Since Clair Obscur Expedition 33 Won the Game Awards add a turn based mode to FFXIV!

Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 winning Game of the Year was a huge moment for the turn-based RPG. It really shows there’s a massive appetite for that slower, more tactical style of gameplay. This is the very heart of early Final Fantasy games like IV, V, VI, and X.

FFXIV has already set a precedent for radically different game modes that live outside the main MSQ dungeons such as Variant Dungeons or the occult Crescent and other field expeditions.

So why not a Turn-Based 'Expedition' Mode? They could create a new game mode that completely shifts the combat paradigm to a turn-based system system.

A 4-person party using your currently leveled Jobs, with unique skills designed just for this mode.

Instead of a GCD actions are governed by a visible turn order/timeline, similar to FFX's CTB.

Your current Job abilities would need to be translated into turn-based commands with varying delay (how long it pushes your next turn back) and cast/charge time (how long until the action executes). Tanks could have abilities that "Guard" or "Cover" on an enemy's turn. DPS could focus on timing breaks or elemental weaknesses. Healers could actually heal or cast buffs.

Dodging enemy attacks or critical strikes could involve a timing/QTE element, similar to what Expedition 33 uses, to keep things exciting.

People are clamoring for FFXIV to introduce something new. I think new modes like Variant Dungeons shows a willingness from the devs to experiment with FFXIV's fundamental rules. Bringing in a turn-based experience, inspired by their own heritage and the current cultural moment in RPGs, could be an amazing new feature.

or they could just fix the jobs lol

I'm not opposed to it. I don't need the combat to be fast.

But I think there isn't a particularly good argument for it. A turn-based system makes sense for a single-player game because each character is unique and you can only focus on commanding one at a time. However, in a multiplayer game, each person can focus on commanding their individual character at the same time.

Now if you think about old FFs, the timer until their next turns was available was essentially their GCD and some of them at least had settings to adjust the speed of this.

What they can learn from these old FFs is how to actually create interesting character attributes, elemental effects and status effects, which they consistently fail at, at least in part due to their excessive concern for making the game ultra simple so that new and casual players can grasp it, even though I would say that some of the old FF games made it easy to grasp these concepts like Final Fantasy 7, where there is no way anyone could be confused despite having functional status effects, elements and effect customization.

To be honest, as cool as that sounds, I wouldd rather see them revisit turn-based Final Fantasy in a single player title. Learn from Clair Obscure and make the next mainline FF game a worthy title that could reclaim their misplaced crown. I'm of the mind that ever since they started shifting to action-oriented games they lost the charm that made them who they were.

Maybe as a mini-game or something at the Gold Saucer. Not the base game.

Minecraft is the most played game of all time so I am waiting for them to allow you to place blocks.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

What they can learn from these old FFs is how to actually create interesting character attributes, elemental effects and status effects, which they consistently fail at, at least in part due to their excessive concern for making the game ultra simple so that new and casual players can grasp it, even though I would say that some of the old FF games made it easy to grasp these concepts like Final Fantasy 7, where there is no way anyone could be confused despite having functional status effects, elements and effect customization.

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Yeah it's called Crystalline Conflict :o

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 winning Game of the Year was a huge moment for the turn-based RPG. It really shows there’s a massive appetite for that slower, more tactical style of gameplay. This is the very heart of early Final Fantasy games like IV, V, VI, and X.

FFXIV has already set a precedent for radically different game modes that live outside the main MSQ dungeons such as Variant Dungeons or the occult Crescent and other field expeditions.

So why not a Turn-Based 'Expedition' Mode? They could create a new game mode that completely shifts the combat paradigm to a turn-based system system.

A 4-person party using your currently leveled Jobs, with unique skills designed just for this mode.

Instead of a GCD actions are governed by a visible turn order/timeline, similar to FFX's CTB.

Your current Job abilities would need to be translated into turn-based commands with varying delay (how long it pushes your next turn back) and cast/charge time (how long until the action executes). Tanks could have abilities that "Guard" or "Cover" on an enemy's turn. DPS could focus on timing breaks or elemental weaknesses. Healers could actually heal or cast buffs.

