Why does Cure 1 not become Cure 2?

like most other healers get an upgrade to their healing spells.. but Cure 1 and 2 remain seperate... why?

Freecure.

https://i.imgur.com/iBGZRVa.png

AST has their own version of it.

https://i.imgur.com/yOQdkZa.png

It’s old legacy design decisions they haven’t changed

Freecure actually used to be somewhat useful. Not like “good” good but you used to have to spend a lot of time single target GCD healing the tank and it cost a lot of mana in a time that mana functioned differently to how it does now

Freecure was kinda a useful added bonus doing this

It’s a similar reason as to why you will still get some people on SCH suggesting to alternate adlo and physick. That used to be a useful tactic but that’s long since passed now

It’d be nice if there was a way they could give Cure/Physick/Benefic/Diagnosis something that actually makes them worth existing. Idk what that would take but it would be nice. Something better than bloody Freecure or Enhanced Benefic II anyway lol. Plus they could actually develop them to be unique rather than direct counterparts to each other (currently it’s Cure = Benefic / Physick = Diagnosis)

Devs:

Quote:

---

Small multi dollar company.
Pls have patience
Wait for 8.0
Also please dont unsub

---

or something along those lines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ViinaS

Devs:


or something along those lines.

---

Don’t forget the classic:
‘We don’t want to upset people who like this playstyle *reworks AST cards again*’ lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

Don’t forget the classic:
‘We don’t want to upset people who like this playstyle *reworks AST cards again*’ lol

---

Oh yeah, especially how the Devs are so in-line with not upsetting people with class changes.
*reworks VPR weeks after release to dumb it down*
*reworks DRG to dumb it down*
*guts MNK positionals even harder*
*makes an entire Mudra of NIN useless and makes their GCD longer due to that*
*stuffs GCDs into DNC burst window and makes them overcap*

They sure do have a great track record. And that's only DT.
That said I levelled AST with MSQ cause I didnt really like playing AST before.... +queue time
Now I hate AST so much that I won't ever touch it again.

Cure 1 is your always available basic healing spell. It is more a theory but if you run out of mana you can still use Cure 1 to fulfill your duty as a healer because it's so cheap. Cure 2 is kind of expensive to use.

Especially between level 30 and 52 you are still dependend on Cure 1 if the tank does crazy pulls.

If you upgrade Cure 1 into Cure 2 at level 30 you have to reduce the mana cost of Cure 2 - which will remove the last bit of mana management from WHM. And you cannot upgrade it later because that would be awkward for your hotbars.

Cure 1 is limping along because it's simply the lesser evil.

Also currently Cure1 has a slightly shorter cast than Cure2, which has helped me save a tank in some weirdly tight situations that I don't remember how I've gotten myself into, but they've happened

I mean in a hypothetical scenario where the devs wake up, remove most of the oGCD ocean, make them GCDs instead and make fights actually require continuous and real healing, having a "mana saving" spam heal would actually be useful. Yep.

It's just that we don't take enough or consistent enough (mostly the second) damage to require GCD heals, of which there are very few while we have a whole array of various-CD oGCD options. We don't need our GCDs to be good. Or even exist. Hence Cure 1 and Benefic 1 make absolutely 0 sense as the game is right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurarok

Also currently Cure1 has a slightly shorter cast than Cure2, which has helped me save a tank in some weirdly tight situations that I don't remember how I've gotten myself into, but they've happened

---

In theory at least, the actual heal will reach the target 0.5s faster than Cure II would. But that's a really rare/niche situation to get into and normally would've existed alongside other more glaring issue(s).

Another niche situation I've personally experienced was during P10S prog where I had somebody touched the poison puddle accidentally. I was playing as a SCH at that time and would rather save MP at the time for the sake of progging so I opted to spam Physick for the duration of the DoT. If I were a WHM at that time I would've used Cure I/Freecure for the same reason. The 400 MP cost & 1.5s cast time also mimics the need to slidecast just like our filler perfectly.

