I Don't Think That We Can See Another Tank In The Future

I Don't Think That We Can See Another Tank In The Future

really we are struggling to find an identity to dark knight

how we can create "new job" with different identity

guys I don't think we can see another tank that plays differently

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I Don't Think That We Can See Another Tank In The Future

really we are struggling to find an identity to dark knight

how we can create "new job" with different identity

guys I don't think we can see another tank that plays differently

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Tunda, we (you and I) are already talking about job design in this thread, you don't need to make a new thread for this.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Tunda, we (you and I) are already talking about job design in this thread, you don't need to make a new thread for this.

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Dear I am already talking about this in General Discussion section
in this link

On some level even Squenix knows this, which is why we got another 2 DPS expansion.

I mean it's to be seen yet, but SE love patterns, next expac will maybe be Tank and P Ranged DPS. SB was a melee DPS and a Caster DPS, ShB was tank and P Ranged DPS, EW was healer and Melee DPS, DT Melee DPS and caster DPS, so logic might dictate we will get a tank and P Ranged DPS next expac.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

I mean it's to be seen yet, but SE love patterns, next expac will maybe be Tank and P Ranged DPS. SB was a melee DPS and a Caster DPS, ShB was tank and P Ranged DPS, EW was healer and Melee DPS, DT Melee DPS and caster DPS, so logic might dictate we will get a tank and P Ranged DPS next expac.

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that and the fact that they want to always make one far ranged job (healer/magic/ranged) or one close up job (tank/melee) I personally don't see them ever doing two ranged jobs like a caster or phys ranged, So the fact we got 2 melees in a row should point to us getting a tank and physical ranged because Phys ranged is only 3 as of current.

Although, Personally i don't want any new jobs, I think they should spend 8.0 making what we got actually fun, instead of designing new jobs when our current jobs mostly aren't fun and are very samey.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Although, Personally i don't want any new jobs, I think they should spend 8.0 making what we got actually fun, instead of designing new jobs when our current jobs mostly aren't fun and are very samey.

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Personally I want one more physical ranged job to round out the numbers of each job, and then work on proper balancing and job design, but let's be honest, new jobs bring in more hype for an expac, so we'll probably still get new jobs for the foreseeable future.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

On some level even Squenix knows this, which is why we got another 2 DPS expansion.

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You don't know what you're talking about. They're just repeating the pattern they've had since Stormblood.

They actually already did rework Dark Knight and put it in the game, knowing they couldn't turn current Dark Knight design into a tank. They called it Reaper.

In truth it's gvery easy to create a new tank following the formula of the way tanks are built, the devs just don't care about Dark Knight because it has players. It won't be reworked until the playrate drops.

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Originally Posted by Ryaduera

They actually already did rework Dark Knight and put it in the game, knowing they couldn't turn current Dark Knight design into a tank. They called it Reaper.

In truth it's gvery easy to create a new tank following the formula of the way tanks are built, the devs just don't care about Dark Knight because it has players. It won't be reworked until the playrate drops.

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What does RPR have in common with DRK other than the ability to use a scythe?

I believe when Gunbreaker was announced, Yoshi-p made a comment at the fanfest that they made the new tank because Stormblood adding two dps made tank ques terrible and they needed to balance the group finder, so we got a new tank.

So really the question we need to ask is "Are ques so unbalanced with dps that we need more support classes?"

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I believe when Gunbreaker was announced, Yoshi-p made a comment at the fanfest that they made the new tank because Stormblood adding two dps made tank ques terrible and they needed to balance the group finder, so we got a new tank.

So really the question we need to ask is "Are ques so unbalanced with dps that we need more support classes?"

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It is unbalanced 100%

Tanking a que more than 5 min is bad for the game

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Originally Posted by Oizen

On some level even Squenix knows this, which is why we got another 2 DPS expansion.

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To be fair, this does follow Square Enix's pattern, and we know how much SE loooooves sticking to the same pattern. Heavensward was kind of an outliner since we got three jobs, which they've said they'll never do again. So Stormblood moved up.