Dodging enemy attacks or critical strikes could involve a timing/QTE element, similar to what Expedition 33 uses, to keep things exciting.

People are clamoring for FFXIV to introduce something new. I think new modes like Variant Dungeons shows a willingness from the devs to experiment with FFXIV's fundamental rules. Bringing in a turn-based experience, inspired by their own heritage and the current cultural moment in RPGs, could be an amazing new feature.

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Or..... FFXI Remastered with new content, jobs, expansions, and more!

Elden Ring won as many awards as E33 did and it also sold more copies than E33, BG3 and P5 combined. I don’t mind the turn based combat tho, if they make it as fast as the normal ffxiv combat which is about 40-50 cpm.

Expedition 33 is the best mainline Final Fantasy I've played in a long time, but noooooo, an MMO doesn't need any random-grouping 4-person turn-based mode. Turn-based is great for solo play, or in the case of games like Divinity Original Sin, party-based with people with whom you'd otherwise be playing a TTRPG.

I do hope SE takes what Sandfall did to heart, but FFXIV isn't the game to do it with. Unless it's story-wise, since E33's story is, in some real ways, FFX told from the point of view of Zanarkand.

This game has too much bubble content.

SE should make a new turn-based Final Fantasy.

Don't turn XIV turn based, just make new good turn based games.

At risk of being crucified...
I love love love Expedition 33, but I do not prefer turn-based combat in my Final Fantasy, and I especially think it doesn't have a place in FFXIV.

I don't think I want turn based slop again, just because one game got it right (Expedition 33) does not mean adding turn based combat magically makes the game better, might even make it worse.

unpopular opinion: turn based is king... you cant change my mind xD

but no dont change a games battle system after release

Jeeq has the right of it. Square could take cues from their old ATB system.
Also noting for those who may be unaware, the inn rooms do have a 'mog quest' grid based game that is determined in turns; it's actually quite fun! You can locate it by interacting with the Toy Box (which I think you can acquire for houses/apartments).
Edit: Kupo Kupo Adventure is the name.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

unpopular opinion: turn based is king... you cant change my mind xD

but no dont change a games battle system after release

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I don't want them to change the combat system of the base game. That would not go over well. I just want them to add a new game mode, side content basically, that would use a turn based combat system. It could even have it's own storyline!

I'm sure I'm underestimating the amount of work this would be, but people definitely couldn't say that they aren't trying new things if they added this.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Don't turn XIV turn based, just make new good turn based games.

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They can do this too! In fact, maybe adding it to FFXIV could be a way to develop the turn based system for a new Final Fantasy game?

FF clone of E33 will be FF18 or FF19. (Not a MMO but a single player RPG).

Mark my words.

kek, imagine trying to parry with this netcode.

For those saying "it's crystaline conflict", no this is garbage game where few classes always become top and best for the entire year. That isn't fun and it's no fun to fight against same classes and people every day.

Battle system needs to be fixed -> Community brags how 2.5 seconds gcd is good and healthy for the game.

Wonder sometimes what people even want these days. You can't fix 2 minute era thing without changing and removing the stupid and old 2.5 seconds gcd.

I think the more likely outcome of this is SE reconsidering making the next mainline FF have turnbased combat.

I would absolutely buy an FFXIV spin-off that's turnbased since I love the universe here (my first thought is maybe Ardbert and Co's adventures being a fully fleshed out game) but I wouldn't be very happy with it being in FFXIV unless it was DEEP. I mean, eschew the relic zones like OC or Bozja and the next limited job and pour that dev effort into the sub mode and go all in on remaking fights to be turn based.

But I have ZERO clue how it could work in multiplayer unless it just lets players all do their own thing like we see in stuff like Pokemon's raids.

Instead of bolting on some turn based mode to FFXIV, maybe they should go ahead and make an entire turn based final fantasy game

Turn based combat wouldnt really fit in ffxiv.. unless u meant triple triad. Maybe a turn based ff game? Turn based isnt for everything/ everyone tho

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

I think the more likely outcome of this is SE reconsidering making the next mainline FF have turnbased combat

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And then the players will call it the worst game ever made and Squeenix will pivot back to action or some other combat gameplay type. Because that's the thing, a game can have turn-based combat gameplay and still be a bad game. E33 is widely loved and praised because it's a good game, not because it has turn-based combat gameplay.

