This game is not designed for constant healing

Its a final fantasy game healers have always contributed damage, buffs and debuffs and heal only when needed. Not to mention ff14 is very dps centric in its encounter design. dps is literally mitigation against mechanics that wont come out if your gear or skill is sufficient to skip. Stormblood healing was peak. Scholar had DOT management, broil felt good, you got to choose between spending aetherflow on energy drain or heals (We do now but they literally deleted energy drain for a whole patch at the start of shadowbringers). The cure bots who only want to sit there topping life bars all day seriously need to try different games for that fantasy because all us stormblood and old school ff boomers dont want it. Should healers get more mechanics and interesting stuff to do in fights ? ABSOLUTELY! should that just be standing there spouting heals like crazy fudge no! HEalers should get creative party buffs, get rewarded for mitigating well like sage and dark knight with their shield pop procs or something to extend tank mit duration. idk but the lack of creativity from this forum lately to adress the issues is astounding. Really? we want to nerf tank healing into oblivion because the devs cant find something more interesting to do? Never ask to take fun stuff away from others when you can ask to get more fun toys for yourself. Making other roles feel worse is the most brain dead way to make healers feel better. bring back decision making like cleric stance, diurnal vs nocturnal sect, dps buttons that arent the same fuudging animation over and over. if i have to spam the glare key atleast make it rotate a few different animations like pictomancers filler gcds. I'm so tired of this toxic rhetoric that healers need to be the gods in full control of whether people live or die or everyone else is op. Also im not saying we need hard rotations for dps but come on atleast tank level would be nice. let me 123 not just 1111112 1111112. OR let me broil into 2 dots spread them and ruin 2 into energy drains again.

It's not designed with constant healing, but healer and tank kits are designed around constant healing which is the strangest thing to me.

the problem is not a constant need of healing but a better support kit like let me buff my team defense offense or something let me apply debuff to enemies to. Right now like our friend said the kit is made for constant healing but healing is mostly not needed so people want more DPS skill tho on sage would be good to mix both together. In reality is other then astro really no healer can really buff and mostly ninja can debuff to and only defense. chain being the only exception from sch but that's all.


Like if you don't want use to heal at least make us support the team and not just be a weak DPS that press on skills for a whole fight.

Even if fights had constant healing, the endgame kits aren't that decently designed anyways...
So many buttons exist for the sake of replacing a GCD heal every 30/45/60 seconds, I mean what's even the point...

I really feel like the shadowbringers approach to give more ogcd heals but no longer having dps tools that were disrupted by having to gcd heal made no sense. In normal content you don't need to use hardly need to press any of these ogcds outside ed, excog etc. Now when we aren't healing the game is boring. Not because we aren't healing but because or dps kit is trash compared to stormblood days.

people do not ask for a constant healing expérience.
If you go from spamming 2 skills on a boss to spamming 2 skill on the tanks, it the same result.
What would make sense is if healers have to take part of the dps experience, give them dps combos ?
Give them actual impact on the group efficiency with buff rotations and big effects for exemple.
Because right now it's mostly about spectating your team doing engaging stuff while spamming 2 buttons.

It's almost like people who play healer want to heal, who'd have thought? There are dps jobs for people who want to play dps, there are tank jobs for people who want to tank, why is it that for people who actually want to heal the only available options are tank jobs? Why is it right and proper that tanks have fun at the expense of healers but when healers complain about this fact it's "toxic rhetoric that healers need to be the gods in full control of whether people live or die", if as you claim "Making other roles feel worse is the most brain dead way to make healers feel better." Why is making healers feel worse a perfectly okay way to make tanks feel better?

I haven't seen anyone claiming, by the way, that healers should heal with every GCD. Only that we should heal by default and dps as a secondary function, almost like a reward for being good at our primary job not just being worse dps while the tanks do our job.

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Originally Posted by Reginald_Cain

HEalers should get creative party buffs, get rewarded for mitigating well like sage and dark knight with their shield pop procs or something to extend tank mit duration.

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Sage isn't getting rewarded for using mitigation, it's almost the opposit.
You get an addersting for using a GCD shield (Eukrasian diagnosis / prognosis).
With that addersting you can use toxicon, wich is okay for trash mobs or while moving.
But toxicon as the same potency as dosis on first target, less than 10% more than dyskardia on AOE.
Wich make using said shield then toxicon a loss of DPS, it's not a rewarding at all.
The most efficient way to go is to use an oGCD shield (no reward) and continue to spamm dosis lol.

A reward would have been toxicon to be an oGCD or have way more potency than dosis and dyskardia since it's based on a ressource you have to build.

While the main point of a healer is to heal, the way it's designed in FFXIV is so that if you are well geared and know your kit you can DPS as much as you like and heal as little or as required. If not, you'll definitely be spending WAY more time healing. The group doesn't need to be full HP all the time. Most healers also have an "oh crap" ability to get massive healing out in a short time (Assize, Lustrate, etc) or abilities like Lightspeed to make it quicker to heal/DPS.

