Water Spell for conjurer is back?

It seems to me when i look at the new video:

(rightclick -> view image)
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/al...6464663763.jpg

The skill on the Fourth slot...1rst slot is attack mode, 2nd Stone , 3rd Wind, 4th Water, 5th cure.
Protes skill looks different, and it cant be regen because its a whm spell (in 1.0.).. but it looks very water alike to me, if you ask me. its more likeley that he put all damage spells together in a row.. and its a low level character, so that i think it is going to be water spell.

http://youtu.be/asqskpLYwrI (at 3:25)

Appears so, however I wouldn't speculate too hard, as I can't even tell if that character is level 1 or level 20 and the HP / MP seem a lot lower than in 1.0 if it's level 20 (As it says near the EXP Bar)

Although it is roughly the same colour as the cure spell so meh, could be a healing spell, could be water.

Well doesnt it have the old "wavy" symbol? i dont have a screenshot of the old water icon anymore.. but i think it was almost the same. i can see waves in there.

old water icon: http://www.ffxivorigin.com/content/ability/water.png
old cure icon: http://www.ffxivorigin.com/content/ability/cure.png

new water and new cure icon:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/al...6261353539.jpg



but well.. what does it help for... a conjurer does not use his attack spells very often. i still think it would have been better to switch all damage skills all over to Black mage again, so that he can use all elements depending on the enemy. and giving whm/conjurer the traditional astral spells like holy, banish, banishga etc (my opinion). but well.

Oh yah, I'm a Conjurer 50 (Main) and I think they should give the nukes (aside from holy obviously) to Black Mage.

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

Oh yah, I'm a Conjurer 50 (Main) and I think they should give the nukes (aside from holy obviously) to Black Mage.

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Give THM/BLM the elemental wheel, and give CNJ/WHM astral/umbral. Pretty much the opposite of how mages used to work, but it makes more sense that way.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

Give THM/BLM the elemental wheel, and give CNJ/WHM astral/umbral. Pretty much the opposite of how mages used to work, but it makes more sense that way.

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totally agreed.

it does make no sense to split the element spells into two classes...
the sense of the elemental wheel in FF is, that you have different mob types of different element weaknesses which you have to recognize.

and according to that you have to use the right element to do the most damage. but in each situation black mage wont have the perfect element against the opponent... white mage wont use the damage spells very often in group battles, nor does he deal big damage with it..

so it really would make way more sense to give black mage access to all elemental spells... and as you said the astral/umbral spells to whm. that the whm can nuke from time to time when he wants to.

But yah it's safe to say that is water. But now I wish it weren't.

It is water. Conjurer gets this spell from a guild quest in ARR.

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

But yah it's safe to say that is water. But now I wish it weren't.

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.. because? ^^

One thing to remember about the CNJ attack spells is that... They actually all give debuffs. Sure, nobody gives a cleyran's backside to them in current 1.0 but we can have hopes for debuffs in ARR, right?

Right now, Stone deals M.Eva Down, Stonera Slows, Aero has a DoT and Aerora has Dispel. Maybe those will be useful in the future and Water/Watera can carry their own useful debuffs.

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Originally Posted by Skies

One thing to remember about the CNJ attack spells is that... They actually all give debuffs. Sure, nobody gives a cleyran's backside to them in current 1.0 but we can have hopes for debuffs in ARR, right?

Right now, Stone deals M.Eva Down, Stonera Slows, Aero has a DoT and Aerora has Dispel. Maybe those will be useful in the future and Water/Watera can carry their own useful debuffs.

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well my suggestion personally would be that water heals a small HP amount to all friendly players who are near the specific opponent.

but maybe then they would only use water attack dont know ^^

lol yall seem to forget whm in the beginning had water earth air spells in one of the final fantasy games. whm/cnj will have attack spells. gw2 rift even wow ur healers had some form of attack spells. yall need to adjust with the times and get of ff11 mechanics.

That's not FFXI mechanics that's universal FF Mechanics :) Whitemages don't get elemental spells. Unless that element is Light. I don't see why Whitemages can't have some forgive the WoW spell names "Smite" or "Holy Fire" kinda spells.

