"New content" should not be forced farm of 10 year old content at this point...

While I understand there has to be incentives to do old content in order to keep them populated enough for newer players to queue through, we are definitely at a point now where everyone has run ARR, Heavensward, & Stormblood content thousands of times if not more. Shadowbringers & Endwalker content too, kind of, but even those expansions had "Go farm the old stuff a lot" stuff framed as something to look forward to as part of a new patch.

I know Yoshida has admitted they need to shake up the formula recently in an interview, I just hope CB3 can come up with SOMETHING else to do.

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Originally Posted by Doki

While I understand there has to be incentives to do old content in order to keep them populated enough for newer players to queue through, we are definitely at a point now where everyone has run ARR, Heavensward, & Stormblood content thousands of times if not more. Shadowbringers & Endwalker content too, kind of, but even those expansions had "Go farm the old stuff a lot" stuff framed as something to look forward to as part of a new patch.

I know Yoshida has admitted they need to shake up the formula recently in an interview, I just hope CB3 can come up with SOMETHING else to do.

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I disagree.

It should absolutely use old content, but provide appropriate rewards to the user based on their level. I want to see more of this happening, so the previous area doesn't become a barren wasteland where only new players/ alts are. All zones should have at all times a mix of players, from new to the game to vets.

Relics always fund old content in the game, the exception of Eureka which was pretty solid way to build community since everyone was always in there, and they decided against that again with no OC requirement.

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Originally Posted by technole

Relics always fund old content in the game, the exception of Eureka which was pretty solid way to build community since everyone was always in there, and they decided against that again with no OC requirement.

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Eureka fosters community, or at least loose cooperation, because of how spawning NMs works and their cooldown times.

Occult Crescent has none of that, so funneling everyone into it wouldn't work well without significant changes or updates to the zone.

im not completely against using old content, but they do it WAY too often.

also old contents fun factor is ridiculously low. which is a reason why they shouldnt use old content at all

I'm perfectly fine doing old content. I just want that content to feel fun to play and it doesn't.

Not much of a hot take these days as the veil starts to come off, but the reason why they have to force us to do this old content is because the whole thing was designed poorly. When keeping costs low is at the forefront of your design philosophy then content that has replayability gets cut because its more complicated to develop, instanced one off fights become contents core, and dungeons will continue to have a very formulaic hallway design (that last one is in Yoshi P's own words when questioned about changing dungeons).

But hey SE will spare no expense remember? Shoulda done it while the getting was good.

the relic points is lesser this lower level dungeon/raid/trial

DT light step has been the genuine only reason I've touched roulettes beyond a daily expert for tome capping. I'll likely be going back to not touching roulettes when I'm done, because the incentive to run roulettes is nonexistant. The gil is paltry, the non-cap tomes don't give me anything I care about, and the EXP for alt jobs is lesser than speedrunning my highest level dungeon with static members (with exceedingly few breakpoint exceptions to meaningfully matter).

The problem isn't with "running old content", the problem is providing veteran players little to no meaningful incentive to do so. Even the most boring, paint-by-numbers content can be ran at least apathetically if you reward players enough.

I agree, they should make more systems they leave by the wayside to rot and become obsolete after a couple of patches, lol.

If I remember correctly there were some steps of the ShB relic that weren't tied to Bozja at all or had a Bozja option, it was a bunch of Stormblood FATEs with no other way to do it, which was also a one time thing. Their internal data probably showed a lack of people running these 4 roulettes specifically so they made it a relic step. Personally I'm tired of doing the same CEs ad nauseam and the only reason I go into OC now is to do FT, which after my next ten clears I wont touch the content again until 7.4. I haven't touched roulettes in months so it gives me a reason to actually run them so I'm content with this light step.

This would be much less of a problem if class gameplay was actually interesting and engaging in lower levels tbh. Not that the jobs are really engaging at max level either, but its much worse when you don't have your full kit.

