Hunt rewards should be disabled for voyagers (imo)

I believe it to be unfair that players from other timezones can come to our DC (Materia) and spawn all of our S ranks while the majority of our population is asleep and will miss out on them completely, while we are deprived of the chance to do the same for other DCs. This has been happening consistently for a couple weeks now.

I believe rewards should be disabled, at least for S ranks, so voyagers are not incentivized to come and spawn all the S ranks they can while the native population with regular sleep/work schedules (not me) are unable to participate.

I understand there's nothing stopping natives from spawning them in the middle of the night as well, and it did happen occasionally, but in my opinion, it is a completely different thing when there's hundreds of voyagers running trains to pop every single S rank that has an open window while barely any of the native population is online.

Thank you for reading, let's have a civilized discussion. :):cool:

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Originally Posted by wayneker

I believe it to be unfair that players from other timezones can come to our DC (Materia) and spawn all of our S ranks while the majority of our population is asleep and will miss out on them completely, while we are deprived of the chance to do the same for other DCs. This has been happening consistently for a couple weeks now.

I believe rewards should be disabled, at least for S ranks, so voyagers are not incentivized to come and spawn all the S ranks they can while the native population with regular sleep/work schedules (not me) are unable to participate.

I understand there's nothing stopping natives from spawning them in the middle of the night as well, and it did happen occasionally, but in my opinion, it is a completely different thing when there's hundreds of voyagers running trains to pop every single S rank that has an open window while barely any of the native population is online.

Thank you for reading, let's have a civilized discussion. :):cool:

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Why not do the same to them?

i've felt this same way since DC travel launched, but it won't ever change. i think i actually made a post about this very same topic some years ago. it's very frustrating, especially if it's people from your own server doing all the work and someone from a different server doing the pulling. lol.

off-topic but i genuinely don't like DC travel at all and preferred when each server had their distinct people.

I disagree. I think they should rework the hunt system so it's not dumb.

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Originally Posted by Malia_Chan

Why not do the same to them?

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Materia players are currently unable to visit other DCs, but other DCs can visit Materia freely.

Even if it weren't the case, I would still be in support of disabling hunt rewards for voyagers, even if we could benefit from DC travel as well. I don't believe we should have to travel to other DCs and deal with the inconveniences that entails just to make up for the hardcore hunters who are happy to DC hop to min-max.

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Originally Posted by Malia_Chan

Why not do the same to them?

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they cant. travel is locked.

I'm not from Materia but it's stuff like this that stops me from moving there.

Some love hunts, some just can't bear even doing them.

Me, I just can't bother, and if I can't bother to start. I just won't bother period.

So clearly I'll be siding more with those who get their DC/Homeworlds Practically Raided. Same Applies to Dynamis in a slightly varying degree of extremity.

(Though I probably have the same thought process with World Fates. People just don't have time. and if they put time aside, how does that benefit the general player asides.)

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Sometimes I feel like the game needs a Timer or Content Delay for some of this stuff. so most can get the MSQ done in peace. and then once the timer/gate opens, they can start prepping for the meat of the game.

As it's always a race to not be behind.

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While I cannot say how it would be best to adjust the system overall. It would help to keep communities to establish their own PF/DF. if they are completely locked to their Worlds.

I'd almost jokingly say, until Savage or after.

As for DCs like Materia/Dynamis(or shadow and etc etc.) Having Free Trials, and new characters funneled there would help.

But as for the main point OP put out.

I'd say, getting rewards should be possible. But as most generally only care for the Achievement Tracker if they're that Hard about hunting them down.

Deny it, when offdc/world for a time. (if permanently is too much for some players wittle gaming the systems.)

[I mean, we got like 6 instances earlier on in DT for two zones. Even if reduced, you still got multiple instances. Gaming the options given to you, more than wanted/planned by the devs, is what gets things changed like it did for MSQ Roulette. (Which I supported/Asked for. It's Roulette. Not "Pick and choose or else I'd Dip/Ditch Sprouts.")]

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Originally Posted by wayneker

I believe it to be unfair that players from other timezones can come to our DC (Materia) and spawn all of our S ranks while the majority of our population is asleep and will miss out on them completely, while we are deprived of the chance to do the same for other DCs. This has been happening consistently for a couple weeks now.

