Let us have overworld PVP

Now hear me out, overworld PVP resitricted to party members only just for the fun of it. No pvp hotbars either, it could be useful for practicing rotations or savage raids like someone pretending to be the boss etc. If you die just instant revive or regular revive we got phoenix downs!

If anything if I'm married to a player at least let me PVP them in the overworld for funsies!!!

EDIT: There would be no rewards for fighting people. Limited to only your party members hell even just friends. Purely for fun but I can see how griefing would be inevitable (war flashbacks to my time in Black Desert). Blue Mage already has a cooldown that stops you from self destructing, so if you totally want to knock someone out theres that option. I also feel like making the PVE commands on players would not be hard (for it's purpose for entertainment and not winning). Have it be something along the lines of Player attacks on other players do 90% less damage than to mobs etc. And have that parameter only on the overworld so the black mage star flare aoe does not affect you in an actual duty. AGAIN, this idea is for just pure entertainment, bored during queue? Lemme hit you with glare. Having an argument with your friend? Let me auto attack you. Hell maybe let us just auto attack each other! For people who want to RP a fight? Hell yea. People doing fight club RP venues? none of my business....

PURELY FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND GIVING ME THE OPTION TO BONK MY FRIENDS

I do agree we need more PVP zones period, we have the colosseum in Ul'dah, Ishgard, and the arcadion now, but thats a whole separate thing.

I'm targeting cats and hyur.

If it's just party members? Then yeah, having little duels can be fun. It'd be like how sometimes, my friends and I will just find a spot and duel in Elden Ring Seamless Co-Op runs. So that's a fun idea.

But fullscale overworld pvp that encourages ganking and noobhunting? That's where I will always say "Nah." Because, it could never work in this game. From how quest steps work to just, flying mounts, what about gatherers, the list just sorta goes on till you realize "Oh yeah, this could never work here..." Like, think of just how many times you have to go out to Matoya's Cave for MSQ. People will set up to gank folks there.

But what OP suggests? Yeah, that sounds fun.

Frankly, I'd rather have the Dueling Circles outside the Wolves' Den as a first step. Especially around/in military camps. You can jump in, or you can safely spectate outside, or you can ignore them, however you like. Since the functionality is already there, in the Wolves' Den, that wouldn't take much resources to implement.

Moving other modes, in particular Frontlines, into suitably cordoned-off but still visible and watchable portions of the overworld would be the next step, but that takes significantly more work.

The main issue is finding a lore reason for it. All the grand companies are friends. The Warrior of Light has united everyone and made everything peaceful. If there is ever a slither of war, the Warrior of Light mops it up quick and dusts their hands.

The lore reason for the PvP we have already is that we are PLAY FIGHTING or you could interpret it as doing military drills.

The only form of PvP that I could see making sense for real is adventurers vs thieves, and the villains would essentially try to steal things or cause damage via open world events, while those aligned as adventurers stop them. Or certain world events could be the tempered vs the untempered, so some players are elementally corrupted by a local tribe's primal.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The main issue is finding a lore reason for it. All the grand companies are friends. The Warrior of Light has united everyone and made everything peaceful. If there is ever a slither of war, the Warrior of Light mops it up quick and dusts their hands.

The lore reason for the PvP we have already is that we are PLAY FIGHTING or you could interpret it as doing military drills.

The only form of PvP that I could see making sense for real is adventurers vs thieves, and the villains would essentially try to steal things or cause damage via open world events, while those aligned as adventurers stop them. Or certain world events could be the tempered vs the untempered, so some players are elementally corrupted by a local tribe's primal.

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I mean, if it is purely in the sense of pvp within the party. It's pretty easy. Duels, comrades testing each others strength, beating a lesson into that one stubborn member of the adventuring party. List can kinda go on.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The main issue is finding a lore reason for it. All the grand companies are friends. The Warrior of Light has united everyone and made everything peaceful. If there is ever a slither of war, the Warrior of Light mops it up quick and dusts their hands.

The lore reason for the PvP we have already is that we are PLAY FIGHTING or you could interpret it as doing military drills.

The only form of PvP that I could see making sense for real is adventurers vs thieves, and the villains would essentially try to steal things or cause damage via open world events, while those aligned as adventurers stop them. Or certain world events could be the tempered vs the untempered, so some players are elementally corrupted by a local tribe's primal.

