Did they let the battle TL team fo the MSQ this time?

Multiple instances of there being like three lines in JP, compared to one vastly different line in English. No, I don't care if the localization us simultaneously developed, it's clearly off the rails because FR/DE aren't even close to being this bad.

... It's infuriating because it makes talking about canon with others a lot harder. Usually it's just the battle localization that is this atrocious (hello Endsinger), but the main game? Really?

Could you provide examples please? I had no idea Endsinger's localization was bad..? :eek:

I'm too lazy to summarize it all, but have a gander at this thread:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...r-The-Japanese

Basically, the English text of this game veers very heavily towards 'localization' and not 'translation' in a way that messes up a lot of shit. I usually choose Endsinger as the example because it's so, so silly. The time she reinvokes the death of the universe, the JP has her call her attack (as in, the English word!) Fatalism. The English localization? "This is fate!" I get the localizers think they know better, but they super don't.

Similarly, one of her Elenchos casts has this as its dialogue: "Utterly futile." - The JP is something along the lines of "This, too, is a form despair can take." Which. That sounds clunky, and I'd fix it if I was a localizer, but this girl talks about despair nonstop, yet the English TL purged it from several places???

Rubicante, a character whose personality is valuing fair and square fights (both in FFIV and FFXIV), sounds needlessly cocky in the English version. Here's a side-by-side by yours truly:

EN: "The archfiend of fire has no equal."
JP (unvoiced): 私は四天王が一人、火のルビカンテ。 - "I am one of the four archfiends*; Rubicante, [the archfiend] of fire."
JP (voiced): 正々堂々、戦おうぞ！- "Let's fight fair and square."

*Archfiend itself is a localization choice, but that was made back when FFIV first came out, so I'm not gonna bother with it.

Basically, nearly all of the battle dialogue in this game is absolute ass.

Then there's Wuk Lamat in the main story. She talks about smiles a lot, which has narrative ties to the song "Smile", but 90% of the instances were removed, making it incoherent as shit.

Now. See, to me these are really minor details. The idea is still there, and it doesn't mess up our understanding in the moment.

This is a case of what I know of, but the only instance of actual ass translation that messed up fights is "Larboard," a dead term for the port side of a ship. The Japanese version just said left.

Honestly the only localization decision that fundamentally hurt a character to me is Estinien uses a term for the WoL (aibou) that is very casual but affectionate term. He's SUPPOSED to refer to us like "partner," "buddy," or "pal" but it's instead always the unfortunately less intimate "friend." And he calls the WoL that all the time, alone and in front of others.

I don't expect Estinien to call the WoL his Bestie all the time, but he is *supposed* to, and it's a shame the translator didn't try to get us accustomed to any type of affectionate nickname or anything to get that detail of his character accross.

Alright, took a look at the thread and your explanation, thank you.
I'm pretty sure she actually does say "Utterly futile", though? I feel like I remember that voice line. And about calling out her attack, Fatalism, I get it but it also sounds like yelling out power ranger moves in a fight that is, quite literally, deciding the fate of the universe... I think "This is fate!" gets the idea across (you can see she's casting Fatalism anyway) and it sounds more like she's talking to us instead of announcing her attacks like they need voice activation.

I'm also that little shit that enjoys the Larboard/Starboard nonsense. Yes, EN players would technically be at a disadvantage because they don't have the same amount of information at the start, but after you see it happen it's fairly easy to remember L(left) for Larboard and if it's not Larboard then it's right. But I also wouldn't be up in arms if they changed it, I just like it when the boss doesn't spoon feed me the solutions to their mechanics.
I agree with RedLolly, as long as we're not missing vital context, it really doesn't need to be word-for-word to me. You didn't miss anything with Rubicante's dialogue, you know he's an archfiend, the fire one, and I don't quite remember but I'm pretty sure you get told either before or very soon after that there's 4 of them.

If "bro" was an appropriate fantasy term to use instead of a modern one I'd expect Estinien to be calling us that lol I think pal would be cute, but maybe they decided against it because it goes a bit against his edgy persona? Even if he's not as brooding anymore, he strikes me as the kind of character that doesn't wanna look too soft.

