Can Humans transformed into Pirmals temper?

I don't know how best to call them, but can the kind of Primals that are transformed Humans, like Shiva, Thorden, Tsukuyomi and the Heaven's Ward temper others like purely summoned Primals can?
I don't remember this ever coming up in the game.

I don't think we can judge off of any of them, since Ysale would probably not have wanted to temper anyone, Thordan never got the chance, since we thrashed him right after his transformation, Yatsuyu neither had the opportunity nor would have wanted to, and the Heaven's Ward appear to be a far lesser version (though with plenty of motivation to do it), so their inability to temper might be due this lesser transformation.

Yes, the Heavens Ward are explicitly tempered by Thordan.

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Originally Posted by No_Nick_Needed

I don't know how best to call them

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I usually call them "incarnate summons" for short.

The lore on them has been reframed a few times over the years, too, so it's not surprising it's a little confusing; but Layte is correct.


When Shiva was the only example, Nabriales framed the phenomenon as a brand new idea Lahabrea had tasked him to make work, and suggested that the Echo was what made it possible. There was a suggestion that the heretics might be tempered, but only to keep you guessing about her values and intentions, it turned out.

That envelope was already being pushed by Thordan only a couple patches later. The metaphysics behind Thordan were explained out-of-world - by the developers - several times, but it turned out that contradictory information was given, suggesting perhaps that there were multiple drafts of the explanation behind the scenes and not everyone was up to date on the latest version. One version was that individual primals were summoned into each of the Heavens' Ward to "perfect the process", which was finally used for Thordan. In that version, you could perhaps expect the entire Ward to be able to temper. However, if that version was ever true, it no longer is. The later explanation was that Thordan was summoned first and is the only actual primal in play - the Ward received a "blessing" from him and their transformations were an extension of Thordan's power through that blessing.

This also left a few things in an ambiguous space. For one, if it was true (at any time in the writing process) that Shiva was only possible due to the Echo, was it ever intended that anyone involved in the Ishgard story would have been given the Echo? Elidibus randomly gave a Sahagin the Echo as the Throdan story's ingredients were being introduced. That Sahagin was then consumed by Leviathan. Was that a foreshadow of how Thordan works and Lahabrea's eventual fate? Or were those just coincidences? We did see Elidibus standing with Lahabrea behind Thordan, after all, but that doesn't rule out "coincidence". I asked that question in an interview once and Oda-san preferred to dodge the subject entirely for the time being. (I suspect he was concerned that solving a single point of confusion before it was absolutely necessary might create bigger problems down the line.)

Another question left open at the time was whether Thordan tempered the knights. Early PR blurbs said that he held the threat over their heads, suggesting he hadn't. But to what degree could they avoid his influence if they were "blessed"? Later on, Oda-san invoked the "degrees of tempering" lore, saying that Thordan only baked them "rare" but held the threat of "well-done" over their heads. (Perhaps this dynamic of blessing/tempering was even part of why they were made one primal instead of a dozen, and why the Echo was no longer mentioned as an ingredient in incarnate summoning.)

By the time we got to Tsukiyomi, some other questions remained and we had new ones from Susano besides - but SE was ready to answer them. The Echo is not required, but if you don't have it, incarnate summoning will temper you to whatever your own whims and desires were at the time of the summoning, and - as we then knew from Thordan - you might temper others to them, as well.

Incidentally, I don't know that we ever learned for sure whether "Elidibus gave Thordan the Echo" or "Thordan tempered himself" was more likely. It's almost more fun to not know for sure; both work, and it opens the door to the question, "Would it even have made a practical difference in his case?" That "What are you?" scene, where he sees you from his perspective, is even more uncomfortable if you can't be sure.

Anyroad, rambling aside, Layte is correct.

Not only were the Ward tempered, but Thordan suggests that a big part of his plan was essentially to build the Holy Ishgardian Empire through mass "blessing" (which I speculate was intended by Elidibus to create a casus belli for dramatically escalated Garlean aggression and a calamity-scale conflict).

