Hi there, i just wanted to leave a small list of my suggested changes for each of the Phys ranged, i play all three and have varying thoughts but other than big reworks I think some of these could be (relatively) simple changes for each.
Bard
Empyreal Arrow:
This needs an extra charge to give more wiggle room for where it may land in a phase—primarily Wanderers Minuet. If we had two charges, this would also help alleviate drift on the skill.
The Wanderer's Minuet:
I'd like to see this work similar to Monks Chakra gauge where it can store the over-capped Chakra, In this case, store the over-capped Repertoire Stacks so none of the stacks go wasted. (Especially if you have Empyreal Arrow coming off cooldown right as a potential tick happens)
Barrage/Resonant Arrow:
I think the cooldown should be reduced to 60 Seconds so that there is more for Bard to do during the one minute. So during our one minute, we would have our Apex Arrow combo and Barrage Combo during Mages Ballad.
Repelling Shot:
I'd personally like to see this replaced with a gap closer instead of a gap opener (maybe a Grappling hook like how a certain boss moves around the fight in Endwalker Alliance raids.
Machinist
Flamethrower:
This skill would benefit from a few small tweaks:
- Show in Limited Effects display so Tanks can see that Machinist is using flamethrower. (I know that maybe there would be a visibility issue with everyone else so maybe just the next one ->)
- Let us slow-move while using this so we can reorient ourselves to enemy mob packs.
- A stacking dot for how long we keep the flamethrower on enemies would help amp up the damage.
Autocrossbow:
Have this regen our uses of Double Check and Checkmate (Gauss Round and Ricochet) just like how Blazing Shot(Heat Blast) does for a single target.
Automaton Queen:
Ideally, I'd like a separate Robot that would work for AOE (Automaton King?) but realistically I'd like to see Autmaton Queens final two moves (Pile bunker and Crowned Collider be AOE so there is use for battery gauge in AOE
Phys Ranged Skill Feedback
Printable View
-
08-18-2024, 01:39 PMRoarmiakaPhys Ranged Skill Feedback
-
08-18-2024, 01:40 PMRoarmiaka
Dancer
Tillana
The +50 gauge buff in Dawntrail made this a guaranteed overcap on Espirit Gauge during two minute and openers. I'd like to see Dance of the Dawn removed from Technical Step and add to Tillana "Dance of the Dawn Ready" and remove the +50 Gauge buff.
Improvisation
There is unfortunately rarely a good use for this in almost any fight, I'd Like this to either be an instant Heal and Shields or combine the effects with the PVP skill Honing Dance, and have it do damage and Heal over time.
Curing Waltz
A small but helpful change would be to increase this from 3y to 5y.
Closed Position
I'd like to see this be a one button click on and off ability, Right now it is a bit of a hassle to switch partners mid-combat, and would like to see it be streamlined so I can click on another party member and set partner without having to end the Closed Position first on my original partner. The use-case for this is if my original partner died and so i can buff an alive and or unweakened party member without having to stop my rotation mid flow.
Fan Dance IV
Make this consistent with the other Fan dances and have its range increased from 15y to 25 (I noticed that this ability in the job guide is listed as a conal, i have never noticed this in my time playing but if it could be changed to a line to increase the distance i think this would be good trade off) -
08-18-2024, 02:05 PMSupersnow845
I strongly oppose charges to emperyal arrow. BRD’s proc organisation system is explicitly designed around emperyal arrow being the soft controller for your proc order because you either spend it or drift it
Soft control over other skills is something we don’t see much of in this game and I don’t want to lose it on BRD -
08-18-2024, 02:15 PMRoarmiakaI guess I'm not sure I understand because drifting Empyeral Arrow is always a dps loss, and the only times you'd ever realistically think about its procs is during Wanderers. If anything the extra charge adds more decisions for the Bard to be able to wait for that extra Repertoire stack in Wanderers to get the full Pitch PerfectQuote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
-
08-18-2024, 02:22 PMSupersnow845Yes so you never want to drift emperyal arrow, which means all other procs have to be built around it because there is no flexibility, so it’s the top of your proc order, if it’s free use it, nothing is more important than not drifting it, all other procs and CD’s BRD has then flow from thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Roarmiaka
Without that core system of always having emperyal arrow as the number 1 most important proc then BRD goes from a defined proc order job to basically just press whatever oGCD lights up whenever you want -
08-18-2024, 03:24 PMmallleableWith how BRD is now, it's not a matter of player 'skill' to not drift Empyreal Arrow -- at certain speeds, and how Army's Paeon works, your GCD likely run into it forcing you to either clip your GCD or drift Empyreal Arrow. It's just toxic, and janky at this point. It needs charges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
-
08-18-2024, 05:58 PMValence
Regarding the OP:
- I do agree with Empyreal Arrow and it's also been suggested multiple times by the most knowledgeable people on the job's theorycrafting as well.