... I know at this point I'm reaching hard to think of a 'good reason why this button exist' lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

In theory at least, the actual heal will reach the target 0.5s faster than Cure II would. But that's a really rare/niche situation to get into and normally would've existed alongside other more glaring issue(s).

---

Oh yeah no it doesn't really justify its existence. I also question MedicaI still existing for a similar reason. CureIII's an alternative aoe raw heal that's targetable and has higher potency, while MedicaII/III covers a wider range than MedicaI, where a single tick of MedicaIII's HoT would put it over its potency, and you also have Afflatus Rapture that's instant cast, dps neutral, costs 0 mp, and has the same potency and a wider radius. They may as well merge MedicaI into MedicaII and adjust CureIII's range and MP cost if needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurarok

Oh yeah no it doesn't really justify its existence. I also question MedicaI still existing for a similar reason. CureIII's an alternative aoe raw heal that's targetable and has higher potency, while MedicaII/III covers a wider range than MedicaI, where a single tick of MedicaIII's HoT would put it over its potency, and you also have Afflatus Rapture that's instant cast, dps neutral, costs 0 mp, and has the same potency and a wider radius. They may as well merge MedicaI into MedicaII and adjust CureIII's range and MP cost if needed.

---

Another old feature that used to work because medica 2’s tick used to be half the potency for twice the duration (so instead of being 150 for 15 seconds it was 75 for 30 seconds)

So if used to be optimal to apply medica 2 once then spam medica 1 to cover high damage phases where you couldn’t afford cure 3

Now it’s just cheaper and easier to basically spam medica 2 or rapture depending on the situation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Connor

It’d be nice if there was a way they could give Cure/Physick/Benefic/Diagnosis something that actually makes them worth existing. Idk what that would take but it would be nice. Something better than bloody Freecure or Enhanced Benefic II anyway lol. Plus they could actually develop them to be unique rather than direct counterparts to each other (currently it’s Cure = Benefic / Physick = Diagnosis)

---

they do called a DPS messing up a mech that doesn't one shot them. ok to be precise there sometime a DPS can get hit be a AOE and only take 20k damage knowing cure 1 or anything cure 16k I will use that instead I think it's even closer too but it always help to not lose to much mp for like 36k heal knowing the DPS will heal overtime

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

they do called a DPS messing up a mech that doesn't one shot them. ok to be precise there sometime a DPS can get hit be a AOE and only take 20k damage knowing cure 1 or anything cure 16k I will use that instead I think it's even closer too but it always help to not lose to much mp for like 36k heal knowing the DPS will heal overtime

---

I’d rather solve that with my 10,000 oGCD’s or just let eos do it for me rather than resorting to weak GCD heals

tetragrammaton and afflatus solace are so much faster than CureI for spot heals too

At the end of the day there's just too many instances and available tool that completely negates Cure I's usefulness, leaving a very edge of the niche-st cases that warrants its proper use outside being synced below lv30.

Waiting for next Assize also works most of the time. Heck even Divine Benison may also count as 'spot healing' w/ same Cure I potency as well and they come up often enough they're almost always ready for anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurarok

Oh yeah no it doesn't really justify its existence. I also question MedicaI still existing for a similar reason. CureIII's an alternative aoe raw heal that's targetable and has higher potency, while MedicaII/III covers a wider range than MedicaI, where a single tick of MedicaIII's HoT would put it over its potency, and you also have Afflatus Rapture that's instant cast, dps neutral, costs 0 mp, and has the same potency and a wider radius. They may as well merge MedicaI into MedicaII and adjust CureIII's range and MP cost if needed.

---

I mused with similar idea of moving Asylum's effect into Medica family spells but with HoT potencies spread across at about twice of today's duration (as a reference to the old Medica II effect). It rarely makes sense IMHO to reward you with Medica II at lv50, then almost immediately the very next milestone 2 levels later gives you Asylum which functions more or less the same except oGCD, even moreso since they buffed its radius.

