Are Monks weakest DPS?

I've been interested in Monks, but I noticed the DPS seems extremely low compared to Lancer and Archer. What's the deal? Or perhaps maybe I just suck. lol

Are you level 50?

MNK requires more effort/timing to optimize dps than either class you're comparing it to, and they seem to scale better as your gear gets top end. A tweak or two maybe, but no- in general they are not lower dps.

Even if your rotations are bad- keeping GL up is the key. If the fight precludes you from keeping GL up constantly, then yes, you'll fall below other dps class damage.

Definitely not low at 50 assuming not too many disconnects.

I do wish we had an ability at 50 that refreshed our GL stacks from range. Even if it did zero damage that would be amazing

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

I do wish we had an ability at 50 that refreshed our GL stacks from range. Even if it did zero damage that would be amazing

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This. The only thing that hurts monk DPS atm is when there is forced movement away from ANY targets to hit. then we must ramp up the DPS again.

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Originally Posted by Subucnimorning

Definitely not low at 50 assuming not too many disconnects.

I do wish we had an ability at 50 that refreshed our GL stacks from range. Even if it did zero damage that would be amazing

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I'd like to see shoulder charge do this, and have it's cooldown reduced to at least 30s. I'd even sacrifice the stun and the damage if it refreshed GL and had a lower cooldown.

There are 4 other dps classes :

Bard : Bard is topping dps with Black Mage, so monk is lower.

Black Mage : There is no way a Monk can outdamage a Black mage, even in single target, with equal gear.

Dragoon : Dragoon is easier to play, does more damage Single target and AoE than monk.

Summoner : Summoner have slightly better dps than Monks if your pet doesn't die.

Quick answer : Yes Monks are the lowest dps. A well played BLM will do 30 to 40% more dps than a well played Monk with equal gear.

Monks bring :

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-10% INT debuff
+20% heal potency on the group for 15 sec every 120 sec
Melee Transcendance

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To be honest I would never take a Monk over any other classes in a perfect 8man group but in 24man raids, they could be actually very useful for chaining mantras.

tldr : Monks have the lowest dps, they bring utility but the difference between their dps and other's doesn't justify a spot in an optimized group.

I think of it this way, Monks deal lower DPS average but in longer battles, they can achieve high DPS and sustain that DPS because of the GL stacks and other self-buff that are applied to them.

The issue is monks are a lot harder to play then other classes and can easily suffer form disconnects ruining their abilities causing them to need to 'setup' once again. Without those issues I think monks wouldn't have a problem being up near the top of dps. That being said, its very likely you are doing something wrong as well that your dps isn't very high with it.

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Originally Posted by Salaster

There are 4 other dps classes :

Bard : Bard is topping dps with Black Mage, so monk is lower.
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Sorry but it depends on fight. Fights that require little movement, Monk has the highest DPS by a landslide.

There is so much bad advice going out in this thread, it's incredible.

Currently monks are the best dps in the game. The trick is to stop using demolish and touch of death. I'm not kidding. There are spread sheets out there, you can look it up for yourselves. But currently monks can parse for approximately 190-210 dps in level 45 AF gear. Other classes peak at about 170.

As far as difficulty is concerned, once you cut the fat from your rotation it's basically 1234123412341234. Simplest class in the game.

Current pecking order is as follows: MNK > SMN > BLM > DRG(this varies on fight) > BRD

You people really need to stop calling the best dps class in the game the worst simply because you don't understand math or the class. :P


EDIT: To add a bit of additional evidence to this claim, Blue Garter's BL group consisted of PLD PLD WHM WHM MNK MNK MNK DRG
There is a reason for that madness, and it isn't because MNK sucks.

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

There is so much bad advice going out in this thread, it's incredible.

Currently monks are the best dps in the game. The trick is to stop using demolish and touch of death. I'm not kidding.

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Not saying you are wrong, but why are you saying not to use those dots? Which abilities do you use instead? Is Fracture at least worth it?

Trying to improve my monk dps, so I am just curious :)

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

Currently monks are the best dps in the game. The trick is to stop using demolish and touch of death. I'm not kidding. There are spread sheets out there, you can look it up for yourselves. But currently monks can parse for approximately 190-210 dps in level 45 AF gear. Other classes peak at about 170.

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Those spreadsheets are from Beta when % buffs didn't work with DoTs.

Now all buffs do, GL, FoF, etc.

You should be using the DoTs, they're your hardest hitting skills if they have time to bleed out.

I dropped Fracture from my boss Rotation. I open with ToD, Twin Snakes and Demolish. Once the DoTs are rolling, and I've got the Twin Snakes buff, i just alternate between Twin Snakes and True Strike, Demolish and Snap Punch. Keeps up my GL stacks, my Twin Snake buff and my DoTs with none falling off.
On movement heavy fights, ill lay in with Fracture since i cant get full uptime for maintaining the alternating rotation.

The biggest thing i found that improved my damage though, is positioning. Initially i just sat behind the boss all the time. Now I'm constantly swinging between Flank and Behind in order to get the bonus crit from Bootshine and damage from True Strike, Twin Snakes and Snap Punch.