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Oda (in an interview with 4gamer):
After former Heavens' Ward archimandrite, Ser Vaindreau de Rouchemande “retired”, Zephirin was chosen as archimandrite and was allowed to designate the new members of the Heavens’ Ward. The knights were turned when all twelve were granted an audience with the archbishop for the first time. Keep in mind that becoming tempered does not necessarily mean that the individual loses all their memories and characteristics. The archbishop, in particular could not risk the populace becoming suspicious of his actions, so he didn’t “fully cook” the knights of the Heavens' Ward into mindless tempered, opting to keep them at a “rare” state instead. Thus they were not puppets that did nothing but repeat words of worship, but he nevertheless ensured that they would obey his orders and never betray him. This is the difference between him and the other primals like Ifrit, who prefer their tempered “well done”.

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Unending Codex
Upon their return to the capital, Estinien and his companions discovered that Archbishop Thordan VII had plotted to wield the power of a primal to transform himself into an eternal god-king and bless the world with his twisted idea of harmony.

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Thordan (EN)
By my blessing shall all men be sanctified, and an endless era of peace begin. Vice and conflict shall cease to be.

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Thordan (JP)
そして すべての人に祝福をあたえ
清らかなる聖徒に造り替え 恒久の平和を授けよう
I will bestow a blessing on the people - transform them into pure saints - and grant them everlasting peace.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I usually call them "incarnate summons" for short.

The lore on them has been reframed a few times over the years, too, so it's not surprising it's a little confusing; but Layte is correct.

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I've liked to call them 'channeled primals'. Because the only difference is that they're being channeled through a person, rather than summoned in and of themselves.

But yeah, the short answer is that they can, and the main reason we can't be certain of that is that they mostly didn't. Either because of lack of opportunity in Tsukuyomi's case, outright avoiding the circumstances that would lead to it in Hydaelyn's, or perhaps unintentionally avoiding the circumstances in Shiva's. In contrast, the core evidence that they can is Thordan, which as Anonymoose said, was an out-of-game, years-later explanation, but is one that broadly tracks.

I also personally think that Zodiark is one of these; that's kinda hard to tell, we don't have a lot of details on the summoning act there. If Zodiark counts, he also tempered.

And as to whether or not Thordan had the Echo... I honestly think the story is better if he doesn't. He's a man seeped in his own delusions, it makes total sense that he's locked into them by self-tempering.

I always assumed that the Sahagin shaman had the echo naturally, and the Ascians just taught him to do this trick with it. After all the not-yet-WoL had the echo dormant in them, presumably for some time, before it awakened during the early parts of the story, maybe it was the same with teh Sahagin, that he just had not awakening it, but it was already there, when the Ascians started meddling with him.

Then again, between Zenos and Fordola, we know that the echo can be given, copied or transfered in some manour artificially and if the Garleans can do it, then surely the Ascians can too.

I think Zodiark and Hydaelyn are different. The others all returned to their original bodies, once their primal body was killed. But Zodiarka nd Hydaelyn didn't, they just disappeared. And with Zodiark, I think we can also safely assume that it was the prayers and sacrifices by the worshippers that altered his "tempering" rather than Elidibus himself at the moment of the summoning. After all the original plan was to only rewrite the celestial currents to block the Song of Oblivion, which was then altered into rebuilding the world and then again altered into killing the "lesser races" to revive the dead Ancients.

The partial tempering though is interesting. Could that be, what the blessing of light is, Hydaelyn partially tempering us, but in a way that preserves our free will?

I agree that Thordan not having the Echo fits better, especially with his "What are you!" line, right before his end.

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Originally Posted by No_Nick_Needed

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A number of those points do have answers:

The Sahagin did naturally have the Echo. Anyone with a sundered soul has it, but it needs to be awakened, usually by witnessing a star shower or the like. And while theoretically generating the "resonant" is possible, from what we've seen, it's not easy, and comes with a few drawbacks. Not to mention, the Ascian's were never hinted to have such a power. Emet-Selch did note that they could raise a soul without the echo into an Ascian, but that it works better with those who do have the echo.

