If Dark Knight was good..

I am just leaving this here

https://youtu.be/t2h3Uxj7nNg?si=5_vmqdg1MRkEdv_O

Dark Knight Rework ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6dV4ZUXMFM

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Dark Knight Rework ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6dV4ZUXMFM

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Hillarious video literally just PLD.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Dark Knight Rework ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6dV4ZUXMFM

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I'm literally just going to quote myself here.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Just finished Xeno's video on how he would fix it.

Since this can never be stressed enough...

Do not remove the mp cost of tbn and increase the cd to 25s

Do not remove the mp cost of tbn and increase the cd to 25

Do not remove the mp cost of tbn and increase the cd to 25

DO NOT HOMOGENIZE IT TO BE THE EXACT SAME AS THE OTHER SHORT CD'S.

If you have absolutely NO intention of making the offensive kit with active MP management/resource intensive. Leave TBN alone.

We don't need mindless sustain just tacked onto abilities in our kit. We have not one, but 3 resources available for you to use to make it more interesting. MP, Blood Gauge, Darkside if it even remains a timer.

If you are going to rework Dark Knight, actually put some thought and care into it.

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I'm also going to add on to not make abyssal drain holy circle/spirit mark 2. I want Dark Knight to be Dark Knight not an amalgamation of the other tanks.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

I want Dark Knight to be Dark Knight not an amalgamation of the other tanks.

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I want Dark Knight to not be trash, TBN is the most problematic ability in the entire job.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

I want Dark Knight to not be trash, TBN is the most problematic ability in the entire job.

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Yep youre right, remove TBN and put a shield on Oblation and give it at level 70. Tanks clearly can't have anything unique anymore or any rewards for good mitigation, just do your 1-2-3 combo and spender forever.

Dark knight is such a dead job

I don't know what is the solution but what I want is to NOT HOMOGENIZE the job

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Dark Knight Rework ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6dV4ZUXMFM

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At this point let Paladin wears a greatsword and call it a day..

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Originally Posted by Arohk

I want Dark Knight to not be trash, TBN is the most problematic ability in the entire job.

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TBN is fine. The problem with DRK it's by far the worst designed tank bar its defensive toolkit. Bar healers it has by far the most boring burst downtime of any job in the game. Nothing about its offensive toolkit is coherent and it's completely uninspired.

DRK at most needs 10% phys mit on Dark Mind, 5% phys mit on Dark Missionary, and Abyssal Drain either needs to be reduced to a 30s CD or reverted to an MP cost, that's it for the defensive toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Yep youre right, remove TBN and put a shield on Oblation and give it at level 70. Tanks clearly can't have anything unique anymore or any rewards for good mitigation, just do your 1-2-3 combo and spender forever.

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TBN is not mitigation, it is a shield.
You can see that every time you have a Dark knight as a Tank in a dungeon, that he takes a lot more damage than any other Tank.

YOu can use 2-3 TBN per trash pull, which equals to 75% health , compare that to Bloodwhetting which not only gives you 10% mitigation and heals you for ~300% health on each use.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

TBN is not mitigation, it is a shield.
You can see that every time you have a Dark knight as a Tank in a dungeon, hat he takes a lot mroe damage than any other Tank.

YOu can use 2-3 TBN per trash pull, which equals to 75% health , compare that to Bloodwhetting which not only gives you 10% mitigation and heals you for ~300% health on each use.

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The absolute last thing I want on DRK is a bloodwhetting equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

TBN is not mitigation, it is a shield.
You can see that every time you have a Dark knight as a Tank in a dungeon, that he takes a lot more damage than any other Tank.

YOu can use 2-3 TBN per trash pull, which equals to 75% health , compare that to Bloodwhetting which not only gives you 10% mitigation and heals you for ~300% health on each use.

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If only there was a way to fix this without changing TBN sadly its impossible to make AD into a spell, give phys resistance to Dark mind and missionary and Oblation stronger. Also using Bloodwhetting as an arguement for balance in dungeons of all things is very funny.
Wow DRK takes too much damage if only there was a person playing a role in the dungeon/raid you are doing whose main purpose is to deal with that, its a shame those dont exist i guess.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

The absolute last thing I want on DRK is a bloodwhetting equivalent.

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You have that, its called Abyssal Drain (but its trash), because you need to use it for DPS instead of keeping it for healing.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

TBN is not mitigation, it is a shield.

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Which is fine. It absorbs damage, like mitigation does. It also has the advantage of being able to block status effects because it's a shield and it's nice to use as a buffer for HP based healing like Essential Dignity because it allows the tank to remain low on HP without taking damage so that a good tank/healer combo can more easily maximize HP dependent healing gains.

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YOu can use 2-3 TBN per trash pull, which equals to 75% health , compare that to Bloodwhetting which not only gives you 10% mitigation and heals you for ~300% health on each use.

