So you acknowledge atma farm was awful but do it again 12 sec later?

Am I missing something? Are you all right? Have you decided your new goal is to troll the players? At least that would explain a lot.

What's your endgame? make every person that is not either super casual or part of the most hardcore players of the game feel like they don't have their place in this game.

The conspiracy theorist in me begins to wonder if you're trying to kill your game.

And (before people come saying I just want things for free) that's coming from someone who like farming, did every HW, SB (not the BA step) and ShB relics.

Rng farm is awful because most of the time, you only feel like you lost your time, while a grind where you see yourself progress slowly but surely is far more enjoyable. A lot of discussion happened about relics over the past 3 to 4 years, the community was divided, but if there was ONE thing that the vast majority of players agreed on : that "we didn't want another ARR relics, Atmas were the wrost". Surprise! We got atmas again. Seriously, can your team that collect feedback even read? At this point, it's a legit question.

I've waited this content for years, it's day 2 and I would prefer you added the relics of newer jobs to eureka. That was more fun. You can do all the other things right (and occult crescent do several of them very well), if it's more frustrating than fun to play, that's all for nothing.

[edit 29/05]

So after playing a little more, I have to be honest and correct myself. It seem I got VERY unlucky on my first run. I got 4,5 hours, I got one Atma. But playing more yesterday evening and this morning, I got 9 more in about 5/6 hours. So in the end, the drop rate is not that bad. I'm at one point where I consider needing one of each for every subsequent relic would not be so bad.

I still think rng farm and calling them atma was and explosive combination, because it send a really bad message if you get unlucky in the beginning. Of course the reaction would be bad. You basically convoque the worst farm image of the game head before sending them in a rng farm, that will lead everyone that has bad rng in the beginning think about that image you planted in their head yourself. It's shooting yourself in the foot. Classic SE...

Now there is also a world where I got very lucky since yesterday evening. Time will tell.

On the other hand, people cannot wait 12 second before starting a fate, far worse than Bozja. Eureka was the best community wise. People are self centered in that "community content".

[edit 30/05]
Back to bad RNG. 5 more hours, 2 atmas (that I already had enough of). So Idk what to thing of it. gets frustrating to not progress at all on 5 hours of time. So in the end, I feel it's ok enough, but it's more frustrating than eureka or even bozja/zadnor ever was. A pnj to exchange atmas from color to another would be nice (I think of you, the person that got only dropped 8 orange atmas, and the one with 9 yellow), even at a 1 vs 2 exchange rate. It would ease/the end of the grind, when you have most of them, but that one color continue to elude you while the other color drop like flies.

I think one of the bigger issues is Yoshi P and team can never find a balanced way to respond to player complaints. They swing from one extreme to the other extreme, rather than finding a middle ground. This ends up alienating one section of the playerbase for a time. Then after feedback/complaints, they swing in another direction too far and alienate another group.

I actually think the majority of the discussion in recent years has been that the relics were too easy to get in Endwalker and that the grind was important, made them feel earned and prestigious, and gave people something to do as opposed to "playing other games".

I do agree that fixed grinds are better in general, because you can plan it and know exactly how long it will take. But if it's just FATEs, it's whatever. They're FATEs. You don't have to think while doing those, and can focus on the social interaction in party chat instead.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I do agree that fixed grinds are better in general, because you can plan it and know exactly how long it will take.

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Maybe I'm the one person who finds fixed grinds to be… more like work or a job. There are no highs or lows in the process. Just bland, steady progress.

RNG is fine. It just needs a backstop. If it were up to me, {activity} would award 1 to N of {item}, and you need some multiple of N total items to proceed. The difference between zero and one at the low end makes a huge difference.

You need 3 of each color (so 3x6=18) and then you never have to do it again.
After it comes tomes farm, I don't know why you comlain?

It's not only about the actual farm, but the message it sends. As I said in another thread

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If there was ONE thing everyone agreed on, people that like grinding and those who don't, it's that we didn't want another ARR relic grind. The atmas left a such collective PTSD even players that weren't there at the time Atma grind was awful (today's atma grind is fine) still get the joke.

