New Yoshitaka Amano CE Artwork

We all loved the Garuda artwork on the CE so much that we came here to ask the name and discuss it. Let's do that again with the new one.

http://cdn2.dualshockers.com/wp-cont...05/FFXIV-1.jpg

At the bottom, we see Bard, Dragoon, White Mage, Warrior, Paladin, Monk, Summoner, and Black Mage. (No Scholar. Big hint for people to give that one up?) Above that we see Gaius and Bahamut opposing one another over the mother crystal, which is being overseen by, or perhaps manifested as, ...

SIREN!?
BOW DOWN, FOR I AM YOUR LORE PROPHET.
(Kidding.)

It could very well just be Garuda again, however, Garuda's artwork had four head wings and this only has two; Garuda's had feathery shoulders and hers are bare; and Garuda is small potatoes these days. Thing is, Siren usually has her head wings in an upward point in contemporary representations. Does the consciousness of Hydaelyn manifest as a third woman with head wings?

Are you guys trolling me?

http://fandomania.com/wp-content/upl...t_straight.jpg

I think the lady is just a humanoid manifestation of Hydaelyn. The bottom of course are the "Warriors of Light" with Bahamut to the right and Gaius to the left. Was trying to figure out what that was that looked so weird about Gaius but I guess it's a cape.

Heh, I was wondering when this thread would show up. Definitely some Siren undertones in the image. :P

But now I also see something on the original CE's artwork... is that... the darklight gear??

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Originally Posted by Myranda

Is that... the darklight gear??

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It's similar, but a good case against it would be that he has a sword and shield and isn't wearing that two-piece tank armor with the head blades. I'm actually getting kind of an Ark Angel vibe off it.

She lacks the talons on the wings if she is Siren. If it's any Summon at all, my guess going by the halo + wings is; it is an angel? so Seraph?

I think its the "Mother Crystal" or Hydaelyn, and the Warriors of Light are leaving her protection after a 5 year stasis. That's how I interpreted the image anyway :D

That's Gaius? It looked like Odin to me at first glance. But now that I look at it, it does look like him.

Also, I hope to God they'll actually address the whole Scholar thing soon. It's gotten out of hand.

I, too, get the impression that it's a physical manifestation of Hydaelyn more than Siren (unless it's both). It's just one of the many LOC/Lore running-gags I like to keep alive, at least until we find out what's really up with her.

It's a great piece, though. I've always loved Amano's art because it so rarely looks like the in-game rendering. He captures a traditional Japanese artwork vibe that doesn't change from installment to installment and, together, they make a timeless collection of memories of the saga. It's like a stand-alone bonus to the series as a whole.

Bird Woman is Louisoux .... DUH!!!!




I get that the figure on the left is Gauis, but for the life of me I can't work out what position he is in. His horns are side on but I can't seem to figure out where his limbs are

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

I get that the figure on the left is Gauis, but for the life of me I can't work out what position he is in. His horns are side on but I can't seem to figure out where his limbs are

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It's a little pixelly, but I think he's falling backwards with one of his wrist guns pointed towards the viewer.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Does the consciousness of Hydaelyn manifest as a third woman with head wings?

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I took it to be a manifestation of Hydaelyn, sort of analogous to Altana of FFXI. The key hints for me were her god(dess)ly size and aetherial glow, and of course her wings embracing a great (large) Aetheryte crystal.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

(No Scholar. Big hint for people to give that one up?)

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Trololololol... ;)
Just don't look at the rest of the CE. The Scholar AF art (whether it depicts a Scholar job or some other job/class wearing the iconic Scholar AF) is on the back of the main CE box, and on the cover of the art book, and on the game DVD case, and on the game DVD. (JP versions) :D

The lady is definitely Hydaelyn. I would think that the mother crystal in the center and her wings being in the shape of a circle (symbolizing the planet) would be a dead give-away.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

The lady is definitely Hydaelyn. I would think that the mother crystal in the center and her wings being in the shape of a circle (symbolizing the planet) would be a dead give-away.

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Yeah, but what if Hydaelyn's *real* name is Siren, eh? Ah-ha!