Zodiark & Hydaelyn are different to most other primals, in that there were the first ones and so made with different means. Zodiark was, in essence, a Mech-Suit for Elidibus, and so when he exited it as a new primal in his own right, Zodiark was left a husk of power. While Hydaelyn was likely the same, Venat felt no need to leave, and so didn't. Livingway mentions that Zodiark & Hydaelyn, due to the nature of their creation, didn't have tempering in mind, however Zodiark was so large and operated n so huge a scale that other beings would be affected by him. Much like how an engine will always make loud noises if it gets too big. When the Ascians gave the broken rituals to the beast tribes to conjure their gods, they did so in such a manner that summoning would maximise the impact, like making an engine designed to produce excess noise.

Also the Blessing of Light ain't tempering, Y'shtola can see tempering, and even mentioned the dangers of absorbing light in Shadowbringers. The Blessing of Light is, in truth, not one thing but a catch all term for any direct intervention by Hydaelyn. Stripping the primals from the Ultima Weapon, empowering the crystals of light, the aegis against aetherial corruption, a method of communion, all of these are manifestations of her blessing. And so all fall under the label, Blessing of Light.

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Originally Posted by Layte_Aeon

Also the Blessing of Light ain't tempering, Y'shtola can see tempering, and even mentioned the dangers of absorbing light in Shadowbringers. The Blessing of Light is, in truth, not one thing but a catch all term for any direct intervention by Hydaelyn. Stripping the primals from the Ultima Weapon, empowering the crystals of light, the aegis against aetherial corruption, a method of communion, all of these are manifestations of her blessing. And so all fall under the label, Blessing of Light.

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This is kinda true, but not quite right.

There is one specific thing that feels like it's codified as 'the Blessing of Light', and it's the 'traveler's ward' that protects against aetheric corruption. it is specifically a ward, it does this very specific thing, it has never been any form of tempering, and in fact the only person in-universe who ever suggests that it's tempering is immediately told that he's wrong by his own god, who's kind of an expert on the subject. (Weird how people only ever remember and put weight on one half of that exchange.)

Other acts by Hydaelyn aren't 'the Blessing of Light' and don't ever seen to be specifically called that in the game by my reckoning, but are understandably sort of rolled up into a similar ballpark by some. But if someone ever specifically refers to 'the Blessing of Light' as a specific, non-abstract thing, then it refers to the traveler's ward. Kind of a squares and rectangles thing.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

This is kinda true, but not quite right.

There is one specific thing that feels like it's codified as 'the Blessing of Light', and it's the 'traveler's ward' that protects against aetheric corruption. it is specifically a ward, it does this very specific thing, it has never been any form of tempering, and in fact the only person in-universe who ever suggests that it's tempering is immediately told that he's wrong by his own god, who's kind of an expert on the subject. (Weird how people only ever remember and put weight on one half of that exchange.)

Other acts by Hydaelyn aren't 'the Blessing of Light' and don't ever seen to be specifically called that in the game by my reckoning, but are understandably sort of rolled up into a similar ballpark by some. But if someone ever specifically refers to 'the Blessing of Light' as a specific, non-abstract thing, then it refers to the traveler's ward. Kind of a squares and rectangles thing.

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Really? I could have sworn the Encyclopaedia Eorzea 1 had a page on the Blessing of Light which described it as Hydaelyn’s direct interventions. And I’m pretty sure no new info contradicts that, this game’s usually pretty good about that.

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Originally Posted by Layte_Aeon

Really? I could have sworn the Encyclopaedia Eorzea 1 had a page on the Blessing of Light which described it as Hydaelyn’s direct interventions. And I’m pretty sure no new info contradicts that, this game’s usually pretty good about that.

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You're right about that section, and I did forget it! I blame the fact its text kinda blends in to the art behind it, so I kept skipping it.

