Why don't they just make Eukrasian Dyskrasia spread Eukrasian Dosis?

Considering E Dyskrasia is only a gain on 4 and there's so much frustration with accidentally overwriting/overlapping dots when pulling packs, it would feel less clunky and more fun to use if it just spread E Dosis similar to Bane but on a GCD. You'd save a GCD spreading Dosis to 3+ targets so it'd be significantly less niche.

Honestly if you're the kind of person who optimizes their single-vs-AoE DoT for something as utterly meaningless (in regards to optimized damage) as dungeon pack pulls, then it really also doesn't matter. You got a single and an AoE DoT. Use the AoE if there's multiple enemies. Could you optimize it a bit more? Sure. Does it matter? Of course not, and why would you make it take two full casts to apply the AoE DoT instead of a single one?!

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Honestly if you're the kind of person who optimizes their single-vs-AoE DoT for something as utterly meaningless (in regards to optimized damage) as dungeon pack pulls, then it really also doesn't matter. You got a single and an AoE DoT. Use the AoE if there's multiple enemies. Could you optimize it a bit more? Sure. Does it matter? Of course not, and why would you make it take two full casts to apply the AoE DoT instead of a single one?!

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I’d much rather the bane idea because e dyskrasia is deceptively weak and SGE is crying out for literally any kit interaction

How can you lose in kit interaction to literally the only class in tje game that has dys synergy

/shrug

It's just a single target and an AoE DoT. It's not rocket science. We got a single and an AoE nuke, too. Which conveniently, intuitively and expectedly turn into the single and AoE DoT with Eukrasia.

It'd be quite unintuitive if one turned into a Bane instead of the AoE variant of the other. Might as well make our group shield work like Deployment Tactics while you're at it? Kerachole just spreads Taurochole's buff? Pneuma is used after Dosis to spread instant healing from the target of the Dosis-Kardia effect?

(what I'm trying to say is, Bane as a concept is utterly unintuitive for a game that has Single-vs-AoE variants for the vast vast vast majority of abilities. Just do the simple thing. Which the devs did.)

I got a (IMHO) better solution: revert back to media tour build where they allow stacking of both DoT.

Clearly whoever green lighted the stacking limitation probably never run together with tanks while slapping their instant DoTs one by one through the enmity table/tab targeting.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I got a (IMHO) better solution: revert back to media tour build where they allow stacking of both DoT.

Clearly whoever green lighted the stacking limitation probably never run together with tanks while slapping their instant DoTs one by one through the enmity table/tab targeting.

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Yeah that’s the problem, E dys is near useless in this game because the game has already encouraged you for 70 levels to run and dot as you run

The more you dot as you run the greater the loss even pressing E dys is

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I got a (IMHO) better solution: revert back to media tour build where they allow stacking of both DoT.

Clearly whoever green lighted the stacking limitation probably never run together with tanks while slapping their instant DoTs one by one through the enmity table/tab targeting.

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But that's also just meaningless busywork then. Do they get side-benefits from doctors so inducing extra RSI from people having to tab-target ED is relevant to them?

If the idea is to deal more damage via stacked DoTs, just have two AoE DoTs. That is, don't go for a needlessly complicated solution that requires 0 extra brain to execute and just needs more hand motions, we're not getting paid per person with Carpal Tunnel. If you want more AoE DoT, just add AoE DoT. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

So here's my solution:

* Keep ED as is.
* Change EDys to deal the exact same per-tick damage as ED.

Done. Simple solutions to trivial issues.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

But that's also just meaningless busywork then. Do they get side-benefits from doctors so inducing extra RSI from people having to tab-target ED is relevant to them?

If the idea is to deal more damage via stacked DoTs, just have two AoE DoTs. That is, don't go for a needlessly complicated solution that requires 0 extra brain to execute and just needs more hand motions, we're not getting paid per person with Carpal Tunnel. If you want more AoE DoT, just add AoE DoT. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be.

So here's my solution:

* Keep ED as is.
* Change EDys to deal the exact same per-tick damage as ED.

Done. Simple solutions to trivial issues.

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I mean, if the goal is to reduce the nuance, well sure that would work. Not that I would agree to have though. E.Dyskrasia is already a dead button on ST cases and I'd rather not reinforce more of those. I would love to have more cases where I'm incentivized to press my AoE (read: not Glaroilficosis) button in supposedly strictly ST situations.

