Tank(s) - Dawntrail Skill Improvement Suggestions

All Tanks

• Tenacity - Increase Buff Potency in Line with Determination
• Provoke - Buff Enmity Generation

Paladin

• Iron Will - Buff Enmity Generation
• Shield Lob - Buff Enmity Generation
• Blade of Honor - Add Restores own HP effect
• Royal Authority - Add a Restore MP Effect
• Clemency - Add Clemency to Divine Might Mastery
• Intervention - Make self or target party member targetable
• Intervene - Increase Maximum Charges to 3
• Cover - Add Grant's Knight's Resolve & Grants Knight's Benediction
• Hollowed Ground - Reduce Recast Time to 240 Seconds & Render Immune to All Damage

Warrior

• Defiance - Buff Enmity Generation
• Tomahawk - Buff Enmity Generation
• Storm's Edge - Change to Increase Beast Gauge by 20
• Thrill of Battle - Add Gradually Restores HP Effect
• Upheaval - Remove Shared Reacst Timer with Orogeny
• Orogeny - Remove Shared Recast Time with Upheaval
• Shake It Off - Increase Dmg Absorbed from Dispelled Skills to 5% for Each Effect Removed
• Nascent Flash - Remove Shared Recast Timer with Bloodwhetting
• Bloodwhetting - Remove Shared Recast Time with Nascent Flash

Dark Knight

• Grit - Buff Enmity Generation
• Unmend - Increase Buff Generation
• Syphon Strike - Increases Blood Gauge by 10
• Souleater - Increase Cure Potency to 500
• Stalwart Soul - Add Combo Bonus Restores own HP with Cure Potency of 500
• Dark Mind - Change to Reduces Damage Taken by 20%
• Dark Missionary - Change to Reduces Damage Taken by Self and Party by 10%
• Abyssal Drain - Increase Cure Potency to 500
• Abyssal Drain - Add Effect Restores MP (should act like the Drain Effect to all nearby mobs)
• Abyssal Drain - Remove Shared Recast Timer with Carve & Spit
• Carve & Spit - Add Restores own HP Effect with Cure Potency of 500
• Carve & Spit - Remove Shared Recast Timer with Abyssal Drain
• Shadowstride - Increase Maximum Charges to 3
• The Blackest Knight - Reduce MP Cost to 2000
• Flood of Shadow - Reduce MP Cost to 2000
• Edge of Shadow - Reduce MP Cost to 2000
• Living Dead - Reduce Recast Timer to 240 Seconds

Gunbreaker

• Royal Guard - Buff Enmity Generation
• Lightning Shot - Buff Enmity Generation
• Brutal Shell - Increase Cure Potency to 500
• Aurora - Increase Maximum Charges to 3 & Increase Cure Potency to 300
• Superbolide - Reduce Recast Timer to 240 Seconds
• Trajectory - Increase Maximum Charges to 3

Did you basically just say add a 500 potency heal and maybe mp regen to every dark skill? We don't need to be brain dead so no thanks.

Dark either needs the MP cost reductions you suggest here (maybe 2500 though), or to have it's mp regen from Delirium increased so you still regen similar levels to EW. If you split the shared recast timer of carve and spit and abyssal drain then both abilities need no change. If you don't, then carve and spit needs to also regen MP, and Abyssal Drain is fine as is MAYBE you slightly increase it's heal potency.

What we really need.... Plunge put back on our non PVP skill set. More mp regen/lower mp costs as mentioned above. Change enhanced unmend to anything that is actually useful. Change it to enhanced Dark Mind or something and make Dark Mind reduce magic damage by 30 or 40%.

I think Abyssal and Carve&split on 30s. It makes trash a little more manageable and helps the MP maintain on single target. Breaking Tbn also I want the choice to use for damage or next tbn for free, AoE delirium Mp off each mob, me using more flood of shadow is not gonna break the game when Pictos and other jobs can just 1,000 potency while were gathering the trash up.

Is this a joke?

Lol yeah, let's give Warrior another Regen. As for DRK, it does definitely need more self sustain but putting healing on everything ain't it.

