PLD tanking every primal

In the primal vid they posted 2 days ago the primals are allways tanked by a paladin. I hope this doesnt mean that warriors are an inferior tank for endgame.

wars are supposed to be back up tanks mostly while being damage dealers heavy heavy damage dealers. I have no idea why anyone thinks a war should be a tank. PLD SHIELD HONOR STRENGTH. WAR TEAR SOME SH!T UP!

Ill trust the guy with the shield before ill trust the guy without one.

;P

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Originally Posted by MillenniumKing

Ill trust the guy with the shield before ill trust the guy without one.

;P

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^('.')^ what he said

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Originally Posted by Galione

wars are supposed to be back up tanks mostly while being damage dealers heavy heavy damage dealers. I have no idea why anyone thinks a war should be a tank. PLD SHIELD HONOR STRENGTH. WAR TEAR SOME SH!T UP!

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How is this really true? You'd not be able to queue if you were never designed to be a tank, and setting up the expectation that you are the pointman for an encounter but have to step aside from point for some dude with a shield seems unreasonable and, frankly, stupid. Warriors tank differently, including needing to take some damage to make some abilities work. There's a fear there, I think.

Take Death Knights in WoW, which tank without shields, or Druids. It's a different form of tanking, and it mostly means you use different skills for dealing with incoming damage, either through mitigation (parrying, which FFXIV Warriors get) or revenge mechanics (which FFXIV Warriors also get). It's a different challenge, and a tougher one; it means that Warrior tanking will be less easy than for Paladins. But that doesn't mean Paladin tanking is better.

This whole thing is an unfounded fear.

i suspect its more that PLD holds hate on single targets better than WAR, not that WAR cant do it.

something i intend to prove once the early access starts...

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Originally Posted by Galione

wars are supposed to be back up tanks mostly while being damage dealers heavy heavy damage dealers. I have no idea why anyone thinks a war should be a tank. PLD SHIELD HONOR STRENGTH. WAR TEAR SOME SH!T UP!

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This isn't 1.0... MRDs really don't do that much damage anymore.

PLD simply fits the tank image better, so they use it for trailers. That isn't to say MRD/WAR isn't a fine tank.

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Originally Posted by Balaur

How is this really true? You'd not be able to queue if you were never designed to be a tank, and setting up the expectation that you are the pointman for an encounter but have to step aside from point for some dude with a shield seems unreasonable and, frankly, stupid. Warriors tank differently, including needing to take some damage to make some abilities work. There's a fear there, I think.

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No I love war but frankly when playing it I feel the need to end the battle through the brute strength they have no focus my attention on gaining hate and provoking which can cost the battle mass amounts of damage over the course of the battle. More damage = less time spent in battle which in turn means less damage the PLD has to take which in turn means less stress on WHM. Simple formula that works every time.

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Originally Posted by Neasa

This isn't 1.0 anymore... MRDs really don't do that much damage anymore.

PLD simply fits the tank image better, so they use it for trailers. That isn't to say MRD/WAR isn't a fine tank.

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This is exactly it.

Speaking as a PLD main, WAR does just fine as a tank as well. That being said, PLD will always be superior.

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Originally Posted by Galione

No I love war but frankly when playing it I feel the need to end the battle through the brute strength they have no focus my attention on gaining hate and provoking which can cost the battle mass amounts of damage over the course of the battle. More damage = less time spent in battle which in turn means less damage the PLD has to take which in turn means less stress on WHM. Simple formula that works every time.

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WAR doesn't deal much more damage than PLD and they deal vastly inferior damage to actual DD classes like DRG and MNK.

If you're focusing on DD'ing as WAR, you are costing your group time and resources.

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Originally Posted by Neasa

This isn't 1.0 anymore... MRDs really don't do that much damage anymore.

PLD simply fits the tank image better, so they use it for trailers. That isn't to say MRD/WAR isn't a fine tank.

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while this is true about the nerfing of war they still do WAY more damage than PLD. So what is a PLD to do then. Just stop doing his job because he isn't worth anything outside of a meat shield? 1.0 was terrible because wars were better tanks now pld is better as they should be. Last to leave, First to die.

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Originally Posted by Neasa

This isn't 1.0 anymore... MRDs really don't do that much damage anymore.

PLD simply fits the tank image better, so they use it for trailers. That isn't to say MRD/WAR isn't a fine tank.