I miss my FFXI BLM lol and how i had the right thing for every fight but oh well.. in FFXI tho a monster was weak to something and almost if not completely immune to everything else whereas in FFXIV you can still heavy damage monsters with spells that aren't their main weakness

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Originally Posted by Endigiont

That's not FFXI mechanics that's universal FF Mechanics :) Whitemages don't get elemental spells. Unless that element is Light. I don't see why Whitemages can't have some forgive the WoW spell names "Smite" or "Holy Fire" kinda spells.

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You should play more before saying those things :/

Aero was first introduced as a whm spell in FF3. Then it became blue magic and only on XI did it become blm.

Now, both water and earth (quake/stone) have been in fact black magic, but I do find it cool that they divided the elemental wheel for blm and whm. Fits the conjurer lore perfectly that they can manipulate the simple/naturey elements, and that blms can conjure more "artificial" elements.

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Originally Posted by dbrewer225

lol yall seem to forget whm in the beginning had water earth air spells in one of the final fantasy games. whm/cnj will have attack spells. gw2 rift even wow ur healers had some form of attack spells. yall need to adjust with the times and get of ff11 mechanics.

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the WHM in FF11 had also attack spells?

Banish, Holy... well forgot about it?.....
and its just a matter of balancing how less or how much damage they deal..

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Originally Posted by Warlock

I miss my FFXI BLM lol and how i had the right thing for every fight but oh well.. in FFXI tho a monster was weak to something and almost if not completely immune to everything else whereas in FFXIV you can still heavy damage monsters with spells that aren't their main weakness

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hm when i used fire against fire elementals they almost did no damage at all (around 98~140 dmg.. when i used wind it was about 240~320 dmg..

the right element was still important ... and i am sure, when you use thunder against ramuh for example you wont do that much damage against it. the right element would be stone, where black mage would have no access to.

The thing that separates FFXIV from FFXI is that there are actually 2 elemental wheels in FFXIV, not one:

Fire > Ice > Wind > ...

Lightning > Water > Earth > ...

Enemies are essentially weak against the element that dominate theirs, they're either resistant to or absorbing their own element, and they're resistant to the element their own dominates. All 3 elements from the opposite wheel will give normal damage.

That means that in all cases, both CNJ and THM have spells that will AT LEAST deal normal damage if not critical

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

totally agreed.

it does make no sense to split the element spells into two classes...
the sense of the elemental wheel in FF is, that you have different mob types of different element weaknesses which you have to recognize.

and according to that you have to use the right element to do the most damage. but in each situation black mage wont have the perfect element against the opponent... white mage wont use the damage spells very often in group battles, nor does he deal big damage with it..

so it really would make way more sense to give black mage access to all elemental spells... and as you said the astral/umbral spells to whm. that the whm can nuke from time to time when he wants to.

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However traditionally in FF games Black Mages (or their equivalent) tend to be given access to Fire, Ice and Lightning. There are a small few exceptions, the biggest one being XI.

I don't see any issue with the elemental spells being separated, as long as they're all present it's fine. Plus Stonera and Aerora give WHM a bit more utility, it's not just about damage. In Rivenroad Hard, having dispells not tied up with the busy BLMs was quite useful.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Well doesnt it have the old "wavy" symbol? i dont have a screenshot of the old water icon anymore.. but i think it was almost the same. i can see waves in there.

old water icon: http://www.ffxivorigin.com/content/ability/water.png
old cure icon: http://www.ffxivorigin.com/content/ability/cure.png

new water and new cure icon:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/al...6261353539.jpg



but well.. what does it help for... a conjurer does not use his attack spells very often. i still think it would have been better to switch all damage skills all over to Black mage again, so that he can use all elements depending on the enemy. and giving whm/conjurer the traditional astral spells like holy, banish, banishga etc (my opinion). but well.

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if your whm aint nuking, he's only doing half his job

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Originally Posted by Majidah

if your whm aint nuking, he's only doing half his job

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oh you are so pro... i want to see you nuking in situations where your group members lose 30%-40% hp each attack .... and you know there are often these situations...

its no secret that a blm nukes 100% more than a whm.. but well.. maybe it was just you. you have been in the top 3 of your party when it comes to damage dealing and running a parser in the background, eh?..
and im not talking about moogle whm burn groups..

im getting to old to read some kind of shit like that. people who want just to play themselve into the foreground "see im so pro"...


give me a screenshot of your whm leading the damage dealing list in your garuda group or instanced runs.. then you have my respect. but i doubt it hardly. firstly a good whm equips healer and not nuker equipment.. secondly to make any decent damage you should have switched on "sacred prism" (-20% heal , +20% off. damage). and i dont really know anyone who uses that in any instance ..


thirdly he casts earth from time to time to reduce magic evasion... and for the fourth... i said conjurer did not cast attack spells "very often". stfu with your "pro" post.. really.

