Could we please disconnect Submarines/Airship workshops from Housing?

Proper FCs are in competition with Shell/sub/RMT FCs that buy up housing plots for the Submarine gil output. Why are the workshops tied to housing in the first place? They don't interact with the Housing decoration system, and it prevents FCs who aren't able to own a plot from interacting with the system at all.

Please, it would be great if the FC Submarine/Airship workshop was moved to the Grand Company kiosk in their respective major cities, possibly accessed via the same door used for GC Squadrons (or just an NPC standing there).
It'll allow all FCs access to the workshop, and discourage the practice of hoarding plots purely for the workshop.

On the Materia OCE datacenter, the lowest population server, it's FC wards (particularly in the starter cities), are practically completely full, especially the cheaper/small houses. Comparatively personal housing still has quite a few empty spots, with certain places like Zurvan having entire personal wards empty.
Materia used to be pretty empty for housing on most fronts, but I imagine opening it up for International travel/visiting encouraged RMT/Shell FCs to buy up property and give the gil to accounts on other (JP/NA/EU) servers.

Materia still doesn't have the 6 additional wards added a few years ago (25-30) open for purchasing, nor was the FC/Personal classification system reworked to be more open like the Dynamis worlds in 7.0. Likely due to some worlds still being very empty (see Zurvan personal plots), which will likely not fill up in the near future, though others are definitely full enough to justify unlocking the additional wards (see Sophia).
I want to say, 'hey, could we please unlock those wards on Materia, or make all wards free for all (both personal and FC) to help fill them up', but you know that a lot of those plots available for FCs will be brought up by Shell/RMT FCs for their submarine workshops.

https://i.imgur.com/diseu1h.png

https://i.imgur.com/bKshbEm.png

https://i.imgur.com/BNQTHiE.png

The ones above are obvious shells, but a lot more FC plots are owned by FCs with filler/nonsense names.

There's even Shell FCs that sit on more popular housing plots.. There's an issue with RMT involving FC housing, where people sell housing plots for real money, by transferring FC ownership. The submarine suggestion won't help this, but at least it might reduce the amount of shell FC owned plots.

Would be nice to have 'infinite' housing wards, though it isn't feasible depending on how wards are handled server side. But, given that Materia still hasn't received the 6 additional housing wards from years ago, I doubt any future new ones will be available to us, and it's likely they'll just be eaten up by Shell/RMT FCs anyways due to Materia's international hub usage allowing for easier RMT/gil transfer.

Somewhat fuelled by my small (myself and my siblings) FC losing a housing bid to a shell FC (they had numbered it), unlucky...

Ofc, it would be nice to have actual personal housing as well (private housing instance, which is what I though island sanctuary would turn into; if you maxed it out then you get a private housing plot on the island). My suggestion doesn't help with personal housing much at all, but with the upcoming housing changes, which are all very nice, it would be great if they could address plot availability (especially in regards to Materia becoming a hotbed for shell FCs using it for RMT/gil farming; yeah it's small population but it still sucks for the people who actually play here.)

EDIT: I just want to say, I'm happy that Materia allows for all players on JP/NA/EU to visit, I like that I can see friends from all over and, though I don't think by much, it somewhat helps the low population here (as it allows people to come and socialise/queue while preventing Materia's small population from bleeding out onto other servers.)
Our FC wards were pretty empty prior to this change, now they're mostly full on all worlds despite our low population (with personal wards on certain worlds being comparatively very empty). It sucks seeing the Housing situation being even more dominated by Shell/RMT FCs because Materia's international travel ability encourages this behaviour (transferring gil to accounts on NA/EU/JP, which you can't do elsewhere).
Please, as part of the housing reworks, disconnect the submarine/airship workshop from housing. There's no reason for it to be tied to housing, instead make it available to everyone via the GC kiosk in major cities.