I believe rewards should be disabled, at least for S ranks, so voyagers are not incentivized to come and spawn all the S ranks they can while the native population with regular sleep/work schedules (not me) are unable to participate.

I understand there's nothing stopping natives from spawning them in the middle of the night as well, and it did happen occasionally, but in my opinion, it is a completely different thing when there's hundreds of voyagers running trains to pop every single S rank that has an open window while barely any of the native population is online.

Thank you for reading, let's have a civilized discussion. :):cool:

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Only if we reduce the amount of s ranks needed from 1000 to 300 or something
the only reason these are remotely reasonable is because of world travel

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Only if we reduce the amount of s ranks needed from 1000 to 300 or something
the only reason these are remotely reasonable is because of world travel

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I think it's important to use correct terminology to avoid confusion here. I think world travel is great, it's DC travel I have issue with. And if you think it's rough getting 1000 kills without DC travel, imagine your DC couldn't use it but every other DC could and comes to kill 30-50%+ of your S ranks during your dead period lol.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

I disagree. I think they should rework the hunt system so it's not dumb.

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This.

The biggest issue has always been that the hunts are insanely undertuned for the average player turn-out even before cross-server/world was introduced.

It got even worse in EW/DT as the S ranks only have around 50% more HP then the release extreme bosses do when it was closer to 200% in ShB. A DT S rank has around 88 million vs. Valigarmanda EX's 61 million, whereas ShB S ranks had 27 million vs. 9 million on Innocence EX.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

This.

The biggest issue has always been that the hunts are insanely undertuned for the average player turn-out even before cross-server/world was introduced.

It got even worse in EW/DT as the S ranks only have around 50% more HP then the release extreme bosses do when it was closer to 200% in ShB. A DT S rank has around 88 million vs. Valigarmanda EX's 61 million, whereas ShB S ranks had 27 million vs. 9 million on Innocence EX.

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While I agree, this is a separate issue not related to what I made this post about. My complaint isn't that S ranks melt too quickly, it's that Materia's S ranks are being chain spawned in the middle of the night by voyagers while the majority of natives are offline.

I agree that it sucks that you can't leave but others can come to you. However, I'm 100% against your idea since your problem is temporary. Once DC travel opens up again, problem solved.

Removing features will just frustrate a large chunk of the player base. Better to rework the system instead of adding random bandaid fixes.

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Originally Posted by wayneker

While I agree, this is a separate issue not related to what I made this post about. My complaint isn't that S ranks melt too quickly, it's that Materia's S ranks are being chain spawned in the middle of the night by voyagers while the majority of natives are offline.

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Thing is even if you remove the hunt rewards many of them still just want the credit for the mount achievements so they'd be doing it anyways.

I would not be against off-worlders being unable to spawn hunts (This is technically already the case for the ones that require timed nodes) for that reason.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I agree that it sucks that you can't leave but others can come to you. However, I'm 100% against your idea since your problem is temporary. Once DC travel opens up again, problem solved.

Removing features will just frustrate a large chunk of the player base. Better to rework the system instead of adding random bandaid fixes.

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Even if we could visit others, having to hop DCs just to make up for the ones other voyagers killed on ours would be an extremely annoying inconvenience that would leave those who would prefer not to at a disadvantage, so I still think they should disable rewards for all voyagers across the board.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Thing is even if you remove the hunt rewards many of them still just want the credit for the mount achievements so they'd be doing it anyways.

I would not be against off-worlders being unable to spawn hunts (This is technically already the case for the ones that require timed nodes) for that reason.

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If it's possible to disable nuts, tomes, etc for voyagers, I imagine it would also be possible to disable progress for achievements. Voyagers being able to spawn S-ranks would also have to be disabled to prevent petty griefing I would imagine. But for all I know, it's just not feasible to disable all that with the games code, I'm just expressing how I believe it should be handled.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Thing is even if you remove the hunt rewards many of them still just want the credit for the mount achievements so they'd be doing it anyways.

I would not be against off-worlders being unable to spawn hunts (This is technically already the case for the ones that require timed nodes) for that reason.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I agree that it sucks that you can't leave but others can come to you. However, I'm 100% against your idea since your problem is temporary. Once DC travel opens up again, problem solved.