They are getting us to do old content because when they make us do new content, people complain.

That's right, I said people complain about us having to do new content for the relic. There were people that didn't want to do Eureka. There were people that didn't want to do Bozja (the new content) so they farmed Crystal Tower and O3 instead. There were people that didn't want to do Occult Crescent so they farmed FATEs outside it instead.

So there is this consistent anti-new content camp for some reason that want the farm to be really quick and really braindead and involve raids like Crystal Tower. I don't get it, but of course SE is listening to those voices as well.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They are getting us to do old content because when they make us do new content, people complain.

That's right, I said people complain about us having to do new content for the relic. There were people that didn't want to do Eureka. There were people that didn't want to do Bozja (the new content) so they farmed Crystal Tower and O3 instead. There were people that didn't want to do Occult Crescent so they farmed FATEs outside it instead.

So there is this consistent anti-new content camp for some reason that want the farm to be really quick and really braindead and involve raids like Crystal Tower. I don't get it, but of course SE is listening to those voices as well.

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I hate to admit, but I can see why Yoshida gives people options when it comes to relic farming. There are those that will always go the optimized route (unsynced whatever for 30-45s clears), those that will engage the new content (eureka/bozja), and those that will go the inefficient but braindead route (I just wanna Netflix n' CT bro).

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They are getting us to do old content because when they make us do new content, people complain.

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The solution to this is fairly simple, and it's not unknown to SE: If we need to acquire X, there should be at least two distinct means of doing so.

That doesn't necessarily mean that any given player will find an option they like, but at least they can choose the option they dislike the least.

For example, spitballing, instead of Gerolt flatly telling us, "the aether in south horn is too unstable," it could have been, "the aether here is unstable, but if you can go get X, Y, Z, maybe I can build you a stabilizer."

The fact the steps major part is just roulettes is ew. I have been playing so long now I did my share of daily roulettes enough to make me wanna be sick doing them regularly now. Very sad to see I can't do fates or literally anything else. I kept my jobs a lower level expecting to be able to level them with the relic content and what a let down that turned out to be.

They recycle everything. Including the npc's, music and stuff. Its partially understandable, but a lot of it is just straight up lazy to streamline. What did Yoshi P say again? 7.1-7.3 took one month to write up?

They said they were "rushing because of "Shadowbringers success" And after the rushed mess that was Endwalker and Dawntrail, I keep asking myself and the universe. "Why?" Why would you rush instead of taking your time to release quality and innovation and good well paced storytelling. I guess the simple answer might be quick bucks vs longterm gains and goodwill. And funding and rushing other projects, including ff16. Gods is this company tiring to even attempt to support with their dumbass decisionmaking. I honestly think they wouldve fired people if they could afford to. But apparently Japan has "no devs" interested in them.

They wouldn't need to use relics as old content fuel if they would update roulette rewards
Other than exp, they are practically worthless since hunts are infinitely faster for tome cap

Some of this content should be at launch of expansion and not so deep in. If people were farming xp or fate ranks doing relics wouldn't be so bad. Same with crafting the rewards are garbage if you are leveled, if it was available at launch and you were getting xp and doing a bunch of the grind it would probably feel more productive. Or at least a little less waist of time. Relics and crafter stuff doesn't need to be BiS, but having it at launch would fill out the launch way more.

I'm more upset with the how tone deaf this is...

We complain we lack content with shelf life, that there is nothing to do but the freaking same roulettes we do ad nauseam...

And we get roulettes in the new step. At this point they're trolling us.