That said, the way the writing has evolved over the years since then made the term much more specific in its use; in Shadowbringers and especially Endwalker, the 'Blessing of Light' is used exclusively to describe the corruption protection, perhaps in part because at that point Hydaelyn wasn't really doing any of the other stuff. It's not exactly contradictory to that paragraph in the EE1, so much as a necessary narrowing of terms: as the story started focusing much more on this one specific thing Hydaelyn was doing, it started becoming the Blessing of Light, if only because that one specific thing needed a name.

There is the whole early game muddling of what is the echo and what is the blessing of light. As until late Stormblood and even then more so Shadowbringers do those two start to be separated. I want to say Thordan was also able to strip their tempering or at the very least the archbishop didn't care if he had to allow one of the Heavens Ward to die. As with how Charibert joined the Heavens Ward in the tales from the dragonsong war story: What Remains of a Knight.

I also don't think everyone has the echo or at least has the innate ability to awaken to it as any newer souls that came to be after the sundering wouldn't seemingly be able to have an etched in memory of the original final days. As most of the Scions have born witness to multiple starshowers without awakening to the echo. The WoL's 1st known chance at seeing one would have been during one of the 10yr time prior to 1.0's happenings echo flash backs of the one that appeared during the battle of Silvertear sky. Or as a child/teenager when that event would have happened naturally in their life span.

What or who can temper is an interesting thing. As even inanimate objects that are bathed in a primal's aether is enough to temper someone. As the big beacons that have an aggro link to an Amalj'aa are alit with Ifrit's flames. Same with the metal poles with flames where a candle would be and the weapons you occasionally are sent out to go and collect. I haven't done the sylphs recently, but I would assume the beacons in the slyph lands that also have an aggro link to a slyph are bathed in Ramuh's ather. Bahamut is the only primal (outside of Thordan most likely) who has been shown to untemper their thralls. Bahamut is also the only primal that is shown to be capable of tempering other primals.

Even though we are told followers of a primal are capable of tempering others we don't see a whole lot of it happening. Amalj'aa do raids, but they seem to bring their captives to their priests who then summon Ifrit and Ifrit then tempers them. We see this in the 1.0 dealing with them and the 2.0 dealings. Though they probably started to rely on non transformed non Amalj'aa tempered as it would be easier to trick non Amalj'aa this way. Not so much with the Sahagin where the drowned are fairly obvious so they like the Ixali just do it themselves. Meanwhile the Kolbolds, Sylphs, Gnath, Vanu Vanu and maybe the Red Kojin tend to only kidnap people if you're dumb enough to step into their territory. The Red Kojin seem to only really be aggressive when someone is paying them to do so though. The Gnath also seem to only temper their own kind and Ravana seems to only be interested in fighting.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

What or who can temper is an interesting thing. As even inanimate objects that are bathed in a primal's aether is enough to temper someone. As the big beacons that have an aggro link to an Amalj'aa are alit with Ifrit's flames. Same with the metal poles with flames where a candle would be and the weapons you occasionally are sent out to go and collect. I haven't done the sylphs recently, but I would assume the beacons in the slyph lands that also have an aggro link to a slyph are bathed in Ramuh's ather. Bahamut is the only primal (outside of Thordan most likely) who has been shown to untemper their thralls. Bahamut is also the only primal that is shown to be capable of tempering other primals.

Even though we are told followers of a primal are capable of tempering others we don't see a whole lot of it happening. Amalj'aa do raids, but they seem to bring their captives to their priests who then summon Ifrit and Ifrit then tempers them. We see this in the 1.0 dealing with them and the 2.0 dealings. Though they probably started to rely on non transformed non Amalj'aa tempered as it would be easier to trick non Amalj'aa this way. Not so much with the Sahagin where the drowned are fairly obvious so they like the Ixali just do it themselves. Meanwhile the Kolbolds, Sylphs, Gnath, Vanu Vanu and maybe the Red Kojin tend to only kidnap people if you're dumb enough to step into their territory. The Red Kojin seem to only really be aggressive when someone is paying them to do so though. The Gnath also seem to only temper their own kind and Ravana seems to only be interested in fighting.

