Seems like alot of people want this game to become Free 2 Play. >.>

I honestly Don't get why people can't Sacrifice 2 Value meals at Mcdonalds/Burger King/ KFC whatever. I mean come on.. every time Something new goes up on FFXIV People say "F2P"? or "F2P or no play" idn why but nothing in this world is free even F2P, and some people say F2P gives Regular Updates just as a P2P would, Is that true?

Also, Isn't F2P games Generally have Crappy Graphics? ( Low Quality because its F2P?) Just something that's been bugging me lately and I'm not sure why people just want this kind of thing just because it has the word "Free" in it. >.>.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I honestly Don't get why people can't Sacrifice 2 Value meals at Mcdonalds/Burger King/ KFC whatever. I mean come on.. every time Something new goes up on FFXIV People say "F2P"? or "F2P or no play" idn why but nothing in this world is free even F2P, and some people say F2P gives Regular Updates just as a P2P would, Is that true?

Also, Isn't F2P games Generally have Crappy Graphics? ( Low Quality because its F2P?) Just something that's been bugging me lately and I'm not sure why people just want this kind of thing just because it has the word "Free" in it. >.>.

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Oh lord.
/10char

F2P MMOs are generally low quality yes -- Most want it free so they don't have to continually pay for something that might be good, hence why piracy is slowly killing off every bit of freedom people who actually purchase games enjoyed.

Most people who say those kind of comments wouldn't pay subs for any other MMO anyway. It's nothing new.

GW2 is f2p and getting good reviews. just means a company will find a way to make the money in another way~

i don't want it to go free to play and I sacrifice a lot to play this game and to pay for it since I'm on FMLA for my vocal issues. I'll do whatever I can to pay to play this game... now the discount legacy members get is nice though

for some reason... I'm hungry, I don't know why..

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Originally Posted by Andrien

for some reason... I'm hungry, I don't know why..

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http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cD-Big-Mac.jpg

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Originally Posted by Fyres

GW2 is f2p and getting good reviews. just means a company will find a way to make the money in another way~

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Diablo 3 also got good reviews at first, for what it's worth. I'm going to wait after the honeymoon period is over before I start taking any of them seriously.

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Originally Posted by Amherst

Diablo 3 also got good reviews at first, for what it's worth. I'm going to wait after the honeymoon period is over before I start taking any of them seriously.

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And the new car smell is replaced with the smell of regret and disappointment.

Yet another thread where F2P = bad quality / P2P = amazing game. Consumers are evolving. Business models are evolving. Companies are just trying to deliver what would satisfy most of their customers (and thus generate a higher income for them).

5 years ago it was the exact same thing about DLCs, everyone was complaining "what? paying more for a game I already purchased!". While now, lot of consumers are used to it and don't hesitate to pay. Instead of making forum thread to complain about F2P, start understanding why this business model is becoming more and more popular in the video game industry. (Not only MMO, but all sort of games. TF2 or LoL are very good example as well.)

F2P done right is just as fine as P2P done right. This have nothing to do with users not wanting to spend 2 MCD value meal a month in a product.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

And the new car smell is replaced with the smell of regret and disappointment.

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I don't see how for D3. Lot of players had fun at least for couple playthroughs. Sure when you arrive at Inferno, it became annoying etc. But to get there and to get 60, you needed to play a good 40 hours. That's 40 hours of enjoyment for the price of one game. Which isn't too bad nowadays when you compare it to an average console game...

I liked Uncharted 2, I completed it once, never played it again. Do I have regrets? No. Same for D3. I played couple of months, enjoyed it. For £27.72 (amazon preorder) it did worth it.

Well there 1 thing all F2P games have in common.. there Graphics are meh. If FFXIV was F2P Model from the start, would the graphics be the same as they are now and what we seen in FFXIV: ARR?

I'd like to add;

Eve Online gives free expansions. Also has option to pay for subs with in game currency.

