Blacklisted Players in Matched Parties Feedback

The current iteration of Blacklist definitely needs an improvement. I don't really find myself blacklisting many people but it's a huge inconvenience when a player you've blacklisted gets matched up in your party not once.... not twice.... but three times in a row.

I learned that Blacklisting a player does not actually stop them from being matched up with you in a party.

For context, the situation is a run of Pilgrim's Traverse in the Floor 70+ range going pretty bad when a PLD decides to pull nearly every enemy in giant mobs despite the rest of us asking them not to to be more careful. They insist doing it their way which nearly caused multiple wipes but we made it through that set of floors.

I decide to Blacklist assuming it would prevent us from getting matched... and we get matched on the next set of floors, where this time they DO cause a wipe, forcing us back down to the previous set of floors. Upon queing again... we are yet again matched together, except I decide to leave the duty because I really don't want to deal with continuous wipes getting paired with the same person.
To make things worse, because I've blacklisted them (the other individual I was with also blacklisted them), I'm not sure if we'd be able to see anything in party chat to communicate in content... that will require a moderate amount of communication, which sucks if we're forced to be grouped together (Correct me if I'm wrong on this)

This is clearly a difference in playstyles, and if they want to play that way and they're happy that's fine, but if it inconveniences someone who would like to not get paired up with them then it's really horrible if there is no way to prevent being matched up with someone with a playstyle that is likely to cause wipes, completely wasting an individual's time especially on content that can punish you for wiping.

I understand theres the options of going with a fixed party (but you need to find people for that on your same floor set), maybe data center traveling to avoid getting a que with that same person, or holding off on playing at all for a while in hopes you don't get matched up with that person again. These are options but it doesn't make it any less inconvenient when the function that exists in the game that is suppose to block interaction with another player.... doesn't even fully block them and leaves room for toxic interactions indirectly.

So my hopeful request is if the Devs could please improve on the current iteration of the Blacklist to prevent blacklisted players from being matched together in any content.

I've been matched with blacklisted players before as well, because the probability exists if you queue at the same time each day like they probably are. It was only a week after as well.

I think that the matching system matching with blacklisted players is fine for roulettes because it's overall not very likely due to the amount of people that queue for them. But for deep dungeons it's highly likely as you're progressing up the floors at the same time, and there isn't really a proper matching system that would suffer from considering blacklists like there is with roulettes because there are no role restrictions.

Sounds like the problem is there's not enough people in the queue. Would you rather sit in the queue for 30+ minutes waiting for another player to hopefully join instead of being matched with this PLD?

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Originally Posted by Exmo

Sounds like the problem is there's not enough people in the queue. Would you rather sit in the queue for 30+ minutes waiting for another player to hopefully join instead of being matched with this PLD?

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Yes, i would rather wait 2h then getting matched yet again with someone which causes wipe over wipe

Ofc the blacklist needs improvement and another overhaul.

Will that happen tho? Unlikely.
SE is just too incompetent to make a functioning blacklist.
Remember last time they did something with it which was a huge security risk and enabled a stalking plugin cause in their infinite wisdom their garbage blacklist sent unencrypted player data to clients.

The role of the duty finder is to simply get people into a group as fast as possible based on your duty selection(s) and language settings. Any other criteria only dilutes the potential pool of players further, increasing queue times across the board. This isn't aided by the fact every region (excluding OCE) having multiple duty finder queues, one for each data centre. Maybe in the future when they finally make the duty finder cross-DC, we can have a few more filters that'll include your own blacklist.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

Sounds like the problem is there's not enough people in the queue. Would you rather sit in the queue for 30+ minutes waiting for another player to hopefully join instead of being matched with this PLD?

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Yes because sitting 30+ minutes in a que would be slightly better than progressing 20 floors only to end up getting wiped by a specific player's horrible choices that affect the entire party's run. Not a good situation regardless and isn't fair to the player(s) trying to progress but keep getting their time wasted. There are alternative solutions like I said but they all end up putting the player in an unfair spot when this is a system that should really be fixed.

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The current iteration of Blacklist definitely needs an improvement. I don't really find myself blacklisting many people but it's a huge inconvenience when a player you've blacklisted gets matched up in your party not once.... not twice.... but three times in a row.