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

Just don't look at the rest of the CE.

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With only 8 jobs on the cover itself, I'm thinking the likelihood that the "All Jobs" art image plastered everywhere is just trying to big up both the new class and job is growing slightly. I would have bought that they'd keep us in the dark about a second new job, but with how much work goes into it and how big a deal it'd be, I think it'd had made the Amano art if it was in for release.

It might be risky to do before E3, but I think I'm going to take my first step away from the middle towards "No SCH." Not declaring allegiance to the idea yet, but walking that way.

I'm on the side of "arcanist is the XIV name for scholar" since the arcanists of Maelvan's gate often get called "scholarlies" by people around town. It also wouldn't be the first time they've bent the name. "Secretary" springs to mind.

But yeah, back on topic. If it's not Hydaelyn, it's Nymeia.

My first thought was of a FFXIV version of Altana as well.

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Originally Posted by Magnesium02

I get that the figure on the left is Gauis, but for the life of me I can't work out what position he is in. His horns are side on but I can't seem to figure out where his limbs are

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It's Amano art, he can't figure where his limbs are either.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

(No Scholar. Big hint for people to give that one up?)

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Never.

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Originally Posted by Fern's Blog

Rumor has it that all of the gear shown here is actually in the game! Which would mean that bookish beauty in the mortar board on the far right is...!!!

Ahem!

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/10char?

I have always entertained the idea of the playable races having one common primal that gave them the power of the echo. That could be her, Ultima.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

I'm on the side of "arcanist is the XIV name for scholar" since the arcanists of Maelvan's gate often get called "scholarlies" by people around town. It also wouldn't be the first time they've bent the name. "Secretary" springs to mind.

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Pretty much this.

There's no denying that it looks like Scholar. It has the hat and everything. The thing is though, Arcanists are Scholars. Just look at this quest text from the quest "Seal Rock":

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Shortly after the island first appeared, the Knights of the Barracuda and the scholars at Mealvaan's Gate [Arcanist's Guild] began to suppress the rumors as well as possible while limiting access to the area for investigation, an authority immediately challenged by pirate and Sahagin alike.

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And some dialog as well!

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Sthalmann
There's little we can do about that now. Though it would have been nice to join the scholars on this trip.

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Source

In the end, both sides are right. It's just Arcanist, but the Arcanists of FFXIV are Scholars.

oh, awesome! I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought the goddess lady in the background was Hydaelyn--that was my first thought when i saw her there. i had to squint a bit to see Gaius, too, but there he was! i'm liking the theory someone mentioned where the adventurers are leaving the mother crystal to go out into hydaelyn/the world again.

it'd be very cool if it were Nymeia (she's my patron goddess so it'd be cool to see what she actually looked like!) but i don't think it matches her official description...i think in the old character creation screen where it described each of the Twelve, it says Nymeia's usually pictured with a spinning wheel/loom and a white veil or something.

also where in the hells did you guys get the idea of it being siren?! like...am i missing something? was it just because she was singing or something in the openings? or is there an actual giant theory post about it like there usually is? (because if so i'd like to read it!) ...if you really wanted to stretch it i guess maaaayybe they could make it so Hydaelyn and Siren are the same entity in some weird twist of fate...but still. :P

as for the scholar issue i don't care either way, but i am leaning to it being another name for ACN...the similarities to the official art of arcanist was uncanny. although with the new dev blog it's difficult to say for sure, since according to Ferne, all of the armor the characters are wearing in that one picture is in the game, so I think he's implying it to be another AF, in which case...yeah.