At the very least this idea removes 1 oGCD to give WHM something else...

WHM just desperately needs something to do with its resources that aren’t pointless overheal on heal checks the shield healers are overequipped to handle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Supersnow845

WHM just desperately needs something to do with its resources that aren’t pointless overheal on heal checks the shield healers are overequipped to handle

---

Yeah exactly, fights need to start dealing real amounts of damage like in other MMOs.

I've always thought the basic single target heals (Cure, Benefic, Physick, etc) should be instant cast. That way you can chase a racing tank with a quick heal that doesn't leave you locked in place. The Free Cure Trait should remove the MP cost from Cure instead of making Cure 2 free. This would make spamming Cure a literal way to save MP and offer the exact same advantage of the original Free Cure Trait (but better) since the MP you save could be used on Cure 2. If you die as healer coming back with no MP is like a second death as you're practically useless. Making Cure free would offer an obvious choice to get back into the action while you wait for your MP to Regen back to a manageable level. Healers have always been one of the least mobile classes in the game so this change would breathe a lot of life back into the hollow design of CNJ. Imagine being able to run from enemies while you heal yourself with Cure instead of standing there getting slapped in the face as a fresh CNJ.

As for Medica, Medica 2, and Cure 3 I think Medica 2 specifically needs a 30 second duration that can be extended to 60 if cast twice in succession and no hp regen. I would instead let Medica 2 place an effect called 'Faith' on all party members that increases DPS by 1% or maybe Determination by 5% to be more healing oriented but is essentially a buff you want to always keep up that alters WHM spells. Casting Cure on a person with Faith would cause 18 seconds of Regen. Regen as an instant spell would no longer exist. Cure 2 would have its potency increased by 30% on anyone with 'Faith'. Medica would cause an AOE Regen to anyone in range if they have 'Faith' becoming what Medica 2 is now. Cure 3 would still be a massive heal with a small range but increase the duration of any WHM skills by 15 seconds on party members if they have 'faith'. This would give all the GCD spells a definitive purpose.

-Medica 2 is for increasing party DPS by granting 'faith'

-Medica is your standard AOE heal that causes a party Regen with 'faith' active

-Cure 3 is your powerful AOE heal that extends WHM effects by 15 seconds with 'faith' active

-Cure 2 is a powerful single target heal worth slightly more than Tetragrammaton and Afflatus Solace with 'Faith' active

-Cure is always available as a free instant cast GCD heal that causes 18 seconds of Regen with 'Faith" active.

This gives the core GCDs a reason to exists and even prunes one spell in the form of Regen which could be repurposed as an attack if we're lucky and hopefully not something boring like Glare IV every two minutes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NobleWinter

snip

---

Learning that cast times exist isn't a bad thing for a Sorcerer role. When trying to run from a target perhaps it'd help if they had a skill that stopped them in their tracks, or knocked them back. Would be even better if it did some damage. If only.

For chasing a tank with an instant cast you have aero, regen, and aetherial shift. If that's not enough I'd rather they give Thin Air an instant cast effect and/or shorten PoM's recast to 60s for more GlareIVs.

WHM and AST also both have several powerful oGCDs that allow them to heal right after being revived. MP management's just not really a concern with all the free healing tools we have.

I personally really don't want WHM to have a raid buff to keep it differentiated from AST, even with a sustained type like that, and also to keep it mirrored with BLM. Also, while this game has extendable buffs/debuffs, they don't have extendable HoTs/DoTs so I'm led to believe there's some limitation that's keeping them from doing those. Although, did Time Dilation allow HoTs to be extended too?