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The problem in this case isn't TBN.

Honestly I opened this thread half-expecting that meme picture of the futuristic city, that usually has a caption like ‘if there was no religion’ lol

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Originally Posted by Arohk

I want Dark Knight to not be trash, TBN is the most problematic ability in the entire job.

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The problem with DRK isn't TBN, it's literally everything else.

Dark Mind is archaic being completely useless against physical but also having no physical equivalent, Bloodspiller is the Fell Cleave from Wish .com and Delirium is Inner Release from Wish, Oblation is a meme, Dark Missionary is shared directly with GNB, CnS being tied to Abyssal is stupid, MP is just your Edge Gauge, ShB is shackled to the 2min meta, Living Shadow will ghost Disesteem if it has to move, Shadow Wall is shared with every other tank but I guess now it excogs?

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Originally Posted by Arohk

You have that, its called Abyssal Drain (but its trash), because you need to use it for DPS instead of keeping it for healing.

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I don't see Abyssal Drain granting mit and a shield. The burst window is very open to what order you press your oGCD's, you can absolutely time it better for healing, even if it overheals you.

I had to at least rub 2 brain cells together to properly DA+AD back in stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Arohk

TBN is not mitigation, it is a shield.
You can see that every time you have a Dark knight as a Tank in a dungeon, that he takes a lot more damage than any other Tank.

YOu can use 2-3 TBN per trash pull, which equals to 75% health , compare that to Bloodwhetting which not only gives you 10% mitigation and heals you for ~300% health on each use.

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This is the most logical summarization. And by the third usage, the pack is close enough to dead that the shield has expires before it breaks. Even pairing it with oblation doesn't help much. Honestly, oblation could just be another reprisal and tbn could cause a stun or slow. There's potential to make it better. GNBs 25s got a great buff. And I like the shadow wall change, but other things just need to be better

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Originally Posted by Arohk

Dark Knight Rework ideas:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6dV4ZUXMFM

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Really like Xeno, he's cool, his beard is cool and his head is cool, he's also an excellent raider but man, his ideas aren't always great.

I agree, XENO is really effing good at what he does and I like his content. I don't agree with him on the 25s thing, but he's probably thinking that square won't come up with anything better and that's the best option they have. and that might end up being true.
I personally think that tanks shouldn't have as much self healing as they do and that DRK is the ideal setup. I also think that all tanks should have to use more mana. GNB for cartridges and HOC and WAR definitely for bloodwhetting and for their other abilities. It got out of hand real fast. and DRK got left in the.. well, dark, I guess...

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Originally Posted by Arohk

You have that, its called Abyssal Drain (but its trash), because you need to use it for DPS instead of keeping it for healing.

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Which is why Abyssal Drain needs a buff and having its cooldown decoupled, and Bloodwhetting needs a nerf, TBN is fine.

TBN grants the stack upon taking any damage and not if it breaks.

Revolutionary fix

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Originally Posted by Oizen

TBN grants the stack upon taking any damage and not if it breaks.

Revolutionary fix

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The fix isn't quite that simple since that would amount to spamming TBN just for the damage while also keeping a shield up. There's no real cooldown on TBN since they hooked it into MP management which shouldn't be a thing at this point.

The best fix is just making TBN a cooldown that doesn't have an MP cost. We're so far past MP as a flexible resource in this design space for tanks given paladin basically just has a 10 use healing skill pool that recharges every combo. This does turn MP into unloading as much as possible with the dps OGCDs and It's probably okay if they got three uses of Edge of Shadow / Flood of Shadow to keep the buff up they manage, but it would probably be changed to charges and then nothing uses MP. (Which is what they should do as Carve and Split could be swapped to healing the tank instead of restoring MP).

I think the players would have to come to more of a consensus on what would actually be "good" before the job could be that.
In all the years that Dark Knight has existed in this game, I have never seen it come close to that kind of agreement being reached.
The only agreement that I have seen is that people want stuff changed to something else, but then again that's not really surprising since people generally tend to want something different or more than what they have.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Yep youre right, remove TBN and put a shield on Oblation and give it at level 70. Tanks clearly can't have anything unique anymore or any rewards for good mitigation, just do your 1-2-3 combo and spender forever.

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*chants* One of us!

Also...for those talking about Homogenization...Pssst. Delrium=Requistcat...

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

I think the players would have to come to more of a consensus on what would actually be "good" before the job could be that.
In all the years that Dark Knight has existed in this game, I have never seen it come close to that kind of agreement being reached.
The only agreement that I have seen is that people want stuff changed to something else, but then again that's not really surprising since people generally tend to want something different or more than what they have.

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It's not about consensus and never was. The developers have to decide what the job is supposed to be. Who knows why they cling so much to the MP end of it with the job but the changes they have been making are kind of at a snails pace like they are nervous to go the full mile on it.