FRU has been cleared without Tanks!

Seen on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._been_cleared/

Before the Healer Strike/Tank Strike crowd run that joke into the ground, the execution required to make this work was outstanding. Congratulations to the team that pulled it off!

This game has tanks? I thought every job was a dps. Could've fooled me

Can't say I'm surprised. The game is nothing but dance dance revolution with button bloat, currently. Execute mechanics perfectly and you can bypass the entire concept of class identity.

Meanwhile, Blue Mage still can't go into Ultimate because it would "take away from the prestige of getting a clear"....

Can't wait for the no DPS clear

Now S-E will move themselves to fix the fight.

For them, a healerless run is acceptable. A tankless is not.

Edit: Also, if this fight could be done without tank or healer, that sounds like this fight is kinda easy for a ultimate.

ded gam, updoots to the left, commence apologizing for the smol indie company devs below, snif

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Originally Posted by Luijao

Can't wait for the no DPS clear

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Personally I'm waiting for the no player clear.

Welp. Get ready for SE to make it so you need Tanks. The last time we had a No-Tank Clear was ALL the way back in Ramuh where you could have Titan Egi tank him. They shot that in a week. Watch them do it right on 7.2 patch.

#TankStrike

Thank god I saved a seat next to me for the Picto mains. Welcome to the easy life guys :p

It's less mechanics moreso the things they did to deal with tankbusters. I think this isn't class design but moreso the fight itself being a complete joke (i.e. p1 tankbusters just not going off if you wall it..)

i have no clue about thst fight, but sounds as if tank busters are the only reason tanks are 'needed'.
they really need to increase the frequency we get dmg... not just in fru

This is obviously a very skilled group that can pull this off, so 99% of players will never be able to do this. But Ultimates shouldn't be designed in such a way that it's even possible to not use a certain role.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

Before the Healer Strike/Tank Strike crowd run that joke into the ground

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That Reddit thread's way ahead of you.

Good thing tanks still get to have some fun in casual content and weren't told to go play ultimates if they wanted engaging gameplay.

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Originally Posted by OliverQ

This is obviously a very skilled group that can pull this off, so 99% of players will never be able to do this. But Ultimates shouldn't be designed in such a way that it's even possible to not use a certain role.

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The entire concept of the battle system of this game can be summarised as a “spreadsheet fights” where everything happens when it has to.
Time, practice and patience are required in order to complete those types of content and not all players have them.
“Being able” or “willing to do”? That is the question.

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Originally Posted by Jaltaer

Meanwhile, Blue Mage still can't go into Ultimate because it would "take away from the prestige of getting a clear"....

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Meanwhile they don't add Trust for Ultimate, Savage or generally all content which would easily be possible given it's nature or else the clear rate would be 100%. So, in full Yoshi P style to keep up the FFXIV endgame charade and artificial difficulty whenever and wherever possible you need to get 7 others by using a 3rd party site, align everyone's schedule, actually get along with them, they need to get along with you and each other, multiply the memorization process and chance for slip ups x8 and turn something what would take a solo player 1-2 hours to clear into a dozen hours ordeal.

But they don't even get the not-so-subtle hints as to why the endgame participation is somewhere at or below 10% and 2/3 Ultimate clears are bought when the boosting sites have sales.

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Originally Posted by Jokerz_93

The entire concept of the battle system of this game can be summarised as a “spreadsheet fights” where everything happens when it has to.
Time, practice and patience are required in order to complete those types of content and not all players have them.
“Being able” or “willing to do”? That is the question.

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Agreed.

There are also players who do possess such attributes who simply find spreadsheet fights dull.

Now people can stop crying that "tank op" and realise it's a major issue with encounter design and how little of importance both support roles have in content. I find this funny honestly, I said I wasn't bothered if the reverse can happen with healers/dps being able to clear without tank, I'm not really bothered but I feel like it's proof that it's more then just "tanks op and healers weak useless" line of argument that I've had to constantly see on social platforms + the forums, is just incorrect it's actually a larger issue that wouldn't be fixed by "nerf tank"

This is not to say that tanks aren't strong and could use adjustments, I think other then giving them actual fun rotations they should be given less self survivability/massive mitigations for exchange of more party importance and "protecting" abilities.