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It could be as simple as some sort of dueling thingy involving adventurers in the Adventurers Guild. We're all part of the Guild.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The main issue is finding a lore reason for it. All the grand companies are friends. The Warrior of Light has united everyone and made everything peaceful. If there is ever a slither of war, the Warrior of Light mops it up quick and dusts their hands.

The lore reason for the PvP we have already is that we are PLAY FIGHTING or you could interpret it as doing military drills.

The only form of PvP that I could see making sense for real is adventurers vs thieves, and the villains would essentially try to steal things or cause damage via open world events, while those aligned as adventurers stop them. Or certain world events could be the tempered vs the untempered, so some players are elementally corrupted by a local tribe's primal.

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Easy enough lore reason: You're all adventurers and some of you like fighting each other.

I feel like the reason they don't even do it is because pvp toolkits are enabled through the duty/area you are in (see wolves den pier for example).

Although I guess the OP is asking for pve toolkits to be used anyway which is interesting, but on the other hand you'd oneshot anybody within 2 GCDs of the opener of any job.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The main issue is finding a lore reason for it. All the grand companies are friends. The Warrior of Light has united everyone and made everything peaceful. If there is ever a slither of war, the Warrior of Light mops it up quick and dusts their hands.

The lore reason for the PvP we have already is that we are PLAY FIGHTING or you could interpret it as doing military drills.

The only form of PvP that I could see making sense for real is adventurers vs thieves, and the villains would essentially try to steal things or cause damage via open world events, while those aligned as adventurers stop them. Or certain world events could be the tempered vs the untempered, so some players are elementally corrupted by a local tribe's primal.

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Why would the reason be different than for frontline, cc or rival wings, the dueling circle or whatever?

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Originally Posted by slommy

Now hear me out, overworld PVP resitricted to party members only just for the fun of it. No pvp hotbars either, it could be useful for practicing rotations or savage raids like someone pretending to be the boss etc. If you die just instant revive or regular revive we got phoenix downs!

If anything if I'm married to a player at least let me PVP them in the overworld for funsies!!!

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Overworld PVP died the moment they turned PvP into a Moba with its own hotbars and no Gear. I doubt they will waste the ressources to balance every class and every skill for occasional overworld pvp between friends in a group.
If you wanna argue that they didn't have to balance it, what would be the point? You would be forced to play whats the strongest or lose outright.

What overworld?

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Originally Posted by Valence

Why would the reason be different than for frontline, cc or rival wings, the dueling circle or whatever?

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Because they are like military drills or competitions in especially-made arenas or especially-designated areas, whereas in the open world it would be less formal, more spontaneous, and the best reason I can think of in this game that fits the lore is that there are bandits and thieves which adventurers tackle.

We could have had it so people align as garleans in order to be an opposing player, but at a certain point in the story, even they are meant to be over and done with.

So we're all supposed to be WOL sworn to defend Eorzea from threats.

Why do you want us to start suddenly killing each other in open world pvp?

Anyone read the original Feast blurb? It's shockingly descriptive with its detailing on maiming and the like. Sure it's metaphorical I guess, but dang. Actually, just gonna go ahead and post it actually:

"The table is set, and the wolves gather for the Feast! Will you gorge on the flesh of your foes, or find yourself served on a platter? Only the most savage of beasts are invited to this banquet─you'll need fangs of steel and an endless thirst for blood! Wait not for the tolling of the culling bell! Devour your rivals, take their hides for trophies, and build a hunter's throne from their bones!"

That doesn't sound very friendly, does it. Yeah okay it might just be overzealous pirate talk (or maybe Zenos was commissioned for it who knows), but still lol.

Honestly the reason we won't see it is because of how poorly a state the overworld is in (even PvE wise). That and likely "resource costs" for having that would likely take the form of a separate instance to make sure the PvE-only (the bulk of the playerbase) peeps don't freak out, and that's not worth it for the devs I'd imagine (nor is it fun for me, as I like to tag players out for easy prey).

I'd love for something like that to exist, but with the standard PvP toolkit -- no need to overcomplicate things -- but yeah... it won't happen. ED: some early concept art showing some war machines and such in FL also didn't happen (maybe that became RW in spirit?) but... kinda safe to say more open venues for PvP are off the table when Worqor, which you can vaguely play as an open world PvP sim for its size and abundance of natural cover, provided you have a spine, was taken very badly on average per forum feedback.