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That's because game is not in it's best shape at all. Not many people are subbed, even less people are doing dead-on-arrival content with no meaningful rewards.

In this situation there's not really much that can be done about it.

IIUC, the official Square Enix line is that it's not fair to the other players in queue to make them wait longer because of what, in their eyes, is a personal issue between you and the person you have blacklisted.

On the flip side, WoW's matcher DOES honor ignore lists, and I have oft wondered how much longer the queue is made especially for modes like Battlegrounds and LFR (where there are 20-40 people that all need to be matched, and respecting blocks means NO TWO of those people can have an ignore-list relationship with one another ...) as a result. A similar situation would arise with Alliance Raids in particular in FF and seeing that the less popular ARs already take long enough to pop as it is I have to agree with Yoshi that the SE decision is the lesser evil.

If the person is deliberately wiping the group then that is grounds for a report ticket for griefing, or if it seems like they might fit the definition of Lethargic Gameplay then that can be reported also, but that is up to the GMs to determine. (One may argue that the more automated WoW reporting system has points here but directly allowing players to effectively vote to have another subscriber's account actioned is nonetheless fraught and opens doors to worse abuses, especially given how Draconian SE is about nearly never removing account marks - you can literally skip out on thousands of dollars of balance on a credit card and have it come off your record sooner than an FFXIV account mark will ...)

I understand why the blacklist does not work the way we wish it did...if it did, it would make matchmaking far more complex and also subject to abuse. At least blacklisting people makes it really obvious to you that you've been matched with someone you don't want to play with, so you can make a decision from there if you'd like to abandon and take the 30 minute penalty (which would probably put you out of sync with the person you blacklisted as well, making it less likely they show up in your party again).

Because man I get it, I was in a matched party last night with someone who triggered four luring traps on the 80+ set and it was really grinding my gears that this person couldn't seem to figure out how not to walk directly in the middle of rooms at that high a floor.

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

Yes because sitting 30+ minutes in a que would be slightly better than progressing 20 floors only to end up getting wiped by a specific player's horrible choices that affect the entire party's run. Not a good situation regardless and isn't fair to the player(s) trying to progress but keep getting their time wasted. There are alternative solutions like I said but they all end up putting the player in an unfair spot when this is a system that should really be fixed.

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That's a fair perspective, thank you for answering. Would you also be ok with waiting 30+ minutes in a queue because another player blacklisted you for whatever reason?

What I find infuriating is that blacklist hides offender from YOU, but does not hides YOU from the offender, which, in my opinion, is a lot more important.

Ngl, PT filled my blacklist like nothing and its out not even a week.

To OP: DD is a premade thing, always was. Matching and high checkpoints is a band aid fix to turn this game into even more of a fast food cash cow and it degraded the player quality even more. I stopped matching it when a PvE script andy legend died to the same cone 10 times. At least it was a testament to how truly fucking braindead the mainstream PvE in this game must be when someone like that can clear it.

It's news to me that Blacklisting doesn't remove a player from queues with you. I always assumed that was the entire point?

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

It's news to me that Blacklisting doesn't remove a player from queues with you. I always assumed that was the entire point?

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Game does not have enough players for this feature, especially on less populated data centers. You blacklist 100 players that do alliance roulette, you end up never having alliance roulette again.

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Originally Posted by Alicie

Game does not have enough players for this feature, especially on less populated data centers. You blacklist 100 players that do alliance roulette, you end up never having alliance roulette again.

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I mean, I understand that. If you really ended up with THAT many players you hated, then that's just what you'd need to do for your sanity if you insisted on continuing to play.

But that's my opinion on it. I don't think I have anyone on mine.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Ngl, PT filled my blacklist like nothing and its out not even a week.

To OP: DD is a premade thing, always was. Matching and high checkpoints is a band aid fix to turn this game into even more of a fast food cash cow and it degraded the player quality even more. I stopped matching it when a PvE script andy legend died to the same cone 10 times. At least it was a testament to how truly fucking braindead the mainstream PvE in this game must be when someone like that can clear it.

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Wow you must have had bad luck if PT filled your blacklist, may people like that never find me.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

That's a fair perspective, thank you for answering. Would you also be ok with waiting 30+ minutes in a queue because another player blacklisted you for whatever reason?

