Devs why the PvP changes, again? Can we get a reply?

Can someone from the developer side please tell us what is the driving force behind these changes?
This isn't performative, I'm not trying to find something to attack. I want to understand so I know what to expect moving forward, because community feedback holds no weight. Why the changes?

Looking at the live letter:
How many years has it been for Borderlands? I scroll through an old reddit thread (2 years ago) and the majority of the comments are just bashing it. Even then, when has anyone here discussed it recently? "The long awaited-" by who?

People adapt, but are still annoyed over animation snapshot changes, job changes, pre-mades obliterating people, not to mention how rewards are handled, the rewards themselves being dated, latency still not being fixed because every animation is an astral era longer now.

Players don't get why you do this, and no one asked for this. But here you come in 7.2 with:
"The following adjustments have been made to battle high rating gained upon KOing or assisting: KO, 10->8, Assist, 2->4"
- Damage padders are buffed
- Premades are super buffed
- Solo queuers are punished, less solo carry potential

I'm writing about frontlines mainly, but if you're reading please reply with your experience, because I know there is a lot more to it.

So what is driving the changes, and why ask for community feedback if it isn't relevant. Feels a little silly.


https://imgur.com/a/0JYXtsY

I'll reserve my final judgement overall until I see the individual job adjustments and role actions along with the Battle High for PVE on Secure (Interceptor Drones if you missed it).

Just a guess, but perhaps the goal is encouraging faster games like many of the Crystalline Conflict changes have been encouraging faster games and less ability to stall on the point.

I do think it's weird to make these changes that without any additional context seemingly encourage more steamrolling in the mode and offering less recovery for players on the losing/inferior teams.

Generally I feel like this would be a negative experience for 2/3s of players in the game, but hard to say without Square providing any additional reasoning/changes at this time.

I'm not really looking forward to reinforcing a possible AST/SCH/Ranged stack meta, but I survived the era of WHM-lines so we'll see...

Time will tell but I didn't think the changes to BH will impact how premades dominate the game. They generated high BH super early, they'll still generate it super early, nbd. If anything, when no team is a premade, the changes will bump solo players BH at double the speed it was before, so the floor will probably rise.

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Originally Posted by Exmo

Time will tell but I didn't think the changes to BH will impact how premades dominate the game. They generated high BH super early, they'll still generate it super early, nbd. If anything, when no team is a premade, the changes will bump solo players BH at double the speed it was before, so the floor will probably rise.

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The issue there is that BH grows really slowly on a poor team. Like playing AST, I pretty much know if we've got a chance after the first engagement. I'll splash my AoEs on a blob, if nobody dies, the team is crap and we'll lose.

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Originally Posted by Pidgeon

I'll reserve my final judgement overall until I see the individual job adjustments and role actions along with the Battle High for PVE on Secure (Interceptor Drones if you missed it).

Just a guess, but perhaps the goal is encouraging faster games like many of the Crystalline Conflict changes have been encouraging faster games and less ability to stall on the point.

I do think it's weird to make these changes that without any additional context seemingly encourage more steamrolling in the mode and offering less recovery for players on the losing/inferior teams.

Generally I feel like this would be a negative experience for 2/3s of players in the game, but hard to say without Square providing any additional reasoning/changes at this time.

I'm not really looking forward to reinforcing a possible AST/SCH/Ranged stack meta, but I survived the era of WHM-lines so we'll see...

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There's really not much of a stall meta in FL (on Aether). Like you'll occasionally see an invuln PLD sitting on a node, but their ability to not die is much more limited in FL than CC. Whether the devs know that is another question.

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Originally Posted by LeoBertolaso

Can someone from the developer side please tell us what is the driving force behind these changes?
This isn't performative, I'm not trying to find something to attack. I want to understand so I know what to expect moving forward, because community feedback holds no weight. Why the changes?