- Minuet: I do not agree with this change because it would remove proc management when it comes to Pitch Perfect. Currently the whole optimization you can do is to spend them at 2 charges before an Empyreal Arrow in order to prevent overcap. If you do this, you should not overcap in the current state of the job, which means the only reason to get a Chakra-like system would be to remove this optimization caused by EA. Personally I think it would be a shame to lose it in exchange for nothing in terms of gameplay. It's what makes Minuet currently a step above Ballad in terms of engagement for me.
- Resonant: agreed, and BRD already has other 2 minutes nukes, notably Radiant Encore.
- Repelling: in essence I do agree that this ability is absolutely useless and it's a meme that I sometimes use just to feel alive. It could need replacement or just removal. I had a wild idea and wanted to make it proc Resonant actually so you'd actually have to use it and be considerate of when and where, but they'll never do that ofc.
- Flamethrower definitely needs help. Of the many solutions offered: generating heat, or consuming heat for way higher potency, or adding stacks like in its old pvp form where the longer you keep it active the higher the damage, or interacting with bioblaster by consuming all bio charges for a big effect. There is many things they could do to make this skill more interesting, and actually useful.
- ACB: a common suggestion yeah.
- Battery: I actually expected Collider to be an AoE finisher move when I first saw MCH in the Endwalker job trailer, but alas... It would definitely help if they gave it an AoE effect. A king would be neat but I assume it would require a lot of resources to implement, so a good bandaid imo would just be to give us the ability to summon Bishop, and much like in pvp, it would do AoE damage and provide a pulsing shield on everybody inside. Much like Queen, Bishop would consume battery as well.
The current problem with EA is that it directly conflicts with the rigid, chaotic mess that is BRD's GCD segmentation structure. See here for more details. Of course they could fix the mess to begin with, but that's much heavier work than just giving a second charge to the ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
I don't necessarily agree that the change would be detrimental to proc management since instead of consuming PP early you'd delay EA in order to accommodate the procs. In both cases you'd have to manage them. -
08-18-2024, 08:29 PMRamiee
Huge qol improvement for dancer would to be removing finishing move. Yep really wanted to have the dance mini game removed every other dance such fun.
-
08-18-2024, 11:45 PMConnor
- Empyreal Arrow has been requested to have charges added quite frequently so adding charges would be appreciated but a lot of Bards. Especially (as mentioned above) with the rigidity of Bard’s song rotation and cool-down alignment
- I don’t play Monk so I’m unsure how the Chakra system even works tbh lol. That said, Minuet is already Bard’s strongest and most valuable song, so I can’t help but think ‘do we really need to fix it if it ain’t broken?’
- Honestly I’d prefer if they just replaced Repelling Shot with a new skills. I don’t really see any benefit to Bards having a gap closer (doesn’t make much sense either for a Poet to start flying around with grappling hooks lol). As much as I’d like to say to turn into a new support skill, Repelling Shots is more for Archer not Bard, so it’d be weird if they started pulling out instruments at level 15 lol.
- Lastly I’d definitely support using Resonant Shot more frequently. Maybe it could be tied to Paeon since there’s still essentially nothing whatsoever going on during that phase lol. Like, during Paeon your Refulgent procs can activate Resonant, or maybe once you max Repetoire it becomes available or something -
08-19-2024, 01:41 AMXieldras
I'm mixed about Repelling Shot, as I do use it frequently for repositioning. It does need something else (they had removed its damage back in Stormblood), but the distance is perfect for jumping out of AOEs.
I don't agree on a gap closer because rDPS is, well, super mobile. Just run in. Plus I believe there are already a sizeable amount of classes that do have this skill/spell, and there is no need to water down its uniqueness by adding more copies of it.
I don't see the use in Empyreal getting charges since they already proc often in my opinion, but I don't have an opinion on it other than that. -
08-19-2024, 01:52 AMConnorI don’t think it’s about the frequency of uses as much as it is about cool-down alignment being so rigid for Bards that Empyreal Arrow charges would add some flexibility to the job because drifting etc wouldn’t cause as much of a loss. I think? Post above explains it much better lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Xieldras
-
08-19-2024, 03:22 AMdspguy
Flamethrower, as a capstone skill, really needs something to improve it. It's usage right now is limited to trash pulls where Air Anchor and Chainsaw have a cooldown greater than 10s and we don't have ricochet/gauss rounds to burn before hypercharge. And its damage increase over just using scattergun is questionable.
