Am I the only one ho thinks 8.0 should be delayed by like 6months?

The most common counter argument I get is that the game has nothing to do while people wait, which is true, but it's not unfixable.

Generally speaking after FanFest there's like a 6month period after an expansion is released. Maaaybe 8months (I think this was endwalker). But am I really the only one who thinks that it's way too short of a period to give the developers the time to polish the corners of a next expansion and actual give something meaningfull for the end-game as well.
I would personally be ok that after the initial announcement at Fanfest there's always a full calendar year before release.

Here's my issue with expansions; Generally speaking an expansion contain the MSQ, new FATE's (that are literally copy paste from previous) and EX's to do. Beyond that you might have some crafter stuff to do, but even that stuff is literally copypasted from previous expansion with literally the same materials with different icons. (for the most part) AND hunt trains.

So the devs are pushing an expansion out as soon as they can just to please the MSQ players and to pay their yearly bills on time I guess, the latter part I understand that as a company you kind of have to pay someone something at some point. And usually there's a deadline.

But from the players perspective, the players who play only the MSQ leave right after they're done with the MSQ, might even unsub. And those of us who love the game beyond it are left with close to nothing to do unless we artificially limit ourselves by not playing as much or don't go to the marketboard to skiphalf the crafter "content". Or we just generally slow things down by AFK'ing in Limsa.

I would much rather that expansions took the time they need to release a package that actually caters to the playerbase rather than investors. Or atleast that's how it feels to me when they need to release these things at certain schedule.

The issue of "nothing to do while we wait" and people unsubbing during this period is actually more fixable than you'd think, but the devs never actually do any of it, which is weird to me.

There is never any smaller scale events that happen in the game that makes the game feel alive as a liveservice game. You might think that theres moogle events and seasonal events, but generally both of those are a bit bigger. Especially the seasonal events usually have a story to them which I think takes ALOT of extra manpower to implement into the game, but beyond that there's almost never any real small scale things that would actually keep people logged-in for the hiatus period.

Here's just a few examples:

• increased tomestone rewards for 2 weeks from roulette and hunt-trains.
• increased MGP in golden saucer this week.
• Additional event based FATE's added that give more bicolor gemstones this week.
• Doing FATE's in ARR zones gives triple XP.
• Increased PVP series XP.
• Wonderous Tails has a ARR mount reward this week.
• Added a new FATE boss in Kozama'uka for a mount.

Some of these are quite simple and basic live service things that 14 doesn't utilize at all and I don't understand why? I'm not saying that "double xp" is particullarly exiting for most players, but there are players who would probably test out PvP more if it wasn't so grindy to get all the series rewards.

And if these things happen periodically it's not like it takes away from anyone in particular.

Some of the suggested things could be a little larger, like new world bosses, but don't need any elaborate NPC questline to have them be added in the world as just things to do.

But I feel like the game could do so much during the downtime to gives player retention and allows the devs to take longer on an expansions release and when it launches it actually holds a more meningful game beyond MSQ.

And if FOMO is the issue I feel like these examples are alot more reasonable that PvP series rewards.

Just as a last note, generally speaking when an expansion launched the development for the next expansion is probably already starting, especially in Japan where they barely get vacation off all that often. But after whatever vacation they do get they're back at work planning for the next one. So 8.0 has most likely been in development since July 2024 at the latest. some parts of it probably already planned before then.

Thats barely more than 1 year in development, some of which probably have been done BEFORE the feedback from fans about Dawntrail to some degree.

So if you just look at the the full timeline Fanfest JP is in October 31, 2026, 6-8 months from there is an estimated release for 8.0. Thats comes to April 2027 release at the earliest for 8.0, thats 2 full calendar years, barely 3.

So the worst case scenario is 3 full calendar years in development for the next expansion WHILE you are also adding content to the current expansion. So not only are you taking focus away from the next expansion, you are actively shortening the time you are able to develop it. We can only hope there's actually 2 teams working on both at the same time, but even then you have half the manpower working on the current stuff.

I would just personally have them get full hands on deck for a full year after Fanfest JP. So the release would be October 31st 2027. And whatever the game does during that period is these smaller catchup events.

