Premades should get a potency reduction per player in frontlines

Meant to post this ages back but kept forgetting.

Premades make Frontlines unfair. In every premade party of up to 4, there should be a potency penalty across members, 8% for a duo, 14% for a trio, 18% for a quad perhaps seems right.

edit: the potency reduction only applies to the people within the premade, not the rest of the 8-person party.

lmao you cant be serious with this

It's times like this a downvote button is needed.

No.

I get why you say this, but the issue isn't pre-made, and it just unnecessarily punishes people that want to play with friends or as a group.

Don't be ridiculous. That's nowhere near enough. You should have a 3% chance to spontaneously explode per online friend too.

it is not a bad idea, it means you actually need to work for the win... also if having a battlehigh you would be more vulnerable as well and 1.5x as much as tanks.... then you need to move away from mob culture to skill based.

Another of those ideas that is willing to see the world burn just because the game is unable to balance and account for optimized groups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saucyshortcake

Don't be ridiculous. That's nowhere near enough. You should have a 3% chance to spontaneously explode per online friend too.

---

How much pocket sand you have in your pockets? Stop pretending that people you abuse mm with are "friends".

Solution is not ideal in this thread, because abusers cooperate to queue together with multiple groups to get into same team.

Half the time people complain about a premade, it's actually just them coping with the fact an opposing team can work together and follow instructions.

Even with a potency down they would still deal more damage contribution than 95% of the players there anyway since they actually know how to play them.
That and they are generally good with creating follow-up opportunities in the first place.

Not all premades are sweaty try-hards. Sometimes I just want to do content with friends. So no, I don't think this is a good idea.

As much as premades ruin every match they're in, this isn't the way to deal with them.

Thinking about it, they’ve kind of created a lose-lose situation with premades in large scale PvP.

If they ban/limit premades it unfairly affects the many people who enjoy doing that content with friends/fc members/etc. Which not only isn’t fair on those players but potentially hits the overall amount of people willing to engage with the content.

If they don’t ban/limit premades it (potentially, assuming they’re there) unfairly affecting newer / less experienced PvP players by facing them against highly coordinated teams with no real way to give themselves an advantage. Not to mention the propensity premades have for abusing death-ball crowd killing techniques I.E DRK drawing in enemies while party spams LBs or high potency attacks like Macrocosmos. Which, for newer/less experienced players, they’re practically powerless to fight against. Even if they guard there’s a 89% chance that one of the 435532 Scholars in the field will Chain Stratagem you anyway (and Biolysis you too).

But then, even if they tried to make a separate ‘premade only’ PvP, it would just never pop because of needing so many people.

Idk if there really is any way to address the issue (besides ignoring it) that doesn’t result in some group being unhappy. Not that I can see

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

Thinking about it, they’ve kind of created a lose-lose situation with premades in large scale PvP.

If they ban/limit premades it unfairly affects the many people who enjoy doing that content with friends/fc members/etc. Which not only isn’t fair on those players but potentially hits the overall amount of people willing to engage with the content.

If they don’t ban/limit premades it (potentially, assuming they’re there) unfairly affecting newer / less experienced PvP players by facing them against highly coordinated teams with no real way to give themselves an advantage. Not to mention the propensity premades have for abusing death-ball crowd killing techniques I.E DRK drawing in enemies while party spams LBs or high potency attacks like Macrocosmos. Which, for newer/less experienced players, they’re practically powerless to fight against. Even if they guard there’s a 89% chance that one of the 435532 Scholars in the field will Chain Stratagem you anyway (and Biolysis you too).

But then, even if they tried to make a separate ‘premade only’ PvP, it would just never pop because of needing so many people.

Idk if there really is any way to address the issue (besides ignoring it) that doesn’t result in some group being unhappy. Not that I can see

---

You will never find a solution, when you think the issue is pre-made grouping, and not the underlying balancing. Like, it's not the pre-made boogeyman, and a solo DRK is more than capable of trouncing and being just as effective than a pre-made, if they are willing to take on the role of 'leading or commanding' the group.