Not using Snap Punch from Flank is a very noticeable damage drop. I've seen a *lot* of Monks that don't take advantage of the Flank bonuses, and their damage suffers as a result.
As a reference, my Snap Punch under 2x GL from behind hits for 78, but will hit for 110 from Flank. Twin Snakes is the same. Always use your Flank bonuses ^_^

PS: I'm only 37 >_>

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Originally Posted by Salaster

To be honest I would never take a Monk over any other classes in a perfect 8man group but in 24man raids, they could be actually very useful for chaining mantras

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You couldn't be more wrong. Monks have the highest sustained single target DPS of any class in the game, by a large margin.

We're gonna need parser data on the test dummy to see that.

MNK is one of the top, if not the top, single target DPS jobs right now.

The difference in DPS between all the jobs isn't that large overall, however they all do specialize in their own way of DPS. This is with the expectancy that a MNK will be forced to lose GL3 a few times during a fight due to mechanics. If there are no mechanics that lead to MNKs dropping GL3, then they are ahead by a significant margin in DPS.

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Originally Posted by Teeko

Not saying you are wrong, but why are you saying not to use those dots? Which abilities do you use instead? Is Fracture at least worth it?

Trying to improve my monk dps, so I am just curious :)

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Mnks use demolish/touch of death because they have to
Pugists do not. They have way way way better skills to choose from.

Though realistically Dots are pretty meh, except for fights you run away from. Except for fracture, they have disgustingly long animations. They do provide faster Limit break charging.

personally i think monks are the COOLEST job here. °-° i love their animations. And they do a lot of damages too! *-*°

Just one thing, honestly. Personally i've hit 196 dps against demon wall. So isn't true that we bard peak at 170. u.u

Other than that, monk are funny, and cool, and good looking. Don't look down on monk! èOé

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

Currently monks are the best dps in the game. The trick is to stop using demolish and touch of death. I'm not kidding. There are spread sheets out there, you can look it up for yourselves. But currently monks can parse for approximately 190-210 dps in level 45 AF gear. Other classes peak at about 170.]

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190 on training dummy ? That's my dps as BRD.
Just because one group use mainly MNKs as DPS doesn't mean they are the best.

Anyway none of this is relevant. The issue with monks is that it requires too much positioning and encounters makes it very hard for MNK. You can have the best dps on dummy, there is no use to it if you can't apply it in a real situation.

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

To add a bit of additional evidence to this claim, Blue Garter's BL group consisted of PLD PLD WHM WHM MNK MNK MNK DRG
There is a reason for that madness, and it isn't because MNK sucks.

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Of course. Because it's definitely not a case of current endgame content being a joke right? No that can't possibly be it. This is the hardest endgame content ever made! /sarcasm

"Dude I saw Tiger Woods beat my dad in a round of golf using a rubber chicken as his only club. Obviously the rubber chicken is the next big thing in golf."

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Originally Posted by Kasrai

Of course. Because it's definitely not a case of current endgame content being a joke right? No that can't possibly be it. This is the hardest endgame content ever made! /sarcasm

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Yeah everyone's got Coil on easymode farm. Why you see pugs for that everywhere!

Or is Amdapor endgame as far as you're concerned?

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Yeah everyone's got Coil on easymode farm. Why you see pugs for that everywhere!

Or is Amdapor endgame as far as you're concerned?

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The game has been out a week and Coil is starting to be cleared already. Are you seriously using the fact that pugs aren't clearing it as your argument? Back peddle some more.

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Originally Posted by Kasrai

The game has been out a week and Coil has been cleared already. Are you seriously using the fact that pugs aren't clearing it as your argument? Back peddle some more.

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Oh? Who's cleared Coil?

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Oh? Who's cleared Coil?

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Starting to be cleared. It's 5:40am and I haven't slept yet -.-

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Originally Posted by Kasrai

Starting to be cleared. It's 5:40am and I haven't slept yet -.-

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Oh STARTED to be cleared. Because killing the first parts of a dungeon is the same as doing it.

"Hey guys, we got Titan to 50% twice, that's like killing him!"

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Oh STARTED to be cleared. Because killing the first parts of a dungeon is the same as doing it.

"Hey guys, we got Titan to 50% twice, that's like killing him!"

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Don't get butt-hurt now. I heard tons of MMOs out there have their endgame getting progressed through in the first week right? Right? No wait. Not right.

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Originally Posted by Kasrai

Don't get butt-hurt now. I heard tons of MMOs out there have their endgame getting progressed through in the first week right? Right? No wait. Not right.

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And tons of MMOs have people with the third-best equipment and several weeks of practice (remember those beta phases?) all at the level cap right when the game comes out. Right?

And yeah, most MMOs do have their endgame cleared within a week of it being released. Heck it's weird when it takes more than three or four days, and that's including leveling up and gearing up.

