@Amdapor Keep Whiners

For people whining about speed run, trash mobs:

Do not give gil
Do not give loot
Do not give tomes
Do not give exp
Wear down your gear faster then dieing

Note: Only 1 person gets 7 Allagan Bronze Pieces from chest.

Result? Clearing all trash mobs wastes your time and most important, makes your repair fees bigger. The amount of trash there is will result greater repair fee cost then dieing 3 times.

Before you even whine about speed runs, how about making trash mobs drop something useful!?

Clearing all Trash Repair Cost > Dieing 3 times for speed run repair cost

How about making the boss inactive and untargetable until 75% of the "trash" is cleared.

Speed runs, they was apart of 1.0? i seem to remember skipping trash in dungeons then too. its here to stay, get with it. There's no need to kill them.

I can understand when a new tank complains, but I've seen healers and dps complain too, even if there's an experienced tank leading the way. Why? All speed runs do is speed up the run, cutting out the extra crap that doesn't need to be done. Is there a reason why people absolutely MUST fight every last piece of trash in a dungeon? I know some say "I don't know how to do it!" so here's a guide in speed runs:

1: Tank runs to boss room (or safe spot if they can't make it the whole way)
2: dps/healer follow tank
3: tank dies away from the group

Sure is hard isn't it? But people refuse to even try it, and that's just sad.

Im against speed runs pre 50 because you miss out on exp. Post 50 there is no incentive to not speed run.

I think I missed something, is the game closing down next week? Wow, I better hurry and finish all content right meow!

I've stated this elsewhere, but I don't think most people have an issue with the idea of speedrunning itself. It's more the problem that speedrunning has caused in duty finder, where anyone new to a dungeon has a high chance of being abandoned on the grounds of "no experience" or wanting to run it normally on their first time.

There needs to be a system that either gives people a reason to be okay with not speedrunning (ie: decent gil drops from trash mobs) or a change to duty finder to accommodate the two groups of players (casual/new vs speedrun).



Not all players feel the need to rush end game content, so there shouldn't be any reason for other people to be forcing them to play like that. The same is true vice versa.

i think the entire blame of this should be placed on SE for poor dungeon loot/drop designs. Here are some great ways to increase players wanting to actually run dungeons
1.monsters drop $ pieces randomly and not just bronze pieces
2.boss chest drop 1 Mage gear 1 Tank gear 1DPS gear even sub boss chests.
3.Monsters give 1-2 tomes per kill.
4.Monsters drop higher tier Potions x/mega.
5.Dark matter chests

wow look funner more incentive dungeons!

Why do you guys want to kill the SAME TRASH MOBS EVERY SINGLE RUN?!?! Its a waste of time especially if its the same group going every time.

Speed running with your FC mates and friends = cool beans! lets do this!

Speed Running with Pugs and strangers = hold up! who set up a firecracker up your rectum?!

They should just make the mobs aggro the rest of the party even if they are half way across the instance after the tank dies.

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Originally Posted by Shonie

I think I missed something, is the game closing down next week? Wow, I better hurry and finish all content right meow!

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ANNNND there goes your credibility.
and also, our insane repair bills and lack of means to make gil at any reasonable, decent rate make me unable to care less how many of you would rather sit and look at stone buildings or whatever or kill the same mob over and over for about an hour or so. Do that on your own time with your friends who share your wants and desires please.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

Do that on your own time with your friends who share your wants and desires please.

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This same logic can be applied to people who are there for speed runs only that use the duty finder and get a player who is completely new to the dungeon. Do you really think it's going to be a speed run if the player has no clue what they're doing anyway? Regardless of how many times you explain something to someone you learn by doing. Not having information whipped at you, the information only helps to quicken the learning curve, it doesn't make them an expert on the dungeon.

Egh, on one hand I really love doing speed runs. But on the other, I really don't want to ruin someone else's first experience of the dungeon if they really want to do it normally. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Avengedangel

Egh, on one hand I really love doing speed runs. But on the other, I really don't want to ruin someone else's first experience of the dungeon if they really want to do it normally. :confused:

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This is a really cool attitude /cheer :D

Most everyone else in this thread is just being selfish :/ which when using the Duty Finder is just gonna make you seem like a loser. DF is about working together with ppl you don't know, being flexible, and teamwork.

i get why do the speed runs i really do. but also i feel like the whole thing wasn't made to be skipped. skipping a few trash mobs i get but not the whole place

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

ANNNND there goes your credibility.