You're going to get a lot of hate on here from the few people who do this and say its fine lol

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You're going to get a lot of hate on here from the few people who do this and say its fine lol

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Having the Submarine/Airship Workshop located at the GC kiosk will still allow all the gil farming/Shell FCs to function, and makes the workshop available to all FCs (hopefully helpful for FCs on very populated worlds). It just doesn't encourage them to take up plots that real FCs want to actually use.
It doesn't 'solve' the issue of people using Subs as gil farms, it just moves it further away from affecting regular players' enjoyment.
I guess whoever would be upset at proposing this change just enjoys hoarding plots away from regular players?

I've been wanting them to do this for years... I wouldn't hold my breath, though, because for whatever reason SE seem to be committed to the design of housing being required for the company workshop. I really hope they do disconnect them, though. It would probably at least free up a few houses for people and FCs who legitimately want to play with housing.

I would also like to play with the submarine feature, but in the FCs I am in for my main / sub characters these are being run almost exclusively by the FC owners or people who are high in rank within the FC.
Features like this need to be available to everyone, or be made unlockable somehow.

All the shell FCs the OP mentioned is disturbing though -- a single FC shouldn't be allowed to own multiple houses.

Or they can force a limit of housing on one account and on FCs.

Idk why they allow this, it should be reported as abuse and forced demolition after a certain amount of days. What's the point of implementing more wards of housing if 2 / 3 people can just buy up the wards anyway? Granted there is a lottery but not too hard to circumvent with enough entries.

Square needs to figure out how to break the loophole that allows FCs to own many houses.

I have discovered that someone owns 112 FC houses just simply for the gil.

I also have discovered someone took over an entire ward to just decorate every house to make it look like a "fitted" neighborhood.

Regardless of their reasons, it takes away from others in a MMO space. Even if the devs do some minor tweaks to this whole issue; it would help a lot.

Better get ready for the angry housing mafia to storm in and tell you how evil and wrong you are, or link you all the small cottages in the goblet you should go and buy so they can have the entire ward to themselves.

They should slash the amount of gil subs generate in half.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

They should slash the amount of gil subs generate in half.

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Wouldnt do anything. Half of 13M are still 6,5M. Thats just a minor dent for Sublords.
Even for the average player one FC with halved output is going to pay for all their stuff they need. Except maybe if they got a catgirl in Limsa to feed.

I mean look at those 2 lesser educated individuals. Still rocking the wrong information that 1 FC = multiple Houses where its still 1 FC = 1 House.

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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_Ebina

All the shell FCs the OP mentioned is disturbing though -- a single FC shouldn't be allowed to own multiple houses.

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Originally Posted by Gember

Square needs to figure out how to break the loophole that allows FCs to own many houses.

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Do you entrust them to have a qualified take on such kind of ideas?

Its just stupid or lets call it less unpolite just naive to think that those plots are magically going to be given up by those "Sublords".

Only solution will be that players shouldnt be lazy and sleeping on plots just for the sake of "its not a Large, Medium or the right spot" or on new Servers.
Because if the standard players arent acting, those who are interested in such systems will and soon enough the well of unwanted houses dried up too.

Daddy Yoshi wont be do anything.

I did a similar post years ago. All this is going to do is get you a forum ban with no one listening.

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Originally Posted by Ghost_of_Ebina

I would also like to play with the submarine feature, but in the FCs I am in for my main / sub characters these are being run almost exclusively by the FC owners or people who are high in rank within the FC.
Features like this need to be available to everyone, or be made unlockable somehow.

All the shell FCs the OP mentioned is disturbing though -- a single FC shouldn't be allowed to own multiple houses.

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Theres not really much to play with regarding the subs you select the best destination and send the sub off, it's just a glorified retainer. I think the problem is it's a cashflow that only a select few can get there hands on and a select few are really taking the p*** with it. In our FC we use the gil that it makes to buy FC members houses, rooms and for competitions.

Having the Submarine/Airship Workshop located at the GC kiosk would be nice.

There could be some ways to access it:
- a small Portal, Door, Teleport House Deco to the GC Kiosk Workshop
- access from Apartments which can bought for 500.000 Gil if you are in an FC or Owner of the FC
I would give up my House if the Workshop would be detached from Houses. And the Workshop should be permant as long as you have your FC or your FC Leader don't give up the Workshop. There should be no pressure to login to keep your FC Workshop, even when you deciede to leave the Game for a while. Starting by 0 again cause you had to take a break is bad enough.