Ho = who :3

(sorry about all the typos, my KB is broken)

Where fan fest occurs with respect to of release if 8.0 is irrelevant, artificial, and adjustable. However, I agree they need to take whatever time they need to get 8.0 amazing.
They need to hire more devs. That needs to be the constraint, and not what languages they speak.
'constraints' ought not to be a strange concept to a company that makes software.
Again I sympathise they want to keep it Japanese. I'd prefer they did too. But this is a simple case of "beggars can't be choosers"

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Originally Posted by Gurgeh

Where can great it's in respect of release if 8.0. I agree they need to take whatever time they need to get 8.0 amazing.
They need to hire more devs. That needs to be the constraint, and not what languages they speak.
'constraints' ought not to be a strange concept to a company that makes software.
Again i sympathise they want to keep it Japanese. If prefer they did too. But this is a simple case of "beggars can't be choosers"

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Even if there wasn't a constraint on the hiring process, it would still take a long time for that employee to actually start making meaningful headway in the games content.
I'd say atleast 3month period just to see if the employee can handle being in the company and let's say they're a graphic artist for new adventure plates, well they're most likely doing concept art or something like that for starters
and just learning the engine and how all that stuff functions and how to implement things into the game and thats you hiring one person to do one specific thing in the game. Obviously you don't hire someone to just do adventure plates,
but more than likely you give them smaller tasks to learn the ropes with. And eventually they learn the engine better and they move up the ladder as a full on UX/UI designer or something. It's alot of time to get a person up-to-speed.

So it's not like hiring more people will suddenly make the game shine bright like a diamond. At best it alleviates some of the busywork and at worst it can slow things down at the beginning.
So if they hired new people during Dawntrail, those people only start to show their worth from now going into 8.0 and beyond.

I feel like people wait way too long as it is. Like, it'd be one thing if we had stuff to do during the downtime, but there's usually nothing, or there's like a seasonal event that even the slowest reader finishes in half an hour. Best case scenario they do a moogle event full of old rewards, like bruh

And tbh 8.0 has seen longer wait times between patches than ever. What are we at now, 4 months? 4 and a half? Whether or not the content is worth the wait, I'll leave to others to discuss but yeah.

So no, for what we're actually getting, and considering all the extra time they've already given themselves, and the probable delay were already looking at, I don't think an even longer delay is warranted or will even necessarily lead to a better product. That said, if they wanna cancel sub fees during the delay downtime, or provide something worth doing that's enjoyable during that time frame, then yeah, sure, take as much time as you need.

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Originally Posted by Avoidy

I feel like people wait way too long as it is. Like, it'd be one thing if we had stuff to do during the downtime, but there's usually nothing, or there's like a seasonal event that even the slowest reader finishes in half an hour. Best case scenario they do a moogle event full of old rewards, like bruh

And tbh 8.0 has seen longer wait times between patches than ever. What are we at now, 4 months? 4 and a half? Whether or not the content is worth the wait, I'll leave to others to discuss but yeah.

So no, for what we're actually getting, and considering all the extra time they've already given themselves, and the probable delay were already looking at, I don't think an even longer delay is warranted or will even necessarily lead to a better product. That said, if they wanna cancel sub fees during the delay downtime, or provide something worth doing that's enjoyable during that time frame, then yeah, sure, take as much time as you need.

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So I'm gonna take this as a way of you saying it takes too long for them to make a half-baked MSQ expansion with almost nothing to do beyond it and alot of it being copypaste?
Since they way you worded it it sounded like regardless of how good an expansion is or how big, they take too long, which to me sounds really unreasonable considering game development and just how much they focus attention to detail.

Thats why I also mentioned that the summer festival stuff do have a place, but considering they take a player 15minutes to complete, it feels like a waste of development effort to add in the whole NPC storyline they usually have included.
If it takes the devs like let's say 3months to implement the seasonal festival into the game, and you have to start almost right away the development of the next seasonal festival for october, well don't you think you're putting too much effort on content people play through in 15minutes? And I vager alot of it is because of the NPC dialogue stuff to make sense in the world etc.

Again, those things do have a place, but if it takes a way from the consistency of a live service game it's not a good way to go about it when people contantly go on for 3month breaks to wait for whatever comes next.
The game needs those weekly or monthly live servicy things to kind of keep people active regularly.

And those things shouldn't need a fell 3month development or playtesting to make sure it functions perfectly. Just add small appetizers to the games hiatus period that doesn't take too much away from other things.
Heck alot of it could be automated to hapen on weekly basis.

https://cdn.betterttv.net/emote/603c...594e18/1x.webp

Lets be real, the biggest constraint on the hiring process is that SE just doesnt pay that well. This is especially bad because they ask people to work on an ancient MMO. If you are an aspiring gamedev in japan, SE is your last resort.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Lets be real, the biggest constraint on the hiring process is that SE just doesnt pay that well. This is especially bad because they ask people to work on an ancient MMO. If you are an aspiring gamedev in japan, SE is your last resort.