Have it accrue heat. Have it spend heat to increase its damage. Increase its base damage. It really is a terrible ability right now. Every expansion, I'm surprised it wasn't changed or removed. -
08-19-2024, 03:25 AMwildvenonatI personally like Improvisation, but otherwise agree on everything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarmiaka
I believe though that BRD also needs access to a terrible song without a notable cooldown so that BRD can merely be pwned upon death rather than having its entire rotation blown to shreds. It should be strictly worse than not having died, to keep it feeling interestingly terrible when you mess up, but IMO dying as bard feels like you just can't really play for ages. Sad trombone. Ninja and BLM have notoriously punishing rotations, but they're still more adaptable upon a death than BRD. -
08-19-2024, 03:52 AMStasya..... you can't control rng of procs and it's annoying to use, begging for next 3s song don't proc, are you SE intern btw?Quote:
Originally Posted by Supersnow845
-
08-19-2024, 08:58 PMNaryorilThis would need to be combined with potency buffs of some skills, because as is, this change would simply amount to removing the +50 gauge without any compensation whatsoever. The better solution would do what they did for other classes: don't give +50 gauge, but give a buff that lets you use the gauge skill for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roarmiaka
-
08-26-2024, 06:48 AMRika007
I don't play enough MCH to comment on those changes, all I would like to see for them is there AOE rotation get the same love and care that their single target did. Don't care how they do it, but good god it's the worst AOE rotation in the game and is an insta no play for me in dungeons and field map styled content where mobs exist for that reason alone.
The Bard and MCH notes I can definitely comment on though:
-EA charges. Yes. A thousand times yes. Like this is the number one that every Bard is asking for and it should be a no brainer. And with how bad ranged damage in general is there shouldn't even be need for a compensation nerf. Just throw it on and call it a day. The constant choice between clipping aGCD and letting it drift is easily the WORST part of the job and its a huge shame because this is the most playable and fun BRD has been since Stormblood, DT BRD has really shown some good care in bringing the job back to prominence after two expansions of negelct.
-WM changes. I feel back and forth on this. On one hand it is good skill expression. On the other hand it is REALLY annoying to have that proc happen RIGHT when you need to use EA. And using a 2 proc PP just really doesn't feel satisfying. Not sure on this one. I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I also would like to something different.
-Barrage CD cut in half. Yep. Right there with the change to EA, this is a big need. Add some more stuff to do in the downtime of the jobs 1 min. Give it some more power outside of sidewinder in that moment. Especially since RA is the weakest of the burst window GCD's it doesn't hurt to have it duplicated so we get more uses out of it (plus i mean it also just looks damn cool, I wanna see it used more often).
-Repelling: Yeah. Personally I don't care if they just give Bard their own version of En Avant, just dont give them a bunch of charges, and also do the same for MCH. Too many jobs have too many movement tools at this point, and these jobs mobility are supposed to be a strong point. Once you are the odd man out and everyone else has something that you don't, it ceases to be "unique" and instead becomes a weakness. All the casters and even some of the healers have stronger mobility options now, to go along with every single melee. Give the same to BRD and MCH, or start taking it away from those jobs (which spoilers, is never gonna happen).
-I also personally would ask for the ability to stack two instances of Hawks Eye, but that is more of a pet peeve want. A Bane effect on Iron Jaws or sidewinder (if there is a concern about BRD getting to strong in AOE) would also be really nice. But above all there needs to be a fix for songs rigid alignment issues, so that deaths and small rotation gaffes can be fixed. Hell even if its just a cooldown change that is enough to allow for fixing the song flow but not enough for any cheesiness, I will take it. But that should be right up there with second charge of EA in importance.
For Dancer:
-Tilana: Yeah this is really annoying and has messed up the flow of Dancer. And flow is really all Dancer has. Especially with having so many "so and so ready" traits on other jobs to insure no over-capping happens, this really is just a bizarre change. Make it Dance of the Dawn ready at the bare minimum, but also the extra 50 espirit charge should really be looked at overall.
-Improv: Yeah I'd really like to have this ability reworked entirely. sure you can weave it for a weaker version, and I do, but that doesn't make it satisfying to do. Change it up. Maybe make it so it's not a channel and is instead is a buff that allows you to weave in oGCDs to gain stacks so that you can then use it's full power. As of now its full power can only be used in downtime moments and downtime moments already are frustrating as is, so the dev team doesn't put them in often. -
08-26-2024, 09:54 AMRaikai
I honestly think if Improv remains as it is, the shield portion should be much bigger. Currently is such a puny shield that even in a rare downtime moment, it makes almost no difference.
I'd even give up that shield for a slightly stronger regen effect, since that's the actual usefulness of the action. -
08-26-2024, 11:07 AMEchoingPulse
Being a Bard main, it breaks my heart when I am 6th on the aggro chart and sometimes 7th under certain Healers, and this is while I'm decked in current raid gear. I love my bard to death, and nothing will change that love. I do wish they got a damage boost across the board to keep up.