The issue isn't that it is old content the issue is a level 100 player is missing their full kit while being in a level 50 dungeon there would be zero complaints if we at least had our level 80 move set by level 50 new players would enjoy this too. xD

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

The issue isn't that it is old content the issue is a level 100 player is missing their full kit while being in a level 50 dungeon there would be zero complaints if we at least had our level 80 move set by level 50 new players would enjoy this too. xD

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I agree with this, but I think its still one step away from the basic issue in the design of it all. It's just not fun man. There is no reason we should be doing lesser content with ANY bit of a lesser kit. This game has been around for over 10 years now and their idea for a relic grind is to do roulettes of content that is over ten years old with the kit to match. I mean if I was to bet on the reasoning, I think that the failure of OC, and the huge drop off of mostly older players has factored in to funneling players into older content. For the longest time SE's business model has focused on getting new players. There are still those climbing to end game, and if queues are super long and new players are forced to use NPC's and not get the visual of playing with PC's then the whole veil that this game is a MMO and not a single player experience goes away. I think they should just double down on it honestly and make leveling type zones out of the open world for all old content, with dungeon xp still being just as good. That whole problem would simply solve itself for new and old players leveling. It just makes so much more sense to get that completely off of their plate and never have to look at it again.......at least until the "massive" job changes lol. Hopefully that isn't another hole they dig themselves into XD.

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Originally Posted by Kahnha

there would be zero complaints if we at least had our level 80 move set by level 50 new players would enjoy this too

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Absolutely... until those new players realize that they get basically nothing new for the next 50 levels.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

Absolutely... until those new players realize that they get basically nothing new for the next 50 levels.

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that's details we can iron that out after we get it xD

they get new armor sets and maybe the moves change as they get stronger ;P

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They are getting us to do old content because when they make us do new content, people complain.

That's right, I said people complain about us having to do new content for the relic. There were people that didn't want to do Eureka. There were people that didn't want to do Bozja (the new content) so they farmed Crystal Tower and O3 instead. There were people that didn't want to do Occult Crescent so they farmed FATEs outside it instead.

So there is this consistent anti-new content camp for some reason that want the farm to be really quick and really braindead and involve raids like Crystal Tower. I don't get it, but of course SE is listening to those voices as well.

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The problem with CT for this light farm is that you get less light. I did AR roulette and got DT1 and got about 300 more light for it. The same can be said for high level duty roulette. The level 50 duty gave less light than the level 60 duty. Some one said time is a factor and I can see it playing a part in it. I also think level plays a part. Getting people to open up and do other duties is likely a factor.

I don’t mind running stuff. Gil and tomes are always nice, but the lopsided light return really bugs me. Just got done the previous step of the relic grind, but I did 21 weapons and crafting and gathering gear “savage” grind. Tomestones were in hot demand for both.

TBH running old content for specific objectives would be more enjoyable if we could use the job's full kits, scaled down.

I'm okay with running old content but god, Crystal Tower got boring a LONG time ago.

I have yet to see 1 single other raid pop (as is usually the case with Crystal Tower Roulette (Alliance Roulette).

Recycling old content is fine, I'd just prefer it if there was a challenge/it wasn't content we've already done literally 1000's of times.

Would be so much happier if content was taking us back to Shadowbringers over anything ARR.

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Originally Posted by avraymk

I'm okay with running old content but god, Crystal Tower got boring a LONG time ago.

I have yet to see 1 single other raid pop (as is usually the case with Crystal Tower Roulette (Alliance Roulette).

Recycling old content is fine, I'd just prefer it if there was a challenge/it wasn't content we've already done literally 1000's of times.

Would be so much happier if content was taking us back to Shadowbringers over anything ARR.

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If their coding allows,to mix different party size duties in the same roulette, I'd love to see ARR raids moved to the MSQ roulette... since those are requirements to the MSQ.

Or... (I'll probably be flamed for this?), since they really like to do that kind of thing to old duties, give the Castrum and Praetorium treatment and remake them into Light Party instance. Again, for the Crystal Tower raids being an odd case of necessity to progress through the story. That would at least make the bosses more interesting than they currently are today. I really think the bosses of the MSQ roulette got really better and even useful as a learning experience.

Generally I dislike what they did remaking the ARR duties, making them lose a lot of flavor, but Castrum and Praetorium were the only cases it actually became better.