Phatasy Star online 2 is free with 740k subs and growing. (and thats only in Japan)

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Originally Posted by Antipika

Yet another thread where F2P = bad quality / P2P = amazing game. Consumers are evolving. Business models are evolving. Companies are just trying to deliver what would satisfy most of their customers (and thus generate a higher income for them).

5 years ago it was the exact same thing about DLCs, everyone was complaining "what? paying more for a game I already purchased!". While now, lot of consumers are used to it and don't hesitate to pay. Instead of making forum thread to complain about P2P, start understanding why this business model is becoming more and more popular in the video game industry. (Not only MMO, but all sort of games. TF2 or LoL are very good example as well.)

F2P done right is just as fine as P2P done right. This have nothing to do with users not wanting to spend 2 MCD value meal a month in a product.

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actually it's more about people thinking if it's worth it or not. it all dependent on the person's point of view. Some people don't want to give up their extra value meals because to them the game isn't worth playing. then there are other people who are willing to pay to play the game and will do almost anything (bar robbing banks) to be able to pay for it (I know a few people who will starve themselves because they don't have the money granted I'll bitch at them for starving themselves and offer them money through like paypal and stuff like that) Also sometimes there is a quality issue not just with the game itself but player base too. Dc Universe is an example it's free to play but kinda crappy at that. it's ok for an free to play but it's not great in any sense also the player base isn't all what it's cracked up to be. there are a few other free to play mmo's that i've played and wasn't too thrilled with them because they weren't very good games and they would get you for your money or try to in other ways. But that's just my opinion on the matter

Ehh...F2P doesn't bother me it at all, it's actually quite convenient. I get to purchase the game and try it out for a good while, before I start throwing money at it. Now this is where things get hairy for me, the main reason I like a sub model is because I know how much I'm going to spend each month on the game. If I'm instead buying other things like extra chars and paying for special gear and such....I'm simply not interested. I can't stand the games where you have to pay to actually get ahead in the game...

I could see FFXIV doing a F2P model with freebie access having limited access to content, storage, classes ect. The freebie part serves to get you hooked to the game. Than have a sub option for people who find out that they do like the game!XD

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Originally Posted by Jokerz

Ehh...F2P doesn't bother me it at all, it's actually quite convenient. I get to purchase the game and try it out for a good while, before I start throwing money at it. Now this is where things get hairy for me, the main reason I like a sub model is because I know how much I'm going to spend each month on the game. If I'm instead buying other things like extra chars and paying for special gear and such....I'm simply not interested. I can't stand the games where you have to pay to actually get ahead in the game...

I could see FFXIV doing a F2P model with freebie access having limited access to content, storage, classes ect. The freebie part serves to get you hooked to the game. Than have a sub option for people who find out that they do like the game!XD

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I think that's why they tend to do a 30 day free trial and if you want you can cancel sub after that. Also I'm hoping they allow buddy passes which you can give to friends or so so they can try the game free for about 30 days and decide if they want to play the game

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Originally Posted by Antipika

F2P done right is just as fine as P2P done right. This have nothing to do with users not wanting to spend 2 MCD value meal a month in a product.

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No, it's more of wanting to actually be on an equal playing field. With P2P it's straightforward. You either feel you get your money's worth, or you don't and base your decision to keep playing or not on that. At the end of the day assuming everyone has only one sub they're all paying the same exact price. With F2P you have to factor in a lot of other things. Is there a playtime limit? Do you need to pay real cash for items? How about content limits? Gacha coins? When F2P is done "right" you don't feel as if you need to spend money to progress, but want to because what they're offering is appealing and not rammed down your throat.

But come on. Be honest; just how often are F2P models done "right"? I can't really speak for GW2 as I obviously haven't played it yet, but I've played several online games over the years and only really feel that one title has ever found a nice balance, that being Phantasy Star Online 2.