The fundamental issue is that they just simply don't balance around Frontline.

I don't think that should happen, but I do think the people who use plug-ins should be punished, alongside the groups that blatantly attempt to win-trade.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tsuchii

Not all premades are sweaty try-hards. Sometimes I just want to do content with friends. So no, I don't think this is a good idea.

---

Sometimes i also like to lie and throw pocket sand around. I don't think people who play dota as duo/trio for example in NORMAL matchmaking complain about being matched against same party composition too.

ff14 needs same matchmaking minimum. NO premade abusing, fair matches only thanks.

I sometimes play with people that are sometimes only there for the daily roulette, and then they go and do something else and then I'm queueing on my own. I would assume there are other people that queue in groups as one-offs for a few matches to do the dailies with their FC and friends, you're only making the weak people weaker. Even if it were to be implemented people can circumvent it to retain any damage penalties, the next issue would be people 'queue syncing' in hopes of getting on the same team and the "premade" problem you are crying about would STILL be there. People already try to queue at the same time during CC, so it would be no different.

While a premade can hold a very heavy influence on the outcome, so can the individual players on the enemy teams.
It's a bit annoying when people instantly give up and start grieving about it in the alliance chat because they suspect people on one of the other teams have a premade.

tldr; Try looking at job balancing in FL, rather than the match making process. You can hate the premade players all you want, but at the end of the day they didn't design the mode or the job kits.

fl is a shitty mod and there will never be fix, in fact its getting worst in the new map, just kidding I really really love the map, the dev is so smart, best map ever, everyone is fighting full of actions. wow best map every , best dev every, wow best admin I love you guys so powerful. your life is meaningful

Don't think this is needed. People play with friends for fun, I do FL with my best friend every day, not everyone does FL with a premade of four jobs that will just roll over everyone.

SE needs to actually properly balance certain jobs in FL, punishing people who wanna play with friends is not the way to go. They locked CC when it came out behind playing solo only and it was completely awful.

I understand where you are coming from, but the issue is not premades inherently, it's just bad balance.

This doesn't even take into account random groups. You can get an alliance and see all the regular names you see when playing and just stomp the other teams. Frontlines just isn't balanced from the three teams to rng objectives and so on.


The only take that I think is reasonable is adjusting match length. If it is a good match it goes ten full minutes. If life doesn't like you on a certain que and everything has went wrong you should be out in five minutes. Yes I can pad my kill counts on bad games. But that isn't really that fun.

Perhaps they should also start considering introducing a matchmaking system like we have in CC. Better if possible, but one nonetheless.

you guys are so whole some so friends> fl, tbh I had more fun watching my friend playing gacha game may be fl is not for me,

i love the takes in the pvp forum here its great

I'm sorry, but no.

Heres the fun thing about pre-mades. You can PRE MAKE one before going into frontlines. Frontlines is not ranked, its the sandbox mode for pvp, the mode where people queing in 'just for the pvp' or to have fun. If you do not like pre-mades, I suggest joining a pvp server like pvpprimal, princess, or revival and trying to find a group, or simply seeing who is in your matches alot and asking them to group.


But no, punishing people who are good at the one mode that doesn't make them always hard tilt, is not the move.

Alternatively, they should add a pvp tutorial. How to set up hotbars, burst etc. How to avoid certain abilities. And have a fl dedicated map. Awareness...

so because people actually plays like a team they should get penalized for it? what?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zofian

Meant to post this ages back but kept forgetting.

Premades make Frontlines unfair. In every premade party of up to 4, there should be a potency penalty across members, 8% for a duo, 14% for a trio, 18% for a quad perhaps seems right.

edit: the potency reduction only applies to the people within the premade, not the rest of the 8-person party.