Lol quichy,

I've been main PLD for as long as I can remember in XIV. And let me tell you, a Good WHM will always be on the Parse. Sure they will be at the bottom, but even in Garuda a SOLO whm is expected pull 2-5k damage.

So how about you Stfu bitching at people because you cannot live up to the standards of other players.


PS: Even solo whm in Ifrit X my whm was nuking.

As long as this mean white mages will have one less heal and hopefully something more useful I am all for it. 3x cura was more than enough. Group heal or a nice Debuff would be awesome.


Be reply stone it is really useful on van Darnus I snuck in a few between heals, also no damage would mean no ability to solo level which for a new Mage would be a problem.

Slow parts like the first phase of Garuda. Instead of sitting on your ass waiting for something to cure, use Stone on Garuda to help the BLMs at least. The reduced M-evasion pretty much ensures that an OK to well geared BLM will never miss a combo.

I see no issues with WHM getting a different form of offense. In past FF games (XI included) the WHM would have a hammer or other blunt weapon, giving it a minuscule amount of melee damage. Of course it's not impressive at all but at least it's SOMETHING (example: Dagger in FF9 can deal some pretty OK damage with a racket in certain scenarios).

Given the fact that WHMs in 1.XX can't use any form of "hammer or club" (I do not consider wand a club like in XI), I see no reason why they shouldn't have some spells at their disposal, especially considering how we don't have "holy elemental" at our disposal like Dia or Banish (beastmen get all the fun ._.)

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Originally Posted by Junpei

Lol quichy,

I've been main PLD for as long as I can remember in XIV. And let me tell you, a Good WHM will always be on the Parse. Sure they will be at the bottom, but even in Garuda a SOLO whm is expected pull 2-5k damage.

So how about you Stfu bitching at people because you cannot live up to the standards of other players.

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Oh really?.. i had also about 2-4 k dmg with whm at garuda.. blabla blub.. such a stupid pro writing in here.. BECAUSE YOU CANT EVEN READ!!!

i wrote

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but well.. what does it help for...conjurer does not use his offensive skills primarily

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i deal 2-3 k dmg in a bossfight (which is on the LOWEST EDGE) of the party.. NOW combine this with that what i did exactly wrote..

and she writes "oh you really do something wrong, when you dont nuke at all"... like insulting myself being a bad whm.. although she does not know me.

did she read my posts? no she didnt.. she implied something that she wanted to read.. or just wanted to say "ah you are such a bad player... or hi i am so proo.." (so annoying in this forum here really)


the only one who started stupid bitching (because the only one who needed to put a treat on) was her... but thanks for this not understanding anything at all... but hopefully you understood now, you so pro called player..

*sigh

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

oh you are so pro... i want to see you nuking in situations where your group members lose 30%-40% hp each attack .... and you know there are often these situations...

its no secret that a blm nukes 100% more than a whm.. but well.. maybe it was just you. you have been in the top 3 of your party when it comes to damage dealing and running a parser in the background, eh?..
and im not talking about moogle whm burn groups..

im getting to old to read some kind of shit like that. people who want just to play themselve into the foreground "see im so pro"...


give me a screenshot of your whm leading the damage dealing list in your garuda group or instanced runs.. then you have my respect. but i doubt it hardly. firstly a good whm equips healer and not nuker equipment.. secondly to make any decent damage you should have switched on "sacred prism" (-20% heal , +20% off. damage). and i dont really know anyone who uses that in any instance ..


thirdly he casts earth from time to time to reduce magic evasion... and for the fourth... i said conjurer did not cast attack spells "very often". stfu with your "pro" post.. really.

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I stopped reading at "oh you are so pro".

WHM has always been in control of stone, water, and wind elements since the start. examples: stoneskin, blink, aero, cure, poisona etc.

I hope they add in an abundance of spells for ARR. I don't mind too much which class gets the spell (as long as it makes sense.) but I always felt everything was a bit limited in selection for 1.0. I enjoyed the large number spells casting jobs got in FFXI. But as for the original topic, I'm glad they re-added water for CNJ/WHM.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I stopped reading at "oh you are so pro".