SCH is basically a green DPS. The fairy does most, if not all, of your direct healing. You give out shields so you can DPS more. Your oGCDs give you instant or AoE heals so you can... you guessed it... DPS more.

WHM's kit is based off of using your lily stacks to build up to a burst DPS. Holy is an AoE stun so your tank can mitigate less and your group can DPS more.

SGE is a shield/DPS healer. You WANT your shield to pop so you can use your DPS to heal the tank.

AST doesn't really have much in the way of DPS options other than a few moves -- but, it's niche is buffing the DPS of other members to make up for it.

I feel like they are mostly balanced. But also, healers shouldn't need big numbers and trying to be outdoing DPS in terms of damage because it's not their role to deal big damage. It's just a nice bonus when they can.

Edit: I can't spell. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by branflakes1413

While the main point of a healer is to heal, the way it's designed in FFXIV is so that if you are well geared and know your kit you can DPS as much as you like and heal as little or as required. If not, you'll definitely be spending WAY more time healing. The group doesn't need to be full HP all the time. Most healers also have an "oh crap" ability to get massive healing out in a short time (Assize, Lustrate, etc) or abilities like Lightspeed to make it quicker to heal/DPS.

SCH is basically a green DPS. The fairy does most, if not all, of your direct healing. You give out shields so you can DPS more. Your oGCDs give you instant or AoE heals so you can... you guessed it... DPS more.

WHM's kit is based off of using your lily stacks to build up to a burst DPS. Holy is an AoE stun so your tank can mitigate less and your group can DPS more.

SGE is a shield/DPS healer. You WANT your shield to pop so you can use your DPS to heal the tank.

AST doesn't really have much in the way of DPS options other than a few moves -- but, it's niche is buffing the DPS of other members to make up for it.

I feel like they are mostly balanced. But also, healers shouldn't need big numbers and trying to be outdoing DPS in terms of damage because it's not their role to deal big damage. It's just a nice bonus when they can.

Edit: I can't spell. :rolleyes:

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The way it's designed in ff14 is nonsensical, if healers are designed to mostly do damage why don't they have more damage buttons rather then like 20 "emergency" buttons

The only shields scholar should be given out is pre pull or non GCD shields with how it's kit is designed, Holy doesn't make the group dps more? even if they weren't stunned tanks don't take enough damage on their own anymore when using mitigations to require any sort of healing a lot of the time even if they do all healers got ogcd tools so holy doesn't really change the fact that you'll be dpsing (or others) will be more in aoe because you should always be gcd dpsing (unless building up a lilly which you should do prepull on white mage in dungeons). Sage doesnt ever want to use gcd shields on the tank, if your using gcd shields on tank your losing dps, slide casting exists you also have a bunch of ogcd tools as sage for movement, your kit is bloated with free healing GCD shielding is a last resort only or you have to constantly move, or prepull. Ast has the same amount of dps options as any other healer they just do less damage and focus on damage.

Healers should always be doing damage because their kits have so much OGCD healing that you never have to consider using GCD's to actually heal outside of some rare instances and obviously early game.

Jokes on you, all four are green dpses today regardless how SE try to frame them with plethora of 'nothings' that they've spout at this point i.e. "We don't want healer to feel pressured to dps"(paraphrased).

SCH actively try to avoid shielding & overhealing with their Aetherflows if neither yields considerable value against upcoming mechanics.

WHM? Long gone the majority of their lilies management with the introduction of trashologification in 6.0 as they give more ways to capitalize oGCDs without loss. Holy? Stuns are mitigation yes, but if you have another AoE button with stronger PPS, you'd at least given some thought how you want to use Holy (maybe Holy > AoE 2 > AoE 2 > Holy > AoE 2 > Holy > AoE 2 & repeat). Sadly as of now, we don't have anything else, so Holy will be spammed regardless in wall pulls, for dps.

SGE tries to not GCD shield & for the most part, they don't even need to. They're currently the king of overhealing HPS given just about everything they do seem to spat out healings for whatever reason.

AST is just WHM but star VFX, more flexible kits, and brings dps buff. That's it. Still 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1, just like 3 others.

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Originally Posted by branflakes1413

SGE is a shield/DPS healer. You WANT your shield to pop so you can use your DPS to heal the tank.

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Dunno for the other healer jobs i already play one dead job, don't wanna go with others.
But for sage whats you say want is far from the in game reality.
Acually using your GCD shield makes you lose DPS on a damage focused game.
You have oGCD shield and mitigation tools that are better.
I like to shield people for the sake of shielding people and see their HP no going down.
But it's useless in normal content and non optimal in savage.

The whole SGE Kit is designed so you can keep spamming Dosis.

I definitly agree with what Rithy said.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Healers should always be doing damage because their kits have so much OGCD healing that you never have to consider using GCD's to actually heal outside of some rare instances and obviously early game.

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I am playing what is supposed to be on paper the DPS Healer, in reality it's the healer that deal the less damage.
Because SQE decided healers should deal damage but gave them a poor DPS kit based on 2-3 buttons.
Meanwhile they don't want us to sit there and spamm heal but give us 20 heal buttons that are often useless.