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That's proobably in comparison to pay in the US / EU, but I did check thrugh Classdoor and the average sallaries seemed pretty on par with what CDProjektRed or Ninja Theory pay.

Game programmer at CD Projekt Red: 68-119K/year
SE Programmer (which I think is somewhat similar position): 69K-135K/Year
Ninja Theory on the lower end for Programmer: at 34-74K/year.

If anything just from a quick glanze it pays more to be on SE payroll than CD Projekt Red. But that would really require a more thorough research.

Edit: I even looked at some MiHoYo (genshin impact) sallaries and they seemed lower than at SE. But it's hard to say what the truth is unless you know.

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Originally Posted by Kirutsuki

That's proobably in comparison to pay in the US / EU, but I did check thrugh Classdoor and the average sallaries seemed pretty on par with what CDProjektRed or Ninja Theory pay.

Game programmer at CD Projekt Red: 68-119K/year
SE Programmer (which I think is somewhat similar position): 69K-135K/Year
Ninja Theory on the lower end for Programmer: at 34-74K/year.

If anything just from a quick glanze it pays more to be on SE payroll than CD Projekt Red. But that would really require a more thorough research.

Edit: I even looked at some MiHoYo (genshin impact) sallaries and they seemed lower than at SE. But it's hard to say what the truth is unless you know.

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It's in comparison with Gamedev companies in Japan. SE does not rank amongst the top 20 highest paying.

https://automaton-media.com/en/news/...o-ranks-third/

Even more delay? Usually Savage raid is in between the patches to space things out, you really want to stay for over a year on one tier?
Raiding is already dead after a few weeks, so far the only thing that keeps people playing is the hostage/housing situation

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But am I really the only one who thinks that it's way too short of a period to give the developers the time to polish the corners of a next expansion and actual give something meaningfull for the end-game as well.

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The game is in development *way* longer than I think you are thinking. If anything, the timing of the FanFests is based on when they anticipate the game being ready, not the other way around.

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But from the players perspective, the players who play only the MSQ leave right after they're done with the MSQ, might even unsub.

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Need to look at SE's perspective here - they are fine with this. In fact, some of the changes they've been making (e.g. Duty Support) are specifically to attract the non-MMO portion of the FF fanbase. If SE gets a slew of people who prefer the single-player titles also buying FFXIV expansions, even if they only sub for a month or two at a time, it's a win. They fully acknowledge that not all FFXIV players will be permanent subs.

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I would much rather that expansions took the time they need to release a package that actually caters to the playerbase rather than investors.

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As a relatively casual player, I would definitely say what they release already caters to people like me. A new expansion with just the MSQ and Sidequests is usually ~60 hours of content, and that takes me quite a while to play through. Then add in the typical MMO grinds that are also available from the start (e.g. Shared FATE ranks, Hunt Trains, etc.) and I've got it made.

Also, the simple reality is that no matter how much content is frontloaded into the X.0 release, there will always be people that no-life it, finish everything, and then complain there's nothing to do. Heck, even with all the launch issues EW had with login servers, there were people who blew through the ~60 hours of content in under a week and were then whining that there wasn't more new stuff yet. SE did what any logical people would do and realized those people will *never* be satisfied, so they just get properly ignored instead. Straight up - people will always be able to play through content significantly faster than it takes to develop said content. Releasing more of it in the X.0 section just means it would take significantly longer to release an expansion, people would still finish it really quickly, and then the "waiting period" until the next expansion would be even longer. The way it's gradually released now over patches is intended for the primary audience of more casual players.

I would gladly delay 8.0 by almost a year if it meant that the job updates would be much more meaningful and impactful, rather than the crap they pulled in DT.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I would gladly delay 8.0 by almost a year if it meant that the job updates would be much more meaningful and impactful, rather than the crap they pulled in DT.

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I would almost agree to that, but I've already been alienated from most of the classes I enjoy due to whatever direction of design we've been stuck in for the past 3 expansions.

I think so too there is so much content to do and a delay will allow me to finish it

You're one of the few, for sure. The next expansion is already delayed, even if it releases in December 2026. The average expansion cycle used to be 2 years, but at this rate, we might end up with 4-year expansions in the next decade. I personally don't mind expansions lasting up to 3 years, as long as CBU3 adds content accordingly. But it's clear that these delays are being used to cut costs and produce less content overall.