We should really stop trying to adapt the text to make it flow naturally in the target language and go back to translation notes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ew-rckmUYAILnu2.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shistar

Alright, took a look at the thread and your explanation, thank you.
I'm pretty sure she actually does say "Utterly futile", though? I feel like I remember that voice line. And about calling out her attack, Fatalism, I get it but it also sounds like yelling out power ranger moves in a fight that is, quite literally, deciding the fate of the universe... I think "This is fate!" gets the idea across (you can see she's casting Fatalism anyway) and it sounds more like she's talking to us instead of announcing her attacks like they need voice activation.

I'm also that little shit that enjoys the Larboard/Starboard nonsense. Yes, EN players would technically be at a disadvantage because they don't have the same amount of information at the start, but after you see it happen it's fairly easy to remember L(left) for Larboard and if it's not Larboard then it's right. But I also wouldn't be up in arms if they changed it, I just like it when the boss doesn't spoon feed me the solutions to their mechanics.
I agree with RedLolly, as long as we're not missing vital context, it really doesn't need to be word-for-word to me. You didn't miss anything with Rubicante's dialogue, you know he's an archfiend, the fire one, and I don't quite remember but I'm pretty sure you get told either before or very soon after that there's 4 of them.

If "bro" was an appropriate fantasy term to use instead of a modern one I'd expect Estinien to be calling us that lol I think pal would be cute, but maybe they decided against it because it goes a bit against his edgy persona? Even if he's not as brooding anymore, he strikes me as the kind of character that doesn't wanna look too soft.

---

I'm saying she doesn't say "Utterly futile" in the Japanese script. And I dunno how to tell you that there's a big difference between arrogance (i.e. Rubicante's "has no equal" in English) vs. humility and sportsmanship ("Let's fight fair and square"). Like it's a major characterization error, and it's inconsistent with both the JP and the original FFIV.

I do agree starboard and larboard is fine though, mostly because the other non-JP languages have to contend with it. It's not like I want a fully literal translation, I just want the battle dialogue to be even remotely related to what's going on in the original script.

I swear to god, I just checked the German script and while I need this voice actress to get vocal coaching immediately, the Endsinger there actually does say "Fatalism!" like she's supposed to. Interestingly, the French doesn't seem to do that. So... my point still stays. Idk why the German TL team manages to get it right and the English one consistently seems to feel the need to add 'flourishes' that change the script for no reason.

Haven’t they been doing this since at least FFIV? Seems a bit late to change their minds now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 0blivion

I swear to god, I just checked the German script and while I need this voice actress to get vocal coaching immediately, the Endsinger there actually does say "Fatalism!" like she's supposed to. Interestingly, the French doesn't seem to do that. So... my point still stays. Idk why the German TL team manages to get it right and the English one consistently seems to feel the need to add 'flourishes' that change the script for no reason.

---

They've done this with other bosses too. For King Thordan's big spectacle raidwide in Japanese you can hear him saying "Ultimate End", whereas the English text says "I shall end your vain struggle!". Even if the localizers thought him saying the name of his attack out loud is silly or whatever, they easily could've changed it to "This is your Ultimate End!" or something like that.

Same goes for Halone's big spectacle attack where she yells "AEGIS OF HALONE!" in katakana before going full ekusukariba on us. The English meanwhile has her flatly say "mine is the aegis!" instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Underscore

They've done this with other bosses too. For King Thordan's big spectacle raidwide in Japanese you can hear him saying "Ultimate End", whereas the English text says "I shall end your vain struggle!". Even if the localizers thought him saying the name of his attack out loud is silly or whatever, they easily could've changed it to "This is your Ultimate End!" or something like that.

Same goes for Halone's big spectacle attack where she yells "AEGIS OF HALONE!" in katakana before going full ekusukariba on us. The English meanwhile has her flatly say "mine is the aegis!" instead.

---

Yeah, Idk what they were thinking, but I get the impression that English localizers, as a rule, think that if the script is close to the original, it is bad. Which, no, that's not how it works. It's... vexing, I suppose.

And to the person who brought it up: I have been complaining about this since I've been playing Final Fantasy, which is around two decades ago. TL choices in EN translations will never not grind my gears, but in the year of our lord 2025, I wish they'd learn.

I'm going to assume this is one of those things where in Japan it is NOT goofy and ridiculous to announce your attacks by name, but it IS goofy and ridiculous to do so in the Anglosphere, so they localized the attack name callouts to be equivalent meaning statements, so that the intent and meaning came across as much the same as is possible under the circumstances.