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An interesting question with tempering to me is Alexander. Regular people, at least one 100% confirmably without the Echo, were literally inside the thing for an extended period, and yet none of them got tempered. You could theorize that it's because Alexander didn't want to do that, but neither did Ramuh, and he was still doing it.

My personal theory on that is, because tempering was a fault in the process engineered by the Ascians, the Illuminati's primal didn't temper because they're engineers, they saw the problem and fixed it.

What is even more interesting is Cid being one of those non echo users should have by the time Alexander comes around been tempered twice over. Once by by Bahamut through close proximity to his father and again while piloting his airship during our fighting with Bismarck. The man must have put some stats into luck.

For the time being, I just settled on a theory that it's possible for it to vary from primal to primal whether they have a "leaky aura", how far it reaches, how powerful its corruptive potential is, etc.


Imagine trying to build a Gundam. We could probably find the raw materials and design workable schematics, but how do you supply enough power to make it actually do the things you want it to do? How do you design computer systems capable of managing the things it would need to manage?

Summoning a primal into Alexander's core was simply the most efficient, effective way to get around the practical limitations of its own design. The actual corrupting aura, if it even had one, might have been limited or contained.

Might be a very different scenario from, say, standing directly next to Zurvan.

The main thing about the Alexander scenario that always bothered me is that they never mention tempering as far as I remember. It just doesn't come up, even as a "it's interesting it's not tempering anyone" or "we're lucky we weren't tempered". Which always seemed odd to me because Heavensward and its patches was when the game was doing a whole lot of thinking about how tempering worked.

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Originally Posted by Zero-ELEC

The main thing about the Alexander scenario that always bothered me is that they never mention tempering as far as I remember. It just doesn't come up, even as a "it's interesting it's not tempering anyone" or "we're lucky we weren't tempered". Which always seemed odd to me because Heavensward and its patches was when the game was doing a whole lot of thinking about how tempering worked.

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It also didn't come up around Bismarck, even though the Ironworks were also there for that. Granted, that one's a little more actively dangerous if you're close to it; worrying about tempering while flying next to Bismarck is like worrying you might get skin cancer while flying directly into the sun.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

As even inanimate objects that are bathed in a primal's aether is enough to temper someone.

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As part of the Amalj'aa allied society dailies, you can get a quest where you cure captives from tempering with sacred ashes, so I suspect that the tempering done by other tempered or via items is far, far weaker, not to mention reversible, so the priests probably bring those converted that way to Ifrit so they can get a full-strength, non-reversible (prior to Porxies) tempering. Who knows, maybe this imperfect tempering might even wear off over time, if it's not overwritten with a proper one done by the primal.


As for Alexander, it might operate to slightly different rules on account of being a machine, not a living being. Though some primals being able to consciously avoid tempering also makes sense, since there are others where this issue popps up, like Tsukuyomi, who had the opportunity to quickly temper Hien, Asahi, Maxima and a couple of others, but didn't even try.

There also some inconsistency in how we've seen and heard primals tempering. We saw Ifrit and Lakshmi temper, or try to temper others by hitting them with something, the blue fire in case of Ifrit and Lakshmi with the blobs we intercepted, while other primals are said to temper with their mere presence. And Bahamut was able to remotely temper Cid's father through a transmission.
Could be differences in the summoning process or individual charactersitics of the primals, or their summoners.

I do not like how the tempering works in FF14. There is literary no consistency how it happens. It happens through blue fire, blue blobs, the summoning of the primal itself, walkie-talkie, a loud scream of a primal and now also through some devices on the head. It has become too arbitrary, IMHO.


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

I do not like how the tempering works in FF14. There is literary no consistency how it happens. It happens through blue fire, blue blobs, the summoning of the primal itself, walkie-talkie, a loud scream of a primal and now also through some devices on the head. It has become too arbitrary, IMHO.


Cheers

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It happens through aether. Tempering is overaspecting something into the primals' element with the addition of memory manipulation. It doesn't matters how it happens, just that there's a vehicle through which it happens.