I would settle for just being able to do more competitive mini-games in the wild, but even Triple Triad has restrictions on where you can challenge people, and there's not much incentive to do it even when you're in the right place.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

So we're all supposed to be WOL sworn to defend Eorzea from threats.

Why do you want us to start suddenly killing each other in open world pvp?

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Just treat it as non canon, my god. We're already forced to be a goody two shoes in the msq, at least let us have fun outside of it.

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Originally Posted by Grimforth

So we're all supposed to be WOL sworn to defend Eorzea from threats.

Why do you want us to start suddenly killing each other in open world pvp?

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There's supposedly only a single WoL anyway, not hordes of them. Let me introduce you to that new thing called "suspension of disbelief"

Re: the proposal, party members only is pointless. I'd rather have free-for-all pvp servers.

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Originally Posted by Ankhira

Easy enough lore reason: You're all adventurers and some of you like fighting each other.

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Then the Wolves' Den Pier has all you need with the dueling arena.

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Originally Posted by slommy

Now hear me out, overworld PVP resitricted to party members only just for the fun of it. No pvp hotbars either, it could be useful for practicing rotations or savage raids like someone pretending to be the boss etc. If you die just instant revive or regular revive we got phoenix downs!

If anything if I'm married to a player at least let me PVP them in the overworld for funsies!!!

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Without having specially made skills for PvP then this open world PvP will never work becase the PvE skills are simply way too unbalanced for PvP.

And both healers and tanks would dominate entire open world PvP due to healers healing is extremely strong and tanks have insane amount of self-sustain and damage mitigation.

While I'm interested in the idea of open-world PvP, unfortunately, I very much doubt it would ever come into being and I can understand why.

On the plus side, it would give players a new way to casually PvP without having to travel to the Wolves Den or queue for duties with random players, something which may feel daunting for new players. It could also be one small step to introducing new players to PvP. Even if not taking part directly themselves, new players will be more likely to come across other players PvPing to observe, potentially giving them a little more confidence to try it themselves. Currently, all PvP is restricted to being either within a duty of randoms or at the WDP, a map that is often pretty dead outside of community-led PvP events because the sole intention of going there is for some PvP-related purpose - you can't have a quick battle with friends on the fly because 'why not?', you have to actively travel there and, if solo, wait forever for another player to turn up. Some kind of open-world PvP system, even if just additional battle areas within cities, could make casual PvP more convenient and be a relaxed introduction to the mode for new players who may be less sure about trying it.

That said, it comes with issues. First, given the PvE skills aren't designed for PvP, I don't feel that using those would work out in a remotely balanced way. The hotbars would need to be switched to PvP ones when PvP is engaged, which may be a lot easier said than done. Next are issues around harassment etc.. We are rather fortunate that the FFXIV community is generally a very nice one in comparison to other MMOs, but there would still be a minority who would seek to use it to bully players unless steps are taken to prevent it (PvP only being available between party members or only upon accepted invite within designated, easy-to-reach zones within busy areas etc.).

If they got it right, I think it could be a very good update. But there's a lot that could go wrong and it could cause numerous issues if it wasn't thought through.

I am against the idea, not because I don't think people should have fun with it, but because, to be blunt, if I am ever just minding my own business, and I receive a party invitation followed by a /tell demanding a duel, that's gonna piss me off, that's something I don't want to deal with, because I dealt with it in games with duel systems, people can get real fucking annoying about it, often repeating the request multiple times after you reject it, and regrettably the blacklist can only hold so many names.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I am against the idea, not because I don't think people should have fun with it, but because, to be blunt, if I am ever just minding my own business, and I receive a party invitation followed by a /tell demanding a duel, that's gonna piss me off, that's something I don't want to deal with, because I dealt with it in games with duel systems, people can get real fucking annoying about it, often repeating the request multiple times after you reject it, and regrettably the blacklist can only hold so many names.

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That could be easily resolved by an "auto-decline duels" toggable, as some other games have utilized.

I don't really care for [formal] duels; don't really count them as OW PvP, but I do know what you're talking about there... and those games that did offer that were a relief lol. Too many people not taking a loss and spamming until they win, which is just bizarre to me when it's like 10 down, and usually it'll be someone that has just finished dominating all the "scrubs" around them.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The main issue is finding a lore reason for it. All the grand companies are friends. The Warrior of Light has united everyone and made everything peaceful. If there is ever a slither of war, the Warrior of Light mops it up quick and dusts their hands.