---

This does absolutely nothing against the tryhards, or did you forget about the battle high progression adjustment? Even if you made them weak, you will still lose to the 4 mans while they're down 20% of their stats.
What you will do is punish the casual premades, you know, those that only play for half an hour or those that decides to do the roulette as a group before leaving for the day?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

This does absolutely nothing against the tryhards, or did you forget about the battle high progression adjustment? Even if you made them weak, you will still lose to the 4 mans while they're down 20% of their stats.
What you will do is punish the casual premades, you know, those that only play for half an hour or those that decides to do the roulette as a group before leaving for the day?

---

Someone's going to suffer one way or another. Do nothing and the tryhard premades make things unenjoyable for everyone else. Penalize/remove premades entirely and the more casual group queuers suffer.

The only feasible middle ground I can even think of would be for SE to conditionally penalize tryhard premades. Maybe some kind of MMR ranking system for frontlines, but only kicks in a penalty if two or more high ranking players are in a premade, scaling up the more/higher they are. If you're a regular casual player pvping with friends that don't all have highly skewed win rates or whatnot, it wouldn't impact you.

Perhaps they should just force roles like they do in the PvE raids: 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 dps per group. Having 24 tanks or 24 dps is kind of silly, and it keeps tryhards from exploiting the meta.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xylira

Someone's going to suffer one way or another. Do nothing and the tryhard premades make things unenjoyable for everyone else. Penalize/remove premades entirely and the more casual group queuers suffer.

The only feasible middle ground I can even think of would be for SE to conditionally penalize tryhard premades. Maybe some kind of MMR ranking system for frontlines, but only kicks in a penalty if two or more high ranking players are in a premade, scaling up the more/higher they are. If you're a regular casual player pvping with friends that don't all have highly skewed win rates or whatnot, it wouldn't impact you.

---

I guess the devs better start making regional queues a thing, so that they can test matchmaking. There's removing premades altogether. Unpopular opinion, but I will pay the game regardless of hating that option. However, I do not believe in punishing a group of people for working together. That's backwards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaiinahat

Perhaps they should just force roles like they do in the PvE raids: 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 dps per group. Having 24 tanks or 24 dps is kind of silly, and it keeps tryhards from exploiting the meta.

---

Roles don't exist, but that's up for debate. Anyways, frontlines will be dead at that point. Your least popular 'roles' will be able to get in and out of games easily, while everyone else will be forced to wait 20 minutes to half an hour just to play. On top of this, the devs will have to lock the ability to change classes just to ensure that the party composition stays enforced. If enough people gets sick of the wait time the system crashes, and no one gets to enjoy frontlines. It'll be no different than feast training.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xylira

Someone's going to suffer one way or another. Do nothing and the tryhard premades make things unenjoyable for everyone else. Penalize/remove premades entirely and the more casual group queuers suffer.

The only feasible middle ground I can even think of would be for SE to conditionally penalize tryhard premades. Maybe some kind of MMR ranking system for frontlines, but only kicks in a penalty if two or more high ranking players are in a premade, scaling up the more/higher they are. If you're a regular casual player pvping with friends that don't all have highly skewed win rates or whatnot, it wouldn't impact you.

---

Matchmaking ratings like we already have in casual CC should definitely be a thing.
And SE should perhaps try and balance their stupid role actions for once, some are literally being abused to the bone by optimized groups.

I'd like this before silly blanket premade group nerfs that lead to nothing good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaiinahat

Perhaps they should just force roles like they do in the PvE raids: 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 dps per group. Having 24 tanks or 24 dps is kind of silly, and it keeps tryhards from exploiting the meta.

---

That's what the matchmaking already does in casual in a soft way. It tries to balance out the amount of melees and supports in both sides. But that wouldn't work in a mode where you can change roles anyway.