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If it means I'm guaranteed not having to run into someone I blacklisted because I don't want to play with them then I'll gladly accept that too.
I'm sure there can be some balance in the code for the matchmaking.
Maybe it can be like this: Two players blacklisting each other queuing for the same thing? Whoever queued first can have the priority to go with the group being currently matched together while the person queuing second will have to wait for the next group, however long that may take.
It is very unlikely both would que at the exact same time down to the milliseconds, but IF that was the case for two people on different parts of the globe, put it to a dice roll, alphabetical order or any other way to determine who gets first priority in this very rare circumstance.

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

If it means I'm guaranteed not having to run into someone I blacklisted because I don't want to play with them then I'll gladly accept that too.

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I think you missed what I was implying in my previous post, which is that blacklisting could then be used as a harassment tactic to block another player from accessing an instanced duty. It would be relatively easy to do so with a network of bots. I think that's why SE have taken their approach instead

I highly suspect this is a you problem, too, because the mobs on 70-80 are pushovers if the entire party cooperates and there's a PLD. Assuming the party knows the mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

I think you missed what I was implying in my previous post, which is that blacklisting could then be used as a harassment tactic to block another player from accessing an instanced duty. It would be relatively easy to do so with a network of bots. I think that's why SE have taken their approach instead

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Implying? Why not just say that from the beginning then? In my years of experience I haven't really run into bots in any DF/matched parties, so if its bots that are the issue, that just means you won't get paired with those multiple bots and get made to maybe wait a little longer and get paired with other live players. I'm not saying it's a perfect solution and I'm aware it can potentially be abused if you have some clique of players or something but that doesn't justify the root problem.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

I highly suspect this is a you problem, too, because the mobs on 70-80 are pushovers if the entire party cooperates and there's a PLD. Assuming the party knows the mechanics.

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If you would think a little further, you'd realize that this was a party that didn't know the mechanics and didn't have 100% cooperation. Of course the enemies are easy on paper, but when multiple things are pulled around a corner when others are trying to catch up after people scatter, traps go off, and enemies have poor positioning meaning AOE's from one enemy go off in the safe spot of another aoe and due to timing of it all, things don't die fast enough leading the tank to eventually die because they couldn't handle what they all pulled on top of any traps some players set off because they just run through the middle of the room.
That's not a me problem at that point. Your first mistake was assuming just because people get to that set of floors through a matched party that they'll be on the same skill and knowledge level and will know how to cooperate.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

To OP: DD is a premade thing, always was.

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It wasn't, though. When PotD first came out, we only had 1 to 50. It was highly popular and we all worked cooperatively to succeed at it. We had to trial and error to figure out what mobs did and there were plenty of floor wipes. Plenty of us ran it matched. Then they released the second half, 51 to 100 and the fixed party only floors. HoH and EO hamstrung Deep Dungeon by limiting non-fixed to just 1 to 30. Pilgrim's is bringing back that old school cooperative play feeling that the original had and allowing the entire dungeon to be experienced instead of having matched and fixed sets of floors.

To the OP, it was my understanding blacklisting was never going to remove someone from your queue, just make so you didn't see what they said in chat channels.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

Sounds like the problem is there's not enough people in the queue. Would you rather sit in the queue for 30+ minutes waiting for another player to hopefully join instead of being matched with this PLD?

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Yes. I would. /shrug

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

Implying? Why not just say that from the beginning then? In my years of experience I haven't really run into bots in any DF/matched parties, so if its bots that are the issue, that just means you won't get paired with those multiple bots and get made to maybe wait a little longer and get paired with other live players. I'm not saying it's a perfect solution and I'm aware it can potentially be abused if you have some clique of players or something but that doesn't justify the root problem.

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You seem pretty resistant to thinking about the problems with your suggestion. It would be extremely easy to block a person from playing several of FFXIV's game modes and to grief any number of new players in general. Whether you believe it or not, botting does exist in this game. You don't need your bot army to join the duty, just queuing up would be enough to block a blacklisted player's enrollment. If you think about it for two minutes from the perspective of how someone could abuse the system, you will understand how your suggestion would make the game far worse.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

You seem pretty resistant to thinking about the problems with your suggestion. It would be extremely easy to block a person from playing several of FFXIV's game modes and to grief any number of new players in general. Whether you believe it or not, botting does exist in this game. You don't need your bot army to join the duty, just queuing up would be enough to block a blacklisted player's enrollment. If you think about it for two minutes from the perspective of how someone could abuse the system, you will understand how your suggestion would make the game far worse.