Fast forward a few years later, a lot of people are not happy with the direction the game is taking, and Occult crescent is the content they wait, hoping it will capture a fraction of the love they had for the game. And the first thing the present to you is doing the ONE THING everyone wished to avoid. It sends a really bad message. Of course people will strongly react. It's a PR nightmare, they tried to make a connection with the community by using a joke we all understand, without understanding why it became a joke, an did the exact same error they did 10 years ago.

Maybe this is blown a little out of proportion, but honestly what were they thinking? More than the fact they reused atmas, it's another proof they're out of touch with their community.When they joked about the atmas, I thought they called them like that to make a joke, and then it would be some kind of ShB relic grind. We would all have been "You got us there, we feared the worst". That would have created some kind of connivence between the players and the game. But in this reality, we actually got the worst.

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(ok PR nightmare was maybe a little too much, but it's still not a good move in term of image)

More complaining their relics aren't done in 12 hours.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

More complaining their relics aren't done in 12 hours.

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i think it's just RNG based often suck if you have bad RNG like if too me 2, days to not even have half of the atma and only have been doing that

The RNG kills it for me... FINE ill do 10exp per kill on an 5.000.000 bar, but "go and kill stuff, maybe 5 minutes, maybe 5 months...." just stop that.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

More complaining their relics aren't done in 12 hours.

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you could farm one ShB relics in about 30 hours. Nowadays SB ones are 25 to 30 hours.

There is nothing wrong with finding taking 24 hours for a first step too long.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

More complaining their relics aren't done in 12 hours.

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That's what it comes down to. I just started today and in just about 3-4 hours I already have 3 Atma. I'm not even trying to get it. I'm literally just trying to level my Phantom jobs and fit in a moment to progress my quests. And I already have 3/18.

In typical japanese fashion they're currently tackling feedback from 4 years back, that may explain the current situation.

As I posted in another thread, there is a middle ground between "Basically free" and "Awful RNG Grind"

Basically just take whatever the rates would look like after a nerf and do that now and it'd be fine.

I just wish there was a pity system. I shouldnt go 6 hours without seeing at least one drop. After at least 30 Fates I should get a guaranteed 1 drop.

Honestly I'm not hating it. I'm 10/18 right now, but most of that was today because RNG was bad yesterday. But the zone is fun, it literally forces you to pause every few hours to rezone, so I take breaks and come back a little later... I'm not mad. For a one-time thing, I can handle an atma grind. If it were for every single weapon, yeah, I would be upset. But this is fine. I've been doing a few hours in the evening, and I'm content with it taking a week or so.

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Originally Posted by Derio

I just wish there was a pity system. I shouldnt go 6 hours without seeing at least one drop. After at least 30 Fates I should get a guaranteed 1 drop.

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It's meant to be a long-term grind. Just something you come back to and chill for a few hours each day for a while. You can treat it as a social occasion to talk to people in Party Chat or Shout Chat. That's what made it great in ARR and Heavensward. The opportunity for social interaction that some players struggle to find in this game for some reason.

It's literally day 2. We have *looks at watch* 3 months until the next major patch? If they make it so you can be done day2 then the next thing we'll see is complaints that there's nothing to do and people saying "play other games". Devs can't win on these forums.

I don't care that the atma is grindy... Plenty to do in Occult Crescent and it's a one time step. Doubt everyone complaining is that far into OC

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Originally Posted by Teno

In typical japanese fashion they're currently tackling feedback from 4 years back, that may explain the current situation.

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Hard to expect anything revolutionary from a nation that just gave up floppydisks and still use fax machines.
I'm surprised they arent using smokesigns to do liveletters. The liveletters are a good system, but are pretty much PR and not about answering questions or feedback, would kill for a roadmap every now and then but all we get is "please look forward to it" and at worst the Japanese "no" in 50 different flavors because they cant actually utter the word "NO" to requests and keep you hoping for years.

I feel like I'll get all the atma before maxing 2 phantom jobs or getting even 1 part of the gold coin glam I want. Only need 7 more atma pieces for the first relic step.

yeah thats rng... of course there are a few people who only need like 20 fates for it xD. think of the ones who need like 500 fates

Frankly it's a little too fast. At this rate I'm gonna have it done in a week.

