I'll get straight to the point, here are my thoughts:
1. Remove Damage from all gap closers and add Stun instead.
- Remove the damage and add Stun effect to (PLD: Intervene) & (WAR: Onslaught).
- Re-Add (DRK: Plunge) & (GNB: Rough Divide), remove the damage and add Stun as well (for visual purposes, the animation can be changed to make the Wol use the back of the blade instead of the edge).
2. Add Blind & Paralysis to AOE abilities.
- for (PLD: Circle of Scorn) & (DRK: Salted Earth) : Add Blind Effect on targets.
- for (WAR: Orogeny) & (GNB: Bow Shock): Add Paralysis Effect on Targets.
3. Rework Short Mets & Restoration.
> For All Tanks: shorten the CD of Rampart to 60 Sec.
> For WAR:
- change (Storm's Path)'s Healing from a Flat Heal to a HoT.
- Remove the Healing part from (Bloodwhetting) and add it to (Thrill of Battle).
- buff the Defensives of (Bloodwhetting) and add a new effect: increase maximum HP by 10%.
> For PLD:
- Add a Flat Heal effect to (Royal Authority).
- Remove the Passive Healing from offensive Spells, but keep it for Spells buffed by (Divine Might).
- Remove the Healing part from (Holy Sheltron) and add it to (Bulwark).
- buff the Defensives of (Holy Sheltron).
> For DRK:
- Rework the Healing of (Soul Eater), instead of a Flat Heal, it grants the WoL with an effect that converts a portion of Damage to HP with every attack.
- buff the Defensives of (TBN).
> For GNB:
- Remove the Healing part from (Heart of Corundum) and add it to (Camouflage).
- buff the Defensives of (Heart of Corundum).
let me know what you think?
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03-29-2025, 05:13 AMThorinGAdd New CC for all Tanks + Rework short Mets and Passive restoration
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03-29-2025, 06:46 AMVoryn
A lot of things here are hard to understand when the there’s not much detail and no numbers. What does “buff the defensives” entail for all the short mits, and what’s the intended result of moving the healing around?
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03-29-2025, 08:13 AMThorinG
I think that the healing on some of these short mits is too strong, so my suggestion is to move the healing part to the tanks' specific 90 Sec mit, in return the short mits defensive capabilities are buffed ( damage reduction, shield,..etc.).
Additionally, granting more CCs ( stun, blind, paralysis) will help with managing bigger pulls without over reliance on self sustain. -
03-29-2025, 08:51 AMRithy255
Agree and disagree.
Removing damage from gap closers gonna be No
PLD - I'd keep the regen effect I'm not a fan of buffing the mitigation if anything I'd nerf it to a flat 20% on a 8s duration, I don't really think royal authority needs sustain, I'm happy to see the magic attacks not self heal because it's way too much and passive.
Gnb - HOC, keep the excog but half it's potency, revert aurora regen to 200 potency
Warrior - I don't like it because you've just moved the self healing to other aspects warrior needs major reductions, I feel like you've just buffed warrior... maybe nerfed in dungeons i guess
Drk - why? it's fine as it is right now.
I feel like you made every other job more of a paladin then the paladin with these changes, I mean warrior is designed to already be more of a Paladin though I agree sustain needs to go down a lot I don't really agree with how you've implemented it. -
03-30-2025, 09:03 PMNero-Voidstails
well there is a other problem too is if you only take the tank base kits they all are the same even with mitigation what differ really is the DPS and how powerful the healing is. Passively I think all tanks have problem they don't feel unique on the base core. I see a warrior as a powerful tanks all skill show power and strength yet it's meh like the other I don't say bring warrior to a DPS LV but like make warrior 10% stronger with more HP like 20% but make it's defence lower from like 10% or around that.
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04-02-2025, 12:07 PMPyurBlue
On CC, we have Low Blow for stun. Status baked into damage combos and gap-closers gives less control and kind of negates the entire thing. Holy stun is great, but because Holy is WHM's main AoE DPS, the stun is just there. If you want to use the stun strategically you don't have many options other than standing around and doing nothing until the moment when you want to use it, and even more so if enemies gain resistance to effects. If instead we had dedicated CC abilities, that frees them up for interesting use.