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This does not sound like a problem that is solved the moment DC travel resumes, nor would 'getting a count towards the achievement' not be considered a 'reward'.

Hunts suck because they're done explicitly for rewards and not for any semblance of gameplay they offer.

DC travel exacerbates this, offering players the potential to earn far greater rewards, where DC travel was envisioned to allow players to play with friends they might not be able to otherwise. That in of itself should be enough of a reward. And if it's not, well, then problem solved.

As far as the achievements requiring 1000 kills, yes, it's ridiculous. Don't do it, and complain about that. Let's strive to change that. Let's not try to make things worse for the players that are just trying to live and play in their community, especially because there's nothing they can do to combat it, and the world is a far more interconnected today and traveling hunt companies are far more sophisticated and efficient.

There's honestly a lot of parallels with colonialism here and it's kinda hilarious...

I doubt SE will interfere with this since as far as I know the hunt counts as open world content which is FFA.

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Originally Posted by wayneker

Even if we could visit others, having to hop DCs just to make up for the ones other voyagers killed on ours would be an extremely annoying inconvenience that would leave those who would prefer not to at a disadvantage, so I still think they should disable rewards for all voyagers across the board.

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Ok but that's a you problem at that point, not a system problem. The system isn't what's putting you at a disadvantage, it's your decision to not want to DC travel. Which it is your life so you're free to decide that of course but you are the one placing yourself at a disadvantage at that point, not the game.

I really dont think taking away accessibility to play with friends from other DC's is the answer at all.

I don't agree with this one, surprisingly.

I hate DC travel. It was stupid from the beginning. It has caused nothing but trouble for the game as a whole, but I also don't think now that after all the damage it caused, punishing players is the last thing you would want to do. Sure, they're absolutely abusing a system made to play with your friends, but if it really was that big of a deal, SE would've done something week one. Plus, the open world is dead as shit. This, as bad of an oversight as it is, brings content

I personally can't wait for all the travelers to go home. They're annoying anti-social tryhards who have really made me resent coming back recently to play. There's a reason I don't play on Aether. I'd rather they not hang out in my neighborhood, so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

I really dont think taking away accessibility to play with friends from other DC's is the answer at all.

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I think the freedom of random people to decide that the one thing they want to do together is hunt on other data centers and both be rewarded for it might be bumping up against the freedom of people on that server to just want to be able to fight the hunts at all.

They can still play together, and they can even be rewarded for it in any other context. It's just this one that's becoming a bit of a problem, else OP wouldn't be posting about it.

As far as open world content being FFA, it's also something they've never revisited since the game's remaking in 2.0, or with hunt's introduction in 2.3, long before even Realm travel. Doesn't really mean that they shouldn't ever look at it, ever. One of the strongest things about the open world in the game in my mind is that you can get credit at all for an enemy someone else has tagged (a problem with older MMOs), and the fact that they don't even penalize someone's rewards for being helped to kill an enemy by a higher level player is a good thing (provided they're not grouped, which seems a bit silly when they can just leave the group and follow tags). There's also the 100% drop rate for quests, drops from enemies not having to be shared and even reaching the entire zone so long as a player is in the zone.

These are things that are in baseline; it seems a bit like sharing and giving reasons for players to play together, even if ungrouped, is the intention, but hunts are only reaching this breaking point where players are being deprived of them because there's so many more players interested in sharing them than is remotely feasible, thanks to cross DC travel. Thus, they could probably use a solution that isn't the norm.

Hunts in general need to be looked at and tweaked by SE as they were developed before being able to even hop to another world on your own DC was a thing, but it seems they are fine with it as is. So there's always going to be some people abusing the system, and even though there are very good people in the hunt community, there's always going to be those who are just there to cause trouble.

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Originally Posted by Xellith

I disagree. I think they should rework the hunt system so it's not dumb.

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This
the hunt system fucking sucks and has for years. Can't even kill a mark without a train getting extremely angry at you. Hunt linkshells have also always been some of the most toxic places ever.
The honest to god remedy is to put hunt marks on a much shorter respawn time. Lower the amount of nuts/seals per kill if you want even. I hold this sentiment for world boss fates as well. It's just absolutely insane to expect people to stay up to some ungodly hour just to kill a world boss or an S rank

Materia has NEVER had dc travel.... if we did no one would raid here.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

Ok but that's a you problem at that point, not a system problem. The system isn't what's putting you at a disadvantage, it's your decision to not want to DC travel. Which it is your life so you're free to decide that of course but you are the one placing yourself at a disadvantage at that point, not the game.