I just personally would make the daily FL roulette only available as a solo queue. No parties allowed and then let the teams be randomly formed for that one time match. And you can only sign up for daily FL once. After that, you can only sign up under casual or ranked match. I know people wanna play with friends and have that awesome advantage for an easy daily roulette win, but I think a solo sign up would at least give everyone a more level playing field. Working together with random people. I think people can at least handle one round of FL a day as a random with randoms. As for casual and ranking matches.... party up all you want. This way no one gets penalties or nerfed. And as for those that join the daily FL and just stand in random spots for a min at a time doing nothing for the free bonus exp.... they should nerf the idle time down to 15 or so seconds and then send a warning to player that in like 10-15 seconds they will be kicked from match and cannot sign up till next day reset time. I see too often players standing in pairs using dance emotes and not doing anything. And if offense is repeated, the banned from FL will keep increasing from one day to one week, then a month, and so on. I think that doing stuff like this will not only level out the playing field a bit, but will also force players to at least try and participate in activity they signed up for. We all want exp to level classes and such. But at least put in the effort too.

So… you want FL to only be playable once a day? That is a crazy take.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

So… you want FL to only be playable once a day? That is a crazy take.

---

Would personally prefer to have only one FL game in roulettes per week (and only getting job XP once per week), no matter the result (win or loss) than having a lot of people who don't even bother reading the instructions of the modes (the bare minimum asked, or at least ask when off-duty), but spam FL for exp and don't even try to do more than a marathon presence in-duty.

Would even prefer to have less people queueing for Frontline and longer wait times than likely higher chances to get unbalanced games. In my opinion, winning and losing become optional when strongly unbalanced games just spoil all the fun (it is also the case, when your team is overwhelmingly dominating wuthout any tentative of resistance)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gaiinahat

Perhaps they should just force roles like they do in the PvE raids: 1 tank, 2 healers, 5 dps per group.

---

We went from no freelancer 8man premades to freelancer 8man premades, to freelander 4man premades. And still too much for some? When frontline are no longer 24man but only exist as 72man content.
Forced roles made sense when roles had meaning. Now tanks and healer are all damage dealer too and vice versa.

I like that they did frontline specific personal skills.
I would like if they add another that is an aoe support skill.
Also would have opted for a commander-system who gets voted at the start of the match (if too many abstain/decline, no commander for any alliance), having a powerful additional duty action that can be used once per match, like a LB3 that also buffs players around you. Besides exclusive access to marker tools, to lead and indicate where he is easier, maybe a bigger character model too temporarily (we have growth mechanics in PvE too). Defeating a commander would net the enemy team 100 points once.

Premades shouldn't be punished. If anything get your own premades too. I don't think they matter too much. Players who are unwilling to play PvP have more influence on the match than the amount of good players in a premade. That is why I never liked the excessive EXP for frontline PvP, because it attracts people who will afk for it.
It should be allowed to afk kick after 1 min in frontline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

We went from no freelancer 8man premades to freelancer 8man premades, to freelander 4man premades. And still too much for some? When frontline are no longer 24man but only exist as 72man content.
Forced roles made sense when roles had meaning. Now tanks and healer are all damage dealer too and vice versa.

I like that they did frontline specific personal skills.
I would like if they add another that is an aoe support skill.
Also would have opted for a commander-system who gets voted at the start of the match (if too many abstain/decline, no commander for any alliance), having a powerful additional duty action that can be used once per match, like a LB3 that also buffs players around you. Besides exclusive access to marker tools, to lead and indicate where he is easier, maybe a bigger character model too temporarily (we have growth mechanics in PvE too). Defeating a commander would net the enemy team 100 points once.

Premades shouldn't be punished. If anything get your own premades too. I don't think they matter too much. Players who are unwilling to play PvP have more influence on the match than the amount of good players in a premade. That is why I never liked the excessive EXP for frontline PvP, because it attracts people who will afk for it.
It should be allowed to afk kick after 1 min in frontline.

---

i like your ideas