We also have Sylph quests for how you don't even need the primal alive to temper others, as Tempered Sylphs use Ramuh's aether to temper others. As far as I've understood it, when summoning a large enough primal, they can temper through the mere act of summoning (Zodiark), and afterwards the Primal must consciously temper (Ifrit, Lakshmi, Garuda), and if there's an object with enough residual aether from the primal (Sylphs), it can even be used to temper by itself. And that's not even getting into Zantesuken, which tempers its wielder.

It's not uncommon for the summoners of a primal to be tempered during the summoning by "coming into symbiosis" (to quote one variant of Emet-Selch's dialogue) with the primal's aether and psycho-spiritual will. The will of Zodiark was simply so strong that not even the ancients could summon him without it happening (though it sounds like they only understood this in retrospect). This was also explored a bit with Ga Bu and Tiamat.

I think a summary of the mechanics would be:

• Primal summoners are often tempered by the summoning itself
• A primal might have a "leaky aura" that drags you under their influence just standing in their vicinity
• A primal can deliberately bathe you in corrupting aether (the way the aether is "cast" might vary from primal to primal)
• The "bath" of corrupting aether can leave an "aetherioactive residue" on stuff, and then that stuff can be used to temper indirectly for a time

In Endwalker, Livingway introduces a loop-hole: the summoning ritual taught by the Ascians was deliberately designed to temper the summoners regardless of how powerful the primal was, so if you remove that, and don't summon anything too, too strong, and you plan for it to be a nice primal that doesn't temper things, you can avoid the risk and power your super cool starship with them.

I think it's far more useful to look at tempering as a debilitating symptom rather than as something like a disease in its own right. A lot of similar-but-different things can cause it, but the end result is always more or less the same.

Considering how there's void corruption, sin eater corruption and levin sickness, as well as the tempering, all of which can be cured by restoring the aetherial balance of the affected person as long as it hasn't progressed too far yet, that's a good way to look at it.

Tempering is actual two afflictions in tandem. The first is the purposefully improper ritual of summoning the ascians gave to the beast tribes which causes brainwashing. Then there is the overexposure to aether from a specific element.

Sin Eater corruption is a more advanced form of tempering but also partly different. As its not just an affliction of the mind, but being immeadiately overexposued to light-aspected aether. And since the skies were always daytime because of the rampant light, it meant that a worsening of the condition would not improve for the betterment of the afflicted. Although most sin eaters presented are more simple minded, often bestial, with tesleen showing to have declining mental faculties for independent thought until becoming more violent by holminster switch. Which is either from vauthries influence or light aether itself. Not to mention how the patient zeroes, the lightwardens, seem to have little thought process beyond combat and how the lightwardens themselves are actually dangerous for most people even if slain as they can just reemerge.

Levin sickness is merely being affected by too much lightning aether but none of the traditional effects of tempering.

Void corruption, we can only presumes behaves somewhat similarly to sin eater corruption. But the main difference, aside from hunger, is that voidsent are often shown as capable of intelligent thought. Whether that is an aspect of dark aether or not in contrast to sin eaters and light aether might be conjecture.

What could possibly be theorized given this context is that even after a full aetheric transformation, such as with the voidsent or sin eaters, it might be possible to mentally rehabilitate something through the use of a porxie. As that is partly what a porxie was invented for, rehabilitation of the mind when simply affecting an overaspecting of aether in the body wasn't enough.

The difference between dark and light corruption might be the controlling effect of Vauthry, or something the Ascians induced intentionally, after learning their lesson from the mistakes they did with the 13th.
Or it could also be the very nature of the respective aether. Light is stasis, which might partially or entirely shut down certain parts of the brain, while darkness is the exact opposite and thus might push those parts into constant overdrive.