I really dont think taking away accessibility to play with friends from other DC's is the answer at all.

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1. Sure, it is a "me" problem. But I would argue it IS a problem with the system, because if other people weren't DC hopping to kill a good portion of our S ranks, I wouldn't feel the need to also DC hop just to make up for those lost kills. Having to relog, losing access to retainers, FC stuff, linkshells, etc, etc, is not, in my opinion, a reasonable solution. Just because we CAN (or even if we could) do that doesn't dismiss the flaws of the system.

2. I am advocating for the removal of hunt rewards for voyagers. In no way will this have an impact on friends from different DCs ability to play with each other, so I don't know what you're getting at here. If anyone is losing accessibility, it is those who prefer to stick to their own DCs and losing accessibility to hunts due to voyagers running dead time trains.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

I don't agree with this one, surprisingly.

I hate DC travel. It was stupid from the beginning. It has caused nothing but trouble for the game as a whole, but I also don't think now that after all the damage it caused, punishing players is the last thing you would want to do. Sure, they're absolutely abusing a system made to play with your friends, but if it really was that big of a deal, SE would've done something week one. Plus, the open world is dead as shit. This, as bad of an oversight as it is, brings content

I personally can't wait for all the travelers to go home. They're annoying anti-social tryhards who have really made me resent coming back recently to play. There's a reason I don't play on Aether. I'd rather they not hang out in my neighborhood, so to speak.

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Materia players are already being punished by this system because we're losing access to a fair chunk of our S ranks. Taking away their ability to be rewarded for chain spawning another DCs S ranks is hardly "punishing" them, especially in comparison to what materia natives are currently experiencing. And you say this "brings content"... I'd argue it's taking content away from natives of Materia, just so voyagers can kill more than their DCs share of hunts.

I'd also like to add that they still haven't fixed paladin's shield block values, which I'd imagine is a big deal that would surely be easy to fix. I also haven't seen any other threads about this topic, so perhaps SE just aren't aware it's an issue.

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Originally Posted by wayneker

1. Sure, it is a "me" problem. But I would argue it IS a problem with the system, because if other people weren't DC hopping to kill a good portion of our S ranks, I wouldn't feel the need to also DC hop just to make up for those lost kills. Having to relog, losing access to retainers, FC stuff, linkshells, etc, etc, is not, in my opinion, a reasonable solution. Just because we CAN (or even if we could) do that doesn't dismiss the flaws of the system.

2. I am advocating for the removal of hunt rewards for voyagers. In no way will this have an impact on friends from different DCs ability to play with each other, so I don't know what you're getting at here. If anyone is losing accessibility, it is those who prefer to stick to their own DCs and losing accessibility to hunts due to voyagers running dead time trains.

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The thing about your first argument is it also applies to world travel, not just DC travel.
I'm also in favor of changing the system as stated in my first comment. Just not in the way you suggest.

As for your second point. Yes it does impact how I play with others.
Here's an example.
Let's say you want to do some fate farming with friends from another DC. An S rank spawns and now all your friends go to the S rank, leaving you alone or having you follow around for literally nothing.
Or say you're raiding on another DC and something spawns during downtime. Again, you can't do a thing then.

With how long the spawn times are for S ranks, it isn't fair at all to penalize anyone who doesn't play on their DC all the time. If spawns were more frequent and common, then I may be inclined to consider your suggestion but as it is right now. Absolutely not.

I also keep seeing you mention chain pulling and trains. You can't do that with S ranks outside of directly after maintenance where some are linked together at that point.
S ranks are decided by the game when they can be spawned.

We did have 2 maintenances now in the past 4 weeks now so that means that all the marks have spawned at around the same time and we're linked. That's most likely why you keep seeing a bunch being spawned at the same time. Combination of a whole lot more people playing with the expansion as well as the maintenances.

Give it a couple weeks after savage drops and the marks will be more spread out and you shouldn't be missing big chunks of marks like lately.