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The WoL regularly slaughters guys minding their own business because somebody in Limsa Lominsa, Ishgard, Kugane, Crystarium, or a dozen other places put their name on a board. They kill gods, even if they don't have to. What makes you think they'll stop at player characters?

This would be a great step towards bringing a more fun, bro-ish vibe to the community. Support, support, support. It would also be sick as heck seeing people duel. Some duelists could even become renowned server wide for their skills. Does FF14 even have any "famous" players that a large chunk of the playerbase would know? OSRS has a lot. Granted, most of those are content creators, but they're also known for their skills as well. Settled, Odablock, Boaty, SoloMission, etc. Can't really become a famous OSRS player without being good at the game.

Edit: Man, I'm imagining how sick it would be if FF14 had its own "1013" (infamous OSRS PvPer). Dude isn't a content creator, but his name is widely known just cuz of how legendary he is at PvP.

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Originally Posted by ThreeBeastSmile

That could be easily resolved by an "auto-decline duels" toggable, as some other games have utilized.

I don't really care for [formal] duels; don't really count them as OW PvP, but I do know what you're talking about there... and those games that did offer that were a relief lol.

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As nice as it would be to have an auto-decline for that, I don't think this game even has auto-decline for friend requests and guild invites like those other games have too.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

I am against the idea, not because I don't think people should have fun with it, but because, to be blunt, if I am ever just minding my own business, and I receive a party invitation followed by a /tell demanding a duel, that's gonna piss me off, that's something I don't want to deal with, because I dealt with it in games with duel systems, people can get real fucking annoying about it, often repeating the request multiple times after you reject it, and regrettably the blacklist can only hold so many names.

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I think if they want to implement a large scale pvp, they could dedicate a new zone that allows for PvPvE. Iirc ESO has a zone like that, so if a player enter that area willingly they should be prepared for duels. Meanwhile players who simply don't like PvP won't miss anything or getting harassed by random strangers by not entering said zone.

So yeah basically a wolf den but much, much bigger.

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Originally Posted by ThreeBeastSmile

That could be easily resolved by an "auto-decline duels" toggable, as some other games have utilized.

I don't really care for [formal] duels; don't really count them as OW PvP, but I do know what you're talking about there... and those games that did offer that were a relief lol. Too many people not taking a loss and spamming until they win, which is just bizarre to me when it's like 10 down, and usually it'll be someone that has just finished dominating all the "scrubs" around them.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

As nice as it would be to have an auto-decline for that, I don't think this game even has auto-decline for friend requests and guild invites like those other games have too.

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Auto-decline also does not stop players with chips on their shoulders then proceeding to hassle people with duel requests and then harass them when they say no (it happened to me on numerous games that had open world PvP with auto-decline - The Old Republic being the big one - I was constantly being hassled by players from my own faction wanting to pick fights with me for no reason other than lulz, and then threw abuse at me when I politely said "No thanks, I'm playing solo PvE right now." Players simply can't be trusted which Yoshi understands and hence, no open world PvP, because he knows players would just use it to grief and abuse new players trying to do stuff on the open world like FATEs and Hunts.

You want to duel here in FFXIV? Go to the Duelling Circle at the Wolves' Den. Don't expect to be able to grief new players on the open world, it's simply never going to happen. PvP is separate to the main game and will stay that way. And it is just as well.

Not my kind of thing if I am honest and it just seems like a waste of resources I do not feel there is a need for it but that is just my thought on it.

Like Enkidoh stated you can dual up in the wolves den.

If they where going to add anything it would be great for campaign or besieged like in FFXI but that is not PVP.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Auto-decline also does not stop players with chips on their shoulders then proceeding to hassle people with duel requests and then harass them when they say no (it happened to me on numerous games that had open world PvP with auto-decline - The Old Republic being the big one - I was constantly being hassled by players from my own faction wanting to pick fights with me for no reason other than lulz, and then threw abuse at me when I politely said "No thanks, I'm playing solo PvE right now." Players simply can't be trusted which Yoshi understands and hence, no open world PvP, because he knows players would just use it to grief and abuse new players trying to do stuff on the open world like FATEs and Hunts.

You want to duel here in FFXIV? Go to the Duelling Circle at the Wolves' Den. Don't expect to be able to grief new players on the open world, it's simply never going to happen. PvP is separate to the main game and will stay that way. And it is just as well.

