Realm Reborn had way more content when current expansions

In Realm reborn we got over 30 dungeons, 5 beast tribes, Events were way better, Leveling was a lot more fun..

WTH HAPPEN??

Now all we get are 13 dungeons 3 beast tribes and OMG leveling is boring AF.
Did SE lower the budget for the game or something? How can YoshyP be proud of this?

This has been a trend since Heavensward.

Um.... "ARR" was essentially the base game....all the others are add-on content.... makes perfect sense.

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Originally Posted by Vedauwoo

Um.... "ARR" was essentially the base game....all the others are add-on content.... makes perfect sense.

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Not a good reason to have leveling this bad now

In ARR, they had some dungeons largely done (from 1.0) and just reworked them. A lot of fights, including with the first few primals, side dungeons like Dzemael Darkhold and Aurum Vale, and many of the Bahamut fights were based on things from 1.0.

In ARR, they got almost everyone in Square Enix to work on the game - pausing their work on all their other projects, which is not the case now. This was a temporary, emergency thing they did to save the game and remake it in 2 years. A large amount of this was work on the engine and converting their new Single Player engine into an MMORPG engine.

Despite all of that, ARR was mostly a simple story, constantly showing us history flashbacks of 1.0, and creating a story to salvage and "connect the dots" of the random stuff that happened in 1.0, such as explaining the Echo, the mysterious hooded thugs that we call Ascians, the circle of knowing, Midgardsormr, Gaius and all these primals and beast tribes. So despite almost everyone in Square Enix working on the game, they still just barely squeezed out a simple story that cleverly salvaged 1.0's lore somehow and reused a lot of assets. But I think figuring out how to salvage the lore the way they did was probably very challenging, especially when that lore eventually had to continue to be salvaged up through Endwalker to give Ascians all this depth.

So you see, base ARR is just 14 dungeons but if you exclude the side ones reworked from 1.0 it's less.

Now what about the PATCH dungeons? Well, we didn't have a wide variety of dungeons back then which made it poor competition to an MMORPG like WoW, so they decided to make 3 dungeons per patch. Now that we have around 100 dungeons, there is no need to make so many, so they reduced the amount they make.

To say there was more content in ARR is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, we lost 10 sidequest dungeons from patches, but we gained 3 variant dungeons, 3 criterion dungeons, a deep dungeon, normal raids (normal/savage didn't used to be split), a field operation (ie. Diadem/Eureka/Bozja/Shade's Triangle), a Chaos Raid, misc content such as the Masked Carnivale and Exploratory content (ie. Ishgard Restoration/Island Sanctuary/Cosmic Exploration). The closest you could say it had to Ultimate was a savage version of coils, but there are even 2 Ultimate fights now usually.

Now, there was more in the way of grindy stuff like relic weapons in ARR and HW that weren't nerfed to the point of, say, spending 1,500 tomestones. But this was making you do stuff like FATE farming and leves - the sort of stuff people on these forums would complain about being forced to do anyway because they don't like FATEs. And in any case we will get such a grind with the Field Operation.

I miss having all of the optional dungeons to help pad out Expert roulette ._.

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

In Realm reborn we got over 30 dungeons, 5 beast tribes, Events were way better, Leveling was a lot more fun..

WTH HAPPEN??

Now all we get are 13 dungeons 3 beast tribes and OMG leveling is boring AF.
Did SE lower the budget for the game or something? How can YoshyP be proud of this?

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Leveling was more fun? Didn't people just spam fates because dungeon exp was so poor?
Also, there was the same amount of raids and ex fights. There was no other content but dungeons. So no, arr didn't have more content.

We have far more content now than we ever got back then.

People have also been complaining about ARR's extremely long post-game for years. We don't have that problem any more.

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc...M0hK/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

People have also been complaining about ARR's extremely long post-game for years. We don't have that problem any more.

https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc...M0hK/giphy.gif

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reason why we get crap content now...

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Originally Posted by Miguel85NYC

In Realm reborn we got over 30 dungeons, 5 beast tribes, Events were way better, Leveling was a lot more fun..

WTH HAPPEN??