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Originally Posted by Fleurette

oh, awesome! I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought the goddess lady in the background was Hydaelyn--that was my first thought when i saw her there. i had to squint a bit to see Gaius, too, but there he was! i'm liking the theory someone mentioned where the adventurers are leaving the mother crystal to go out into hydaelyn/the world again.

it'd be very cool if it were Nymeia (she's my patron goddess so it'd be cool to see what she actually looked like!) but i don't think it matches her official description...i think in the old character creation screen where it described each of the Twelve, it says Nymeia's usually pictured with a spinning wheel/loom and a white veil or something.

also where in the hells did you guys get the idea of it being siren?! like...am i missing something? was it just because she was singing or something in the openings? or is there an actual giant theory post about it like there usually is? (because if so i'd like to read it!) ...if you really wanted to stretch it i guess maaaayybe they could make it so Hydaelyn and Siren are the same entity in some weird twist of fate...but still. :P

as for the scholar issue i don't care either way, but i am leaning to it being another name for ACN...the similarities to the official art of arcanist was uncanny. although with the new dev blog it's difficult to say for sure, since according to Ferne, all of the armor the characters are wearing in that one picture is in the game, so I think he's implying it to be another AF, in which case...yeah.

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It's a running thing across all the hard core lore fans. Basically it started with the idea of Siren giving players the gift of the Echo because of the associations with voice (like casting silence on enemies when summoned in previous games).

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Originally Posted by Fleurette

also where in the hells did you guys get the idea of it being siren?!

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I'm seeing you post around here more and more, I guess you should have a crash course XD

Long ago we were discussing what the hell Ifrit was talking about when he implied we had a primal. The sylph, too, mentioned something to the idea that we had one, but should not summon it. I've let it go for now, but it really does seem to imply that it's not just the Twelve we have access to.

It's possible that, much like like other primals are ancient deities from amongst the aether who latched onto a community, influencing its members and building a sort of cult, that one of these entities has taken an interest in us and, for the most part, we've been ignoring it for the Twelve.

Back then we had a lot less information, and one of the ideas was Siren. Keep in mind, this is before the Siren artwork was released, and it's a house of cards of a theory that was one of many speculations at the time.

Basically: We think we might have a primal; that primal possibly gave us the echo; when you get the echo you hear a harp melody; Siren has a harp; an NPC playing a harp plays the the song that you got when you woke to the echo; and the fact that we have the "The Echo" and are called "Woken" correlates to Siren's two main attacks, Hope Song, which silences you (silence bring cured by Echo drops/herbs and the attack itself sounding like the core idea of Answers in the first place), and Sleep.

Like I said, it's a house of cards - some of it disproven, some of it still possible but unlikely, some it it could easily be an auxiliary to the main story... but it was a pretty big open door for a few pages of GC Midlander, so it got a nod in Ferne's atomic lore bomb reply:

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Originally Posted by Fernehalwes

1. The beast tribes have their primals, so what about the 5 races? Do they have their own? Is it Siren? It’s Siren, right? It doesn’t matter if you tell me it’s not Siren, I know it’s Siren. (Please tell me it’s Siren...)

This is a touchy subject. I can tell you that you’ve done a remarkable job of picking up a lot of the subtle hints that were dropped in the 1.0 story (the Ifrit diatribe being an excellent example), but the story was served to you incomplete (in addition to being served over a period of two years), and so you’ve been left to fill in the blanks yourselves. This has lead to a lot of unnecessary confusion, and fixing this for ARR has been one of the main things that Yoshi-P has been preaching to the new quest team. In other words, release more info, with fewer gaps in-between, so that players can better follow the story. So what we’ll see happen in ARR is an influx of quests that try to paint a better picture of what was going on in 1.0. That means, for info regarding this ‘another’ of which Ifrit speaks and the ‘paragons’ who supposedly taught the beast tribes how to summon the primals, you’ll have to wait until ARR begins.

What I have been allowed to say is, the Sanguine Sirens are different from the sirens which are mentioned in the blacksmith/armorer class quests, and both are different from Siren of Final Fantasies past (who has not been mentioned in-game). And then there's the provisional artwork that was recently released...

So wait, does this mean there is no Siren primal? Well, that remains to be seen. :)

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Flash forward, sometimes when an unlikely theory or an unanswered primal question pops up, the knee-jerk reaction is SIREN! just for fun. For instance, in the Developer's Blog entry, NSFW!?

Much like pop-culture references hidden in quest titles and dialogue, or how people keep mistaking the ridiculous (and often hysterical) plural forms of item names for typos, it has become somewhat of a running-gag that embodies how our theories, especially my theories, are often like birdshot... the bulls-eye was probably hit by one of them pellets... maybe...