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Originally Posted by No_Nick_Needed

The difference between dark and light corruption might be the controlling effect of Vauthry, or something the Ascians induced intentionally, after learning their lesson from the mistakes they did with the 13th.
Or it could also be the very nature of the respective aether. Light is stasis, which might partially or entirely shut down certain parts of the brain, while darkness is the exact opposite and thus might push those parts into constant overdrive.

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Then there is the time difference. Voidsent have had a few millennia to relearn how to speak if aether aspect doesn't affect it. Meanwhile it's only been a 100 years for most sineaters. The only ones we've seen to have some form of speech were Tesleen, the former Titania and Vauthry as Innocence. Even the drowned are capable of speech; even if that might mostly just be "Oh, Mighty Leviathan." or some variation of that.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Even the drowned are capable of speech; even if that might mostly just be "Oh, Mighty Leviathan." or some variation of that.

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Several of the Drowned are actually quite articulate and self-aware, if you listen to dialog around the Sahagin society quest's areas. Hell, Captain Madison in Sastasha Hard seems pretty lucid, at least as far as he goes. That's not overly surprising now that we have much more experience with and knowledge of tempering, it makes sense that they might just not be that heavily tempered, but it was kind of notable for a while.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Several of the Drowned are actually quite articulate and self-aware, if you listen to dialog around the Sahagin society quest's areas. Hell, Captain Madison in Sastasha Hard seems pretty lucid, at least as far as he goes. That's not overly surprising now that we have much more experience with and knowledge of tempering, it makes sense that they might just not be that heavily tempered, but it was kind of notable for a while.

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It's just more that they're the only seen and interacted with tempered that has been transformed physically to some degree. As we don't see what anyone or anything that has been physically altered from other aetherical offsets look like outside of Sephirot's adds. Course he could have just conjured those, but then I do think that is what you would look like if altered physically by earthen aether as it is the example we are shown in Owen's presentation.

Not to mention Sephirot is from Meracydia, so who knows what those adds were originally, before transforming. They could have been something like Centaurs with four legs and two arms or something like that to begin with, rather than something Humanoid in shape.

So, About Primal Channeling and the Tempering process

To start off, let's quickly discuss just what Tempering actually is.

Tempering, as we understand it particularly following the events of Shadowbringers and the initial untempering of Ga Bu with the Porxie by Alisaie, is a result of a Primal essentially "overwriting" one of the Incorporeal Aethers that compose a person, overriding their mind with it's own will as revealed by Ga Bu's accounts following him being cured of the condition of his experience. The Primal suppresses the mind of the victim and essentially "copies" their own will into them, with the extent to which this is done determining just how mindless the victim becomes. In extreme cases, the victim becomes like the Drowned or the Garleans encountered in the Tower of Babil dungeon.

However these cases of Corporeal Corruption aren't because the person was Tempered. Rather, they're a side effect of the overexposure to Aether, which at high concentrations results in either Oversaturation or Overaspectation, depending on the aetheric composition of the Primal in question.

While essentially the same concept, Oversaturation and Overaspectation have slightly different causes, and their result differs, as does the third condition in this vein, which is Overpolarization. In all three cases, the condition results from overexposure to aether of some sort, with the first being due to overexposure to unaspected aether, (or at least aether which doesn't trigger the other two conditions instead.) Overaspectation resulting from overexposure to aspected aether of a given sort, and Overpolarization being a result of overexposure to a single polarity to the extreme.

Essentially, what happens is in cases where a person is exposed to aether to the point that their body cannot physically hold more, they undergo corporeal corruption, with the way this manifests differing depending on the aspectation and polarity of the aether in question.
In Oversaturation, because no one aspect is dominant, crystallization occurs, which we see with the Crystal Exarch, as well as numerous examples of plantlife in places such as Mor Dhona or the Isle of Haam during Aetherfont.
In Overaspectation, the corruption often results in mutations and transformations that are thematically related to the aspect in question, resulting in beings such as the Drowned. Notably, this is also the reason that Black Mages tend to die without the soul crystal, since they become overaspected drawing in fire or ice, and corrupt in a related way. This particular flavor however seems to be able to be influenced by a Primal to some extent, further twisting the resulting corruption as seen in the case of corrupted telophoroi.
Overpolarization however is a result of overexposure to a single polarity to an extreme. However, being a measure of energy, Polarity equalizes much faster than aspect does, so you typically won't see corporeal corruption from Overpolarization outside of environments that're already steeped in the polarity, such as the First or Thirteenth, (or theoretically the deepest reaches of the Lost City of Amdapor, but that's speculative.)but in cases where it occurs, you get what're commonly known as Voidsent or Sin Eaters, depending on the polarity.