I'd be okay with it as side content, like a specific new game mode or a gold saucer game and it's restricted just to that. I really don't think it should be involved with the MSQ or any of the "main" content though.

Side note, a fully turn-based MMO sounds interesting if done properly, I'd try it.

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Originally Posted by Selsix

I'd be okay with it as side content, like a specific new game mode or a gold saucer game and it's restricted just to that. I really don't think it should be involved with the MSQ or any of the "main" content though.

Side note, a fully turn-based MMO sounds interesting if done properly, I'd try it.

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Doesn't it!? I think it could be a lot of fun and so many talk about wanting more strategy in encounters, but turn based could really add a whole new dimension to that.

I agree that in FFXIV it shouldn't be in the MSQ or main content. It would have to be a side mode.

SE will never be able to create a game even half as good as E33.

People think E33 is just a turn-based game. It's not. It borrows heavily from Diablo and Sekiro as well. Actually pay attention to what they were doing. The turn-based was just the most obvious element.

The way you build classes resembles roguelikes and Diablo/PoE far more than JRPGs. Half of the combat is also basically Sekiro. Dungeon design is closer to reboot GoW than any JRPG.

Also it's hilarious how the FF fanboys mald over the far superior game, E33. This very forum's mods deleted all my threads on E33 back when it came out. Rofl

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

And then the players will call it the worst game ever made and Squeenix will pivot back to action or some other combat gameplay type. Because that's the thing, a game can have turn-based combat gameplay and still be a bad game. E33 is widely loved and praised because it's a good game, not because it has turn-based combat gameplay.

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No.

SE moved on from turn-based because technology allowed for more active styles of combat. Gameplay like we saw in Kingdom Hearts, FFXV, and even FFXIV, were a logical next step from THE ATB systems on the PS1 FF titles.

FFXVI being so action oriented was a common criticism since the RPG part of the gane is barely there anymore, and now E33 proves that a narrative game with deep turn-based combat can still do enormously well. E33's praises include it's unique combat system.

Besides, SE still makes such games with Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default, but neither series are designed to the scale of Final Fantasy, and after XVI and E33, players are asking for a new FF with turn-based focussed combat.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

No.

SE moved on from turn-based because technology allowed for more active styles of combat. Gameplay like we saw in Kingdom Hearts, FFXV, and even FFXIV, were a logical next step from THE ATB systems on the PS1 FF titles.

FFXVI being so action oriented was a common criticism since the RPG part of the gane is barely there anymore, and now E33 proves that a narrative game with deep turn-based combat can still do enormously well. E33's praises include it's unique combat system.

Besides, SE still makes such games with Octopath Traveler and Bravely Default, but neither series are designed to the scale of Final Fantasy, and after XVI and E33, players are asking for a new FF with turn-based focussed combat.

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You're missing the point; being turn-based doesn't magically ensure that a game will be good, there are a ton of really terrible games with turn-based combat. Squeenix has a history of deliberately misinterpreting things in the most half-assed way possible, and making the next mainline FF game turn-based solely because E33 did well, is a recipe for failure. If they make a mediocre or bad game expecting to coast off of turn-based combat, it will flop.

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Originally Posted by SkankyRoe

You're missing the point; being turn-based doesn't magically ensure that a game will be good, there are a ton of really terrible games with turn-based combat. Squeenix has a history of deliberately misinterpreting things in the most half-assed way possible, and making the next mainline FF game turn-based solely because E33 did well, is a recipe for failure. If they make a mediocre or bad game expecting to coast off of turn-based combat, it will flop.

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...yes? I don't really see this as a point to be arguing at all or to even point out. This is just common sense that being turn-based =/= good game.

If we want to dig into that though, E33 proves the opposite. Being turn-based isn't going to kill your game. Which was apparently a pretty common sentiment?