Ohh, gotcha! So...if I'm getting it right, it's something sort of like this:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...na92/siren.jpg

thank you for that fine lecture in lore theories 101, professor moose. it was very insightful. (and yeah honestly i would be posting here a lot more if i actually had stuff that was worth contributing...but usually i don't so i just watch from the sidelines. :P)

all memes aside, though, that is a really cool theory--i'm not as much learned about general FF lore as you guys probably are (so like the series' summons/primals and stuff were pretty new to me aside from like...ifrit. 'cause everyone knows ifrit.) since this is actually the first numbered FF I've played. (i figure the first crystal chronicles and tactics advance/2 don't count...) So the idea of it being Siren didn't really connect with me at first. But I can see why you found it a very real possibility.

I remember that dialogue about the five races having a primal all their own; I was really intrigued by the implications and remember doing research on it and i think right after the first glimpses of 2.0 came out people were assuming our primal was Odin (and a good few people in my linkshell agreed with that idea for a time) ...although at this point with the new info we've gotten which states he may have only appeared in Eorzea just recently (i think?), the outlook on that theory's changed a bit. Wasn't something also mentioned by the sylphs like "well, you guys probably have a primal supporting you, but the means of summoning it are far too advanced for you--even if you happen to find that out, JUST DO NOT DO IT because you will get messed up like the amalj'aa and the ixal" or something. i feel like i remember them saying something where they told us that the five races were just too simple to even comprehend how to summon a primal, and it could possibly corrupt us just like it did with the beast tribes. (and van darnus's actions before/during "To Kill a Raven" kind of prove this when he goes dalamud-crazy after calling forth the red moon, due to Bahamut's influence.)

...although i could be making stuff up. it's been over a year since i've done that quest.

anyways, either way it sounds like we'll be seeing Siren in some way/shape/form come ARR, so I'm sure we'll find out what her real purpose is soon enough. Although now that I think about it...we didn't hear Answers in the beginning cutscene of you-know-what, but we still got the "hear...feel...think" thing later on.

...oh man. do you think maybe it was siren in 1.0 but then she retired from giving people the echo because bahamut megaflare'd her vocal chords and so she gave her echo-giving powers to hydaelyn and then went to her beach home in la noscea?!?!?!

please no one take that seriously...

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Originally Posted by Fleurette

Ohh, gotcha! So...if I'm getting it right, it's something sort of like this:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h1...na92/siren.jpg

thank you for that fine lecture in lore theories 101, professor moose. it was very insightful. (and yeah honestly i would be posting here a lot more if i actually had stuff that was worth contributing...but usually i don't so i just watch from the sidelines. :P)

all memes aside, though, that is a really cool theory--i'm not as much learned about general FF lore as you guys probably are (so like the series' summons/primals and stuff were pretty new to me aside from like...ifrit. 'cause everyone knows ifrit.) since this is actually the first numbered FF I've played. (i figure the first crystal chronicles and tactics advance/2 don't count...) So the idea of it being Siren didn't really connect with me at first. But I can see why you found it a very real possibility.

I remember that dialogue about the five races having a primal all their own; I was really intrigued by the implications and remember doing research on it and i think right after the first glimpses of 2.0 came out people were assuming our primal was Odin (and a good few people in my linkshell agreed with that idea for a time) ...although at this point with the new info we've gotten which states he may have only appeared in Eorzea just recently (i think?), the outlook on that theory's changed a bit. Wasn't something also mentioned by the sylphs like "well, you guys probably have a primal supporting you, but the means of summoning it are far too advanced for you--even if you happen to find that out, JUST DO NOT DO IT because you will get messed up like the amalj'aa and the ixal" or something. i feel like i remember them saying something where they told us that the five races were just too simple to even comprehend how to summon a primal, and it could possibly corrupt us just like it did with the beast tribes. (and van darnus's actions before/during "To Kill a Raven" kind of prove this when he goes dalamud-crazy after calling forth the red moon, due to Bahamut's influence.)