You only have to do it once then it's the same as endwalkers
i dont see the problem tbh, yeah its a grind, but the game needs more of those

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Originally Posted by Asari5

yeah thats rng... of course there are a few people who only need like 20 fates for it xD. think of the ones who need like 500 fates

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I got the 10,000 FATE achievement a long time ago.

The bicolor mounts were over 3,000 FATEs if you didn't do the big bosses.

No it's perfect

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Originally Posted by FuturePastNow

No it's perfect

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Yeah, I just love wasting my time doing fates for six hours to get 0 atma. What a freaking joy. What great "content"!

I have to agree that RNG is the issue for me, I don't feel like I'm always progressing to anything while doing it fully RNG and the fact it's prolly easier to grind fates outside of crescent the new content I actually want to play.

Though I don't think the grind is bad as people are making it out to be at least time wise grinds should be long.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I think one of the bigger issues is Yoshi P and team can never find a balanced way to respond to player complaints. They swing from one extreme to the other extreme, rather than finding a middle ground. This ends up alienating one section of the playerbase for a time. Then after feedback/complaints, they swing in another direction too far and alienate another group.

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In my opinion it's simple remove rng and remove caps. If they want it to take long then make it collect a higher amount of each, but each fate has a guaranteed drop of one of them. As for caps instead of 2 pieces needed for feet you up it to 4 or increase how many tomes for an item and then when they want it speeded up cut the items needed.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

Yeah, I just love wasting my time doing fates for six hours to get 0 atma. What a freaking joy. What great "content"!

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With them dedicating 7.3X to the deep dungeon, you have 6 months at the absolute minimum until the next step will come out. You can chip away at it by doing a few CEs a week and will be back to tomestones with months to spare.

It's a one-time grind that doesn't take that long. You don't have to play the game if you don't want to.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

With them dedicating 7.3X to the deep dungeon, you have 6 months at the absolute minimum until the next step will come out. You can chip away at it by doing a few CEs a week and will be back to tomestones with months to spare.

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I have zero interest in Occult Crescent. In fact, I despise field content. So I am doing the fates in the zones. Which is miserable too.

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Originally Posted by Underscore

It's a one-time grind that doesn't take that long. You don't have to play the game if you don't want to.

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Believe me, after 12 years and thousands of dollars I am ready to delete my character and account permanently.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

i dont see the problem tbh, yeah its a grind, but the game needs more of those

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The problem is it's not a grind, it's RNG. You could get them all in a day or it could take a week. Getting the Cosmic Exploration 500k mount is a grind, there's no way to get lucky and finish it in a day.

It's been multiple days now. Still feels like shit. I hope I'm done with it soon enough so I can move to tomes and play what I like for my relics.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I actually think the majority of the discussion in recent years has been that the relics were too easy to get in Endwalker and that the grind was important, made them feel earned and prestigious, and gave people something to do as opposed to "playing other games".

I do agree that fixed grinds are better in general, because you can plan it and know exactly how long it will take. But if it's just FATEs, it's whatever. They're FATEs. You don't have to think while doing those, and can focus on the social interaction in party chat instead.

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There has been not a single party chat interaction so far on my end. Zero. Even shout chat is dead beyond the lfg shouts.
Guess why? There is nothing to work out together. The party is just a requirement to ensure you get gold rating or healed in CEs.
Some people will say "it's up to you to just banter", well I tried. People don't respond much if at all and I can understand why. And to be perfectly fair, I'd rather actually play the game for the game itself, and not to have a glorified chat session for which discord with friends provides generally a lot more for.
Another reason why: there is no time to waste! Fates shotgun spawn one after another, you have to port and run and port and run all the time, can't write in the chat a lot, too busy.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

The problem is it's not a grind, it's RNG. You could get them all in a day or it could take a week. Getting the Cosmic Exploration 500k mount is a grind, there's no way to get lucky and finish it in a day.

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I second that , RNG is low effort and lame...
I finished my weapon yesterday, some people that have played as much if not more than me are still halfway.

