES too much leaving Dungeons to rot.

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Dungeons deserve to rot. Don't blame the players, blame SE.

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Originally Posted by Nikki

Dungeons deserve to rot. Don't blame the players, blame SE.

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The game can exist without FATES, but it can't exist without Instanced Dungeons which is the core of every MMO

I agree, in this game, Fates give the best rewards for the least amount of effort and skill. It is not even fun to do! Up the experience points gained in dungeons, allow for seal rewards to drop as well.

I wonder if the people hating on dungeons just have a terrible experience clearing them because Fate zerg-grinding taught them nothing about their function in a group.

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Originally Posted by d4rkie

why not adding GC seals rewards to the dungeons? the only reason I occasionally run fates is the shortage of GC seals.

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I'm the same way. I would LOVE to earn GC seals from dungeons. FATE's are just too mindless for my taste to grind constantly. As a diversion from questing their fun but not as just an endless zerg fest.

Well I didn't spam repeat instances at all on my first character, that being my archer, not that I would of anyway what with these insane queue times of finding the party and then reserving instance, but as I'm slowly leveling up a conj as my second class I'm doing instances quite a fair bit to try get some gear and just take my time through the leveling process, helps that queue times are quicker as well.

Dungeons are the most fun part of the game. They're engaging and dynamic.

FATES are zzzz

How about not making dungeons forced to progress main quest line?

FATES are a blast with a group of people. As others mentioned, FATE participants talk with one another and form friendships. FATES are also an open-world event, providing a more immersive experience as you interact with the surroundings, not to mention that you can gather and craft in between. You are never locked into a formal party where, if you leave, your action affects other people. FATES allow people to be spontaneous or group up for a strategic approach to leveling. They are fun!

Dungeons are boring after 2-3 runs. Not a challenge at all. You get paired with several strangers, most of whom don't even say "Hello". Dungeons are depressing, offer less experience, and pull you out of the actual game world into a linear tunnel.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

People need to stop grinding FATES too much leaving Dungeons to rot.

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Why not run with your FC, LS, or friends? Even if dungeons gave equal XP to FATES, i'd still rather do fates.

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Originally Posted by refraxion

How about not making dungeons forced to progress main quest line?

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In my opinion, SE really needs to remove the forced group road blocks from the story progression. What will happen when the game matures and there aren't as many low level players to run the 1-shot story dungeons? Having said that, I enjoy Dungeons a lot more than I do fates but I prefer to do them when I feel like it. Guildhests and Dungeons both need to be brought up to the at least same XP:Time ratio as Fates.

I think most of the people who aren't lvl 50 don't realize really why the duty finder takes so long. It's because too many people are running dungeons. I have an already made full party and still have to wait 20 minutes in a queue because there aren't enough instances for everyone to run at once (of course for AK).

If you level 40-something to 50 in dungeons you can hit 50 and put on a few pieces of darklight. Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Juubi

The game can exist without FATES, but it can't exist without Instanced Dungeons which is the core of every MMO

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Says who? you?

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Originally Posted by Juubi

Fate Grinding is eating away all the potential party members in Dungeons, you queue for almost half an hour and you get nothing, and take note this is cross-server dungeon finding, I'm very disappointed.

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Some dungeons are just inefficient for running than others due to the lower XP values provided by them, mostly due to the lower number of smaller monsters to provide those chunks of XP. Halatali is an example of one of these, whilst those dungeons that come after (Toto-Rak, Brayflox) are far more efficient and great to level up in. FATEs are just far, far faster and have less punishment for failing involved in them.

Edit:
I should clarify that I enjoy dungeon running, whilst feel that FATE grinding is soul-sucking. This is why I opted while doing the latter to not just rush one FATE to the next, but slowwalk around handling the one's I felt were more fun, or useful for farming Choco-XP. Otherwise, I'd rather love dungeon running. The problem with THAT beyond XP yield is that you also get a really close, and sometimes ugly look at bad, bad players. The average run I've gotten just jumping into the DF without my FC, or with just one other of us, has been POOR, as some DPS throws hissy fits about drops, or the tank doesn't listen, plays badly, etc. When I tank, it's the DPS who complain, or the healer. When I DPS, it's the tank or the other DPS. Right as rain someone is going to make the party uncomfortable. This is not to say all groups do this, but it sucks the FUN out of Dungeons as much as FATEs suck the soul.

With PLD as my main class I run dungeons until I have a majority of the gear. Unfortunately the gear drops are not so random as they would like use believe. Therefore I end up running it 14-20 times. I get plenty of money back in gear that drops for other classes that will be useful later. Plus I get the satisfaction of helping out some poor sap who has yet to clear the dungeon because of incompetent groups. I also get a lot of experience. This is why I chose to be a tank. Aside from the fact that almost every tank I encountered before hand couldn't grasp that there was a enmity chain and a mp regeneration chain.

FATE DO give far too much exp for very little involvement. I run up, I dps 3 or 4 targets (mind you not all the way down) I switch from target to target to compete with the massive amount of aoe going on. I get 7k exp hands down. No problem. Also, a healthy chunk of GC seals. Therein lies another problem. GC gear is too good for what you do for it. I can craft my ass off and make all my hq gear for crafting and gathering OR I can farm GC seals in FATE and acquire gear that is equally as good (or better) as anything I can create and not have to worry about putting materia in it to make it the best.

For most people the least amount of time/effort spent is the clear path to victory. Although it rarely results in dungeon victories. Especially when you get to the more intricate dungeons.

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Originally Posted by neverendingxsin

Why not run with your FC, LS, or friends? Even if dungeons gave equal XP to FATES, i'd still rather do fates.