Looking at the live letter:
How many years has it been for Borderlands? I scroll through an old reddit thread (2 years ago) and the majority of the comments are just bashing it. Even then, when has anyone here discussed it recently? "The long awaited-" by who?

People adapt, but are still annoyed over animation snapshot changes, job changes, pre-mades obliterating people, not to mention how rewards are handled, the rewards themselves being dated, latency still not being fixed because every animation is an astral era longer now.

Players don't get why you do this, and no one asked for this. But here you come in 7.2 with:
"The following adjustments have been made to battle high rating gained upon KOing or assisting: KO, 10->8, Assist, 2->4"
- Damage padders are buffed
- Premades are super buffed
- Solo queuers are punished, less solo carry potential

I'm writing about frontlines mainly, but if you're reading please reply with your experience, because I know there is a lot more to it.

So what is driving the changes, and why ask for community feedback if it isn't relevant. Feels a little silly.


https://imgur.com/a/0JYXtsY

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I share your frustration. I'd bet what is going to happen (if there was a response to your OP which there won't be) is "details are given in the complete patch notes." Which based on the 7.1 full notes means they will make very little sense and, as you note, have absolutely nothing to do with requests from players made on this forum.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

There's really not much of a stall meta in FL (on Aether). Like you'll occasionally see an invuln PLD sitting on a node, but their ability to not die is much more limited in FL than CC. Whether the devs know that is another question.

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I'm more thinking that games will be faster as weaker teams are now punished much quicker when giving teams an early battle high advantage/losing the first few engagements.

Whether this is what Square intended or if I'm reading into it too much I'm not sure, but I'm rather hoping they provide an explanation with the 7.2 notes proper.

I don't know if this will make it easier to follow for those reading this later, but if a player purely assisted and had 0 KOs.



Pre 7.2

BH 1 (10 Assists ) --> BH 5 ( 50 Assists)

Post 7.2

BH 1 ( 5 Assists ) --> BH 5 ( 25 Assists )



These are just some example numbers of Battle High distributed from 1 kill if we also assume there were 3-5 assisting players.

Pre 7.2

1 Kill = 16-20 Battle High

Post 7.2

1 Kill = 20-28 Battle High

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Originally Posted by Pidgeon

I'm more thinking that games will be faster as weaker teams are now punished much quicker when giving teams an early battle high advantage/losing the first few engagements.

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Okay, yes I agree with you. In other words games will be even-more lopsided, which in general I think is a bad idea. The potential to get a lot of BH (and BH edge) in the first engagement is greatly increased and that just speeds the BH snowballing effect.

It's quite possible SE did this to speed up matches. If so, it's characteristic of their ass-backwards approach. The direct lever to adjust match duration is the number of points required for victory.

For once the changes in this patch are pretty tame. They ended up to be much worse in 7.1, and when they progressively added these obnoxious dmg reduction modifiers in frontlines.

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Originally Posted by Pidgeon

I'm more thinking that games will be faster as weaker teams are now punished much quicker when giving teams an early battle high advantage/losing the first few engagements.

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Seems good, the current frontline meta is very bland and slow, way too much tankiness. And thanks to it being tri faction, if one team snowballs early with the first engagements, there are 2 more that will surely gang up on it. (Of course we're not talking about the random nature of matchmaking and having a lost cause team, because that's a thing of the ages anyway.)

Overall it might be a decent compromise between the explosiveness of 6.1, and then after they've progressively added all this damage reduction, which has made frontline supremely boring for most pvp enjoyers (and good for the rouletters I guess).

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Originally Posted by Pidgeon

I'm more thinking that games will be faster as weaker teams are now punished much quicker when giving teams an early battle high advantage/losing the first few engagements.

Whether this is what Square intended or if I'm reading into it too much I'm not sure, but I'm rather hoping they provide an explanation with the 7.2 notes proper.

I don't know if this will make it easier to follow for those reading this later, but if a player purely assisted and had 0 KOs.