Now all we get are 13 dungeons 3 beast tribes and OMG leveling is boring AF.
Did SE lower the budget for the game or something? How can YoshyP be proud of this?

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When they cut back on dungeons YoshiP literally said they were AND why they were. I'm sure you can find him answering your question when he gave it before ShB release.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

When they cut back on dungeons YoshiP literally said they were AND why they were. I'm sure you can find him answering your question when he gave it before ShB release.

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To be fair, storm blood released in 2017, it's now 2024, it's been a very long time. I'm not sure what Yoshi P. said exactly in regards to this, either. He's said a lot of things over the years to the point that exactly when he said something and what verbiage he used is often a tad muddy these days as blog posts and conjecture changes over time.

I honestly don't recall the exact reason he gave.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Leveling was more fun? Didn't people just spam fates because dungeon exp was so poor?
Also, there was the same amount of raids and ex fights. There was no other content but dungeons. So no, arr didn't have more content.

We have far more content now than we ever got back then.

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At least people were in the world doing something.

Back in ARR, they had more devs and they worked insane hours to crank out the content. When I say insane, I mean it, we are talking sleep under your desk stuff.

Now, they have gone to a more realistic work week but they have lost devs to all of the other new games that Yoshi has to make and they can’t get enough new devs fast enough.

I’m starting to think that they need to flip their thinking on modders and embrace them to add more content. Such as having a dungeon competition, if it gets used, you get a years sub and name in the credit. Same with trials, raids, holiday events, etc.

It’s time to embrace the community to help save the game.

Switch the dev team to English, hire internationally,/ if/ dev pool is actually the problem.

On ARR, I don't remember it being uniquely problematic to current in the sense of content. Release and expansion MMO content is always different and trash bags runs in darklight gear and fate leveling in northern thanalan I think is people thinking a little rose color glasses.

I think primarily people had hopes and dreams in their eyes, and over time the game has had a petrify cast on it in terms of dev style. Unique things lightly break through the crust, but the formula is pretty much 'done' and occasionally stuff crumbles and falls off. For example your class identity crumbles overtime. Something new pokes through like variants or islands but they are little tufts with partial support, you don't see them tower off into their own. Like islands used primarily menu diving and right click interactions for the whole content, no new system just a pretty menu (I maxed my island, I like the island itself, the gameplay was insanely basic though). Your exploratory zones are unique but they are sequestered into their own fixed space, it's like a far more narrow borrowed power system in WoW. I'm not sure I love the idea itself, but I'd be unlikely to pick a narrow beam if I had to choose lol.

My overarching critique would be they put the game in a wind tunnel and started sand blasting, for years. We got a needle now lol. They seem to throw roleplay out the window and so the game is becoming less of an experience and more of an Uber to specific windblown destinations.

ARR also had 50 levels to deal with. Not to mention way more than two jobs. The expansions are only 10 levels with 2 new jobs. Do you just want a dungeon or trial at every level? You want ARR size every expansion? If you think the wait is long between expansions now, add more years to that.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Leveling was more fun? Didn't people just spam fates because dungeon exp was so poor?
Also, there was the same amount of raids and ex fights. There was no other content but dungeons. So no, arr didn't have more content.

We have far more content now than we ever got back then.

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Depending on the dungeon, dungeon EXP was actually really good and always has been.

People preferred to do FATEs though, because it's easier to brain off/get carried by a party doing all the work for you.

Many things in MMOs change over the years, but the amount of people wanting to get everything for free/no/low effort has not lmao.

Best example being Aurum Vale. A run of Aurum Vale if you let the Morbol eggs hatch could have you level from 47 to 50 in like 3~4 runs. If you were with friends or got good groups, your runs be right around 20 minutes.

Fates are so mind numbingly boring most of the time, I've always struggled to accept that people prefer them over dungeons for leveling lol

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Originally Posted by Vedauwoo

Um.... "ARR" was essentially the base game....all the others are add-on content.... makes perfect sense.

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Add-on content that you pay a full price game for along with a monthly sub? This isn't a singleplayer RPG with some 10 hour expansions. You have the complete wrong mindset.