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06-09-2025, 02:35 PMYovelaLindswoodHoly stun is garbage because because it blows through enemy stun resist so if an enemy does an aoe later in the pull I cant target stun it so the melees can keep uptime. Targeted cc is just kinda better imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by PyurBlue
I really like the idea of cc being attached to a gap closer too. You could even make it more class specific. Like drk is an antimage tank so giving it an interrupt on its gap closer would be thematically cool. -
06-09-2025, 03:39 PMShurrikhan
Countersuggestions:
- Just give Low Blow DR immunity. Reduce cooldown to 20s.
- Have Interject give an actual Silence and Pacify, both without DR. If silenced or pacified during a spell or casted weaponskill, enemies will remain unable to attack at all for the full remaining cast-time. Reduce cooldown to 20s.
- Remove Tank Mastery and reduce the Defense Bonus of Fending gear to just ~50% more than Striking (Maiming 25% more, Casting/Healing 25% less). Nerf only what tankbusters would otherwise one-shot under the same degree of active mitigation.
- Since Tank Mastery previously bundled a hidden 20% tank damage reduction and has been removed, which would otherwise overbuff tanks as the +25% damage (from removing a 20% reduction) matters a lot more than taking 25% more damage, tank potencies have been nerfed by ~13.6% across the board. This is still a 10% increase to tank damage.
- Healer damage increased by ~15%, ideally through ~1 new offensive actions and at least 1 new offensive ability interaction each.
- Just give Low Blow DR immunity. Reduce cooldown to 20s.
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06-10-2025, 03:40 PMCarighan
I mean there's some cool ideas in there, though I'd argue if you want to buff the short defenses, go all out on per-class-specific effects, and rework the main rotations to be based around that, too. Differentiation is the key here, not homogenization.
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06-13-2025, 09:56 AMAlice_RiversYeah, I would love to see Holy's stun moved to it's own button, give me an actual tactical aoe stun.Quote:
Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood
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06-13-2025, 10:10 PMPyurBlueThat's what I'm saying. The stun is very powerful, but because it's attached to damage it gets used immediately instead of strategically. If stun and damage were separated you could use stun in more interesting ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood
Glare IV is the best thing WHM has ever recieved. I don't know if it was on purpose or accidental, but it allows WHM to control stun using while using AoE since you can hold Holy. If only it wasn't locked away for 2 minutes at a time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers
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06-21-2025, 03:31 AMDerio
Adding a stun to a gap closer is very bad. Especially if they continue to do raids like M6s with the add phases.
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07-02-2025, 07:59 PMYovelaLindswoodOMG yes. Give whm their own tactical stun. Give them some class identity please. XD Also SE while you're at it treat healers like the recomended cd reduction of rampart. Debloat the healers heal toolkits with smaller lower cd toolkits and remove the redundant actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers
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07-02-2025, 08:05 PMCarighanEh, you realize you're commenting on something about how WHM is unique compared to the other healers, and that person wants that uniqueness reduced. Yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by YovelaLindswood
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07-03-2025, 02:38 AMMercury_Grey
You are basically gutting GNB emergency heal with heart to put it on a longer CD. DRK i only agree with TBN the othsr isnt needed when living dead is a strong heal once proc. For PLD you must not notice how its set like that to be more defensive. WAR changrs you suggsst seems like you dont know how strong its aoe healing is compares to single target. Circle and salted donr need blinds. Circle of scorn is the only dot PLD has after 6.3 if anything salted coukd make next TBN heal over time of a potency of lets say 250 every 3 seconds.
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07-03-2025, 10:59 AMAlice_RiversHow does moving WHM's 8y GCD stun from Holy into it's own button (and maybe making it an oGCD in the same vein as ACN's Energy Drain) exclusive to WHM make WHM less unique?Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
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07-03-2025, 04:04 PMCarighanEh... I'm unsure how to reply to this, I'll admit. This is like if someone asked me "How is sunlight bright?" or "Why is water wet?". I bet it can be answered, but I struggle to think how to do it, personally. You're essentially asking "Why would making something generic instead of unique make it less unique?", you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers
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07-03-2025, 09:32 PMAlice_Rivers
The way I see it it doesn't make WHM any more or less distinct, if anything, in my mind it improves WHM by giving you the choice of when to stun and it makes tanks happier because we'd not be messing up their mit plans. I'm not taking anything away from WHM, not making a new role skill, I'm just making a false utility an actual utility. I can only see that as a good thing.