That all being said, I've long held the belief we won't see another tank or healer. They'll either do double DPS or I could actually see 8.0 being where they drop to one job per expansion. Especially with the supposed job identity rework.

Here's the thing though. We need a caster tank. It's the easy, free option for a unique tank.

And no, Paladin doesn't count as a caster tank, the only time you hard cast a spell is the opener. I mean actual caster.

There's high chances we get a new tank in 8.0

There is absolutely room for another tank. The only thing that would stop anyone from adding another tank would be a lack of ideas -- even bad ideas.

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Originally Posted by mallleable

There is absolutely room for another tank. The only thing that would stop anyone from adding another tank would be a lack of ideas -- even bad ideas.

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What if we had a tank that did 123 as their core rotation, spent 50 gauge on a big attack, had a snap to boss gap closer, and a 40% mit and a 25s short mit

There's already PLD and WAR, why do we need more tanks?

Not gonna lie, I'm reminded of when they said they wouldn't add new healers in I think it was either ShB or SB, because they were focusing on healer balance before adding a new one.

Lo and Behold, they lobotomized healers across the board to make them easy to balance and then sage was announced during the EW trailer. They finally managed to balance healers by making them all braindead.

Makes me think that they might do the same for tanks if they ever pull the "No new tanks, we're trying to balance them first" card, which they may very well do so since tanks are more or less pretty homogenized

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

Not gonna lie, I'm reminded of when they said they wouldn't add new healers in I think it was either ShB or SB, because they were focusing on healer balance before adding a new one.

Lo and Behold, they lobotomized healers across the board to make them easy to balance and then sage was announced during the EW trailer. They finally managed to balance healers by making them all braindead.

Makes me think that they might do the same for tanks if they ever pull the "No new tanks, we're trying to balance them first" card, which they may very well do so since tanks are more or less pretty homogenized

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Tanks are already 80% the same kit what to homogenize more?

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

I mean it's to be seen yet, but SE love patterns, next expac will maybe be Tank and P Ranged DPS. SB was a melee DPS and a Caster DPS, ShB was tank and P Ranged DPS, EW was healer and Melee DPS, DT Melee DPS and caster DPS, so logic might dictate we will get a tank and P Ranged DPS next expac.

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A new tank would just be a cosmetic update that adds literally nothing of practical value.
It's just going to be relegated to being another Warrior downgrade.
''Oh look this tank has a 123 builder and 4 spender just like the others''
''This tank has an AoE ogcd and a single target ogcd on a shared cooldown! Just like Warrior!''
''This tank has an invuln on a longer cooldown than Holmgang''
''This tank has a party mit that's worse than shake it off''
''This tank has an ability that gives them 3 stacks of their spender for FREE!
''But it has this unique mechanic that's kinda just a weaker, less practical version of blood whetting!''

Like do people genuinely even WANT a new tank?

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

A new tank would just be a cosmetic update that adds literally nothing of practical value.
It's just going to be relegated to being another Warrior downgrade.
''Oh look this tank has a 123 builder and 4 spender just like the others''
''This tank has an AoE ogcd and a single target ogcd on a shared cooldown! Just like Warrior!''
''This tank has an invuln on a longer cooldown than Holmgang''
''This tank has a party mit that's worse than shake it off''
''This tank has an ability that gives them 3 stacks of their spender for FREE!
''But it has this unique mechanic that's kinda just a weaker, less practical version of blood whetting!''
Like do people genuinely even WANT a new tank?

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People ofcourse want another tank

But they don't want another downgrade Warrior

I dont mind the simplicity but it have to be with decision making..

Like : do I have to build up 123 to do more damage or to restore health? If didn't restore my health I will lose control of my hp and die

If I use my 1 min cooldown I have to build up my sustain first because I will be busy with my 1 min combo

Something like that could give us more options

Maybe, just maybe, they shall fix DRK which currently is barely a tank, instead of adding a new one. Crazy idea, I know...

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Originally Posted by Tunda

Tanks are already 80% the same kit what to homogenize more?