I would like to see them detached for a few reasons.

Firstly, it does encourage multi-plot ownership where feasible for the person to do.

Secondly, housing is ultimately a finite resource, regardless of whether plots are free - It's still finite, and this locks actual in-game systems behind a finite resource which is a very jumpy way of doing it. Most especially for FCs where there is genuine FC benefit, e.g., production of Grade 3 FC buffs.

I don't think the problem would be as bad if the rewards weren't effectively straight Gil through the salvaged accessories, as this is essentially just injecting absurd amounts of Gil into the game. The problem was the same as Coffee Biscuits back then, now granted, I do think Coffee Biscuits are somewhat worse, but I don't think this should detract from the issue.

We can go round-and-round on these points, but regardless of whether you think "Ah, well SE has had plenty of chances to nerf it, so they must see it as OK, therefore, it is OK and there is no problem." - SE seeing a problem, and a problem actually existing are two entirely different things. There are plenty of things in this game which are an issue which SE has for a long time turned around and gone "Nah, it's OK".

Subs are fine, alone they dont make as much as folks believe, what is killing things is being able to own multiple houses and FCs through alts, THIS is what really needs to be regulated.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Subs are fine, alone they dont make as much as folks believe, what is killing things is being able to own multiple houses and FCs through alts, THIS is what really needs to be regulated.

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Most of the multiple house owners have multiple service accounts; the others are FCs working together with each member owning a shell FC. How should SE regulate that? It's perfectly within the rules of 1 personal and 1 fc house per service account per server. You also can't restrict shell FCs without restricting legitimate FCs that only have a few members.

I think that allowing creation of a workshop in a place outside of housing would help at least a little. Perhaps the shell FCs who own houses already wouldn't give them up, but it would at least be likely to prevent new shell FCs from buying housing just for submarines.

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

Subs are fine, alone they dont make as much as folks believe, what is killing things is being able to own multiple houses and FCs through alts, THIS is what really needs to be regulated.

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Subs make between 200k - 1mill every couple of days. So yes that's pretty decent for a "retainer" lol

Uncouple all the big moneymakers from being housing exclusive like gardening, airships, and subs. Just encourages people to hoard houses and makes FCs into something you make for yourself to harvest free gil with.

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Originally Posted by Yodada

Wouldnt do anything. Half of 13M are still 6,5M. Thats just a minor dent for Sublords.
Even for the average player one FC with halved output is going to pay for all their stuff they need. Except maybe if they got a catgirl in Limsa to feed.

I mean look at those 2 lesser educated individuals. Still rocking the wrong information that 1 FC = multiple Houses where its still 1 FC = 1 House.




Do you entrust them to have a qualified take on such kind of ideas?

Its just stupid or lets call it less unpolite just naive to think that those plots are magically going to be given up by those "Sublords".

Only solution will be that players shouldnt be lazy and sleeping on plots just for the sake of "its not a Large, Medium or the right spot" or on new Servers.
Because if the standard players arent acting, those who are interested in such systems will and soon enough the well of unwanted houses dried up too.

Daddy Yoshi wont be do anything.

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https://c.tenor.com/J78wFit1EeQAAAAC/tenor.gif

This is what the sublords look like to me. Take their houses away by force. The excuses they make for why they should have 30+ houses are a highly amusing to watch.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You're going to get a lot of hate on here from the few people who do this and say its fine lol

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Like clockwork, this slow quiet place gets brigaded by people from submarine discords who pull up to downplay the gil they print from these glorified retainers.

Should make it so all types of housing can have them.

This will be a bit of a tricky situation.

The Housing Mafians are directly working with the Market Board Mafians that control most of the prices on the market board across the US Servers (I'm not sure of the JP and EURO servers), I remember a time when mounts were not so ridiculously expensive as one example.

If you were to cut off the head of the Hydra then yes it will get the Housing Market much more stable, but then you have to contend with thousands+ more workshops causing much more inflow of gil into the Market board. The Market Board Mafians will try to even maximize more profit and raise the prices on everything much more higher as revenge against you all for fragmenting their FC Empires and purely of out absolute greed.