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07-09-2025, 01:16 PMYovelaLindswoodProblem is the way it is unique is actively counter to game design. Its current design actively griefs all tanks. If its an ogcd you could actively use your stun for either an emergency mit if your tanks low or if multiple enemies are doing aoes you can interrupt them easily. It would keep its identity while giving you more agency as a player. As it currently exists its just nothing but annoying for all tanks that actively use stun for melee uptime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
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07-10-2025, 03:38 AMShurrikhanI mean, it'd be making its unique capacity more accessible. That's, at least indirectly, likely to see it do more with its more uniqueness. We'd need only say its having its stun tied to a GCD was unique if others had stuns by other means; as is, though, its having a stun at all (now that AST lost its stun), is the unique feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
I'm on the fence myself, tbh, as I'd rather just see 'fixes' to Low Blow (and partly to Interject) itself and don't want to abandon the frequency of use available, but I'd at least say then that WHM ought to have an alternate AoE (even if that were, say, Dia detonating part of its duration each time it's Glared) for a similar reason: WHM's stun would be more interesting if it could be more precisely leveraged. -
07-10-2025, 08:13 AMBrandr
[QUOTE=ThorinG;6683509]
3. Rework Short Mets & Restoration.
> For PLD:/QUOTE]
NO! Nops. Never. Nuh-huh. Não. Ñ. Necas.
Leave my beloved PLD alone! -
07-10-2025, 08:14 AMBrandrNO! Nops. Never. Nuh-huh. Não. Ñ. Necas.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorinG
Leave my beloved PLD alone! -
09-05-2025, 05:18 AMMercury_GreyMake cover cost 0 gauge and aff 5 more seconds on its CD. Some PLD mains i talked to would take that extra 5 seconds to wiat on it and have it cost 0 gaugeQuote:
Originally Posted by Brandr
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09-06-2025, 02:07 PMDRKoftheAzure
Personally, I would buff all non-short damage mitigation cooldowns with double duration, halved recast timers, and up 3 charges. Yes this includes tank invulns, and yes I am aware that the devs would need to balance bosses around potentially 4 tank invunls every 5 minutes or so, but that could easily be balanced around 1 or 2 tank invulns ever 2 minutes.
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09-06-2025, 05:59 PMMikey_RThat would make Rampart an almost 100% uptime defensive (5 seconds of downtime every 45 seconds). If you were to rebalance boss damage, you would necessarily have to account for this, which is increasing damage by ~20% to counter it, which then just makes Rampart an action you have to press every 40 seconds with no thought. This is before we start looking at the other defensives and how they will be affected.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
If you want to make defensives more engaging, this is not the way to do it. -
09-07-2025, 12:55 AMGrimforthExcept that a lot of Tanks today can handle big pulls without the help of CC. It's called learning how to rotate defensives. I'm sorry but if you're asking for a bunch of CC because you're struggling with tanking or you're taking way too much damage, that's a straight-up skill issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThorinG
And I'm telling you this right now as a GBN main, if the devs were to change our defensives to what you suggested, then I will straight up quit tanking. Your idea of fixing a class it's straight up gutting it. -
09-07-2025, 01:13 AMCarighanBut.. why?Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
At that point DR is essentially passive, so you could just give tanks a trait that they take 20% or so less damage on top of what exists, and produce the same effect? -
09-07-2025, 02:28 PMDRKoftheAzureIt's only 100% uptime if the tank is constantly taking heavy damage from JUST auto-attacks... also we already have a trait that is a 20% damage reduction passive that isn't even noticeable most of the time...Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
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09-07-2025, 04:48 PMReimmi
I agree with removing damage from gap closers
it's bad game design
I think there should be more CC in the game but only if dungeons actually require the use of it
Make mobs have dangerous casts that need to be stunned/interrupted and stuff -
09-08-2025, 02:29 AMMikey_RNoticeable against what? Remembering that incoming damage to the tank is going to be scaled based on the fact that the tanks have that 20% passive mitigation, you cannot just compare the damage a tank takes to itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
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09-08-2025, 04:31 PMDRKoftheAzureI agree that should also be more CC on tanks... BUT White Mage just breaks dungeons with its AoE stun so good luck adding more CC to tanks when White Mage has the best CC in the game...Quote:
Originally Posted by Reimmi
As for damaging gap closers... Just make them the combo finisher of a ranged target AoE combo... problem solved... -
09-08-2025, 06:08 PMCarighanEasily solved since we have CC immunity timers already, conceptually. Stun just needs to be a more aggressive one (either 100% -> 50% -> immune, or even better, split CCs into full and partial, full CCs like Stun go 100% -> immune for 15s while partial ones like root go 100% -> 50% -> 25% -> immune). That way White Mage gets to keep their "big thing" but also we can have meaningful CC on other classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRKoftheAzure
On that note, the game needs a way to see CC immunity/reductions. I would propose:
* New debuff icon (not buff!), same basic shape/icon as the actual CC.