It does make sense really. Base game would generally have the highest amount of dungeons and tribes. Between it being an effective 50 levels + post-story dungeons. You also need to consider the fact they are utilizing a wider range of content along the expansion cycle, e.g., Exploratory content, deep dungeons, two-tier difficulty for raids (Which was only present in SCoB), Ultimates, Criterion/Variant dungeon.

Even though I generally don't touch some of this content, to think that making a comparison... "We had 30 dungeons, now we have 13", is flawed at best. Unless you would rather go back to that design philosophy where a bulk of our content was just dungeon saturation.

I preferred levelling in ARR, simply because you had a lot more utilization in the open-world, so it actually felt like an MMO. The dungeons themselves though, not all of them were fun really. Quite a lot of them were just chore-driven Events I can't really speak on as I only do them as and when I feel like it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

It does make sense really. Base game would generally have the highest amount of dungeons and tribes. Between it being an effective 50 levels + post-story dungeons. You also need to consider the fact they are utilizing a wider range of content along the expansion cycle, e.g., Exploratory content, deep dungeons, two-tier difficulty for raids (Which was only present in SCoB), Ultimates, Criterion/Variant dungeon.

Even though I generally don't touch some of this content, to think that making a comparison... "We had 30 dungeons, now we have 13", is flawed at best. Unless you would rather go back to that design philosophy where a bulk of our content was just dungeon saturation.

I preferred levelling in ARR, simply because you had a lot more utilization in the open-world, so it actually felt like an MMO. The dungeons themselves though, not all of them were fun really. Quite a lot of them were just chore-driven Events I can't really speak on as I only do them as and when I feel like it anyway.

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I completely agree, ARR felt like a MMO, now the game feels like a single player game

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I’m starting to think that they need to flip their thinking on modders and embrace them to add more content. Such as having a dungeon competition, if it gets used, you get a years sub and name in the credit. Same with trials, raids, holiday events, etc.

It’s time to embrace the community to help save the game.

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This would be really cool.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

.

To say there was more content in ARR is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, we lost 10 sidequest dungeons from patches, but we gained 3 variant dungeons, 3 criterion dungeons, a deep dungeon, normal raids (normal/savage didn't used to be split), a field operation (ie. Diadem/Eureka/Bozja/Shade's Triangle), a Chaos Raid, misc content such as the Masked Carnivale and Exploratory content (ie. Ishgard Restoration/Island Sanctuary/Cosmic Exploration). The closest you could say it had to Ultimate was a savage version of coils, but there are even 2 Ultimate fights now usually.

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ah yes this topic lets have a history lesson shall we?
1.0- started with paladin, warrior, blackmage, whitemage, monk, and dragoon. had male lalafel, female miqote, male and female elezen, male roegydan, male and female hyurs, had dungeons, had a companion who did stuff with and for you which was trashed and replaced with retainers, levequests, dungeons, trials, hunts, and fates.hildebrand quests, oh an they kept reminding you to stop playing lmao.
2.0 added female lalafel, added female roe, added catmen/boys, added summoner and scholar, remade the maps, added treasure hunts, added hardmode and expert dungeons, added extreme trials, added savage raiding, added 24 man raiding, added various types of pvp(team matches and frontline) added relic gear and weapons, added the rogue/ninja job mid expansion, added cross class system, added golden saucer which in turn brought minigames, quick events, and chocobo racing. added player housing for fc at first but then opened smalls to solo players an later offered them mediums and larges, added the aesthician to remake character's hairstyles and make up or tatoos an eyebrows. the beast tribe quests, chocobo companion w/training to give them three disciplines, cross-class system, sight seeing log, grand companies which tied into free companies, linkshells,
3.0 au ri playable race, dark knight, astrologian, and machinist added, group pose mode, deep dungeon content, flying, treasure hunt dungeons, custom delivery quests.
4.0- samurai and redmage added, first ever ultimate, eureka content, swimming/diving, spear fishing, squadron npcs,
5.0- gunbreaker and dancer added, female viera added, male hrothgar added, limited blue mage content, ocean fishing, exploratory mode for dungeons, stickers for gpose, bozja(eureka 2.0) with 24 man raids included within, chloe story time(wow so innovative making you do old dated content for free stuff lol) fate rewards.
6.0- added male viera, added sage, added reaper, unreal content(gee we love old content lets make it harder), portrait system, island sanctuary.
role quest which NO ONE asked for btw, variant/criterion dungeons,
and now here we are today in our so loved 7.0 where we already have a roadmap of whats coming which is... what exactly??? more of the same ofc with them promising us only two unique things thus far that being: beastmaster, and this cosmic exploration project. with our only new job being pictomancer since viper is just re-skinned rogue lmao.
so i mean you tell me.. which of these expansions was the most ambitious and innovative lol