Great idea.
Give WAR another Regen, increase its DMG by 300 pot/min with oGCD button Bloat and have his Bloddwhetting selfheal be active for 16 out of 25 sec.
Oh, and the AOE Esuna would make WAR a must have in PF TEA. SCH used to have one but they removed it before releasing TEA.
Have a WAR as MT and you can drop a healer in savage and Ultimates.

Oh, and for PLD.
Intervention - Make self or target party member targetable
The skill you are looking for is called Holy Sheltron.

Hollowed Ground - Reduce Recast Time to 240 Seconds & Render Immune to All Damage
I remember the good old PLD times when HG was Immune to all dmg.
Press button and ignore the savage mechanics and all the vuln up/ dmg down or whatever debuff it gave.
That reduced CD would also make HG far to strong because it already has no downside.

with Intervention... I agree with merging both but interventions animation looks bad, i would much rather we have holy sheltron as the animation if both skills were merged.

Personally what I'd want for tanks is
1. More combo path actions, this is very important as every tank has become 1, 2, 3 spend gauge spam.
2. Remove Rampart and give tanks a unique CD in place of that similar to how 30%s (now 40%), where changed to have more "flavour" to them.
3. Weaken the tank passive mitigation, so that cycling mits are more important then ever.
4. For Invuls, 30s gap between each instead of 60s, Hallowed ground should remain the longest, downsides to jobs are fine, i think the gap is a bit too far though.
5. I'd merge low blow and interject as a Stun & Interrupt, both are already very niche. (This saves space)

I could think of much more particular changes in general I think tanking needs some really big changes in 8.0

I think changing Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain to 30s as a change would instantly help with DRK. More Carve and Spits would help with MP as it only gives 600mp so its not an insane amount and should in Theory bring it's Damage into Alignment with Gun and War Where as a class that cant sustain it self on most pulls or some bosses so it should in Theory be next to atleast Gunbreaker in terms of DPS as in right now you have to basically go throw urself into a wall and die to cause all the other tanks can solo but DRK cannot.

While we are at it changing Abyssal drain to 400 cure Potency would put it into alignment almost with Warrior considering Warrior can throw out Bloodwhetting every 25s and make their Weaponskills cure them for 400 Potency each time they land one which you can land 4 usually for 1600 Cure Potency. While not Forgetting Bloodwhetting also gives a 400 Potency shield for 20s. And Gunbreaker gets Heart of Corundum a 900 Cure Potency every 25s With DMG Mit. Paladin Every 25s or so can Holy Sheltron for 250 cure potency over 12s so 1000 cure Potency total and DMG MIT. DRK has every 15s TBN 25% total health for 3000mp.
So making Abyssal drain every 30s for each pull will help with sustain by a Huge margin with 2 small changes and even with those changes it would be still nowhere near as powerful to sustain yourself during pulls as War or Gun or Pald but it is a start.

Or they could just do this and seperate Abyssal Drain and Carve and Spit on different CDs would be nice too as it does feel they should be separate.

Also RIP Plunge you will be missed.

DRK need a whole rework this job is warrior downgraded

The concept of Dark Knight is to be a Drain and Shield tank. All I am suggesting is that the devs lean into what they have already created

30 seconds would make Dark Knight overpowered if coupled with my suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Launched

Is this a joke?

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No, this is not a joke. By the way if you only play
Casual content, then this thread is not for you

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Originally Posted by Conando

Lol yeah, let's give Warrior another Regen. As for DRK, it does definitely need more self sustain but putting healing on everything ain't it.

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Again, if you only play Casual content then this thread is not for you. It amazes me that so many of you are so worked up about the world's best Warrior clearing a level 91 dungeon with 3 world class DPS players. No tank can clear 100 dungeons or savage or extremes without a healer. And with all jobs doing more damage enmity and mitigation tools need to be further tooled not nerfed

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Originally Posted by Curisu

Great idea.
Give WAR another Regen, increase its DMG by 300 pot/min with oGCD button Bloat and have his Bloddwhetting selfheal be active for 16 out of 25 sec.
Oh, and the AOE Esuna would make WAR a must have in PF TEA. SCH used to have one but they removed it before releasing TEA.
Have a WAR as MT and you can drop a healer in savage and Ultimates.

Oh, and for PLD.
Intervention - Make self or target party member targetable
The skill you are looking for is called Holy Sheltron.