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In case you didn't read, I already said it wasn't a perfect solution. I know botting exists in the game but in my personal experience I haven't run into any in duties, only in the overworld. To this extent I can say you seem very resistant to acknowledging how the current iteration of Blacklist makes the game awful for those in the given situation I explained. It's a shitty situation either way.
I'm also not saying that I don't understand why the current blacklist system is the way it is. I get that, programming it the way it is makes sense but that doesn't make it a good solution. My suggestion was just that, a suggestion, not the solution they need to have.

And to round back to your initial questions of if I'd be comfortable waiting longer, me being willing to deal with that as opposed to being grouped with people I don't want to play with is my preference, I never said that has to be the final solution to this problem. It would be super nice if Blacklisted players didn't have to play together but if there was another, better solution then sure that's even better. Don't make assumptions that people aren't thinking about the cause and effect of their own suggestions.

I'd happily wait longer if it meant I did not get teamed with someone on my blacklist.
If I add someone to that list I do not wish to interact with them, I do not wish to see them, I do not wish to be partied with them.

The bare minimum however would be that I do not see messages of a blacklisted target, I should not be able to see their markers, I should not get an audio ping of a chat channel (like alliance raid chat) when a message is received from a blacklisted character, and I should not see that they're chatting.

I still get audio queues (because my alliance raid chat channel is set up to create an audio alert, and I do care about other people not on my blacklist so turning it off isn't an option.) and I believe I should have the option to opt out. Or better, opt in.

Give me a notification, you're matched with a blacklisted character
<Hide all messages/markers/etc this duty>
<Mute this character for this duty(hides the message but notifies (as it is currently))>
<Show messages from this character this duty>

Alternatively, If I'm in queue and for example the duty pops, then stops instantly, with the notification, we've unmatched you and returned you to queue due to being matched with a blacklisted character. Then I would be ok with that, my queue position would be maintained, meaning I get priority with other characters, and I don't have to deal with someone I do not want to deal with.

Currently I eat the 30min penalty, for the game matching me; with someone I do not wish to be matched with.

I do not consider the whole "but what if a group of people deny you access to content by all blacklisting you" a viable concern.
It should just not add you to their queue, your queue timer increases which increases your priority for the next group or individual queuing.

It should check when adding a player to the queue group with everyone's blacklist, it can get a bit complex but it's only as complex as 24 people, after all, you do not care if you're matched against a blacklisted character (pvp/frontlines), you can't communicate with them at that point.
And if they do manage to identify you and harass you someway, that'd be a bannable offense since they'd have to do behaviour in the unsportsmanlike behaviour category.

tldr: I'd happily wait an hour or more vs being matched with someone on my blacklist.
I'd like blacklist to absolutely hide all messages, not just the message, but also that they're messaging
I'd like it if I can't see their marks or waymarks either.
I do not wish to group, communicate, or play with someone on my blacklist.
That's why they're on the BLACKLIST.

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Originally Posted by Nyastra

Wow you must have had bad luck if PT filled your blacklist, may people like that never find me.

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He's not the only one. I have 138 players on my blacklist. Most of them came from party finder such as chaotic alliance raid. In there you could see incredible behavior, like really fascinating. Some people were also jerks while collecting blue mage spells (a.k.a kicking you because you try to tell them tactics and they deem that as "toxicity"). Some people get angry if you point them to not use doton on single target as level 100, you know. Strange stuff that you just see in this game. But party finder is the biggest loophole you'll ever see. What this means is that I can't see half of pt because if those blacklisted chars make a group, I won't see them nor they will see mine. This already reduces the play-ability for you as this game suffers from low pop.

As for the DynamoAce mentioning bots, I have seen bots in my duties. They mostly come in Sastasha and those early dungeons. Easily recognizable. Other than that, I agree with you. Only problem with your method would be for pvp matchmaking. It's already mega dead and since later ranks are usually 10-20 same people every single day, good luck going up if they all decide to go against you on vendetta (which they already do in a different way).