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

ah yes this topic lets have a history lesson shall we?

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Mostly got everything, except 3.x had Diadem (as obnoxious as it was to enter), chloe was added in 3.x and unsyncing ARR primals for it was common group content, squadrons were added in 3.x, 4.x added blue mage and 7.x is adding a Chaos Raid which is new and obviously the graphics update.

I'd say the 5.x bozja raids were innovative over Eureka due to being more than 1 of them + the CE and duel systems, unreal was due to the emergence of the MINE community since 5.0 release, role quests just reduce the workload of job quests because there's twice as many jobs now and they have at least tested the role in prior expansions ie. making them heal, Esuna, dodge as a DPS or use interrupts as a tank.

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viper is just re-skinned rogue lmao.

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Disagree on this part, at least in terms of rotation. It is similar in terms of aesthetic. I was able to find sword glams on a Ninja before Dawntrail release even.

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so i mean you tell me.. which of these expansions was the most ambitious and innovative lol

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Technically, Heavensward tried to innovate with Squadrons, Palace of the Dead and Diadem. So from the standpoint of effort, it was innovative. The expansion just felt like it was more the standard stuff to me overall. Extremes, Savages, hunts, FATE/relic farms, the stuff we still have today, but partying for WT and relics and job leveling via FATEs was pretty big then.

Stormblood changed things for me personally, because Eureka felt completely fresh. Complicated terrain to navigate, dragons that could 1 shot you, enemies that were genuinly tanky and could kill you etc. Most people complained about these things and continue to attack Pagos, yet Anemos and Pagos are what made it great. The people who attacked these things are probably why everything got streamlined to be easy and not take much time to complete.

Of course, you can also attribute Ultimates to Stormblood which gives another point to it being innovative. This was also the expansion they added Role Actions and Job Gauges, which you could argue began the streamlining of jobs, but either way it changed them.

Shadowbringers felt pretty lively though with the effort put into making the zones have a fantasy feel and the additions of CEs, duels, CE raids and DR Savage. It created a midcore content and it felt like anyone in a CE was enjoying it even if they didn't want to admit it, much like was the case in Eureka. Shadowbringers also ran Ishgard Restoration, which felt amazing to participate in, even if it was just for a few short minutes at a time. You can watch a video of it if you didn't see it. Having hundreds of players build a house was really cool!

And that's about it, because y'know, Endwalker felt quiet with a lot of things being solo. Trusts, Island Sanctuary, Variant and Criterion were innovative, if I'm objective, but trusts are whatever in practice and mean more soloing, island sanctuary was solo in an MMORPG nothing more to say, variants just end up tedious to "complete" all the pathways especially when the first 2 bosses aren't so much a challenge as just a chore to get to the last boss. Once again, variants allow more soloing in an MMORPG.

I've only heard and seen good things about Criterion itself, but the reward structure and release timing caused a lot of people to complain. Nevertheless, around the same % of people have beaten it and got the mounts as the amount that have beaten M4S, which is pretty significant actually.

So there has been innovation, objectively, it's just that it either didn't land successfully, or resulted in soloing in what is meant to be an MMORPG, with the exceptions really being Ultimate, Field Operations, Ishgard Restoration, Criterion and Deep Dungeons. The problem with Deep Dungeons is that after Palace of the Dead, all the new ones were mostly a copy+paste of POTD, which they've realized so they plan to change it for DT.