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Pretty much this. Yes in 1.0 MRD was HUGE AOE DAMAGE DEALER and held everything that wasn't on
the tank. And even the main mob many times. But now its damage has been tamed down a bit, just
to the point where it helps the MRD keep hate. It also heals itself by using certain skills and then
doing damage (similar to how it did) but it is actually balanced now. (yes war was very imba at 1.0) but
they're otw to balancing it as a pretty decent tank.

IDK, from what I've noticed MRD does a real good job of laying down damage, holding hate, and soaking hits with the massive HP pool it has. So don't think that PLD is end-all-be-all.

ok ok ok I'll go half way and say if a pld is not available use a war. Nothing wrong with that. On primals for sure they are going to have to play pong with damage control. I am being overzealous in admittance. I am just pissed at this situation. They ruined PLD and still have yet to make PLD what it always should be. Damage taker and momentary heal relief if really needed. Guess I am still stuck on what PLD has been through out the years of FF.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Speaking as a PLD main, WAR does just fine as a tank as well. That being said, PLD will always be superior.

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I disagree. They're about close seeing the model they used for MRD. Higher HP with built-in healing through damage.

I'll be just as happy to see the world first clear of Bahamut's Labyrinth using a WAR main tank as I would a PLD.

If it's possible to shelve our egos, we should call the videos what they are: promotional and image-based. The use of a Paladin in all of the promotions, including the benchmark, is an art thing: the pure white and gold armor is impressive looking, and that's as it is intended. But when it comes to different styles of tanking, a meatshield vs. metalshield style seems a fine split and that's it.

I think they both equally good in their own ways, for instance I think Paladin would be better at tanking monsters that tend to use more elemental damage, like Garuda using wind a lot or ifrit using fire a lot and so on, as for WAR I think they would be better at tanking monsters that tend to do more physical damage, beasts (behemoth) and stuff. We will know soon enough I guess, one more day ^^

I'm gonna be a cute little White Mage so this doesn't matter for me ^^

They used Paladin to avoid confusion, some people can't comprehend that anything but shields=tank
Frankly anyone who chooses Paladin over Warrior in 2.0 must have a white knight fetish or something, Paladin is much more boring in 2.0 meanwhile all of the Warrior abilities look amazing, and besides you totally get to feel like Conan the Barbarian swinging your axe around to hold agro instead of spamming Flash and hitting for abysmal damage

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Originally Posted by Pyrix

I'm gonna be a cute little White Mage so this doesn't matter for me ^^

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More healers the better IMO.

Not even 24 hours into the forum release and we're already at PLD & WAR arguing.

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Originally Posted by Ricky

They used Paladin to avoid confusion, some people can't comprehend that anything but shields=tank

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You had something good going on here. A friend of mine is still struggling with the idea of WAR as a two-hander tank despite having played a two-hander tank in WoW. As for why I'd choose PLD over WAR, I never liked axes.

Was there... even a real point to this post? How could you notice the paladin thing and not ALSO notice that the same group was also in all of them? As in the exact same group?

It doesn't matter if PLD or MRD, both can tank well and get the job done.

WAR and PLD are two completely different tanks.

PLD are tanking every Primal because PLD are far more suited to single mob tanking, PLD has damage reduction abilities and the ability to block as well as parry they are completely designed for single target tanking. Flash has short range and is not really effective for group tanking.

WAR is better at keeping hate with multiple mob simultaneously with relative ease.,WAR also has the most HP so it can soak the more abuse from more targets. It also has the ability to do decent damage,making it quicker to mow down multiple mobs. Most of War's HP+ through damage is based on the damage you do. War can maximize damage potential and healing, eliminating sponging.

That is not to say one cant do the other job effectively, PLD is designed for solo tanking but still has flash and can keep hate on multiples. WAR can solo tank anything because it can help maintain its own HP, it will also grain greater benefits from Stoneskin.

Stop arguing about Paladins and Warriors. The real issue here is.. Where are the Topaz Carbuncles??? I heard those are all the rage these days

xD

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Originally Posted by Kenka

Stop arguing about Paladins and Warriors. The real issue here is.. Where are the Topaz Carbuncles??? I heard those are all the rage these days

xD

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Taking Topaz to a serious note, they are only as potent as the Arcanist/Summoner stays alive. Those pets may be able to tank on par with PLD/WAR but once the master dies so does the pet. So you take a comparison like the primal fights into consideration, since they do use a lot of AOE abilities it becomes a balance of keeping the Arcanist/Summoner's low HP high while also making sure the pet doesn't die since unlike WAR/PLD they don't have an instant hate claim move like Provoke to fall back on once resummoned/raised.