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Didn't see the one Miqo'te NPC that does that speech mannerism during the storyline? lol

Across all dungeons.
Final Chests.
Make higher tier drops for more mobs killed in the zone.
unlock Rings 10-30%
unlock Legs and hands 30-50%
unlock head and Feet 50-70%
unlock everything 70+%

I'd love to do AK but I'm pretty sure nobody wants a tank who doesn't know how to do the speed run, let alone teach them. I'll just go back to everything else and avoid the rest of the high level stuff, doesn't sound too fun if this thread is anything to go by.

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Originally Posted by Hikozaemon

[One of these:]
1.monsters drop $ pieces randomly and not just bronze pieces
2.boss chest drop 1 Mage gear 1 Tank gear 1DPS gear even sub boss chests.
3.Monsters give 1-2 tomes per kill.
4.Monsters drop higher tier Potions x/mega.
5.Dark matter chests

wow look funner more incentive dungeons!

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Monsters don't need to drop THAT many tomes, but I agree otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Tari-F

I've stated this elsewhere, but I don't think most people have an issue with the idea of speedrunning itself. It's more the problem that speedrunning has caused in duty finder, where anyone new to a dungeon has a high chance of being abandoned on the grounds of "no experience" or wanting to run it normally on their first time.

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^ +1.

Everyone thinks it's either "I <3 AK" or "N3RF SP33D RUNZ", but there's also people like me. All I want is SE to give you incentive to kill, not punishment for not killing.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

ANNNND there goes your credibility.
and also, our insane repair bills and lack of means to make gil at any reasonable, decent rate make me unable to care less how many of you would rather sit and look at stone buildings or whatever or kill the same mob over and over for about an hour or so. Do that on your own time with your friends who share your wants and desires please.

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Right, instead, make one guy pay for all the repairs.

Yes, I'm aware that in a clean run, it's more profitable for everyone, including the tank, to speed run, but I'm also aware that that place is very nasty and each and any screw up costs the tank more.

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Originally Posted by AstraFrost

This same logic can be applied to people who are there for speed runs only that use the duty finder and get a player who is completely new to the dungeon. Do you really think it's going to be a speed run if the player has no clue what they're doing anyway? Regardless of how many times you explain something to someone you learn by doing. Not having information whipped at you, the information only helps to quicken the learning curve, it doesn't make them an expert on the dungeon.

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trash is trash... you dont become a pro by killing trash..... I learn fights by watching youtube a couple times to memorize patterns and strats and I pretty much have it. Don't enter a high level dungeon without a clue... research first. makes it easier on everyone.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

Didn't see the one Miqo'te NPC that does that speech mannerism during the storyline? lol

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I despise Miqo'te....

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Originally Posted by Steeled

Monsters don't need to drop THAT many tomes, but I agree otherwise.



^ +1.

Everyone thinks it's either "I <3 AK" or "N3RF SP33D RUNZ", but there's also people like me. All I want is SE to give you incentive to kill, not punishment for not killing.



Right, instead, make one guy pay for all the repairs.

Yes, I'm aware that in a clean run, it's more profitable for everyone, including the tank, to speed run, but I'm also aware that that place is very nasty and each and any screw up costs the tank more.

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It costs less for the tank to die 3 times than to tank the entire instance good sir.

So we all bitch and complain about wanting a challenge.......then we exploit dungeons because it's the easy way out?

You know technically that's cheating. Just because the game allows you to do it doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. But that's just me.

If you're using duty finder and expecting everyone to adhere to your overzealous speedruns, the person at fault is you. I won't argue that it should be search option but, there currently isn't. You want to do speedruns? Make some friends, it's a MMO. DF is essentially matchmaking and its unrealistic to demand people follow your agenda.

I, personally, want my first run in a new dungeon to not be bogged down by a speedrun zealot. At least once, I want to experience it entirely. Any time afterward, I'm not going to use duty finder, at least not expecting a speedrun and everyone skipping cutscenes, regardless of length. I'm going to find people of similar motive within my own server.