A F2P done right is just as fine as P2P done right. In that same way, a fine cut of meat can be prepared just as well as a professional chef as someone with no real formal training. It's possible, but it's really, really unlikely to happen. That's why so many people in general are opposed to the F2P model. It has much more potential to nickel and dime someone then actually turn out well, and if such poor practices become widespread, then it would be a real shame for the genre. Certainly not for the businesses, but definitely for the genre as a whole save for the people who had no intention of spending money on anything regardless of what it may be.

and those people get bored and will quit in a few weeks anyways. I absolutely despise F2P. Please for the love of god keep this game P2P.

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Originally Posted by Amherst

But come on. Be honest; just how often are F2P models done "right"? I can't really speak for GW2 as I obviously haven't played it yet, but I've played several online games over the years and only really feel that one title has ever found a nice balance, that being Phantasy Star Online 2.

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Pretty much this -- I've played quite a lot of them and honestly F2P games almost never get it right, some come close but that all depends on the future as PSO2 can get it horribly wrong in a major update that may actually damage itself to the point it bleeds for awhile and fail to recover.

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It's possible, but it's really, really unlikely to happen. That's why so many people in general are opposed to the F2P model.

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This too.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...d-unsubscribed

"The Old Republic stumbles; Guild Wars 2 soars. Is the age of the subscription completely finished?

As the advent of increasingly powerful and accessible digital distribution platforms continues to wreak havoc on traditional business and revenue models in the games industry, one business model appears to have collapsed faster than others - the monthly subscription. As little as half a decade ago, nearly every publisher on the planet seemed to want a slice of subscription action. Spurred on by the success of Blizzard's World of Warcraft, they poured tens of millions of dollars into creating massively multiplayer worlds which would give them access to the kind of recurring monthly revenue that had made Blizzard into the most bankable company in the business.

We all know what happened. While Blizzard continued to grow - and despite recent decline, it's still operating the most commercially successful game on the planet - almost everyone else failed miserably. Some titles dared to be radically different and found a profitable niche, like CCP's extraordinary EVE Online or Square Enix' stylistically gorgeous (and console-friendly) Final Fantasy XI. Most copied WoW, to greater or lesser degrees of competence, and fell far short of commercial expectations.

Today, the subscription model is dead in the water. Electronic Arts' Star Wars: The Old Republic was a hugely expensive final roll of the dice; in the coming weeks it will complete its transition to a free to play business model, less than a year after launching to immense fanfare with a WoW style "pay up front, pay again next month" revenue model........"

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Originally Posted by Rannie

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cD-Big-Mac.jpg

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That reminded me why I never been to a McDonald's the past10 years.

Oh that and the employee putting his stinky feet inside the lettuce
Another putting a boogie inside the meat
Another rubbing the bread on his crouch

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Originally Posted by Jokerz

Ehh...F2P doesn't bother me it at all, it's actually quite convenient. I get to purchase the game and try it out for a good while, before I start throwing money at it. Now this is where things get hairy for me, the main reason I like a sub model is because I know how much I'm going to spend each month on the game. If I'm instead buying other things like extra chars and paying for special gear and such....I'm simply not interested. I can't stand the games where you have to pay to actually get ahead in the game...

I could see FFXIV doing a F2P model with freebie access having limited access to content, storage, classes ect. The freebie part serves to get you hooked to the game. Than have a sub option for people who find out that they do like the game!XD

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No. F2p are for millionaires only.

Am I crazy?

No

You get to play for free, but to be able
To compete with others, you gotta shell thousands of dollars on legendary items every month.

So , no thanks. We don't need lineage crap style here.

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Originally Posted by Noir

That reminded me why I never been to a McDonald's the past10 years.

Oh that and the employee putting his stinky feet inside the lettuce
Another putting a boogie inside the meat
Another rubbing the bread on his crouch

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Pitty this happens more everywhere else compared to mcdonalds.

lol agreed about the only thing I eat at mcdonalds is the chicken nuggets and that's sparingly

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Originally Posted by Antipika

F2P done right is just as fine as P2P done right. This have nothing to do with users not wanting to spend 2 MCD value meal a month in a product.