I just really hope this shows that we shouldn't really be looking at this as a issue with one role impacting another and more or less the fact that encounter design needs a actual overhaul to have these roles balanced and needed.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Meanwhile they don't add Trust for Ultimate, Savage or generally all content which would easily be possible given it's nature or else the clear rate would be 100%. So, in full Yoshi P style to keep up the FFXIV endgame charade and artificial difficulty whenever and wherever possible you need to get 7 others by using a 3rd party site, align everyone's schedule, actually get along with them, they need to get along with you and each other, multiply the memorization process and chance for slip ups x8 and turn something what would take a solo player 1-2 hours to clear into a dozen hours ordeal.

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Being forced to play an multiplayer game with actual people is artificial difficulty?

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Meanwhile they don't add Trust for Ultimate, Savage or generally all content which would easily be possible given it's nature or else the clear rate would be 100%. So, in full Yoshi P style to keep up the FFXIV endgame charade and artificial difficulty whenever and wherever possible you need to get 7 others by using a 3rd party site, align everyone's schedule, actually get along with them, they need to get along with you and each other, multiply the memorization process and chance for slip ups x8 and turn something what would take a solo player 1-2 hours to clear into a dozen hours ordeal.

But they don't even get the not-so-subtle hints as to why the endgame participation is somewhere at or below 10% and 2/3 Ultimate clears are bought when the boosting sites have sales.

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There's a world of difference between "I want to do this content with 7 other people on a limited job that's restricted from it for arbitrary reasons" and "I want to play my massively multiplayer game without having to interact or deal with other people", wtf are you smoking?

Can’t wait for this clear to be used as an excuse to nerf spreadlo

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Can’t wait for this clear to be used as an excuse to nerf spreadlo

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I doubt they even care enough about the state of tanks or healers to even address it.

I would say wait until 8.0 but we all know tanks will get upgraded Bulwark, thrill ect. While healers will get two new heal ogcds and likely dots removed to make space.

Easy fix. Give TBs the same mechanic that explodes when the target dies, as certain other attacks do, or

Suck it up and force players to join ultimates with "standard" comp.

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Originally Posted by Inputnamehere

Easy fix. Give TBs the same mechanic that explodes when the target dies, as certain other attacks do, or

Suck it up and force players to join ultimates with "standard" comp.

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This is the worst way to approach a design issue with tanks and healers. Your not actually fixing the issue that tanks and healers should feel impactful, your just making them be there for the sake of being there.

The difficulty of this fight was the result of many people normalizing the use of third party tools to solve mechanics in TOP, thinking they were entitled to clear every fight.

*Cries in Warrior Unga Boongas*

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

This is the worst way to approach a design issue with tanks and healers. Your not actually fixing the issue that tanks and healers should feel impactful, your just making them be there for the sake of being there.

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Not me. The development team.

Looking at where the game's heading, I won't be surprised if they resolve to take such measures.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

i have no clue about thst fight, but sounds as if tank busters are the only reason tanks are 'needed'.
they really need to increase the frequency we get dmg... not just in fru

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Not really anything new. It's arguably been that way since late Shadowbringers but certainly since Endwalker.
Tank busters are the only remaining mechanic that attempts to make tanks look like more than simplistic DPS with an innate -20% damage debuff.

Exactly this all boils down to a design issue generated from the loss of agro as a mechanic

With no agro tanks functionally don’t have any job mechanics. Tankbusters are the only mechanic that exists that forces them to engage with their mitigation toolkit

Because of this loss of tank agro tanks have basically been given as compensation healer mechanics which pushes healers to the side because tanks are bulkier and do more damage than healers

The design of the game needs to engage with tank design so tank design doesn’t encroach on healer design which will fix both roles

It's not entirely just aggro management, it's also the loss of any kind of control over the boss.
Good boss positioning was a skill to master for every fight, since it could make both dealing damage and dodging mechanics easier for the rest of your party.
Technically boss positioning still exists, but it's vestigal at best. It mattered in exactly two fights in the current raid tier, for a single mechanic per fight...and one of those is debatable.

people act like having a 3rd shield heal that does nothing but spamming massive shields on a dps that would otherwise be 1 shot by every hit, makes tanks useless