* Blue or green background instead of red.
* Duration is always 15s from last CC expiring.
* For CC where the reduction increases in intensity, it has 1-3 stacks. For immediately-immune CCs like my stun idea above, it just has a single stack, no number at all.
* Basically you can never have the red and the blue icon at the same time, and it keeps the location in the debuff row. On the red icon (the actual CC) dropping, it gets replaced with the corresponding blue icon, and if you re-apply the CC, it replaces the blue icon again before on dropping that one comes back with another stack. -
09-08-2025, 09:59 PMAlice_RiversFar better just to decouple WHM's stun from it's aoe damage. Give WHMs the choice of when to stun instead of forcing stun immunity just to do dps because that's not fair for anyone involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
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09-08-2025, 10:15 PMCarighanThis would change nothing for the issue at hand. WHM stun would still be superior and hence still be used in dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers
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09-08-2025, 11:17 PMAlice_Rivers
That's not the problem though, the problem is that currently WHMs face a choice of: Force stun immunity or don't do aoe dps, decoupling these things fixes said problem so WHMs and tanks alike can stun things in a productive manner.
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09-09-2025, 05:17 AMShurrikhan???Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
The question was in whether to allow the stun to be turned off, allowing at least the final DR's worth to be saved for when it'll actually matter (e.g., for maximizing effective uptime / safety). Else, you'd be sabotaging yourself to bring a WHM to anything in which trash bears more threat than mere continuous damage (e.g., if dungeons ever actually offered challenge and interest through their mobs beyond turning each into CC-immune mini-bosses).
All that being said... I still think Intervene should silence and pacify and both it / Head Graze and Low Blow / Leg Sweep should always at least interrupt physical casts (which should in turn be more frequent and more frequently worth shutting down).
It doesn't need to degrade nearly that quickly. The only mitigation stuns provide are through the delays to auto-attacks or special attacks. Since stuns will quickly no longer last long enough to prevent a readied auto-attack from going off, they quickly lose mitigation value outside of interrupting casted and CD-gated special attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
WHM doesn't provide 10s of 100% mitigation via Holy. At best, it its full spam towards DR towards about as much as 10-15s of a 20% slow, depending on how perfectly spaced its stuns are.
In the larger scheme of things, that stun-spam is significant, yes, but far from broken.
Even under the existing system, one could just use a steel-bordered copy of the stun/bind/silence/etc. icon as a (de)buff on the enemy and a stack counter for 1 through 5, as 4 is the greatest number of reductions any effect can take before immunity. (It's fundamentally 50% -> 25% -> 12.5% -> 6.25% -> 0%), with the product rounded down above 1s and doing nothing if reduced to less than a half-second -- though with some weird XIV shenanigans on Holy specifically.)Quote:
On that note, the game needs a way to see CC immunity/reductions. I would propose:
* New debuff icon (not buff!), same basic shape/icon as the actual CC.
* Blue or green background instead of red.
* Duration is always 15s from last CC expiring.
* For CC where the reduction increases in intensity, it has 1-3 stacks. For immediately-immune CCs like my stun idea above, it just has a single stack, no number at all.
* Basically you can never have the red and the blue icon at the same time, and it keeps the location in the debuff row. On the red icon (the actual CC) dropping, it gets replaced with the corresponding blue icon, and if you re-apply the CC, it replaces the blue icon again before on dropping that one comes back with another stack.