Do 1 hour abilities have a place in ARR?

As the title says, do you guys think 1 hour abilities have a place in ARR? I kind of miss them tbh. It's fun having that super awesome (if they make it that way) ability that you have to use sparingly that can save you from a tight situation.

Not sure but we kind of have that 15 minute skills

I do miss XI's 2-hour abilities, however the battle mechanics in that game (e.g. length of time to subdue a single, xp-granting mob) are a great deal slower than XIV's, where decisions on what WS/ability to use weighed much more heavily on the fight's outcome than what we had in both 1.0 and what we've seen of 2.0. (Even more so in this regard, from what we've seen so far in Alpha footage.)

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Originally Posted by Obsy

I do miss XI's 2-hour abilities, however the battle mechanics in that game (e.g. length of time to subdue a single, xp-granting mob) are a great deal slower than XIV's, where decisions on what WS/ability to use weighed much more heavily on the fight's outcome than what we had in both 1.0 and what we've seen of 2.0. (Even more so in this regard, from what we've seen so far in Alpha footage.)

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Those FFXI abilities have a 1-hour cooldown now.

That's nice. My point remains.

1 hour abilities in ffxiv would seem really out of place. Its a much more fast paced game - even 15 minutes seems too long. 10 would be better.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Those FFXI abilities have a 1-hour cooldown now.

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From what I understand, the original 2 hour abilities were reduced to 1 hour because SE are planning on adding a new set of 2 hour abilities for each Job in FFXI, thus the old ones were downgraded in a sense in preparation for this.

As 2 hour abilities in FFXI traditionally were kept in reserve 'for emergencies', and not just because of their long recast, but also because many were extreme hate magnets (PLD's Invincible and WHM's Benediction to name the two worst offenders), if they were approached in the same way in FFXIV they could work as Job only abilities.

But as has been said, 2 hour cooldowns are a bit extreme for FFXIV's more faster-paced battle system, so a much reduced cooldown would be necessary (say, half an hour or something). That way it stops abuse if it was even less but still keeps it in reserve as a 'emergency/get out of jail free card'.

Irony is, a number of Job-only abilities in FFXIV were originally 2 hour abilities in FFXI ;) .

ARR combat is too much faster than XI combat to have 1hr cooldown abilities. Hell 1.0 combat was too much faster than XI combat for 1hrs. If the 1.0 15m abilities arent still 15min, they'll be shorter cooldown, not longer.

It's been said before but we don't really need 1 hour buffs especially since this is fast paced game and we get full party and light party buffs...

I don't understand the whole combat is "to fast" argument for 1hr/2hr abilities?

To me it should work just the same as it did in XI, they were abilities that you held on to for that emergency we are almost dead or finishing blow to the battle target. Why could you not do this in FFXIV? It would be used for the very same purpose.

Are people so worried about people not knowing when to use the abilities at the right time that it will cause a party wipe because of them?

I mean people need to learn how to use their class/job. But epic fancy movies. (yeah I intended to say moves, but spelt movies but left it because it actually kinda applies!)

I say movies, because powerful abilities that triggers cutscenes were the best part of Final Fantasy series. I know it's pretty hard to get a party to sit still to watch a CS for a combat action when it's not single player. But that doesn't change the fact that it is not FF to have such abilities with CS's.

While, CS may be a bit much for a 2hr ability it's really my way of emphasizing that the 1hr/2hr abilities need to be EPIC!

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

I say movies, because powerful abilities that triggers cutscenes were the best part of Final Fantasy series. I know it's pretty hard to get a party to sit still to watch a CS for a combat action when it's not single player. But that doesn't change the fact that it is not FF to have such abilities with CS's.

While, CS may be a bit much for a 2hr ability it's really my way of emphasizing that the 1hr/2hr abilities need to be EPIC!

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FFXIV: ARR's Summoner's 2hr ability - Eternal Breath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLu4...layer_embedded

/makeasandwich+readanovel+takeashower - Still not done yet?

I agree with Linkurrra epic 2 hr movies are acceptable I am quite partial to Gladiator with Russell Crowe. But even though a 2hr ability can fit into the scheme I don't think it should be the rule. As we all know from FFXI some 2hr abilities are quite lacking so instead of having them for every class they go case by case basis. Plus there are other limitations they can tag on instead of extended timer for very strong abilities. Like pre reqs where you must be at this % of HP or MP or the enemy is at % HP. There are also the extra payment for abilities such as along with TP you pay MP or HP but to go even further with statistical debuffs beyond just stances. All can be used for balancing purposes instead of just timers.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

FFXIV: ARR's Summoner's 2hr ability - Eternal Breath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLu4...layer_embedded

/makeasandwich+readanovel+takeashower - Still not done yet?

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I seem to have completely misunderstood the thread. I thought the OP meant a buff that lasts for one or two hours like in other games not a move that last one or two hours. Honestly I don't like that idea because what if you use that against a boss like the chimera to finish it off and the caster dced or someone in your party dced while waiting for the move to finish.... they would lose the loot from the chimera and possibly have to redo the dungeon if it was a part of a mission

I don't miss them, at all. Especially if the animation following it isn't worth the 1h wait, and if the animation is pretty, I want to see it more often, not wait 1h for a tee-hee second of joy. Not sure if we will get them, the limit breaks might fill the super move slot. . . .