...although i could be making stuff up. it's been over a year since i've done that quest.

anyways, either way it sounds like we'll be seeing Siren in some way/shape/form come ARR, so I'm sure we'll find out what her real purpose is soon enough. Although now that I think about it...we didn't hear Answers in the beginning cutscene of you-know-what, but we still got the "hear...feel...think" thing later on.

...oh man. do you think maybe it was siren in 1.0 but then she retired from giving people the echo because bahamut megaflare'd her vocal chords and so she gave her echo-giving powers to hydaelyn and then went to her beach home in la noscea?!?!?!

please no one take that seriously...

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We could indeed still have our own Primal, that's not ruled out yet. But a Primal could also smell like the Mother Crystal, especially if that's where aether/Primals come from. Like he's literally smelling his mama but doesn't know it's his mama. Which in the case of us having a Primal, it's obviously Siren!

As for the Beastmen and their Primals, don't forget the Paragon(s) taught them how to summon them. But according to Ifrit the Primals were warned by the Paragon(s) about the "godless blessed," which is assumed to be us with the Echo. Yet I still say the Paragons will have something to do with the Summoner Job-quests, after all it's a "lost art."

The voice that we heard in the final days of 1.0 and the "hear...feel...think," was the Mother Crystal. But we've seen the concept art for Siren so she has to fit in somewhere, she's definitely a Primal or at least definitely "should" be. Siren and Fenrir at least are the current unassigned (Elder) Primals.

As you can see, there are a few Lore topics where we are clued into what is obviously an important issue, but have only enough details to basically paint our picture with a barn brush. We could just never talk about these issues, but that doesn't help us get what facts we do have in order, nor is it fun. On the other hand, we'd surely start accidentally creating fanon if we took ourselves too seriously and started letting any theory go unquestioned. A fringe theory as a straw man does a lot of unexpected good, sometimes, lol.

We have no idea who this figure is behind the mother crystal. We can create a hierarchy. Statistically, it's most likely a manifest Hydaelyn. We've heard Hydaelyn's voice - she is female. ("Hear... Feel... Think"). Strangely, this art also shares much in visual common with two female primals we've seen so far.

Long story short, if anyone can offer dissuasive evidence that it is not the go-to fringe theory of Siren, we have an idea that has at least defeated the minimal proving ground possible. If that cannot even be done, we just get to throw quotes back and forth and joke about how it's obviously Siren.

Watch Mjollnir for other good examples. His imagination can run even more wild than mine on issues we have barely any evidence on, and on the days I can't burn a Mjollmnir straw man, I've got way more work to do before I act like I know jack.

Hydaelyn.
Also, it's hardly proof against SCH. The artwork for the cover may predate the decision to include a Scholar. I don't suppose GLA is the only playable class in 1.0 because of the cover now, do I?

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Originally Posted by Miliant

I don't suppose GLA is the only playable class in 1.0 because of the cover now, do I?

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That would have been an odd choice considering all the classes in the logo, but now that you mention it, anybody else remember when that logo confirmed samurai in 2010?

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...13-d484vzz.png

Bah, anyway, as of the self-deletion of my way-too-long ramble about logical hierarchies in the SCH thread... I'm retired from speculation about game mechanics. I live to lore.

On a lighter tone: All this Hydaelyn = Siren speculation has me wondering whether Claudia Black (v1's "hear...feel...think") will be returning. I think she'd be a great voice for Siren.

That box art looks familiar...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_RBYjFc-HyKQ/TC...0[2CD].jpg

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Originally Posted by Yrusama

That box art looks familiar...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_RBYjFc-HyKQ/TC...0[2CD].jpg

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How about dis? o_o

http://i.neoseeker.com/boxshots/R2Ft...9lEVpW62Ck.jpg

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

I took it to be a manifestation of Hydaelyn, sort of analogous to Altana of FFXI. The key hints for me were her god(dess)ly size and aetherial glow, and of course her wings embracing a great (large) Aetheryte crystal.