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Remove what little MP usage Paladin and DRK has left, move burst phase entirely onto 1 button, only 1 OGCD skill that you have to hit off CD for all tanks, no more damage boost skills like rampart or no mercy, Gnashing combo just has a 30s cooldown and doesn't cost any cartridges, TBN is just a 25s mitigation, salted earth removed from DRK

Y'know, just to kind of REALLY stick the leucotome (Lobotomy instrument) in the brain portion and REALLY give it a good rattle and kill off what little brain functions the tank role still has left.

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Originally Posted by GoatOfWar

A new tank would just be a cosmetic update that adds literally nothing of practical value.
It's just going to be relegated to being another Warrior downgrade.
''Oh look this tank has a 123 builder and 4 spender just like the others''
''This tank has an AoE ogcd and a single target ogcd on a shared cooldown! Just like Warrior!''
''This tank has an invuln on a longer cooldown than Holmgang''
''This tank has a party mit that's worse than shake it off''
''This tank has an ability that gives them 3 stacks of their spender for FREE!
''But it has this unique mechanic that's kinda just a weaker, less practical version of blood whetting!''

Like do people genuinely even WANT a new tank?

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I mean I am just pointing out the pattern that is forming, what actually happens I don't know, I already said, give us one more physical ranged and call it a day. we have enough jobs in the game now period. They can properly start designing and balancing new jobs then without needing to dedicate so much time on developing animations and job ideas, and instead look toward working on what we have.

I also said chances of it happening are slim when jobs help sell expacs.

I want a tank with a big hammer and a lot of cast :cool:

I dont think they need to keep adding more jobs. With one more phys ranged everything will be even.
If they keep adding jobs the game will become impossible to balance and it'll be impossible for the Devs to constantly work on each job every expansion. Everything has to stop eventually and I'm sure the Devs know they only have so many jobs left before it's impossible to upkeep them all.

Nah, we don't need new jobs, we need the existing jobs to be unique and fun!

We shouldn't be expecting a new healer or Tank for years...if the current logic holds it would be 4 classes per suffix. So our next 2 jobs would be aiming (to bring them to 4) and either maiming/scouting/striking.

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Originally Posted by d3adh0g

Maybe, just maybe, they shall fix DRK which currently is barely a tank, instead of adding a new one. Crazy idea, I know...

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I really wonder if most of the people on this forum even play Dark Knight or know how it works lol? Dark Knight is more of a tank than warrior is.

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Originally Posted by Karkarov

I really wonder if most of the people on this forum even play Dark Knight or know how it works lol? Dark Knight is more of a tank than warrior is.

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At this point most people see tank as “immortality via ridiculous self healing” and so DRK is considered trash even though in single target it has the strongest mitigation and is the only tank that can regularly handle ultimate tankbusters with no external mitigation

I'd rather no new jobs and more creative ideas for our current jobs.

Pretty sure next expansion will be a 1 dps job expansion and it will be ranged physical. This would give them the extra time to focus on the other jobs and their identity.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

that and the fact that they want to always make one far ranged job (healer/magic/ranged) or one close up job (tank/melee) I personally don't see them ever doing two ranged jobs like a caster or phys ranged, So the fact we got 2 melees in a row should point to us getting a tank and physical ranged because Phys ranged is only 3 as of current.

Although, Personally i don't want any new jobs, I think they should spend 8.0 making what we got actually fun, instead of designing new jobs when our current jobs mostly aren't fun and are very samey.

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I'd skip a expansion of jobs to have every current job redesigned to be more interesting in a heart beat

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Originally Posted by Tunda

I Don't Think That We Can See Another Tank In The Future

really we are struggling to find an identity to dark knight

how we can create "new job" with different identity

guys I don't think we can see another tank that plays differently

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Just as picto/viper ?

We still have yet to see them add runic knight from FFV/FFVI. A tank that could dethrone paladin from it's place as the only job that both sword and shield.

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Originally Posted by AnjouMaaka

We still have yet to see them add runic knight from FFV/FFVI. A tank that could dethrone paladin from it's place as the only job that both sword and shield.

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Years and years ago they said they would not create a job using a shield, as it is too much work. Easier when they only have one weapon to deal with.
So they could still add Runic Knight, but it's more than likely it will not have a sword and shield.