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Originally Posted by branflakes1413

SCH is basically a green DPS. The fairy does most, if not all, of your direct healing. You give out shields so you can DPS more. Your oGCDs give you instant or AoE heals so you can... you guessed it... DPS more.

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You may want to check the potencies, in particular on fairy heal. You're not wrong in that you never want to actually shield or heal as a Scholar, but the fairy is good for the oGCDs you need it summoned for.

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Originally Posted by branflakes1413

WHM's kit is based off of using your lily stacks to build up to a burst DPS. Holy is an AoE stun so your tank can mitigate less and your group can DPS more.

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You may want to check those lily potencies.

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Originally Posted by branflakes1413

SGE is a shield/DPS healer. You WANT your shield to pop so you can use your DPS to heal the tank.

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You may, well, want to check thos potencies. >.>

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Originally Posted by Qyoon

I am playing what is supposed to be on paper the DPS Healer, in reality it's the healer that deal the less damage.
Because SQE decided healers should deal damage but gave them a poor DPS kit based on 2-3 buttons.
Meanwhile they don't want us to sit there and spamm heal but give us 20 heal buttons that are often useless.

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Exactly healing on healers by fight/encounter design they are designed to deal DPS all the time, but they have the kits of healers who should be healing intensely, to me that makes no sense and is very counterproductive. I just don't have a clue why SE designed them like this.

I think we need a revision on healer kits/gameplay, as the current state of them isn't really "fun" for anyone both people who want a more dps styled healer or a healing styled healer lose out with this current design because it's kit is so boring but you don't really heal a lot on healers outside ogcds.

What I think would make healers fun, is if you upped the healing and gave them some more damage buttons such as Procs, high mp costing management spells (such as a broil that deals more damage but spamming it will mean you run out mp), different DOT timers having more then one even, having more abilities such as phlegma.

Theirs so much you can do with healer kits, but I hope most people can agree no one wins with the current design of healers.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Exactly healing on healers by fight/encounter design they are designed to deal DPS all the time, but they have the kits of healers who should be healing intensely, to me that makes no sense and is very counterproductive. I just don't have a clue why SE designed them like this.

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It's also weird because the DPS and the tanks are also designed as if incoming damage to the group (and the tanks in particular) were a) constant and b) much much much higher. The tank self-sustain makes 0 sense for the current level of damage taken, neither does the fact that group healing/mitigation tools exist on DPS classes, nevermind in such numbers.

If the group were losing around 10% health every GCD on top of all other incoming current damage and the tanks lost 40%-50% health on unmitigated autoattacks (considering how rarely modern bosses even get to AA) then this would all make a lot more sense. That's the level of incoming damage the kits of all classes seem to be designed for. So weird.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

It's also weird because the DPS and the tanks are also designed as if incoming damage to the group (and the tanks in particular) were a) constant and b) much much much higher. The tank self-sustain makes 0 sense for the current level of damage taken, neither does the fact that group healing/mitigation tools exist on DPS classes, nevermind in such numbers.

If the group were losing around 10% health every GCD on top of all other incoming current damage and the tanks lost 40%-50% health on unmitigated autoattacks (considering how rarely modern bosses even get to AA) then this would all make a lot more sense. That's the level of incoming damage the kits of all classes seem to be designed for. So weird.

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Yeah Tanks do have kits that are also designed for high damage incoming, my main issue is more that we have so many defensives that do the same thing of mitigating damage (sometimes with a self heal or all time if your a warrior), Short mitigations already serve as your selfish reaction button it's so weird we also got like serval other mitigation abilities that feel kind of just there to exist...? it would make sense if you actually were meant to use them often because of high damage, but even if you don't mitigate as a tank doing the bare minimum of pressing a cooldown sometimes at least in single target it should be enough to sustain you which is absurd.

I believe in heavy outgoing damage, spikes of damage on a target aka a non tank, buster (this makes using stuff like intervention, cover, TBN, healer mits more useful), heavy AOE's with dot's, pulls to do more damage and allow us to pull more as tanks, instances like that would actually justify the current kits.

It's a shame because i want my cooldowns to feel impactful they just don't most of the time.

The way the game works right now is almost like the game was not designed to have healers at all.
I mean sure, theres damage being done, but nothing that can't be managed by adding heal to some abilities.
The ways it's designed could clearly quickly be tweaked so healers can be removed from the game.
After a few tweak in savage content players would have to self sustain themselve and don't crap mecanics.
Theres already DPS that can Rez dead members and offers engaging gameplaY.

If healers were turned into dps with some abilities having passive heals.
They would maybe have a better fit into the actual game design.
Just dps that deals a bit less damage but offer some passive healing.
Poeple would take them or not depending on their skill level.

Not saying thats what i want but thats what would make sense based on how FF XIV is made.
In short, when i think about it, i don't feel like healers have their place in FF XIV right now.