Unless, of course, it IS cheesy and ridiculous in Japan to call out your attack names, then they should have translated them directly, to maintain the cheese.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 0blivion

Yeah, Idk what they were thinking, but I get the impression that English localizers, as a rule, think that if the script is close to the original, it is bad. Which, no, that's not how it works. It's... vexing, I suppose.

And to the person who brought it up: I have been complaining about this since I've been playing Final Fantasy, which is around two decades ago. TL choices in EN translations will never not grind my gears, but in the year of our lord 2025, I wish they'd learn.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astronis

I'm going to assume this is one of those things where in Japan it is NOT goofy and ridiculous to announce your attacks by name, but it IS goofy and ridiculous to do so in the Anglosphere, so they localized the attack name callouts to be equivalent meaning statements, so that the intent and meaning came across as much the same as is possible under the circumstances.

Unless, of course, it IS cheesy and ridiculous in Japan to call out your attack names, then they should have translated them directly, to maintain the cheese.

---

It's just how the Japanese equivalent to "superheroes" act in most of their media. I'm talking everything from magical girls to super sentai content. It absolutely does not translate as something cool and bombastic to most Westerners that aren't already conditioned to read that kind of thing as such (which just means you probably have grown up on Japanese media!) and instead feels very childish and can yank you right out of the moment. That's why it's so rarely directly translated. In short, it's "cringe" to an average English-speaking, western audience.
It really is just a cultural thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedLolly

It's just how the Japanese equivalent to "superheroes" act in most of their media. I'm talking everything from magical girls to super sentai content. It absolutely does not translate as something cool and bombastic to most Westerners that aren't already conditioned to read that kind of thing as such (which just means you probably have grown up on Japanese media!) and instead feels very childish and can yank you right out of the moment. That's why it's so rarely directly translated. In short, it's "cringe" to an average English-speaking, western audience.
It really is just a cultural thing.

---

That's what I figured. I can absolutely understand some of the localization complaints, but avoiding a, "...What? Bahhahahahaha," moment in the middle of the Endsinger fight is worth translating that statement a little differently!

Basically to sum it up
Japanese players like it when the boss/enemy says their attacks name as they think that’s cool and awesome.
English users like it when the enemy/boss says a cool one liner which may or may not include the name of the attack.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JisKing98

Basically to sum it up
Japanese players like it when the boss/enemy says their attacks name as they think that’s cool and awesome.
English users like it when the enemy/boss says a cool one liner which may or may not include the name of the attack.

---

Wrong, we all watched DBZ and think shouting the attack name is cool and awesome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Wrong, we all watched DBZ and think shouting the attack name is cool and awesome.

---

Which version of DBZ did you watch? The guys were usually too busy screaming in the microphone to near passing out in the version I watched as a kid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Wrong, we all watched DBZ and think shouting the attack name is cool and awesome.

---

Not from an anglo country, but yeah, I grew up on dubs that always stayed true to the OG in that regard. So I'm just like... sure, the average US-American who has never consumed a single piece of Japanese fantasy media might find it cringe, but many many many other players play in English because it is the most convenient for raiding. And again, the German manages to do it correctly, too, so I think it's more than apt to say that English translation is taking too many liberties.

And it's not just the calling your attacks thing— they replace actual characterization in dialogue with quippy one-liners (Rubicante).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

Wrong, we all watched DBZ and think shouting the attack name is cool and awesome.

---

When they weren't busy shouting about sending people to ANOTHER DIMENSION, discussing Goku's father the famous scientist, going to the Home For Infinite Losers, or having Frieza ask a question in his native tongue. (That last one still sends me laughing at just how stupid it is.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Underscore

They've done this with other bosses too. For King Thordan's big spectacle raidwide in Japanese you can hear him saying "Ultimate End", whereas the English text says "I shall end your vain struggle!". Even if the localizers thought him saying the name of his attack out loud is silly or whatever, they easily could've changed it to "This is your Ultimate End!" or something like that.

Same goes for Halone's big spectacle attack where she yells "AEGIS OF HALONE!" in katakana before going full ekusukariba on us. The English meanwhile has her flatly say "mine is the aegis!" instead.

---

These kinds of changes have gotten me into arguments over the actual super move some bosses even has. One that never left my mind was Ravana. I mentioned him using Chandrahas and someone got really confused, and thought it was Bloody Fuller. Two different abilities in the fight.

But also yeah, not hearing some bosses scream out their attack is just suffering. How could you deny yourself such joy!?