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Yeah, that's what I thought of. Altana.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I'm seeing you post around here more and more, I guess you should have a crash course XD

Long ago we were discussing what the hell Ifrit was talking about when he implied we had a primal. The sylph, too, mentioned something to the idea that we had one, but should not summon it. I've let it go for now, but it really does seem to imply that it's not just the Twelve we have access to.

It's possible that, much like like other primals are ancient deities from amongst the aether who latched onto a community, influencing its members and building a sort of cult, that one of these entities has taken an interest in us and, for the most part, we've been ignoring it for the Twelve.

Back then we had a lot less information, and one of the ideas was Siren. Keep in mind, this is before the Siren artwork was released, and it's a house of cards of a theory that was one of many speculations at the time.

Basically: We think we might have a primal; that primal possibly gave us the echo; when you get the echo you hear a harp melody; Siren has a harp; an NPC playing a harp plays the the song that you got when you woke to the echo; and the fact that we have the "The Echo" and are called "Woken" correlates to Siren's two main attacks, Hope Song, which silences you (silence bring cured by Echo drops/herbs and the attack itself sounding like the core idea of Answers in the first place), and Sleep.

Like I said, it's a house of cards - some of it disproven, some of it still possible but unlikely, some it it could easily be an auxiliary to the main story... but it was a pretty big open door for a few pages of GC Midlander, so it got a nod in Ferne's atomic lore bomb reply:



Flash forward, sometimes when an unlikely theory or an unanswered primal question pops up, the knee-jerk reaction is SIREN! just for fun. For instance, in the Developer's Blog entry, NSFW!?

Much like pop-culture references hidden in quest titles and dialogue, or how people keep mistaking the ridiculous (and often hysterical) plural forms of item names for typos, it has become somewhat of a running-gag that embodies how our theories, especially my theories, are often like birdshot... the bulls-eye was probably hit by one of them pellets... maybe...

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I know this has never been depicted in Final Fantasy, and Square is known for twisting mythology around for the sake of gameplay (Shiva = Ice?), but aren't Sirens known for leading sailors astray, if not to their doom?

Also, there was a Siren reference in 1.0 with the Blacksmith/Armorer quests. And I still think the winged lady artwork we saw months ago is Seraph.

So wait, what's the hierarchy for these people? Is it like:

Hydaelyn (Highest power)
The Twelve
Paragons
The Primals (lowest Power)

I'm gonna just say our "primal" is Hydaelyn. Only because that's what SE would do. As players, we are in some way stronger than everyone else (beastymen). Hydaelyn sees us as more than beastymen, so she uses us to protect the planet from the beastymen primals and the Empire. Empire was gonna destroy most of Eorzea (and part of Hydaelyn by proxy), so she awakens us to her presence. She gives us the power, not only to defeat the beastymen and their primals, but the Empire as well. Remember, it stresses the planet (and her) each time the primals are released, so she gives us power to stop the primals.

But then, why does Lu send us into a time warp using Thaliak? Wouldn't Hydaelyn save us? Maybe she ordered Thaliak to cast us into a time warp (or crystal stasis) to protect us. She may have been bracing for impact from Meteor and couldn't teleport us so she had Thaliak (and Lu) do it for her.

I dunno. I wanna believe we are important, more important and powerful than the beastymen. We wouldn't just have a primal, but Hydaelyn herself.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

I wanna believe we are important, more important and powerful than the beastymen. We wouldn't just have a primal, but Hydaelyn herself.

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I have reservations about the Shiva = Hydaelyn idea, too. Mostly, why would Hydaelyn's presence (as a primal) be draining on the planet, i.e. herself? There are some easy ways around that dilemma, but on the face of it, it seems odd.

Instead, I was thinking SE had left Shiva out of the primals page because they were holding back to reveal new beastmen (maybe in a distant patch). Yoshi-P mentioned dragon beastmen, but reptiles and cold seem like an odd mix, so maybe it would be another race of ice-related beastmen to pair with Shiva.

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Originally Posted by ArkhamNative

I have reservations about the Shiva = Hydaelyn idea, too. Mostly, why would Hydaelyn's presence (as a primal) be draining on the planet, i.e. herself? There are some easy ways around that dilemma, but on the face of it, it seems odd.