If you can't be bothered to do that, then any and all your moaning doesn't concern me whatsoever. It's unreasonable. "But it ruins it for the other 1-7 people!" What's ruined? You only have one first time. Whilst you can do your speedruns ad infinitum.

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Originally Posted by AridElf

*snip*.

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Not trying to scare you away, but on my VERY first run, people asked me to speed run it. Didn't fully explain how till I died once in the wrong spot, all they said was run and die at the boss room and "gogo". Remember, this is my VERY first run of the place. Right after that I learned how to speed run the first part just getting to the first boss' room. Then they started saying if we die we have to do it all over again, then they explained how the fight worked with little detail. Crap happened, I died, they called me a bad tank, and left. Boy did that leave a bad feel behind. I was expecting the community to be super chill towards end game since most people were still new, you know?

Anyways, I came back to the instance a while later and ran into a party where people were actually nice enough to explain everything *gasp*. How speed running works, bosses and such, blah blah blah. From then on my runs have been pretty nice.

TL;DR: Not everyone at end game is a complete err... ass. And your first run will not always be your best (obv) so don't let any elitists get ya down or ruin your hopes. :)

People thinking AK is designed to be viable at speed running...yet there's trash...which obviously means there's a design flaw with it not working as intended otherwise there wouldn't be trash. It's not hard to work out so why are people being bitchy about people not knowing who to speed run it wow.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

It costs less for the tank to die 3 times than to tank the entire instance good sir.

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You didn't read what I said, I'm talking about if the tank has to die 5 or 6 times because people screw up.

Because, you know, people screw up. Also a lot of people need to see a fight once to really understand it.

Actually, make that 9 times ;;. Getting to the boss is one death, dying to it is another, getting back to it is another.

Shit builds up.

Edit: quotefail

Speedruns should be something you should do within your guild. It shouldn't be something implemented to destroy other peoples experience of the game (especially if they are playing for the first time or heck if it's there first mmo). Simply because you don't know who's going to end up in your duty finder especially if its a first timer or someone who wants to experience the game. Also I've gain a lot of good exp still with "trash" mobs through chain bonuses, and my rested exp bonus. Heck even without the rested exp i gotten good exp. Of course if you are 50 you don't care about the "trash" mobs. Guess what im saying just because you want to speed run it doesn't mean others want to speed run it. Keep the speedruns within your guild, level 50 counter parts, or friends.

No one is born with knowledge of FFXIV when they are born.

1.) Anyone who is an uber-dousch and try's to force people through the cut-scenes and into speed-runs should be reportable. Sorry, but its basically a form of harassment or verbal abuse to try and pressure these people into not enjoying the game. Personally, if someone pulls that with me their going to be Peeved when they see me sitting there enjoying the story (at least on my first play through).

2.) Clearly, this is a problem that SE needs to address, and by address I mean they need to create some incentive for people to NOT speed run their dungeons. They could essentially solve multiple problems with a few quick and easy adjustments.
-Either turn off or significantly lower the rate of equipment degradation (nobody is interested in spending so much time & money fixing their EQ).
-Have mobs in dungeons drop gil or allagan pieces (possibly spelled wrong)
-Allow players to sell/trade unique items they locate in dungeons.

I don't have a problem with speed running, but I do have a problem with the toxic community.

As a tank, I knew speed running was the norm, so I watched a video of it to prime myself. After the party formed, I told them that its my first time, but that I'd be willing to try and speed run. The healer insulted me and bailed. Shortly after, the 2 DPSers dropped, too.

This community makes WoW's community look like the YMCA.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

You didn't read what I said, I'm talking about if the tank has to die 5 or 6 times because people screw up.

Because, you know, people screw up. Also a lot of people need to see a fight once to really understand it.

Actually, make that 9 times ;;. Getting to the boss is one death, dying to it is another, getting back to it is another.



Shit builds up.

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why is my face showing in yer reply post w/ quotes i didnt say.

Quotefail, apologies.