Look, I get you just started and so far nothing's been vaguely challenging. That's normal. Everything below 50 is pretty mind-numbingly easy. The people saying they've cleared Ifrit or Garuda like it's endgame content are in for a surprise when they realize that those are the first 2 of 8 bits of endgame dungeons. Castrum, Praetorium, Wanderer's and Amdapor are not really endgame.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

And yeah, most MMOs do have their endgame cleared within a week of it being released. Heck it's weird when it takes more than three or four days, and that's including leveling up and gearing up.

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Ohh I see. Trying to preserve the thought of endgame being hard to make your Legacy time mean something.

Just for shits and giggles, name some relevant, and I repeat relevant, MMOs that have their endgame being progressed through within the first week. You can't cheat and name things like GW2 and Tera that had no endgame when they were released though. Actually, you can name those. That would just make me right wouldn't it?

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Originally Posted by Kasrai

Don't get butt-hurt now. I heard tons of MMOs out there have their endgame getting progressed through in the first week right? Right? No wait. Not right.

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Actually, with less than a handful being exceptions, most are having their endgame content progressed through in the first week, and some within two to three days. If you demand an example, then WoW would be one. Every expansion post-TBC actually. And if we aren't allowed to list things that launch with minimal or no endgame content all you're really left with is WoW.

I could argue that FFXI doesn't count because it had a boss that took almost 20 hours to kill and that's just bad design. Most of its bosses were designed to take a long time, and in any other MMO would have been maybe 10-15 minute fights max.

So please, just stop trying to start shit for no reason before I am forced to report your flamebait posts.

Back on track...,

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I dropped Fracture from my boss Rotation. I open with ToD, Twin Snakes and Demolish. Once the DoTs are rolling, and I've got the Twin Snakes buff, i just alternate between Twin Snakes and True Strike, Demolish and Snap Punch. Keeps up my GL stacks, my Twin Snake buff and my DoTs with none falling off.

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Not using Fracturecis a definite DPS loss. It can be awkward to fit it into a rotation well due to the odd duration, but it is certainly worth it.

summoner is worst, monks are second worst /thread

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Originally Posted by aswedishtiger

summoner is worst, monks are second worst /thread

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The parser's floating around I've seen have SMN dps in between BRD and everyone else. Although, while playing my SCH, all the SMN I've seen just spam Ruin.

Progressed through and completed are different. A wow raid usually takes up to a month for the best guilds to beat. The rest are a joke. SWTOR is very quick. Rift, it depends. But most are a joke because most mmos are trying to change mmos from hotkeys to button mashing... all imo of course :)

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

There is so much bad advice going out in this thread, it's incredible.

Currently monks are the best dps in the game. The trick is to stop using demolish and touch of death. I'm not kidding. There are spread sheets out there, you can look it up for yourselves. But currently monks can parse for approximately 190-210 dps in level 45 AF gear. Other classes peak at about 170..

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Please provide source. I'm sure that weaving in touch of death, fracture and demolish which get damage increase from GL and Twin Snake is DPS gain.

Anyone that think Monks are the lowest DPS is terrible, have no idea what they are doing, or is just bitter over something.

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Originally Posted by Spythe

Anyone that think Monks are the lowest DPS is terrible, have no idea what they are doing, or is just bitter over something.

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Or party with bad tanks that spin targets around like tops.

Monks, Black Mages, Archers, and Dragoons are all on par together with dps with the Summoner being dead last. Having a 50 Summoner with gear, I can honestly say our damage is pathetic right now and needs to be changed. Our pets dmg is terrible which should be the staple of our dmg. Im so fed up with it I've stopped playing it and now trying to figure out which of the other 4 I want to play.

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Originally Posted by Rover1983

Monks, Black Mages, Archers, and Dragoons are all on par together with dps with the Summoner being dead last. Having a 50 Summoner with gear, I can honestly say our damage is pathetic right now and needs to be changed. Our pets dmg is terrible which should be the staple of our dmg. Im so fed up with it I've stopped playing it and now trying to figure out which of the other 4 I want to play.

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I rerolled my level 40 summoner I made a new character level 41 black mage at the moment

Go black mage we are the actual warlocks of the game's universe and blowing stuff up is so much fun. :o

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Originally Posted by CursedCoffee

There is so much bad advice going out in this thread, it's incredible.

Currently monks are the best dps in the game. The trick is to stop using demolish and touch of death. I'm not kidding. There are spread sheets out there, you can look it up for yourselves. But currently monks can parse for approximately 190-210 dps in level 45 AF gear. Other classes peak at about 170..

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Well that odd I ran Amdapor Keep with no dots. I did 20 more DPS then when I used dots (on last boss) according to FFXIVLog Parser. This parser does register dots....

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Originally Posted by shinros

I rerolled my level 40 summoner I made a new character level 41 black mage at the moment

Go black mage we are the actual warlocks of the game's universe and blowing stuff up is so much fun. :o

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How much are Summoners dots ticking for? I keep hearing they are terrible DPS but I think it may be how the numbers display instead of just being flat out bad.

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Originally Posted by Mishaela

Or party with bad tanks that spin targets around like tops.

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Yeah I did an instance with a not sooo great tank and it was a pretty horrible experience. Tank have to learn to stay still more in this game than any other.