Old Celestial Opposition were usually mentioned when it comes to extendable HoTs from the past. They were super effective when used in conjunction with AST's HoT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurarok

I personally really don't want WHM to have a raid buff to keep it differentiated from AST, even with a sustained type like that, and also to keep it mirrored with BLM. Also, while this game has extendable buffs/debuffs, they don't have extendable HoTs/DoTs so I'm led to believe there's some limitation that's keeping them from doing those. Although, did Time Dilation allow HoTs to be extended too?

---

From what I remember Time Dilation worked on any buffs the Astrologian cast. So not only would it affect cards but it extended Aspected Benefic from Diurnal, shields from Nocturnal, hell I think even Stoneskin and Protect technically got the extension (not that you’d ever use it for those lol). So while they’re not around anymore, having ‘HoTs with a manipulate-able (for want of a better word lol) duration’ is definitely possible. Or, it was anyway.

I feel like being able to play around with timer durations both helped differentiate AST and WHM and helped reinforce the ‘time/space magic’ aesthetic it had originally. So it could be a good way to differentiate them in future. I.E Aspected Benefic becomes much weaker than Regen but the effect can be extended to last longer or condensed to equal its strength? (Not a literal example so idk what the exact potencies would have to be just spitballing lol) ‘Timer stuff for the time mage’ makes sense I think maybe lol

Interesting idea though I wonder how compensation for the heal oGCDs lost for that (since it'd be 2 new buttons to add) would work. What would get the axe?

I mean sure, could easily cut out oGCD versions of GCD heals we have, assuming that the base duration is increased and can be increased further, since you'd need it less often, then marginally raise Malefic potency to compensate the overall damage loss from spending an extra GCD on a heal here or there. So maybe remove Celestial Intersection and Celestial Opposition, add single target shields to Synastry instead (say it also copies oGCD/regen healing now, which causes shields, while direct casted heals cause healing?), use the two buttons for Time Dilation and Time Compression, which affect everything in an X radius around the AST, either extending all current AST-based effects by N% or compressing them by M% but increasing potency by a non-equivalent (i.e. beneficial) amount?

Personal opinion:

Cure 1 upgrades to cure 2.
Cast time remains the same but only gets a potency boost of maybe 150 (instead of the 300 between thr current cure 1 and 2)

Cement it as your dedicated "oops I'm out of lilies" emwrgency heal.

Gain solus somewhere between 30 and 50.

Gain rapture at the level uou would have gains solus

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

like most other healers get an upgrade to their healing spells.. but Cure 1 and 2 remain seperate... why?

---

To confuse new players in thinking, Cure1 has a use after ~lvl 30

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NegativeS

Freecure.

https://i.imgur.com/iBGZRVa.png

AST has their own version of it.

https://i.imgur.com/yOQdkZa.png

---

even with 100% procc chance instead of 15%, it would still be bad to use Cure 1 (unless you are completly out of MP)

Anytime I'm tanking and I see a Whm fishing Freecure in endgame content, I die a little inside.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iedarus

Anytime I'm tanking and I see a Whm fishing Freecure in endgame content, I die a little inside.

---

That’s when you decide to reduce the amount of defensive cooldowns or use none at all so they’ll hopefully realize the futility of their method—or rather, nothing happens either way because spamming Cure I while ignoring Freecure is literally enough cure potency for tanks to survive in almost any wall pulls, unfortunately. Been there before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

That’s when you decide to reduce the amount of defensive cooldowns or use none at all so they’ll hopefully realize the futility of their method—or rather, nothing happens either way because spamming Cure I while ignoring Freecure is literally enough cure potency for tanks to survive in almost any wall pulls, unfortunately. Been there before.

---

they should learn to spam Holy instead of Cure 1.

You know cure 1 should evolve into cure 2 and using cure 2 has a chance to prok a free heal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zakuyia

You know cure 1 should evolve into cure 2 and using cure 2 has a chance to prok a free heal

---

With the DPS focus of the game, I'd let it proc that the next Glare turns into an oGCD. Meaning you get the GCD back, kinda.