It's worth noting that all three of these conditions will trigger aethersickness before they reach the point of corporeal corruption, as the body becomes more and more suffused with aether and get nearer and nearer to that limit.

Additionally, it's also worth noting that, as mentioned repeatedly by G'raha Tia particularly following Shadowbringers during the efforts to cure tempering, you cannot un-corrupt someone who has become corrupted corporeally, (theoretically, an ancient would have the capacity, but it'd take that capacity for creation magics to be able to "unmake" the corruption.) but it's worth noting that Primal Manifestation is not a form of Corporeal Corruption.

(While i'm sure someone's going to point out Zero stops being corrupted looking during the post EW questline, she's a hybrid, which is a WHOLE can of worms that would require an entire other post to get into but it ultimately boils down to "she cannot be used as evidence for any other cases that aren't also hybrids.")

Regarding the actual causes of Tempering beyond the aetherial mechanics behind it, Tempering by most modern primals is a result of Ascians tampering with the ritual involved, as revealed by the loporrits during the effort to power the Ragnarok with the Mothercrystal. Primals summoned without the ritual, accordingly, would lack the compulsion to temper, though they'd still have the capacity to do so, and it's highly likely that extremely powerful primals would temper people unwittingly purely due to the sheer amount of aether exposure unless they made a deliberate effort not to do so, which is likely what happened with Zodiark before they were sealed.

As a result of this, it's logical to assume that anyone who summoned a Primal without having the Blessing of Light (also known as the Travelers Ward that Hydaelyn gives to anyone who hears her voice, (which seemed to be somewhat automatic anytime someone awoke the echo) would become tempered due to quite literally being bathed in the aether of the Primal in question. Depending on the Primal, however, the outcome of this tempering would differ.

In the case of the Archbishop, being the head of state and focal point of the Ishgardian Orthodox Church, it's highly possible that they were tempered simply by taking on the office of archbishop, (due to being the focus of the collective faith of Ishgard) though the actual mechanics of this are ALSO an entire other post's worth of explanation relating to lore we got from the Myths of the Realm raid series and other information we get about the way collective faith influences Primals. They then went on to "lightly temper" the Heaven's Ward to obey them.

In the case of Tsukiyomi, while Yotsuyu was almost definately tempered by the transformation, i'm not sure that they'd have gone on to temper anyone else, though she definately would have rampaged in Doma given the opportunity. This is largely because of how the collective faith of the Far East was concentrated on the mirror that served as the catalyst for her transformation, the same phenomenon that contributed to Susanoo manifesting of his own accord once sufficient faith (concentrated in the three Relics that were involved in him manifesting) was present in the same location.

Y'sayle meanwhile likely wouldn't have tempered anyone. Due to the Echo, she should theoretically have been fully immune to the influence of the collective faith that shaped Shiva, but it's worth noting that her followers may well have been tempered anyway just due to proximity depending on how often she manifested the primal in their vicinities.

In a related note, Vauthry's control over Sin Eaters would have essentially been a form of tempering being used as pseudotelepathy, at least in theory. As far as differences between Sin Eaters and Voidsent go though, i'd largely chalk that up to the nature of the polarities, and the time between their formation and the WoL arriving in their respective shards. But those differences make it hard to say for certain if Sin Eaters would have developed more coherent speech over time. Personally, I suspect it's purely a matter of the properties of the polarities, since the two Light wardens we encountered with actual sapience were both spoken who presumably would have had sufficient control and power to overcome the static nature of light.