(because of a clear that required 8 people which played on austistic level with tons of luck/good patterns, while they could never ever pull it off themselfes in their lifes)

the fight is good as it is :shrug:

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

people act like having a 3rd shield heal that does nothing but spamming massive shields on a dps that would otherwise be 1 shot by every hit, makes tanks useless

the fight is good as it is :shrug:

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Spreadlo is only about 1200 potency even when you boost it which is like 100-150k HP. A non spreadlo adlo is like 500 potency the tankbusters that actually hurt do about 700k and autos should hit straight through adlo. The third SCH isn’t the problem here

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Spreadlo is only about 1200 potency even when you boost it which is like 100-150k HP. A non spreadlo adlo is like 500 potency the tankbusters that actually hurt do about 700k and autos should hit straight through adlo. The third SCH isn’t the problem here

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you can complain about it, once "no tank clears" become meta and every 2nd group is able to pull it off

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

you can complain about it, once "no tank clears" become meta and every 2nd group is able to pull it off

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Didn’t even wait a single post before jumping to the most braindead deflection that would make r/ffxiv proud

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

you can complain about it, once "no tank clears" become meta and every 2nd group is able to pull it off

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Unlikely, no healer clears still looks to be far more normal. You can see even with the no tank clear, the DPS check seems pretty tight in P5 (no one can really take tankbusters because there's no tanks to invuln so damage down goes to the party after getting raised). Healers in general also just have less DPS than tanks, so it's pretty much assured if you see a 'no role clear' being more comfy / meta, it's most likely going to be no healer clear with tanks/dps unless they drastically increase the heal check requirements relative to tank/dps sustain.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

Unlikely, no healer clears still looks to be far more normal. You can see even with the no tank clear, the DPS check seems pretty tight in P5 (no one can really take tankbusters because there's no tanks to invuln so damage down goes to the party after getting raised). Healers in general also just have less DPS than tanks, so it's pretty much assured if you see a 'no role clear' being more comfy / meta, it's most likely going to be no healer clear with tanks/dps unless they drastically increase the heal check requirements relative to tank/dps sustain.

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how do "no heal ult" clears look normal? Because there is 1 group every year, who pulls it off after countless tries? Its as special as no tank clears are and they will never ever be meta in any way

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

how do "no heal ult" clears look normal? Because there is 1 group every year, who pulls it off after countless tries? Its as special as no tank clears are and they will never ever be meta in any way

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Nobody is scared that this will become meta

People are annoyed the balance of the trinity is so warped that this is even possible

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Nobody is scared that this will become meta

People are annoyed the balance of the trinity is so warped that this is even possible

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This is something which is in every mmo i played in the last 15 years possible in every mmo you have people which do things which normal people cant do and u know? in these games people are happy about it, people are happy to see how such challenged are done and they know its something not everyone can do

while in final, OH NOOOO THE TRINITY, HEALER STRIKE USELSS, TANKS USELSS OH NOO BLASPHEMY
how dare they do pull something of not only 1% can do, now we need to balance everything

the encounter design in final is completly ok, you cant take such things as example because not even 1% of the playerbase is able to pull it off so healer and tanks are still needed. and even if they now change something with the encounter design sooner or later people will still find ways to pull stuff like that off.

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Originally Posted by AvoSturmfaust

This is something which is in every mmo i played in the last 15 years possible in every mmo you have people which do things which normal people cant do and u know? in these games people are happy about it, people are happy to see how such challenged are done and they know its something not everyone can do

while in final, OH NOOOO THE TRINITY, HEALER STRIKE USELSS, TANKS USELSS OH NOO BLASPHEMY
how dare they do pull something of not only 1% can do, now we need to balance everything

the encounter design in final is completly ok, you cant take such things as example because not even 1% of the playerbase is able to pull it off so healer and tanks are still needed. and even if they now change something with the encounter design sooner or later people will still find ways to pull stuff like that off.

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You know what other games have?

Unbalanced interesting classes

We traded interesting classes for 20 flavours of beige slop + gay mage and interesting encounter design for DDR fight design and we still get this garbage

Why do we have a harshly enforced trinity design where the 8 supports are shades of the same class and we have support classes that have no support allowing for easy mathematical balancing when they still can’t balance it