I know these Empire FCs have been laughing at players for years now for daring to step up against them, and also knowing the Developers have not done much to remedy the problem. They're taking advantage of the situation before things could turn around against them.

My other concern is if these Empire FCs could be linked to things outside of the game doing very suspicious activities.

My solution combined with yours:

Yes lets separate the Workshops, but with some additional tweaks:

Make Housing as Instance like other MMOs.

Rework how mounts are obtained; no longer through the market board but rather through other means that is player friendly. This will financially bankrupt some of the FC Empires that rely on that particular market and bring the cost of gil down across the board because they would not be able to justify raising prices on other items that are much easier to obtain compared to mounts.

Do the same for the Minions as well (I've seen those prices, and its asinine).

By removing the hardest to get items out of the equation and into Player Friendly alternatives you deny the FC Empires & Market Mafians their gil and power, and yes I understand this can hurt the little guys but we gotta think of the bigger picture.


I could say completely re-work the Market Board, but idk what you can possibly do with that for the moment.

I couldnt care less about Sublords. Only about the stupidity of the Forums and the miss information idiots like the quoted ones are spreading.

I am all in for instanced housing. But it wont happen.

Cause Daddy P wants his precious neighbourhood. What do you think is the biggest incentive for Square to keep subs running and
spreading the population across all Worlds? I give you a free hint it starts with H- and ends with -ousing. But if the playerbase still
wants to play the Three wise monkeys just go ahead and suggest BS solutions they dont care for.

Give all players submarine and airship access through the Squadron.

Sure, as long as you're fine with them either permanently bricking the gil generation from workshops (and incidentally bricking the value of everything that comes from subs in the process as gil fleets convert to rare fleets to extract what value remains), or bricking the shattered remnants of the gil economy itself entirely within a year of it happening because you've now reduced the barrier to entry for sublording to nothing.

You're only going to get one result or the other. There really is no middle ground here, no matter how much you might think there is. No fine tweak is going to find a nice middle path. *Something* is going to die in the process.

I support your efforts, OP, but keep in mind that your idea has been proposed numerous times on the official forums over the years. I'm sure the dev team is well aware that players want easier access to the workshop system, but, they have not been willing to make the changes requested so far. It never hurts to keep trying, though.

Something needs to be done. Trying to get FC housing for a new FC is hell, and we're locked out of Airships and Subs until we get it. Not to mention it's terrible for the common player anyway. For every FC that shares the bounty of the Airships and Submarines there's 10 where the goods received are for the FC lead only. Add that in with so many housing items constantly being made requiring drops that can only be obtained through Subs and such it's getting a bit ridiculous.

I don't think SE cares about FCs in general, anyway. They increased them to Rank 30 but then offered no benefits for it after 20 and there is nothing to buy with credits except buffs and sub fuel. The only new stuff that gets added to the workshops are more housing exteriors.
Ships and Subs should be available to all FCs, although I am not sure how they would implement that.

And to answer about subs not making a lot of money. We have 3 subs (the 4th just for exploration and items we want to use) just going out getting the jewelry and we make 200-600k A DAY just doing that so sub farms are pretty lucrative.

The only issue with this is that RMT would *explode* if they did it like this because then anyone could make an army of thousands of bots and abuse the FC system. I agree that it's a serious problem that people are allowed to own so many fc's and hoard all the limited housing plots, but I can also see why this wouldn't be the right solution unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by All_Nonsense

The only issue with this is that RMT would *explode* if they did it like this because then anyone could make an army of thousands of bots and abuse the FC system. I agree that it's a serious problem that people are allowed to own so many fc's and hoard all the limited housing plots, but I can also see why this wouldn't be the right solution unfortunately.

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Submarines are already heavily used to supply gil RMT since they make essentially infinite gil if you have multiple FC houses set up with subs. I don't see how this would change anything other than average players would have access to the money printers that right now only a select few can get.