This becomes evident if you think about it for more than a second. In a span of 30 months, they managed to release 4 Savage tiers and 3 Ultimates, from the start of Stormblood to early Shadowbringers. Now, we wouldn't even get a new expansion from the start of Dawntrail, which means falling behind on many dungeons and trials. Long-term, we'll be behind on Savage tiers, Ultimates, Deep Dungeons, and Field Operations, and it keeps adding up. Everyone loses out on content, from casual to hardcore players. The extra added content isn't worth it.

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Originally Posted by LilaIronman

Even more delay? Usually Savage raid is in between the patches to space things out, you really want to stay for over a year on one tier?
Raiding is already dead after a few weeks, so far the only thing that keeps people playing is the hostage/housing situation

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You do realize that would only happen ONCE.

Because delaying an expansion so that the game launches WITH tiers 1-3 would mean, that the update cycle would not change after the launch of 8.0. So for the following update cycle we would follow the same pattern, but add tiers 4-6 and since
by this point they would have had to schedule things much further down the line until 9.0 they have two options of going about it;

1. Space out each patch even more (undesireable, considering people already are angsty about the gaps between updates)
2. Keep the current update cycle, but add things beyond .58, so you could get more raid tiers for .6, .65 and so forth so there would be less of a gap between 8.0 content and 9.0, but allow the devs to have longer period developing 9.0.

People already complain about the long wait between patches and you want them to wait LONGER?

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Originally Posted by JadeCurtiss

People already complain about the long wait between patches and you want them to wait LONGER?

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No one's talking about changing patch cycle jeesh. Again it would only effect this cycle, not what happens afterwards.
Obviously if SE decides that now that they have longer time between the expansions they decide to increase the gap between patches, that'd be bad.

But delaying a single expansion shouldn't effect what happens after in a negative way, the best solution would be that they can do patches beyond .58 since they have more time.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

It's in comparison with Gamedev companies in Japan. SE does not rank amongst the top 20 highest paying.

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Your link is actually showing "average yearly income of employees", not just developers. Square Enix also runs arcades, publishes manga and handles other merchandising, music and mobile services in addition to digital gaming. Many of those maintain employees who are not paid at developer rates.

Aside from video games, Sony Group also has a lot of high-margin sectors such as toys and electronics, as well as a vast media presence, as does Bandai Namco.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

In a span of 30 months, they managed to release 4 Savage tiers and 3 Ultimates, from the start of Stormblood to early Shadowbringers. Now, we wouldn't even get a new expansion from the start of Dawntrail, which means falling behind on many dungeons and trials. Long-term, we'll be behind on Savage tiers, Ultimates, Deep Dungeons, and Field Operations, and it keeps adding up. Everyone loses out on content, from casual to hardcore players. The extra added content isn't worth it.

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I firmly believe that content ammount is NOT the issue, incentevising people to do that content is.
There's people who only raid and complain no content despite there being plenty to do.
There's casual players complaining not enough content despite there being plenty to do.

And it all boils down to giving these players reasons to do the content. One of the aspects SE is already going to test is adjustable difficulty for bosses, but
one of the major reasons is also rewarding the player in a meaningful way towards their respective enjoyments of the game.

So if a raider enjoyes rading, but is limited because they are not rewarded enough, maybe giving the raider additional chests that week if they do more causal oriented content.
If let's say a crafter needs a bunch of tomestones, then giving the crafter tomestones from raiding would be a good way to push players to do that content.

Obviously there's no way to know whos crafter or who raider, but in general it boils down to currency ammounts and unlocking additional reward behind certain tasks.
And all of that is relatively easy to implement to the game which would push the players to do more varied content.

To me it is actually harming the game when the devs keep adding NEW and exiting content every patch, because almost none of it will satify players in the end because they last 2weeks at the most and you're left wondering what to do next.
It would be far better for SE to spend time improving the player expeirence withing the game and reward players for doing varied content in the game even after they've gotten everything from them.

Have you done Eureka with all jobs just to give a hard example? Most people have not. How would you push players to do it?
Give the raid oriented player an extra chest from current raid this week if they do 5levels in Eureka.

Even if a player has done 100% of the game, the game should reward for participation in meaningful ways, but instead the game actively limits players at the high-end and it feels like a waste of time to do anything but one highly specific thing in the game.
And when you have those limitations AND the game releases only one raid tier after 6months of waiting, ofcourse people are going to say "lack of content", but it's not actually what's happening.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

The game is in development *way* longer than I think you are thinking.