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you already stopped reading at the original posting where you "replied" to...

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Originally Posted by Andrien

WHM has always been in control of stone, water, and wind elements since the start. examples: stoneskin, blink, aero, cure, poisona etc.

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you are partly right, although cure isnt water based ;)

Maybe water can also be used as types of different healing besides holy type spells?

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

you are partly right, although cure isnt water based ;)

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It is in this game, just listen to its sound effects. its just like water. Cleansing.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

It is in this game, just listen to its sound effects. its just like water. Cleansing.

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but it also may be astral... like holy, banish etc... because it looks like light and not like water

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...FFXIV_Cure.jpg

but well what are we talking about.. its just a forum speculation that cure is a water type element.

Actually, a dev made a post back in the day saying the Conjurer controlled Water element spells, and that 'it should be obvious' what spell was related to the water. And water has always been related with healing attributes (healing water, holy water, potions).

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

but it also may be astral... like holy, banish etc... because it looks like light and not like water

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...FFXIV_Cure.jpg

but well what are we talking about.. its just a forum speculation that cure is a water type element.

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Originally Cure was going to be like WHM throwing a bucket of cold water at your face :D

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Originally Cure was going to be like WHM throwing a bucket of cold water at your face :D

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Explains why Cures cure Sleep status

Water, Wind and Earth are all spells of life and healing (In FF)... so it does make sense for the Healing heavy classes to have them

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Originally Posted by Junpei

Lol quichy,

I've been main PLD for as long as I can remember in XIV. And let me tell you, a Good WHM will always be on the Parse. Sure they will be at the bottom, but even in Garuda a SOLO whm is expected pull 2-5k damage.

So how about you Stfu bitching at people because you cannot live up to the standards of other players.


PS: Even solo whm in Ifrit X my whm was nuking.

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I agree that Whm should nuke given the opportunity.

However it is totally dependent on the rest of the party on if you get the time or not. Herpa derp DD or tanks who don't perform their own tasks correctly will cause the Whm to do nothing but heal because they are A) Not using their abilities properly ie tank not mitigating dmg, DD not stunning Chimera etc etc or B) They are not concerned with where they are standing ie. Step on cracks, stand in Garuda wind plumes, not kill sleeping plume, blms not casting all at same time so the 'fast blm' doesn't get torn apart by the 8 mobs they just flared.

Over all it is a team effort and no matter your job you need to do it correctly so that your other members can do theirs too. It makes a world of difference.

Eg. When my Relic group first started doing AV 17, it was a problem.. nowadays you get to miser and its buff, regen, DD, DD, DD, regen, DD, DD, DD Miser dead (for me as the Whm.)

But... who knows if it will change in 2.0 ^^

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

but it also may be astral... like holy, banish etc... because it looks like light and not like water

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...FFXIV_Cure.jpg

but well what are we talking about.. its just a forum speculation that cure is a water type element.

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its not a speculation. even in that picture cure looks liquid-ish.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

There aren't any water-based attack spells, but conjurers do control water-based spells. The break down of elements are as follows:
CNJ: Water/Wind/Earth
THM: Fire/Ice/Lightning

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Originally Posted by Andrien

its not a speculation. even in that picture cure looks liquid-ish.

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here's a picture from awhile back, definitely liquid-ish

http://i.imgur.com/Weo5Ql.jpg

Maybe they have plans to expand upon this? :) 2 jobs per class? Maybe they're focusing more on the idea that the class will be an all rounder to what its jobs can provide more in depth?

Either way I don't know why so many people are bothered.. >< Just because it's not like every other Final Fantasy game doesn't mean it is limited by that..

edit: How else are they going to level? Let's not make levelling the primary healing class boring...

I'm fine with WHM having the current nukes, plus a Water line. The fight where I've had most fun was when I was the nuking WHM in "The Raven, Nevermore". Main WHM was someone else, and I was on support and nuking/debuff/dispel duty. Needless to say it was a blast, and pulled off around 33k damage on our winning run, while still being "traditionally useful" to the party.

I think it adds variety to the job, and gives it some solo possibilities, without having to rely to melee (which was mostly the case in FFXI). Just my opinion, though.

Yea I can see whm having water and holy type spells.