Given the tools that both jobs have at the moment, I strongly believe that either job will be able to main tank anything in the game.

I honestly don't think that there's any need for such bitterness and anger.

Why is it not 25 hours from now already?

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Originally Posted by LucidDreams

Why is it not 25 hours from now already?

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I hate it when time advances one second per second!

I don't see why one class has to be better than the other.

People going to start banning certain dps classes because one might deal more damage than another?

yeah war sorta sucks now as DD....you would think a great axe to the face would hurt more than a pair of fists or a shield bash.

Another important note; shields do not increase DEF, they only increase blocking chance.

Blocking is great, but really is on par with parry. The disadvantage to both is that they do nothing to mitigate damage from unblockable attacks. When it comes to an enemy that flings magic around like it is going out of style, you will want the HP pool that WAR provides.

Playing Paladin I didn't find the conjurer skills too useful. Maybe raise the amount cure does on Paladin.

PLD just always seems to be the best all around tank.

Geez, at least get some archaeologists on-site before you go around digging up relics!

Oh this is old...I was about to go in on how WAR is better at pulling and....idk man.

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Originally Posted by Wrothgar77

PLD just always seems to be the best all around tank.

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*Gets in the ruins of an old civilization* Nice finding, I wonder what these tablets say... oh... they are just too old.

In this age, PLD is an excellent support OT. Their DPS is not only higher on an OT spot, but they can support the MT and party members with cover and intervention. WAR is the prefered MT because they have a bursty aggro/DPS opener that allows them to keep the boss on them with no DPS-loss.

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

In this age, PLD is an excellent support OT. Their DPS is not only higher on an OT spot, but they can support the MT and party members with cover and intervention. WAR is the prefered MT because they have a bursty aggro/DPS opener that allows them to keep the boss on them with no DPS-loss.

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Basically this.

It is pretty much impossible to keep aggro in sword oath. So while you can still tank in shield oath. Groups that optimize for dps, will usually run the PLD as OT and the WAR as MT (at least in the current state of the game).

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Originally Posted by Maekchu

Basically this.

It is pretty much impossible to keep aggro in sword oath. So while you can still tank in shield oath. Groups that optimize for dps, will usually run the PLD as OT and the WAR as MT (at least in the current state of the game).

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Its is by no means impossible to keep aggro in sword oath... if I do end up maintanking, I'll do one halone-combo in shield oath (maybe two, if there is a lot od DPS with a much better weapon as me - something that usually doesnt happen) and then switch to sword and almost never have to use a halone again. Holding aggro is virtually not a challenge anymore (specially not if your other tank uses shirk and your dps and healers make use of their aggro drops aswell - but even if they dont: aggro really isnt or shouldnt be a problem).

Thanks to support-skills and the significant dps-increase in sword-oath (because it also boosts your auto attack), PLD does make a great OT at the current state of the game though, that much is correct. Can still be MT though - even in sword oath.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Its is by no means impossible to keep aggro in sword oath... if I do end up maintanking, I'll do one halone-combo in shield oath (maybe two, if there is a lot od DPS with a much better weapon as me - something that usually doesnt happen) and then switch to sword and almost never have to use a halone again. Holding aggro is virtually not a challenge anymore (specially not if your other tank uses shirk and your dps and healers make use of their aggro drops aswell - but even if they dont: aggro really isnt or shouldnt be a problem).

Thanks to support-skills and the significant dps-increase in sword-oath (because it also boosts your auto attack), PLD does make a great OT at the current state of the game though, that much is correct. Can still be MT though - even in sword oath.

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Our raiding group started with me MTing, but had some issues keeping aggro without using stuff like the halone combo (optimizing for dps, the halone combo shouldn't even be part of your kit). So checked several end-game tank guides and the consensus seems that PLDs should be OT. We switched and life has been much easier since then. 'Impossible' was an exaggeration, but it is definitely much easier with the WAR as MT. You say holding aggro should not be an issue, but I would not want to be the poor PLD trying to keep aggro in sword oath on god kefka.

But I agree that such optimizations are mostly worth considering when trying to increase dps on the newest raid tier.