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I champion your efforts but you most likely won't convince most vocals on this forums as they are pretty set in their ways and won't change their minds until FFXIV itself adopts a hybrid or freemium model. Never mind that most AAA games these days are operated this way, until a brand new high budget game releases with a model similar to LotrO, Eq2, AoC and so on you are pretty much wasting energy on the debate.

Just wait in the shadows and one day it'll happen. All online games will offer a subscription and freemium option as well. I wonder if people forget that in AAA mmos that are supposed "F2P", you CAN still pay for the same monthly fee you did before for the same benefits people argue for P2P only. People want to keep their preciousness free of what they view as 'undesirables' and thus make up these so called facts to make themselves feel better about hanging on to their ways. Nothing new.

It's pretty much just like the 'oh noes jumping will ruin the game!11' No it won't.

Rather than asking what F2P is done right, ask how many P2P released after 2006 still stand and generated decent profit (covered DEV cost + upkeep cost)? How many in proportion to F2P games?

All right, you see the answer. Now try to think as a company having to choose a business model and you will understand why F2P looks appealing. LoL is done right. TF2 is done right. D3 is done right. GW2 is done right. PSO2 is done right.

Aion F2P was done right too and SWTOR freemium looks good as well.

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Originally Posted by Cendres

I champion your efforts but you most likely won't convince most vocals on this forums as they are pretty set in their ways and won't change their minds until FFXIV itself adopts a hybrid or freemium model. Never mind that most AAA games these days are operated this way, until a brand new high budget game releases with a model similar to LotrO, Eq2, AoC and so on you are pretty much wasting energy on the debate.

Just wait in the shadows and one day it'll happen. All online games will offer a subscription and freemium option as well. I wonder if people forget that in AAA mmos that are supposed "F2P", you CAN still pay for the same monthly fee you did before for the same benefits people argue for P2P only. People want to keep their preciousness free of what they view as 'undesirables' and thus make up these so called facts to make themselves feel better about hanging on to their ways. Nothing new.

It's pretty much just like the 'oh noes jumping will ruin the game!11' No it won't.

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Yeah sadly :/ I'm pretty convinced that freemium will be the standard soon enough anyway.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Pitty this happens more everywhere else compared to mcdonalds.

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When somewhere else's food bring a steel stomach like mine to its knees I will agree with you.

Mcdonalds did. Now I know why. Thanks you tube

The more people say "no F2P I no play" the better, we don't need people sacrificing their burger money or our precious time interacting with them.

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Originally Posted by Noir

No. F2p are for millionaires only.

Am I crazy?

No

You get to play for free, but to be able
To compete with others, you gotta shell thousands of dollars on legendary items every month.

So , no thanks. We don't need lineage crap style here.

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Way to half read my post-.-

No matter how you slice it F2P MMOs have the Worst Graphics ( even GW2 I saw HD Videos and they seem to have that Generic MMO look). WoW's Cartoony Scenery is better than F2P graphics, and I dislike WoW.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

No matter how you slice it F2P MMOs have the Worst Graphics ( even GW2 I saw HD Videos and they seem to have that Generic MMO look). WoW's Cartoony Scenery is better than F2P graphics, and I dislike WoW.

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Business model have nothing to do with graphics quality. It's just that lot of F2P game are small budget titles, so yes they cannot afford to use an amazing engine for their game.

Square Enix have always been ahead when it comes to CGI and (Singleplayer) engines. Look at how beautiful XIII is. FF is a major brand, it must shine. XIV had to look nice.

Your barking at wind Antipika...

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Originally Posted by Antipika

Business model have nothing to do with graphics quality. It's just that lot of F2P game are small budget titles, so yes they cannot afford to use an amazing engine for their game.