I believe you can consider our 1 hr, 2hr ability to be our limit breaks to be coming. You build them up and then release them for awesomeness - the longer build ups making higher tier awesome.

I believe it was a build up at least.. and some relation to parties (like in that one trailer everyone helped the BLM call down a meteor), though I dont know if it was said if you can or can't do one by your self.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I believe you can consider our 1 hr, 2hr ability to be our limit breaks to be coming. You build them up and then release them for awesomeness - the longer build ups making higher tier awesome.

I believe it was a build up at least.. and some relation to parties (like in that one trailer everyone helped the BLM call down a meteor), though I dont know if it was said if you can or can't do one by your self.

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The interviews that mentioned it stated it like a party wide commitment similar to a regiment so I suppose the bar/points/timer that attributes to being able to release limit breaks are shared by the party.

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Originally Posted by Kirito

I seem to have completely misunderstood the thread. I thought the OP meant a buff that lasts for one or two hours like in other games not a move that last one or two hours. Honestly I don't like that idea because what if you use that against a boss like the chimera to finish it off and the caster dced or someone in your party dced while waiting for the move to finish.... they would lose the loot from the chimera and possibly have to redo the dungeon if it was a part of a mission

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Oh, no, my post was in reply to the person I quoted, who mentioned cutscenes after triggering certain moves in battles. I understand the topic was in regards to the cooldown of the ability - I was just trying to go for a bit of exaggerated humour. :<

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

FFXIV: ARR's Summoner's 2hr ability - Eternal Breath.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aLu4...layer_embedded

/makeasandwich+readanovel+takeashower - Still not done yet?

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Second best summon in FFVIII ever.

Now see...the idea of an ability with such a long timer is outdated in this day and age. Back in XI, before the advent of WoW, it was made to where you're only doing like 1 or maybe 2 contents a day, so the meticulous planning and utilization of 2hr abilities fit there. Fast forward to present MMOs where the typical approach to content is to grind them or otherwise repeat for an extended amount of time. Having 2hr or even 1hr abilities really would put an artificial restraint on the amount of content you can do in any given amount of time. I think the 15m abilities work well. Not overpowered, but not weak...there in a pinch when you need it 1-2 times per content.

Primal summon will most likely take more than 2 hours to unlock with your free company. there you have it. it is what it is.

I'll like to see a 1 hour ability, and maybe something like this: "Damage and recast varies with TP ". An 1 hour ability that consume 1/2 of your current TP. More TP you have more damage and recast. With 1000 TP, it consumes 500 TP, doing full damage of the ability and a recast of 1 hour. With 500 TP, it consules 250, doing 1/2 of the damage and recast of 30 min.

As much as I sort of like the idea of a tactical "uh-oh" button. From a game design perspective it's a huge miss-step. I remember SE commenting to the effect buried way back in the annals of FFXI official comments.

Any end-game content has to be designed under the assumption that every party member will have access to their 2-hour, as to do otherwise would trivialize the content with the use of 2-hours. But by balancing in that manner, you make all content have a unintentional mandatory 2-hour cool down. It can be worked around by artificially extending the length of the battle (longer battles reduce the relative effect of any single action). But it effectively tied SE's hands and forced them to do much more work per encounter than was necessary.

Before people jump on me saying that it wasn't that way at all. I was speaking about very early on in the game's life. SE "solved" the problem by slowly trivializing the 2-hours to the point where they were rarely worth the time it took to use them, which kind of defeated the purpose of them.

I think this Limit Break system is a much better approach to the same idea. They can balance battles around the assumption that eventually any given party will be able to shoot off a LB without the same temporal restrictions.

I prefer big abilities to have a short cooldown. I recall going constantly afk in FFXI waiting for our 2 hours to reset before we attempt a boss battle.

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Originally Posted by Kirito

I seem to have completely misunderstood the thread. I thought the OP meant a buff that lasts for one or two hours like in other games not a move that last one or two hours. Honestly I don't like that idea because what if you use that against a boss like the chimera to finish it off and the caster dced or someone in your party dced while waiting for the move to finish.... they would lose the loot from the chimera and possibly have to redo the dungeon if it was a part of a mission

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It seems you didn't play FFXI... so, it's nothing like what you are imagining.

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Originally Posted by Sakasa

I agree with Linkurrra epic 2 hr movies are acceptable I am quite partial to Gladiator with Russell Crowe. But even though a 2hr ability can fit into the scheme I don't think it should be the rule. As we all know from FFXI some 2hr abilities are quite lacking so instead of having them for every class they go case by case basis. Plus there are other limitations they can tag on instead of extended timer for very strong abilities. Like pre reqs where you must be at this % of HP or MP or the enemy is at % HP. There are also the extra payment for abilities such as along with TP you pay MP or HP but to go even further with statistical debuffs beyond just stances. All can be used for balancing purposes instead of just timers.