The fundamental flaw with hunts is that they're designed to be akin to FFXI NMs, but they don't function the same way in practice. Hunt trains are "owned" by whoever put in the work to spawn them, but you can't really put in the work when you login and someone else has done it. You have no idea what kind of train conductor you're gonna get - will they wait for everyone at rally points, or will they rush through?

I believe Hunts would benefit if they were more like treasure maps, meant for smaller groups to take down a big enemy (where its actual mechanics are relevant). Put a cap on the amount of times you can do this in a day and you've got a system that won't inconvenience anyone.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

The thing about your first argument is it also applies to world travel, not just DC travel.
I'm also in favor of changing the system as stated in my first comment. Just not in the way you suggest.

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No, it really doesn't. The only inconvenience re:world travel is access to retainers. You can still socialize with your fc and linkshells and you don't have to relog when you want to switch, it just takes a few seconds at an aetheryte.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

As for your second point. Yes it does impact how I play with others.
Here's an example.
Let's say you want to do some fate farming with friends from another DC. An S rank spawns and now all your friends go to the S rank, leaving you alone or having you follow around for literally nothing.
Or say you're raiding on another DC and something spawns during downtime. Again, you can't do a thing then.

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Of course you can. You may not receive the rewards, but nothing would be stopping you from assisting your friends in the kill. A small trade off imo considering the dozens of hunts natives of that DC miss out on.

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Originally Posted by Thurmnmurmn

With how long the spawn times are for S ranks, it isn't fair at all to penalize anyone who doesn't play on their DC all the time. If spawns were more frequent and common, then I may be inclined to consider your suggestion but as it is right now. Absolutely not.

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I find it ironic that you say it isn't fair to "penalize" players who aren't on their DC all the time, but seem to have no issue with penalizing players who do play on their DC all the time due to voyagers spawning their S ranks during unreasonable hours. If spawns were more frequent and common, then voyagers wouldn't have a reason to come and do all of ours and there wouldn't be an issue in the first place.

I've been pretty open minded to cross world hunting, but hunting in Dawntrail has been miserable. Players having to jail themselves to an aetheryte to be able to get to an S rank when it spawns is not good or healthy for them, and the game. The amount of FOMO that S ranks create needs to be removed for the health of the players, and the health of the game. Disabling hunt marks for wanderers, travelers, and voyagers, and doubling, tripling or even quadrupling the spawn frequency of A ranks, and S ranks will quell this FOMO.

As someone who has all the hunt achievements, and are trying to work on the Dawntrail ones, it's bad. It needs to be easier, and less painful experience for players. Please fix this mess.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

I've been pretty open minded to cross world hunting, but hunting in Dawntrail has been miserable. Players having to jail themselves to an aetheryte to be able to get to an S rank when it spawns is not good or healthy for them, and the game. The amount of FOMO that S ranks create needs to be removed for the health of the players, and the health of the game. Disabling hunt marks for wanderers, travelers, and voyagers, and doubling, tripling or even quadrupling the spawn frequency of A ranks, and S ranks will quell this FOMO.

As someone who has all the hunt achievements, and are trying to work on the Dawntrail ones, it's bad. It needs to be easier, and less painful experience for players. Please fix this mess.

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I've noticed that some of the DT S ranks don't last long. Like I've gotten a fallout for an S rank ON MY OWN SERVER, I get there and it's half dead already.

I'm for locking ALL hunt rewards for current expacs to their data center. This includes Achievement progress. B ranks fine have at it, but not A ranks S and SS/minions (possibly lock all S and SS ranks to data center regardless of expac). should work like a fate mob cant target it unless your synced, just make it so players from another center cant attack it to stop attempts at griefing (because you know people would do it).

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Originally Posted by Infindox

I've noticed that some of the DT S ranks don't last long. Like I've gotten a fallout for an S rank ON MY OWN SERVER, I get there and it's half dead already.

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They really need HP tuning comparable to world boss FATEs.

The pre-DT world bosses have more then double the HP of S ranks from the same expansion despite the average turn-out generally being worse due to the relative lack of rewards.

Yeah, they gotta shut off hunt rewards for voyagers, if not because it's unfair, then to keep other DCs toxic communities contained to their own DCs. Just had the most miserable and toxic experience I've ever had at an S rank caused by voyagers. I'm not sure how you people even find enjoyment doing hunts if that's how people behave.