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Yes, but you can look at past expansion timelines and gauge the overall development time to be ~3years, while scripts and such for the story might have been done way before that.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Need to look at SE's perspective here...

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As I said I understand SE's point of view from needing to pay bills, that's it. But I wont be kissing their butt if I think that the expansion they release is not worth the money and subscription I pay for it.
At the moment it's barely worth both, it's ok since it's a full game's worth of story. But parts of even that experience are so lack luster that you feel ripped off...

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Originally Posted by Striker44

As a relatively casual player, I would definitely say what they release already caters to people like me.

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I am also a casual player, but I feel bad for raiders who have to wait for the following patch for their targeted content after launch. This doesn't mean they shouldn't still get a new raid tier the following patch, just that delaying an expansion would allow certain stuff to be at the base expansion.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Also, the simple reality is that no matter how much content is frontloaded into the X.0 release, there will always be people that no-life it, finish everything, and then complain there's nothing to do.

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This I agree with, but the issue isn't lack of content, it's rewaring the player from playing more varied content. And there's so many ways the game could do this, but it just refuses to.
Challenge logs for example, why isn't there more interesting daily challenges that give raiders additional rolls on a chest in a raid that week. Or challenges that doubles the tomestone cap for that week?
And none of this is "new content" it's just ways for players to do different kinds of content in the game while allowing them to target their needs in the game for gear or materials.

The issue is that the players who literally have nothing else to look forward to than what the next patch brings them have nothing else they feel the would even want to do, even if it's left in the backlog.
No-one feels like going back and do some ARR specific nonsense because it doesn't translate to anything on the high-end.

its the lack of engaging and having repeatable content to keep players coming back to do it. everything once you do it, its done. no point in going back to do it. no rewards for doing, no secret boss, no secret cutscenes, no alteration to the story or anything. it quite literally is a one shot and honestly given to you on a plate the exception being ultimates. Even crafting is a bit of joke now

Second, game play. its pretty bad. its extremely homogenized. class identity has been through the ringer for the most part. Im sorry but even in PvP the jobs have way more class identity then they do in PvE. On top this the challenge isn't there everything is telegraphed so much its a even extremes use to be somewhat hard but not anymore, the difficulty curve went downward after Stormblood and even further downward after Shadowbringers. I am as casual as they come. I use to hate playing tank during 2.0. but honestly it felt good during stormblood. I never had that much fun with playing a tank. Dark was something else as well. But they all play the same. but im ranting sorry.

I still hold a tiny bit of hope, they they will start address jobs in PvE and give them some much needed identity in 8.0. No job should be 1,2,3 and extremely similiar in play style with each other and I hope they address the terms of re-playability because honestly its feeling more single player with co-op play options and a cash shop on top of sub service. But like I said, i still have a little hope.

no actually it should be released 6 months earlier in the summer like it used to

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Your link is actually showing "average yearly income of employees", not just developers. Square Enix also runs arcades, publishes manga and handles other merchandising, music and mobile services in addition to digital gaming. Many of those maintain employees who are not paid at developer rates.

Aside from video games, Sony Group also has a lot of high-margin sectors such as toys and electronics, as well as a vast media presence, as does Bandai Namco.

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Spin it however you want, SE has a shortage of devs. That's why yoship is constantly talking about how difficult it is to hire. People show up if the pay is right, if it isnt then they will look elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by seolhyun

no actually it should be released 6 months earlier in the summer like it used to

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Considering the content hasn't changed what you get from expansion to expansion I would agree.
On the flip side I do see alof of improvements in general cutscenes visually and character animations, so they 100% spend more time on detail.
The game also has grown alot since Stormblood, it's grown alot from even Shadowbringers, so when you add content to the game it increases development time pretty linearly.
Even if they leave some of those gameplay systems behind, some of them they keep.

Just a small example, but by adding adventure plates, they now have to allocate some resource into someone making all the adventure plates.
Dnd that adds time in development, minor as it might seem.

Add to this the financial issues Japan has with it's currency and square's problems with hiring new people to develope the game, well it's no wonder that it takes longer and longer to complete an expansion.

I would love if reality was different and we could just throw money at it and it magically got released earlier.
But realistically it makes more sense to allow the devs to make an expansion they want to make and release it when it's ready, not when they have to.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Spin it however you want, SE has a shortage of devs. That's why yoship is constantly talking about how difficult it is to hire. People show up if the pay is right, if it isnt then they will look elsewhere.