Pre 7.2

BH 1 (10 Assists ) --> BH 5 ( 50 Assists)

Post 7.2

BH 1 ( 5 Assists ) --> BH 5 ( 25 Assists )



These are just some example numbers of Battle High distributed from 1 kill if we also assume there were 3-5 assisting players.

Pre 7.2

1 Kill = 16-20 Battle High

Post 7.2

1 Kill = 20-28 Battle High

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I don't mind faster roulette bonus

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Originally Posted by Eastwall

I don't mind faster roulette bonus

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Aha! We've found another group pleased with the changes. The rouletters!!!

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Aha! We've found another group pleased with the changes. The rouletters!!!

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Most the changes seem to benefit me if you want to throw that in lol.

Just adding additional back in means at least half the xiv population won’t even know they exist >.>

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Okay, yes I agree with you. In other words games will be even-more lopsided, which in general I think is a bad idea. The potential to get a lot of BH (and BH edge) in the first engagement is greatly increased and that just speeds the BH snowballing effect.

It's quite possible SE did this to speed up matches. If so, it's characteristic of their ass-backwards approach. The direct lever to adjust match duration is the number of points required for victory.

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That's a good point. You definitely know your team sucks when even if you're spreading damage everywhere, bursting or CCing at the proper targets, nothing just dies and you end up the game with a silver or green BH, so while it will definitely help increase whatever crumbs you get in those cases (by doubling it), it's of course going to net way bigger increases for teams that actually kill targets (multiplicative turning 20 into 40 is better than turning 4 into 8).
But I still hate the fact that the system rewards kills more than assists, because this is a team game, and securing kills is completely random unless you have strong one shot KOs like Seiton, etc.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Most the changes seem to benefit me if you want to throw that in lol.

Just adding additional back in means at least half the xiv population won’t even know they exist >.>

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Yeah that did occur to me, honey, and despite unmuting you, I doubt I'll enjoy playing on your team.

That said, I do genuinely respect the fact your prime directive is to win the match, rather than these awful padders who just want the pffft-pffft-pffft of the BH meter.

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Originally Posted by Valence

That's a good point. You definitely know your team sucks when even if you're spreading damage everywhere, bursting or CCing at the proper targets, nothing just dies and you end up the game with a silver or green BH, so while it will definitely help increase whatever crumbs you get in those cases (by doubling it), it's of course going to net way bigger increases for teams that actually kill targets (multiplicative turning 20 into 40 is better than turning 4 into 8).
But I still hate the fact that the system rewards kills more than assists, because this is a team game, and securing kills is completely random unless you have strong one shot KOs like Seiton, etc.

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One option would be to only give a K if you do >50% damage on an enemy. Everything else would be an assist.

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

Aha! We've found another group pleased with the changes. The rouletters!!!

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I didn't expect anything else. On the other Hand, the Rouletters are most likely the ones keeping "PvP" "alive" at the moment.
"PvP" in Final Fantasy is no longer designed for actual PvPers.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Most the changes seem to benefit me if you want to throw that in lol.

Just adding additional back in means at least half the xiv population won’t even know they exist >.>

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Right, besides the Secure sentries giving battle high, everything they're adding seems to reward people who want to fight other players and really dig their teeth into the game. I'm all for it.
I know Revival's hosting a sync on the first day it's out. Should be a good time to test and talk about strats.

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Originally Posted by gidsonBrand

Right, besides the Secure sentries giving battle high, everything they're adding seems to reward people who want to fight other players and really dig their teeth into the game. I'm all for it.
I know Revival's hosting a sync on the first day it's out. Should be a good time to test and talk about strats.

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We’ll have to set general strats early and start expectations asap so we don’t end up just going back and fourth pointlessly for 20min

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

We’ll have to set general strats early and start expectations asap so we don’t end up just going back and fourth pointlessly for 20min

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Do let us know when they appear in your guide.