I wouldn't mind the grind if they could just be more inventive than just defaulting to "FATE farm #327"

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Originally Posted by CNitsah

Rng farm is awful because most of the time, you only feel like you lost your time, while a grind where you see yourself progress slowly but surely is far more enjoyable.

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As annoying as the Atma farm can be, I prefer it *much* more than farming for Nexus lights. Instead of doing FATEs, which give you other benefits aside from just the atma, you did old content that barely gave you anything over and over again.

Do people *really* think that's better than an RNG farm where you at least have a chance at quickly making a lot of progress?

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Originally Posted by Andevom

As annoying as the Atma farm can be, I prefer it *much* more than farming for Nexus lights. Instead of doing FATEs, which give you other benefits aside from just the atma, you did old content that barely gave you anything over and over again.

Do people *really* think that's better than an RNG farm where you at least have a chance at quickly making a lot of progress?

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Yes, absolutely.

People hated lights because somebody on reddit told them that A2S or ARF or whatever was the best light per hour, so they just spammed that over and over and drove themselves mad. I did mine just running whatever and it was fine.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

Do people *really* think that's better than an RNG farm where you at least have a chance at quickly making a lot of progress?

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The people that are still farming it while i am done, not because i have done anything more / better than them do yeah.
Just got carried by putting an unreasonnable on hours on it in 2 days and got carried by luck.
You are not working on something, not doing a tast, just rely on RNG god to give you a present.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

As annoying as the Atma farm can be, I prefer it *much* more than farming for Nexus lights. Instead of doing FATEs, which give you other benefits aside from just the atma, you did old content that barely gave you anything over and over again.

Do people *really* think that's better than an RNG farm where you at least have a chance at quickly making a lot of progress?

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Yes, a lot of people really do think the Nexus step is great and well designed. You mention you like the Atma because you can be lucky and "make a lot of progress" in one go. Consider the flip side of that: most of that time, you're making ZERO progress, and this is a really terrible feeling. We much prefer making 0.01% progress with everything we do so long as we know progress is being made. Plus, if you're feeling like you're burning out, you can take a break anytime and know you've made progress, which isn't guaranteed under the Atma system. I am of the personal belief that the Nexus is the best designed relic phase: it lets you passively progress doing your normal thing, but still promotes you to do thing you normally wouldn't do otherwise but making specific things more efficient given the time investment; plus the bonus windows can suddenly make something no one would otherwise do the most efficient way to farm light for 2 hours.

Then there's the Anima version which makes it even better by just always giving you the chance to get the bonus light each clear (albeit at a very low rate) outside of the bonus light windows.

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Originally Posted by Andevom

As annoying as the Atma farm can be, I prefer it *much* more than farming for Nexus lights. Instead of doing FATEs, which give you other benefits aside from just the atma, you did old content that barely gave you anything over and over again.

Do people *really* think that's better than an RNG farm where you at least have a chance at quickly making a lot of progress?

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Yeah, but from what heard, they went way to far with nexus light when it released (nowadays it's a walk in the park). To me, the current state of Eureka relics is mostly in line with what I consider a good farm. Farm are long, but not that long : Amenos steps can be farmed in under 3 hours, both pagos and pyros are 6 to 8 hours, while hydatos is longer and would benefit from a small reduction of time.

And last but not least, if you only have 1 hour, you'll feel like you progressed toward your objective. Spending 5 hours of time and realising you made zero progress is just sad. In the end people will just go "why bother". As I said earlier, I'm someone who like farming. I did all the HW, SB and ShB relics (ARR is where I draw the line, I did 2, and kept wondering why I did a second while doing it). So if even someone like me finds the farm frustrating, I feel there is something wrong with the way it's designed.

(I also have strong doubts about the fact this can have the shelf life Eureka and bozja had : I fear once this patch is gone, that the people have upped their phantoms jobs, the one time step in there won't be enough to keep the players running that content. Eureka still lives because of the relics, bozja because it's a nice place to xp jobs between 71 and 82/83. Occult crescent has none of those. I enjoy myself for now, but I fear this is not the retention content the game needs. But that's another problem we'll discuss in a few months.)