Guyz, I went into Ifrit Hard Mode and they were totally cheating and stunning all of his Eruptions which isn't the full experience so I asked them to stop stunning and they didn't. Now I am sad so I will write a report to SE cause this must be stopped! They wouldn't put Eruption in the game if they didn't intend for us to get hit by it.

/sarcasm

No but really its not that big of a deal, even if we speed run 4/5 duty finder parties are gonna die 20x on the first boss anyways.

As a tank who hasn't done speeds runs on AK, it's a bit intimidating knowing that the first time I DF for it, I'll be expected to know how to speed run or forfeit the run all together. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, but not knowing it is kind of ... I dunno. I watched some videos, but the moment you tell people "OK it's my first time here," they freak out.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

You didn't read what I said, I'm talking about if the tank has to die 5 or 6 times because people screw up.

Because, you know, people screw up. Also a lot of people need to see a fight once to really understand it.

Actually, make that 9 times ;;. Getting to the boss is one death, dying to it is another, getting back to it is another.

Shit builds up.

Edit: quotefail

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You should probably read my entire post before saying I dont read anything when you obviously didn't read mine. I said research a dungeon before you enter and it greatly decreases the amount of screwups. Speed running consists of mostly skipping trash. You do not need to research trash. Is youtubing a boss fight really too hard to ask that you need to have people sit and type it out for you when you can just watch?
5 minute video is hard.

It doesn't matter how well you know a fight, wipes still happen especially if the overall level of your group is barely above the capability to clear the dungeon. (Strong healer, weak tank / vise versa / weak DD or bad dd comp like double archers or even double melee.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

It doesn't matter how well you know a fight, wipes still happen especially if the overall level of your group is barely above the capability to clear the dungeon. (Strong healer, weak tank / vise versa / weak DD or bad dd comp like double archers or even double melee.

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fortunately the only fight in AK that really needs a decent group is the demon wall. and that's only really add control and a dps race.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

You should probably read my entire post before saying I dont read anything when you obviously didn't read mine. I said research a dungeon before you enter and it greatly decreases the amount of screwups. Speed running consists of mostly skipping trash. You do not need to research trash. Is youtubing a boss fight really too hard to ask that you need to have people sit and type it out for you when you can just watch?
5 minute video is hard.

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Why don't you just do everyone else a favor, stop playing and go watch a stream of someone else playing.

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Originally Posted by Chiruru53

Is youtubing a boss fight really too hard to ask that you need to have people sit and type it out for you when you can just watch?
5 minute video is hard.

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Here's the problem: Why should a casual player have to put in extra effort outside of the game to research a dungeon? Sure, if you want to speedrun or optimize your dungeon time, feel free to do that research. However, players who aren't interested in that shouldn't be forced to accommodate the players who are interested in it. This is true vice versa as well.


I feel like I should also point out that a lot of players enjoy learning dungeons through trial-by-fire, or from talking to people and experiencing it themselves, rather than from watching other people play it.


There are a lot of different ways people can play this game, and there should be no reason that all of those approaches cannot coexist peacefully.

As it is right now, though, we have the players who want to speedrun (and optimize and save gil and so-on) clashing heads with players who just want to relax and play the game. Having the community split and in direct contention with each other is hardly a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

Why don't you just do everyone else a favor, stop playing and go watch a stream of someone else playing.

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I fail to see your point. what's so terrible about watching a guide on a fight? Did you never study for tests in school? Or by your logic did you just go into every test and just wing it? a 5 minute video isn't asking a lot. I hated doing it myself as well before. Then I one day decided hey. I'm going to watch this guide. 5 minutes isn't a lot. and lo and behold, I did, and hey, I still had fun in the fight AND I wasn't holding anyone back! WOW!

And if everyone stopped playing like you people love to say, your precious game wouldn't last very long now would it. So give it up with that tired old response, it's unoriginal and seriously getting old.

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Originally Posted by Avengedangel

TL;DR: Not everyone at end game is a complete err... ass. And your first run will not always be your best (obv) so don't let any elitists get ya down or ruin your hopes. :)

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Yeah I know not everyone is, and I will one day set foot inside there and maybe even finish the main storyline, but that bitterness left behind from an aggressive team is hard to shake off. Heck, I got screamed at for watching the cutscenes in Darkhold and we did it flawlessly on my first run..