Square Enix have always been ahead when it comes to CGI and (Singleplayer) engines. Look at how beautiful XIII is. FF is a major brand, it must shine. XIV had to look nice.

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Most Companies do F2P because they can't afford to make those better Graphics.. if there was a F2P model with the kind of Graphics FFXIV has, then I'll be impressed, If the game has a boring feel to it ( graphics wise), after while people will leave because the game is getting stale.

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Originally Posted by Jokerz

Your barking at wind Antipika...

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Don't play with fire now, you may get burned :P

In Maplestory, one of the early free to play pioneers, you can easily spend thousands of dolars on consumable pay-for-power items to make your gear better. Some people assume free always means better but it is rarely the case. There are a few games like League of Legends that do not have any kind of paying for power (you can pay for gaining the privilege of playing in ELO Hell sooner, but that's about it) and manage to be successful, but these are rare exceptions.

Subscription model isn't what's dead, making a good game that launches well seems to be what is. Subscriptions (as you know by now) count on a good launch, otherwise you lose too many subscribers early on and content development stalls.

P.S. "graphics" and "companies" are not proper nouns and should not be capitalized.

P.P.S. F2P games don't all have bad graphics, not that graphics make the game in the first place.

P.S. Grammer nazis XD
P.S.S. They all have that same "Generic" look about them though, but every single F2P MMO I tried turned me away because the graphics wasn't there. ( But that's getting personal).

The problem with F2P games is the community they attract.

This game's community doesn't smell like roses, in all honesty, but at least we can have somewhat civilized discussions on these forums. The in game community is better still, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. Case in point: My playtime in GW2 is largely done alone, since most of the people are just there 'cause it's the new hotness. So many "lolthx"'s and "dude wtf wat r u doin lol f****t"'s.

No F2P means none of those people. I'm ok with that.

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The problem with F2P games is the community they attract.

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For the most part I agree, but you tend to get a bit of the "It's my $x.95/month, I can do what I want" attitude now and then. It's not as bad as some of the free players in a lot of other games though.

P2P games wont ever die just like you have idiots saying the Iphone is gonna take over handheld gaming, as long as ppl want AAA games they gonna pay for it. When you have a game like WoW with 10+ mil subs ppl are still gonna push for that P2P model regardless.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

The problem with F2P games is the community they attract.

This game's community doesn't smell like roses, in all honesty, but at least we can have somewhat civilized discussions on these forums. The in game community is better still, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. Case in point: My playtime in GW2 is largely done alone, since most of the people are just there 'cause it's the new hotness. So many "lolthx"'s and "dude wtf wat r u doin lol f****t"'s.

No F2P means none of those people. I'm ok with that.

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I kinda wanna lol at it because it doesn't always happen but I know what you're getting at. Though there are just some people we want to smack around going wtf are you stupid why are you still posting on these forums!!!! But yeah with the f2p games do tend to bring in the bad crowds or the asshole players a lot of the time and there really isn't much that can be done about it because no one gets paid to be a gm in the game so they don't bother with any type of policing. At least in the subbed games if a person's account is hacked or someone is being a dickwad in the game something happens to them ergo jail or temp suspension of an account. There a lot of times not anything like that in the f2p.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

The problem with F2P games is the community they attract.

This game's community doesn't smell like roses, in all honesty, but at least we can have somewhat civilized discussions on these forums. The in game community is better still, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. Case in point: My playtime in GW2 is largely done alone, since most of the people are just there 'cause it's the new hotness. So many "lolthx"'s and "dude wtf wat r u doin lol f****t"'s.

No F2P means none of those people. I'm ok with that.

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Now business model is linked to the quality of a community :confused:

Wait until ARR release, if the game become slightly popular, EN forums will just become even worse than they are now. WoW forum quality is horrible, yet the game is P2P last time I checked... If you want quality forums, you need a strict moderation. That's not happening here. While blatant violations are taken care of (insults etc.), trolling isn't. It would require lot of manpower.