Instead, I was thinking SE had left Shiva out of the primals page because they were holding back to reveal new beastmen (maybe in a distant patch). Yoshi-P mentioned dragon beastmen, but reptiles and cold seem like an odd mix, so maybe it would be another race of ice-related beastmen to pair with Shiva.

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Shiva and Hydaelyn are 2 different people. Every time a primal is summoned, it weakens the planet. She uses us to stop the primals which keeps Hydaelyn healthy. If the Primals are made up of Aether, so must Hydaelyn. Assuming Ifrit's not an idiot and knows the other primals, when he states he can smell another primal but can't determine who, it could be Hydaelyn.

If Hydaelyn is the planet, she would be full of aether, more so than any other Primal. Ifrit may not realize he smells Hydaelyn.

course, I could be wrong and our Primal could be Bahamut for all we know lol.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

I think its the "Mother Crystal" or Hydaelyn, and the Warriors of Light are leaving her protection after a 5 year stasis. That's how I interpreted the image anyway :D

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Agreed.

I see the being in the artwork as a protector as well. And if she is the 'Mother Crystal'/Hydaelyn, that would make sense.

Mothers are know for being protective...but sometimes, that protection is highly violent. But I see no violence in that image, only protection. She might actually be part of the storyline that explains how we got 'ported to the future' unscathed. I see it being more likely that she is tied into the 'how we got to this point of the story/world history' than anything else atm. Of course, down the road, we might get to see the 'violent side'....who knows really.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

So wait, what's the hierarchy for these people? Is it like:

Hydaelyn (Highest power)
The Twelve
Paragons
The Primals (lowest Power)

I'm gonna just say our "primal" is Hydaelyn. Only because that's what SE would do. As players, we are in some way stronger than everyone else (beastymen). Hydaelyn sees us as more than beastymen, so she uses us to protect the planet from the beastymen primals and the Empire. Empire was gonna destroy most of Eorzea (and part of Hydaelyn by proxy), so she awakens us to her presence. She gives us the power, not only to defeat the beastymen and their primals, but the Empire as well. Remember, it stresses the planet (and her) each time the primals are released, so she gives us power to stop the primals.

But then, why does Lu send us into a time warp using Thaliak? Wouldn't Hydaelyn save us? Maybe she ordered Thaliak to cast us into a time warp (or crystal stasis) to protect us. She may have been bracing for impact from Meteor and couldn't teleport us so she had Thaliak (and Lu) do it for her.

I dunno. I wanna believe we are important, more important and powerful than the beastymen. We wouldn't just have a primal, but Hydaelyn herself.

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Hydaelyn -> Primals
The Twelve -> Archons

That's as much hierarchy I'd add to the story right now. The Primals need aether to be summoned, which they aren't summoned a lot for to be honest and the Beastmen use their hoarded Crystals/Shards for the rituals. Sure Crystals are crystalized aether but when they're summoned they aren't exactly draining the source of aether.

The Twelve are 'suppose' to be reincarnated as the Archons so essentially they're the same thing. But who knows if the Archons really are what we think they are, Urianger is pretty shady. Louisoix sends us away because that was probably Plan B. If the sealing spell failed (which it did) then those that could stop Bahamut needed to be safeguarded. Plan C is probably what happens after we're gone and continues in the rest of the End of an Era cutscene.

Speaking of Archons, has it ever been made clear who each Archon is and to which of the Twelve they belong?

I'm guessing Thaliak -> Louisoix, but what of the others?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bowen

Speaking of Archons, has it ever been made clear who each Archon is and to which of the Twelve they belong?

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It's murky. I tried to line them up once but I didn't get very far. Personally, I think it's a myth woven into tradition over the ages and, while Archons may exist, they do not incarnate the Twelve so much as serve their interests, or even just serve the interests of the people who believe in them. Where some people see angels, other people see saints, and others see just extraordinary people.

Knowing what I know now, I currently believe that the Circle of Knowing are just regular people who comprehend extraordinary truths due to their study of the prophecies, and that everything else about them is legend.