Reintroducing the media tour build wouldn't only solve OP's frustration over accidentally overwriting DoT, it will also open up more opportunities to use E.Dyskrasia both dungeon and raid situations.

Would also love to see double dots back, but since we're likely not getting it, turning it into GCD Bane is basically the next best thing as dot overlap is another issue that players can run into.

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Honestly if you're the kind of person who optimizes their single-vs-AoE DoT for something as utterly meaningless (in regards to optimized damage) as dungeon pack pulls, then it really also doesn't matter. You got a single and an AoE DoT. Use the AoE if there's multiple enemies. Could you optimize it a bit more? Sure. Does it matter? Of course not, and why would you make it take two full casts to apply the AoE DoT instead of a single one?!

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Doesn't change the fact that it's still annoying to deal with. No one likes playing with a gimped kit even in casual content. E Dyskrasia is only a gain on 4, anyway, so there are still times where E Dosis is better when pulling packs. Turning it into a Bane (maybe also in the hopes of getting E Phlegma in the future for that Miasma II gameplay) would make it less clunky and more fun to use. My reason for taking more than one cast instead of one?

Fun. That's literally it. Players are so obsessed with things being as accessible and streamlined as possible that any friction that requires brainpower to overcome is seen as a bad thing. It's called gameplay.

E dyskrasia isn’t even necessarily a gain on 4 depending on the pack distribution. If the first pack is 4 and the second pack is 3 or below it can still be a gain depending on distance to DOT the 6-7 enemies independently as the loss from overriding e dosis you cast on the run when you reach the second pack is greater than the dyskrasia casts you gain which depending on ping may not even hit

E dyskrasia was obviously designed to be stackable but when JP threw a hissy fit and it got changed last minute they didn’t realise that the button is an impotent mess, now that it doesn’t stack it needs to straight up be buffed to be worth overriding the natural healer design of dotting while you are running

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Originally Posted by Carighan

Honestly if you're the kind of person who optimizes their single-vs-AoE DoT for something as utterly meaningless (in regards to optimized damage) as dungeon pack pulls, then it really also doesn't matter. You got a single and an AoE DoT. Use the AoE if there's multiple enemies. Could you optimize it a bit more? Sure. Does it matter? Of course not, and why would you make it take two full casts to apply the AoE DoT instead of a single one?!

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This is one of the only scenarios where the AoE DoT is usable, where it barely gets use because you're single-dotting everything one-by-one during pulls because they're spread out by default. It's not a problem if the DoTs stack, but they do not.

I'm shocked anyone would actually complain about the dots being stackable. What a wild world to live in.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

I'm shocked anyone would actually complain about the dots being stackable. What a wild world to live in.

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Yeah that part would be fine, of course. Just not to turn the AoE DoT into a DoT spreader instead.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

I'm shocked anyone would actually complain about the dots being stackable. What a wild world to live in.

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From doing some skimming of the japanese healer forums to see their reaction to the healer strike it seemed like most of them prefer healer to be an extremely low effort job.

Breaking News (or not) : SE don't like DoT

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Originally Posted by Lorika

Breaking News (or not) : SE don't like DoT

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The fact healers have kept their DoTs for so long tells me otherwise. Plus, multiple new classes have been added with Debuffs that cause the same issue as DoTs. As always SE makes questionable choices and gives little to no explanation as to why.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

The fact healers have kept their DoTs for so long tells me otherwise. Plus, multiple new classes have been added with Debuffs that cause the same issue as DoTs. As always SE makes questionable choices and gives little to no explanation as to why.

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*Look at SMN Rework, At Scholar DoT major pruning, at the removal of DoT on Ninja and Monk, of the lessened importance of Bard DoT and several others DoT removed*
Yeah SE Love DoT /irony.

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Originally Posted by NobleWinter

The fact healers have kept their DoTs for so long tells me otherwise.