As for what innovation we will see through 7.x, we really just need to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Switch the dev team to English, hire internationally,/ if/ dev pool is actually the problem.

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If it wasnt because of the "Fluent in Japanese" requirement I would have applied for a job long time ago, I really would love to contribute to the game but they make it hard to even work for them

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Originally Posted by Raraka

If it wasnt because of the "Fluent in Japanese" requirement I would have applied for a job long time ago, I really would love to contribute to the game but they make it hard to even work for them

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That and the whole living in Japan thing for most roles. They'd get a lot more people if they didn't just do the bulk of development exclusively in Japan.

I'm not saying there aren't issues now but I don't think praising the time of the game where we all had to go fate grind at 47 because we were out of experience for the MSQ is the way to make a point about a lack of content.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Mostly got everything, except 3.x had Diadem (as obnoxious as it was to enter), chloe was added in 3.x and unsyncing ARR primals for it was common group content, squadrons were added in 3.x, 4.x added blue mage and 7.x is adding a Chaos Raid which is new and obviously the graphics update.

As for what innovation we will see through 7.x, we really just need to wait and see.

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my point isn't to argue that the game does or doesn't have anything, for a brand new fresh off the boat/carriage player yea they have a colossal amount to do ingame so much so its overwhelming.
but i brought up all that content to demonstrate that the OP was not incorrect whatsoever because ARR/2.0 did offer up the most things to do an yea like you said not all of it was "new" which is why i brought up the fact that 1.0 had dungeons, trials, fates, hunts etc.
but for players who have actively maintained consistent playtime an kept up with the game they get very little every single expansion an it its only gotten worse with the passing of time an they try to get people to go back to old content but dont even try to give us any valid good reason to go back to begin with they just let everything rot and decay without giving it any sort of sprucing or update.

an i don't get you, on one hand you agree there needs to be changes and shake ups but on the other hand you make post like this which is precisely counter to your other stance like whats going on with you? you don't need to defend or tell us what good things SE has done for this game we already know that stuff but this topic an others like it are for the things we DON'T like that they have done/are doing.
so just say that you don't agree with things thats perfectly fine everyone here is entitled to their opinion this is an open forum afterall but don't try to pretend there aren't things that are wrong with this game an that its not above reproach etc. if you really do care that much about how the game is perceived or received then you will allow for it to transform an allow it to have critique as that will help the developers the most in the long run in turn help us start receiving objectively better quality in the end.

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Originally Posted by ShadowyZero

for players who have actively maintained consistent playtime an kept up with the game they get very little every single expansion an it its only gotten worse with the passing of time

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I disagree with that but this is because I do all the grinds - the ones people dismiss like FATE farms, hunt farms, mount farms etc. A lot of the people saying "we get very little" then admit they just do the content 1 time or avoid the high-end content.

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they try to get people to go back to old content but dont even try to give us any valid good reason to go back to begin with

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They add a new unreal mount and minion every time. Sure, you can buy it with gil if you don't want to do unreal (that's the whole point, they don't want to force veterans to do old content again). But if you WANT to do it again, you can challenge yourself to earn the rewards properly.

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an i don't get you, on one hand you agree there needs to be changes and shake ups

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For the most part, I'm just conceding ground or meeting people half way here.

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whats going on with you?

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For the most part, it's technicalities I am correcting here:

• Statements that are not supported by the statistics (such as the game being in decline or dying or maintenance mode). If the statistics support it then I won't dispute it.
• Comments that are rude to the developers or anyone at all, or call them lazy. There is really no need for that.
• Comments where I know the question has been answered in an interview or broadcast sometime within the last 10 years and I recall their answer, so I provide it.
• Comments where there is a history that explains why it is the case, and I know the history but the poster might not (ie. if they joined the game in Stormblood, Shadowbringers or later).
• Comments that say "there is no content", but the conversation later reveals they don't do the content that there is or any of the intended grinds for mounts, minions or glam. In this case, it is perfectly fair to say "I don't like the content and I don't find it fun" or "I'm not interested in high-end raids", but instead people often say "there is no content" instead which is technically incorrect.
• There are plenty of comments that are fine and I just skip past them or upvote them.