It's probably more of a factor than it used to be on a small scale, but it's certainly far from a heavy part of the supply, nor is there any reason to think it would become so in the future. RMT is a pure tangential boogeyman when it comes to this - high-volume RMT providers simply aren't ever going stake the profitability of the operation on things that take months to spin up and have capital costs when botting is comparatively free.

The economic consequences would be bloody for a much different set of reasons.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Submarines are already heavily used to supply gil RMT since they make essentially infinite gil if you have multiple FC houses set up with subs. I don't see how this would change anything other than average players would have access to the money printers that right now only a select few can get.

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I don't think you're catching what I'm throwing. I'll elaborate some:

Right now the limiting factor for these gil printer RMT folks is the fact that there is a limited amount of player housing. If they cannot get the houses on their bot accounts, they cannot produce gil. ok, so now that we've established that, I want you to envision what these same people would be capable of should you remove this limiting factor. We're talking tens of thousands of bots over time absolutely nuking the gil supply and causing a runaway effect by introducing an absurd quantity to the system. This is an actual subject of study for every MMO btw - currency inflation management. They very sneakily find ways to introduce systems to combat it (gil mounts, vendors, TP costs, etc) but ultimately their greatest threat is the devaluation of this currency, as it's used to incentivize players to do things in the game that increases their playtime/engagement.

So, the "infinite gil" you're proposing having already been in place is a misnomer. Infinite gil isn't quite the problem, it's the rate at which this infinite gil is introduced into the system versus how quickly it can be removed from the system. If you make submersibles tied to only the ownership of an FC, you will have an unbelievable problem with gil supply immediately, and ironically most of it will come from players who actually play the game and go off to make their own 1 person FC's to take advantage of it.

I'm sure everyone who even opens this thread does so because they feel indignant about the submersible system and feel as though an injustice has been done to them through the unfair implementation of it. That's fine. I'm not arguing that there doesn't need to be retroactive changes to the ToS to stop the gil botters from stealing all the housing and reducing the player experience for all of us. I'm arguing that the solution proposed will not work, that feedback like that is going to be ignored by the dev team for my reasons listed above, and that it will cause the devs to ignore the central issue - Player housing needs to be limited per account and not per character.

It's so much more than "the rmt will do it anyway" you have to look at the reasons *why* things are still the way they are and use deductive reasoning from there. At that point you can work out a better solution and maybe in 12.0 Yoshi P will finally have his team address it. Other than that we gotta find a way to make our peace with the way the systems are and deal w/ it. It's not ideal.

All I'm seeing here is excuses about why you think you should get a house and features that effectively print money, but you think me and other posters are too irresponsible to also have it.

I don't like that answer, it sucks. I'm sure you abuse this system heavy to run subs and you think others shouldn't have what you have. I hate this "screw you got mine" mentality. You're completely unconcerned with the current inflation of a large number of single person FCs making gil out of thin air to put into the economy or the RMT, it only becomes a problem when people other than you get access to it.

It's just so blatant. That post called it, any time you ask for more fair rules around housing or subs, people from discords who have multiple houses and shell FCs come out of the woodwork to write essays defending how things are now and talk down to everyone.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

All I'm seeing here is excuses about why you think you should get a house and features that effectively print money, but you think me and other posters are too irresponsible to also have it.

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I'm not sure where this falsely accusatory and pointed response came from but it's unfortunate that this is the perspective you have on anyone who would rationally explain their concerns with your point of view. I even expressed how I think the system is problematic - aligning my interests with yours while disagreeing with the solution you believe will solve the aforementioned problem. Coming at me with ad hominem statements or false accusations about my intent regarding the statements I've made (which I've clearly expressed) is really counterproductive to the point of having this discussion in the first place. In short, I have not been uncivil to you and I ask for the same courtesy in exchange.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I'm sure you abuse this system heavy to run subs and you think others shouldn't have what you have.

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This is not great. Please do not make a habit of speaking to people like this. Making false claims that I abuse game systems in violation of the ToS based on a disagreement of opinion is frankly absurd. I understand that you're upset, but it helps no one to behave in this manner. I guess that's /thread for me