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No it tells you it's low-priority on their task board, like everything that has "healer" in it. Green post-it notes have worse glue so they keep falling off, in case you didn't know. :P

The healer DOT’s just feel like legacy filler they never really came up with adequate justification to delete

I mean the whole point of this thread about e dyskrasia being hilariously underpowered because the devs obviously don’t actually understand how the healer DOT’s work so it’s obvious they are just there because they can’t be bothered deleting them even if they don’t care either way

A little off topic, but DoTs don't do damage when the boss is untargetable in most content, right? And I've heard it used to not be that way? It seems kinda silly they went out of their way to punish refreshing them right before that happens, but also go and make a job that's rewarded with a bucketload of extra damage in the same situation

All I know is Bane was oddly satisfying, but I'd rather it return to SCH before it got added to SGE. And I think I remember dots used to still deal damage while the boss is untargetable, but I don't know if that's correct or when it changed if that's true. I think the only reason dots are still on healers right now is because otherwise the single attack button would pretty much be it for their damage rotations. Not that the dots help make it much more engaging right now due to not interacting with anything else. They can't compensate for such poor rotations. The dots aren't the problem, though, it's the idea that healers shouldn't be damaging, which has reduced their rotations to 1 button for the majority of the time.

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Originally Posted by Azurarok

A little off topic, but DoTs don't do damage when the boss is untargetable in most content, right? And I've heard it used to not be that way? It seems kinda silly they went out of their way to punish refreshing them right before that happens, but also go and make a job that's rewarded with a bucketload of extra damage in the same situation

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IIRC it was a fix intended to not allow certain bosses dies while they're in the middle of transition or mechanics that makes them not targetable. I may be wrong about that though.

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Originally Posted by ArtaVallian

[...]The dots aren't the problem, though, it's the idea that healers shouldn't be damaging, which has reduced their rotations to 1 button for the majority of the time.

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The fact that they had this idea of healer shouldn't be dpsing (preferably) but at the same time also factors healer dps into fight length's gotta be one of the most hypocritical design they've ever cooked up.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

The fact that they had this idea of healer shouldn't be dpsing (preferably) but at the same time also factors healer dps into fight length's gotta be one of the most hypocritical design they've ever cooked up.

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And more importantly, don't provide any damage I need to be healing. This is such an FF-problem: In other MMORPGs, I usually have 0 issues with my damage being boring, as honestly, I'm busy healing. That's how it ought to be. I'm a healer, if I want to just spam damage spells I'd be playing a caster DPS!

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Originally Posted by Carighan

And more importantly, don't provide any damage I need to be healing. This is such an FF-problem: In other MMORPGs, I usually have 0 issues with my damage being boring, as honestly, I'm busy healing. That's how it ought to be. I'm a healer, if I want to just spam damage spells I'd be playing a caster DPS!

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On the other hand I don’t actually think 14’s “healers are accomplished damage casters in their own right” is a flawed design philosophy as it both ties into the WOL being the most powerful human on the planet (imagine if you were the WOL and could barely cast an offensive spell) and the fact that its lore appropriate given nyrm (SCH) and amdapor (WHM) fought mhach and each other to a three way standstill

It’s just the fact that said “accomplished damage caster” is achieved in literally the most boring way possible

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

It’s just the fact that said “accomplished damage caster” is achieved in literally the most boring way possible

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I'd go a step further and say none of the four current caster jobs are "accomplished damage casters" in regards to their design. Red Mage comes closest, Picto hangs around and is of course efficient, but design-wise I think they're all lame as hell regardless with their static or quasi-static rotations, fixed timings and inability to adjust to fight conditions, and just as importantly, the fights never randomly and unreliably challenging people to break from the static setup of their jobs.

In a way, the spam-single-nuke-until-you-die-of-boredom is no more bad as a design, it's actually more honest. The mental complexity of playing the actual damage casters is no better than just pressing a single button endlessly. Like I said, Red Mage gets a minor pass because hey, at least you have to react to a proc! It's sad that that is the height of job design. -.-

But yeah in theory having a solid damage casting setup would be fun. But it ought to be an identity. Like the Blood Mage of Vanguard, a single healer could massively be based around their damage output and comparatively complex damage setup, basically what Sage shows like a 1% hint of with their Kardia. If everyone had it, essentially nobody has it, as it'd just become the new baseline we perceive as terminally boring. Plus I really don't think I ought to have much time to think about dealing damage during a raid fight, that just feels all wrong and icky.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

IIRC it was a fix intended to not allow certain bosses dies while they're in the middle of transition or mechanics that makes them not targetable. I may be wrong about that though.

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Was there a problem with that happening? It's not like we carve the boss' corpse. I don't know of any bosses that do that and also have gimmicks where they need to die somewhere on the map either.

edit: moreover, they've stopped a boss' HP from falling to 0 in certain moments, so I don't see how they couldn't do that in these as well.

> just

That word carries a lot of weight. How many healers do have a no-CD AoE DoT exactly that this would ever be a goal of the devs?