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Of course you would; why go to the minimal effort it takes to run a dungeon when you can run around semi-naked spamming flash and get xp for doing practically nothing!

Dungeons should give SIGNIFICANTLY more xp than fates - they are harder, require teamwork, require blocks of time investment, give no gil reward, give no seals, and give substantially less xp. What was SE thinking?

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Originally Posted by Inviticus

In my opinion, SE really needs to remove the forced group road blocks from the story progression. What will happen when the game matures and there aren't as many low level players to run the 1-shot story dungeons? Having said that, I enjoy Dungeons a lot more than I do fates but I prefer to do them when I feel like it. Guildhests and Dungeons both need to be brought up to the at least same XP:Time ratio as Fates.

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No, they need to incentivize low-level content for higher level players. Not nearly to the same degree as high level content is, but enough that when asked for help, it isn't an entirely selfless affair. If, for example, a run of Halatali took about equal time as a run of AK, and gave ~1/3rd of the tomestones of philosophy for characters at level 50, people may be slightly more inclined to help.

I don't think the problem here is with FATEs, I think the problem is poor incentive to A. play a tank and B. do dungeons at all. The experience you earn in dungeons isn't close to what you get in fates, trash mobs drop absolutely nothing, reliable groups are much more important in this game than most MMOs (one-shot mechanics).

As for the shortage of tanks, I'm honestly not sure what the best solution is aside from offering them a better reward for dungeon completion or somehow giving their classes (jobs) more utility and advantages to match the shitty aspects.

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Originally Posted by Axaron

What he said.

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Tanks get treated like crap if they don't do well. Seems to be the best scapegoat an entire party does when things go bad - blame the tank (or healer or both). So ya... it's understandable why there is a shortage.

As for FATE versus Dungeons, I like FATEs more since people tend to be more outgoing and there just more fun for experience points. Dungeons can feel like a chore and it kind of sucks when you don't get any reward by the end of it. The trash-mobs in any dungeon need to drop stuff to, which will give players more incentive to actually want to eliminate them prior to reaching the boss - not just a lootbox that gives 1/4 or 1/8 chances of getting something for any player.

I have run lots of fates but for the massive amounts of experience and i feel it becomes like a routine fate spawns run and kill it go back wait for new one to spawn i would rather do Dungeons for the fun and the actually need for co op but it just doesn't yield the exp or any worth while drops because even if you get something good you cant really make money on it either trying to sell it on the market. I miss the old exp parties of FF11 I do wish there was more to dungeons maybe for exp or something to make ppl run them more.

Saving up my dungeon grind energy for when the rest of my FC gets 50 and I need to run AK 500 times as one of the only two tanks in the FC.

When dungeons give me 1 level an hour like fates do and give me GC seals then I will gladly do them otherwise I will just continue to do FATES as they are far faster and give way more experience on top of that give me GC seals which you need tons for later GC gear.

FATE content isn't the problem, it's the solution.

It's one the better aspects of the game. That and 90% of the problems at launch were tied to instance crashing. People don't want to find themselves at the log in screen with an error popping up.

I don't think i ever want to see FATEs nerfed, But personally following 80 Folk to do a FATE that ends in 30 seconds of Blinding lights, AoEs, and hysteria isn't even remotely my idea of a good time or fun... But... FATEs are great ways to grind out some levels.

Personally, Instead of nerfing Fates in any way, they should buff dungeons. Make them a nice alternative to FATEs. Gear doesn't seem to be enough for this era of MMO patrons, so to them, dungeons have no reason to exist pre50 other than story. Though they are really fun when you go in with people you already know, personally i have a BLAST going in dungeons with my friends. So its not like they're bad.

I think for Pre-50 Dungeons, Exp gained from Combat should be about double what it is now. Making it >/= to FATEs. Maybe throw in a way to get seals that don't involve "Greed"ing every Pink/Green item that drops.

12 curse this 1000 Char limit.

The FATE system is a bit broken. Too many people are FATE farming and FATE grinding that nobody is learning how to play their respective classes properly, which leaves for poor performances in required dungeons. And it's blatantly obvious.

People form parties, pretty much AoE mobs down, and before you know it FATEs are finished within a few minutes. This seems to be turning into the new "power leveling" method.

FATEs are a great aspect of the game, a credit to GW2. However the rewards system game-wide needs some heavy consideration to create balance. Increase the item to coffer rate in dungeons, for example will give more incentive for players to run dungeons. How about some random trash mobs can actually drop an item chest/coffer? Perhaps when a FATE is completed, participating players get a random treasure chest in their inventory that they can open which has the chance for a nice drop?

I've been purposely avoiding FATEs and just queuing my secondary classes for dungeons for XP so that I can get gear for other classes at the same time. Yeah, it's going to be slower, but I'm finding other things to do in the meantime, such as gathering and crafting. I can't stand the FATEs where you see hundreds of people training to them and AoEing everything or 15 min bosses dying within 15 seconds.

By the way, fix how contributions are doled out for Behemoth and Odin. I managed to stay alive for a whole Behemoth encounter the other night and had yellow threat on him as a BLM. Got a Bronze medal.

I have one major issue with FATEs:

Some players do nothing but FATE grind, then queue for A. Keep and/or Castrum
and they have absolutely no idea how to play their class. Also, I'd say 80% of the
time they are in level 38-40 gear. Tanks get 2-shot, have no idea how to generate
threat. Healers spam Medica II then wonder why they are getting crazy amounts
of threat.

I haven't used DF in 6 days because of this. I only run with FC now, as it's getting
a bit ridiculous. I'm not one to tell people to not FATE grind, but take some time to
learn how to PLAY. You can't just run into dungeons and raids and blast everything
with AOE and low level gear and win the game. Sorry to burst any bubbles here.