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While I see the concerns, I do think this is drastically overblown. The PvP community is already small in comparison to many other MMOs, so I struggle to see you drowning in persistent Tells.

No different to FC requests: my alt will get random requests, I just cancel them. Rarely they'll get a Tell to say Hi and ask directly, I just ignore it or reply 'No thanks' and have never yet received any further pushiness. Now, if the PvP was totally open with no kind of invite/agreement needed then, yes, I could totally see the concerns. But that's not what is being suggested.

I notice you automatically jump to the assumption that the player making the suggestion is out to grief new players?

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Then the Wolves' Den Pier has all you need with the dueling arena.

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PvP allowed or not in other areas notwithstanding, one thing I'd like them to expand upon is allowing more than just duels in WDP.

Party vs party could be fun.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

I notice you automatically jump to the assumption that the player making the suggestion is out to grief new players?

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Most people will just stay in friend groups, but there's always people who want to prove they're the best that ever was. And there are definitely people who will spam you. I got spammed for kicking someone from NN cos they decided to get uncomfortably sexual. The way I stopped them was by threatening to report them for harassment, but that was a more serious occasion than "won't shut up about duelling", which many people won't bother reporting for.

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Originally Posted by jomas_45

Most people will just stay in friend groups, but there's always people who want to prove they're the best that ever was. And there are definitely people who will spam you. I got spammed for kicking someone from NN cos they decided to get uncomfortably sexual. The way I stopped them was by threatening to report them for harassment, but that was a more serious occasion than "won't shut up about duelling", which many people won't bother reporting for.

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Challenging randos is the most appealing part of this for me.

See? Point validated.

good way to put the coliseum and the arena in ishgard to use honestly.

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Originally Posted by jomas_45

See? Point validated.

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Your point being?

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

While I see the concerns, I do think this is drastically overblown.

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No, it's not.

Something that needs to be understood, XIV to me isn't just what the game is to me, it is also what the game is not, it is not a game where someone can try to heckle me into a duel, it's not a game where someone can attempt to heckle others into playing on PvP servers or "they are not playing the real game", which something I seen WoW players do. And it happening once, ever, in the history of the game, to anyone, is happening too many times, an overwhelming amount of times more than it should ever happen, which is 0, and the only way to ensure it can never happen is to put your foot down and prevent it from being possible altogether.

I just do not want to see the game ruined for me, and this sort of thing would 100% push it into that direction.

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Originally Posted by jomas_45

See? Point validated.

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Not quite seeing where your point is validated there?

One limitation of the existing PvP duties is the lack of time to stop and chat with your team. Obviously, in CC conversation isn't possible whatsoever. He's keen to meet new players who might also have an interest in PvP. They can refuse his request, he can move on, no hard feelings. Not quite sure what world we're living in if you're considering one single invite to be harassment? Might as well ban Triple Triad too.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

No, it's not.

Something that needs to be understood, XIV to me isn't just what the game is to me, it is also what the game is not, it is not a game where someone can try to heckle me into a duel, it's not a game where someone can attempt to heckle others into playing on PvP servers or "they are not playing the real game", which something I seen WoW players do. And it happening once, ever, in the history of the game, to anyone, is happening too many times, an overwhelming amount of times more than it should ever happen, which is 0, and the only way to ensure it can never happen is to put your foot down and prevent it from being possible altogether.

I just do not want to see the game ruined for me, and this sort of thing would 100% push it into that direction.

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Might as well add this to my above post, too, as it's in the same realm of fantasy to the other post I was responding to.

It would be a simple invite and maybe even one that you could toggle to automatically reject. Do you have the same complaints of Triple Triad? Of the FC invite system? Of friend invites? Of tell messages in general?

I would not mind on the condition it's invite only and there is a toggle to automatically decline. People will spam others with duel invites which is highly annoying, it's like FC invite spam..

If you don't think that it would quickly result in people being targeted and griefed, unless it was a clear opt-in only, then you haven't been paying attention in Frontlines (or any other PVP mode in this game).

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

If you don't think that it would quickly result in people being targeted and griefed, unless it was a clear opt-in only, then you haven't been paying attention in Frontlines (or any other PVP mode in this game).

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It would obviously, obviously, obviously, obviously, obviously be opt-in only and disabled by default. Just like when SE finally gave us Chat Bubbles.