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

...yes? I don't really see this as a point to be arguing at all or to even point out. This is just common sense that being turn-based =/= good game.

If we want to dig into that though, E33 proves the opposite. Being turn-based isn't going to kill your game. Which was apparently a pretty common sentiment?

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My point was that the entire premise presented in this thread is a bad take; making FFXIV, or the next mainline FF title, turn-based solely because E33 won a bunch of awards, fails to understand why E33 won those awards in the first place, and is just a recipe for disappointment and disaster.

The thing is, they've already shown they are capable of consistently making widely loved action rpgs(Kingdom Hearts, Mana, Star Ocean) as well as widely loved turn-based rpgs(SaGa, Mana, DRAGON QUEST). For sure, players have indeed been pleading for a return to something closer to the FF series's turn-based roots for the mainline FF titles, but it's important to remember that XII and XIII were just as divisive despite being having a more traditional ATB turn-based system, so there's definitely more to the formula that needs to be paid attention to.

And yes on your last point, E33 does reinforce the common sentiment that turn-based isn't some archiac thing to be avoided, but then so do the tons of other super successful widely loved turn-based series like SMT/Persona or the ones you and I have both mentioned that are done by Squeenix.

We really should stop demanding that any new, succesfull thing becomes a blueprint and everything should be like that.

We should learn from it but blindly copying is a recipe for a disaster. Not everythig will work for everything.

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Originally Posted by Regis_Paran

We really should stop demanding that any new, succesfull thing becomes a blueprint and everything should be like that.

We should learn from it but blindly copying is a recipe for a disaster. Not everythig will work for everything.

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True, but few mmos have included turn based combat. So for FFXIV to do some even in a special mode and not part of the main game, would be innovative.

For FFXIV, HELL NO, but this should at least reopen SEs eyes to turn base for future installments of FF rather than continue with the whole needs to be action based to appeal to new players...

I hated E33s battle system. I only like parry and dodge mechanics in more Souls/Zelda type rpgs where you're blocking and dodging whilst simultaneously looking for an opening to attack. Having this in a turn based game feels too much like Guitar Hero or FF Theatrhythm where you're just timing your inputs whilst standing still lol. It's boring and takes away from the more strategic nature of ACTUAL turn based games where strategy is crucial for success, not hitting a well timed button.

I enjoyed E33 but if you take away the visual artwork, the French music, and incredible acting/voice acting, it's just a run-of-the-mill, mid jrpg. I don't get the glaze for it at all and hope this type of battle system doesn't become the norm.

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Originally Posted by RyoXander

I hated E33s battle system. I only like parry and dodge mechanics in more Souls/Zelda type rpgs where you're blocking and dodging whilst simultaneously looking for an opening to attack. Having this in a turn based game feels too much like Guitar Hero or FF Theatrhythm where you're just timing your inputs whilst standing still lol. It's boring and takes away from the more strategic nature of ACTUAL turn based games where strategy is crucial for success, not hitting a well timed button.

I enjoyed E33 but if you take away the visual artwork, the French music, and incredible acting/voice acting, it's just a run-of-the-mill, mid jrpg. I don't get the glaze for it at all and hope this type of battle system doesn't become the norm.

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Not to mention the strategy of E33 boiled down to "Hit as many times as you can" before the damage cap is removed, and "Use the 75 million damage move" when it is. I thought it was especially insulting where the final boss punishes you severely if you dare to go with a shield build but I guess they prefer you just 1 shot him and skip any strategy all together. Like God forbid they try and make other builds viable and balance their game.

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Originally Posted by Regis_Paran

We really should stop demanding that any new, succesfull thing becomes a blueprint and everything should be like that.

We should learn from it but blindly copying is a recipe for a disaster. Not everythig will work for everything.

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It really wouldn't be "copying" since Final Fantasy did it first and not many have done it successfully in an mmo.

It would take some finesse to make it work as a sub mode in a game like FFXIV, which I think is the kind of innovation or novel things to do that people are asking for from the FFXIV devs.

squenix should take notes from the success of wii sports and implement motion controls into the game

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