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Something to be said also about hiring someone who's there just for the money, don't care two shits about the game and creates slop all year around, gets fired and it's a loss on everyone. SE especially for wasting time with someone like that. ������
I would imagine atleast that SE would like to hire someone who has genuine interest in improving the games they make and being part of the team.

While I know there's pvp ranked seasons which has a shorter period than a series. With 6.5 and 6.55 back then I was a bit surprised we didn't get two series for the 8 months wait.

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Originally Posted by Kirutsuki

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The content they're producing right now isn't enough to keep up with the current patch cadence, both in terms of quality and quantity. If it were, we wouldn't be seeing so many players leaving this expansion. Rewards are supposed to complement content, not mask a low-quality product. The two go hand in hand. The main issue is that most casual content, by design, can be finished within a single day, and repeating it quickly becomes tiring for the majority of the playerbase. It's the same bosses, same trash packs, no friction. CBU3 can't be short-minded, and really needs to improve both the content itself and the rewards that go with it.

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Originally Posted by brinn12

The content they're producing right now isn't enough to keep up with the current patch cadence, both in terms of quality and quantity. If it were, we wouldn't be seeing so many players leaving this expansion. Rewards are supposed to complement content, not mask a low-quality product. The two go hand in hand. The main issue is that most casual content, by design, can be finished within a single day, and repeating it quickly becomes tiring for the majority of the playerbase. It's the same bosses, same trash packs, no friction. CBU3 can't be short-minded, and really needs to improve both the content itself and the rewards that go with it.

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Yes, that would be ideal, but my issue is that producing such content would take alot of time from the devs and we already have an issue of waiting for that content.
So rather than try and hope every-single-time when they introduce something new that it will please all players, why not add smaller scale reward implementations to the game that
don't take a so long to design and playtest and just add rewards for player activity regardless of level. why is it for example that special treasure maps are only obtainable reasonably from Moogle events etc?
While it might not be the perfect solution, it would be a solution that's easier to implement and add player retention in some form.

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Originally Posted by Kirutsuki

No one's talking about changing patch cycle jeesh. Again it would only effect this cycle, not what happens afterwards.
Obviously if SE decides that now that they have longer time between the expansions they decide to increase the gap between patches, that'd be bad.

But delaying a single expansion shouldn't effect what happens after in a negative way, the best solution would be that they can do patches beyond .58 since they have more time.

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The same one off 9 month expansion delay basically killed the back half of EW and was basically held together by a hope that DT would be good (it wasn’t)

I doubt the playerbase would tolerate another of those 9-12 month delays because we are at the point wheee the patch cycle is already so long if they can’t factor in massive changes in 8.0 to the 7.x dev cycle then something is seriously wrong

I mean I wouldn't mind waiting if the game was getting a massive overhaul but I don't think that's happening. The amount of time we wait for less content that is one and done, unfinished, or completely misses the mark is unacceptable. Thats why people are leaving. If they actually made a change to this by doing an overhaul coupled with a plan for either content that has more replayability, and better rewards, or shorter patch cycles, then I think a lot less people would complain.

Yeah that’s a fair point

If yoshi p came out and said at the NA fanfest “we are delaying 8.0 by 6 months to do THIS to every job” then presented a comprehensive example overhaul of a class in each major role and launched a test server allowing us to play around with them then I’d actually be fine with a 6 month gap (I’d probably still unsub during it but I’d understand why they are going it)

But the period of “yoshi p said trust him so I’m going to blind trust him” is long long past

My above point still stands though that I think these changes should be included in 7.x’s patch cycle but I’d accept the delay if I had tangible evidence of some type of overhaul that shakes out he entire game up

If it was, I think it'd be a bad idea for this game. The patch cycle is already hurting the game and if the expansion is going to be 2027 well I can see the sub numbers dropping lower than they are now as people will be tired

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

If yoshi p came out and said at the NA fanfest “we are delaying 8.0 by 6 months to do THIS to every job” then presented a comprehensive example overhaul of a class in each major role and launched a test server allowing us to play around with them then I’d actually be fine with a 6 month gap (I’d probably still unsub during it but I’d understand why they are going it)

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Tbh that idea of a test server for playing job changes is important if the expansion is releasing any later than jan 2027. Letting people get hands on and being made to believe again would go a long ways when compared to words and promises. It's not even just about giving people something to try and getting their feedback closer to the product, it's about the seriousness involved in including people in that type of testing.