-
08-27-2024, 05:06 AMValence
( The points I'm not replying means I agree with! )
I'm not totally sure why people keep asking for BRD and MCH to get movement tools. What for beyond pure button bloat? I could be tempted to agree if an actual attack move was locked behind them (like DNC in pvp, etc), but otherwise, this makes little sense. For DNC it used to make sense in ShB but now that they removed the melee attacks from the single target burst... I guess it still makes sense for AoE? Either way, i'd rather them fix things that are actually important than trying to give mobility tools to a role that literally doesn't need any just for the sake of it. And I don't want to see a mobility tool used as an excuse to further nerf the role's damage to the ground (I know we're already in the grave but still).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rika007
I would hate that change. This is literally what killed all of DNC priority system around Flourish when they introduced different proc buffs from Flourish so that they wouldn't overwrite the ones from the normal combo. On top of it, the only reason you're asking for Hawk's Eye stacking I assume is not to overwrite a RA proc with Barrage, and introducing that change would remove triage and priority gameplay during the burst where it's literally the only place there is any remaining on BRD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rika007
If your concern is that it makes Barrage drift over time, I do agree and over very long fights with absolutely shitty luck, it could end up out of burst (personally never happened to me yet but who knows...). If that's the concern, then I'd rather them to reduce the recast instead. Skill's still way too valuable to use outside of bursts anyway. -
08-28-2024, 12:11 AMRika007Because when it was only Dancer doing it it's fine. But it's not only Dancer. It's nearly every job in the game now. Save AST and SCH, every other job has engage tools or flat out movement tools to make hectic moments easier. If it was JUST dancer that was flying around, then sure whatever. But now Picto is topping dps charts with a go anywhere button every 20 seconds. A well played Black Mage is unironically more mobile then both Bard and Mch. Hell even WHM has a f this I'm out button. Every Melee has a disengage tool. Sage can go to whomever and wherever they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valence
This is what I mean by they are the odd ones out. And honestly the low damage IMO makes it even more of a reason they should have them. Mobility is supposed to be part of the reason we are paying that stupid ranged tax. MCH and BRD should not feel like they are less mobile then classes that are doing way more damage.
Nah they already fixed the RA Barrage proc overwrite issue. Barrage now has it's own buff that grants a use of RA that will get used before Hawks Eye gets used. So if your worried about that killing Bard? Yeah that's already been done.Quote:
I would hate that change. This is literally what killed all of DNC priority system around Flourish when they introduced different proc buffs from Flourish so that they wouldn't overwrite the ones from the normal combo. On top of it, the only reason you're asking for Hawk's Eye stacking I assume is not to overwrite a RA proc with Barrage, and introducing that change would remove triage and priority gameplay during the burst where it's literally the only place there is any remaining on BRD.
If your concern is that it makes Barrage drift over time, I do agree and over very long fights with absolutely shitty luck, it could end up out of burst (personally never happened to me yet but who knows...). If that's the concern, then I'd rather them to reduce the recast instead. Skill's still way too valuable to use outside of bursts anyway.
I purely only want it for two reasons:
1) the odd timings that come up with Iron Jaws sometimes that causes you to need to refresh when you already have an RA proc and also in the opener when you have to setup dots. I personally hated that they put RA procs on Iron Jaws and the bite abilities to start with, but if they are gonna keep it that way I'd like the ability to mitigate that myself. I know I can just do the refresh a GCD before, but that is just not as satisfying as literally waiting till the absolute last second to use IJ and refreshing dots RIGHT as they are about to fall off.
2) I like the idea of being able to stack up RA procs for burst windows. Even if it's only two. Pressing RA is more fun then pressing BA. This has been mitigated a bit by now having Resonant Arrow and Radiant Encore, so burst windows aren't nearly as monotonous as they were on Bard during the awful ShB and EW dark times, but it would just feel better to know near the end of AP that I need to build a stack or two so I can really make my burst hit it's hardest. -
08-28-2024, 09:10 PMValenceI just don't like fixing a problem by dipping even more into said problem... And then people complain about homogenization. But I mean, at this point the next job rework is bound for 8.0 anyway and I've stopped caring that much since nobody knows what it will entail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rika007
That completely flew under my radar, I have yet to level BRD to 100 (I'm really burnt out on the job, sadface). Well if anything it makes me want even less to do it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rika007
I won't deny that the proc rates they have added (in EW? ShB?) on dots and IJs is one of the dumbest things they've done for BRD. Especially for openers. At that point I just removed that from my mind and even if I have a RA proc up already, I use IJs (or dots) and if the 35% procs up and overwrites, then so be it. Because to be frank the IJs snapshot refresh has so much wiggleroom anyway, and it gets absolute precedence.