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LOL I hope you guys didn't seriously think I was asking for 2hr long moves! I only meant the animations for a 1/2hr ability should last 1min or less. I was just trying to emphasis how they should make it be EPIC! lol

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I believe you can consider our 1 hr, 2hr ability to be our limit breaks to be coming. You build them up and then release them for awesomeness - the longer build ups making higher tier awesome.

I believe it was a build up at least.. and some relation to parties (like in that one trailer everyone helped the BLM call down a meteor), though I dont know if it was said if you can or can't do one by your self.

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I completely agree that 2hr ability options are pretty much just like Limitbreaks except they are without the time restriction. and maybe this is a better solution!

However, I still say that a good CS in combat that would involve the entire party would be interesting. Now I understand that I am comparing an MMO to a singleplayer FF game. However, it is part of Final Fantasy.

I also understand the concern that somebody might DC and not get the loot when the mob dies. but quite honestly there isn't even a solution for this in 1.0. If you DC you leave the instance and have to run back from the beginining. If everybody leaves the instance before the player gets back they just miss out on the loot! Especially on bind on pickup items that can't be shared by other party members. Although I think they did make a change to that where within a X amount of time you could trade the items within your party before bind on pickup was permanent. but only with party members.

The nature of instances, cause these problems and can't really be avoided. Except by don't get disconnected if you can help it.

With that out of the way, adding a CS on a Limit Break or 1 or 2hr ability won't really change looting from DC'ing, its going to happen either way. Why not have a movie to watch?

One other thing they could do is not initiate the CS unless it is the killing blow! That way you won't have to worry about sync issues if other players skip the CS. Or make the movies unskippable and just make it part of the ability!

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Originally Posted by vax

I'll like to see a 1 hour ability, and maybe something like this: "Damage and recast varies with TP ". An 1 hour ability that consume 1/2 of your current TP. More TP you have more damage and recast. With 1000 TP, it consumes 500 TP, doing full damage of the ability and a recast of 1 hour. With 500 TP, it consules 250, doing 1/2 of the damage and recast of 30 min.

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I can see why you'd want that for 1.0 since you build up TP but in 2.0, from the looks of the videos, the TP starts at 1000 TP

The Strength of Man unlock from LotRO. It was a human racial that healed 2200 to 3000 morale and at 50, that was pretty much all of it. It was a reset skill, 1hr cool down. I would use it to solo rare world Signature spawns. Others could do that without their racial but my Captain wasn't suited for solo stuff and he needed that one off. The cool down was never an issue because it was a once a day thing to see them and that assumed you stayed in the same area the entire time and knew where they spawned.

I don't know if there is a place for stuff like that in FF14. Everything I encountered in FF14 was either I-Win or I-Lose and a one off wouldn't have been an influence.

These have existed since the first MMOs. (EQ1 had Lay of Hands [full heal] for Paladins.) Back in the day, they really were game changers, and could be used to "turn the tide" of battle.

I think they can (and should) exist any nearly any MMO. Specifically tuned to the mechanics of that game. In more recent games, a LOH (full heal) type of ability is just not as substantial compared to older MMOs (for example, the "Full Heal" of the Cleric in EQ1 was a big deal. In current MMOs a single healer can get a tank from nearly dead to full HPs in moments. Combat in MMOs have changed over time, and because of this "epic" abilities have changed as well.)

It doesn't mean the abilites have no place in the game, but it does mean they need to be tailored to the game directly in order to really make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Linkurrra

LOL I hope you guys didn't seriously think I was asking for 2hr long moves! I only meant the animations for a 1/2hr ability should last 1min or less. I was just trying to emphasis how they should make it be EPIC! lol

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Oh no I just really like Gladiator and like to plug it any chance i get

I'd say why not?

That said, there's probably a balancing issue. To adress this would take a serious amount of time . . .

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Originally Posted by Kirito

I can see why you'd want that for 1.0 since you build up TP but in 2.0, from the looks of the videos, the TP starts at 1000 TP

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I know, but who know if on the future the TP bar will be longer, like 2k. Also TP can regenerate with songs and abilities.

I don't see the purpose of 1-hour/2-hour abilities besides having some sort of signature move/"wow cool" thing.

They're something that was used in FFXI either for beating an NM/boss, or incase of imminent exp party wipe.

The latter scenario, in FFXIV, does not penalize people as heavily, can be more easily recovered from, and it's probably going to happen a lot less given that it's going to be more solo centric.

The former scenario, it becomes either a crutch or an IWIN button. Who remembers Dynamis Lord? Yeah, you couldn't beat that without two-hours, so if you had to blow them on something else or if you didn't kill him without them active, well tough s**t. Every other NM that didn't need 2-hours became a free win when people popped their 2-hours.

It basically lowered the skill floor considerably for the majority of the game.

I'd rather see signature moves be on a 10-20 minute cooldown, such that they're really only usable once per fight, not once per session/dungeon/whatever.