Hollowed Ground - Reduce Recast Time to 240 Seconds & Render Immune to All Damage
I remember the good old PLD times when HG was Immune to all dmg.
Press button and ignore the savage mechanics and all the vuln up/ dmg down or whatever debuff it gave.
That reduced CD would also make HG far to strong because it already has no downside.

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I main all four tanks and yes I meant Intervention. If we have to spend 50 oath to use it, then it should be self casting as well. We can agree to disagree on Hallowed Ground

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Originally Posted by DarkJello

I think changing Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain to 30s as a change would instantly help with DRK. More Carve and Spits would help with MP as it only gives 600mp so its not an insane amount and should in Theory bring it's Damage into Alignment with Gun and War Where as a class that cant sustain it self on most pulls or some bosses so it should in Theory be next to atleast Gunbreaker in terms of DPS as in right now you have to basically go throw urself into a wall and die to cause all the other tanks can solo but DRK cannot.

While we are at it changing Abyssal drain to 400 cure Potency would put it into alignment almost with Warrior considering Warrior can throw out Bloodwhetting every 25s and make their Weaponskills cure them for 400 Potency each time they land one which you can land 4 usually for 1600 Cure Potency. While not Forgetting Bloodwhetting also gives a 400 Potency shield for 20s. And Gunbreaker gets Heart of Corundum a 900 Cure Potency every 25s With DMG Mit. Paladin Every 25s or so can Holy Sheltron for 250 cure potency over 12s so 1000 cure Potency total and DMG MIT. DRK has every 15s TBN 25% total health for 3000mp.
So making Abyssal drain every 30s for each pull will help with sustain by a Huge margin with 2 small changes and even with those changes it would be still nowhere near as powerful to sustain yourself during pulls as War or Gun or Pald but it is a start.

Or they could just do this and seperate Abyssal Drain and Carve and Spit on different CDs would be nice too as it does feel they should be separate.

Also RIP Plunge you will be missed.

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Finally someone with sense. Thank you

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Originally Posted by Tunda

DRK need a whole rework this job is warrior downgraded

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Dark Knight is very different from Warrior but surely needs self sustain and more ways to obtain mp since it cannot burst damage

Healers would be very upset with this list.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Healers would be very upset with this list.

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I could care less. Most healers aren't very good at their jobs anyway as they depend too much on OGCD and will let you die while having full MP. This thread is intended for changes to tanks that play non Casual content. That's not most players

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Originally Posted by Nilsandres

I main all four tanks and yes I meant Intervention. If we have to spend 50 oath to use it, then it should be self casting as well.

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You missed the point. Holy Sheltron IS your self cast Intervention. There is no point using Intervention on yourself when you have Holy Sheltron.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

You missed the point. Holy Sheltron IS your self cast Intervention. There is no point using Intervention on yourself when you have Holy Sheltron.

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I did not miss your point. I simply believe that if Paladin has to spend gauge the the skills, less Cover, should also be self cast as well. As a tank main, our kits should be flexible. This is why no one uses Cover, for example. It provides very little utility in its current form

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Originally Posted by Nilsandres

I could care less. Most healers aren't very good at their jobs anyway as they depend too much on OGCD and will let you die while having full MP. This thread is intended for changes to tanks that play non Casual content. That's not most players

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Bait used to be believable

Sonic break and goring blade being only allowed under buff is still the worst shit ever designed.

My main issue with PLD right now is that coming from Atonement combo, Sepulchre feedback is hard to notice. Sometimes I think I haven't used it yet because I didn't hear it or saw the animation and I'm pressing a grey button until I notice (it's usually only a few seconds until I realize something's wrong). I know I'll get used to it but a [I]louder/I] Sepulchre would be nice. Atonement is both flashy and kinda loud.

As for other tanks, I can't talk yet... Still leveling other classes.

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Originally Posted by Nilsandres

Again, if you only play Casual content then this thread is not for you. It amazes me that so many of you are so worked up about the world's best Warrior clearing a level 91 dungeon with 3 world class DPS players. No tank can clear 100 dungeons or savage or extremes without a healer. And with all jobs doing more damage enmity and mitigation tools need to be further tooled not nerfed

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I didn't say anything about Xeno's clear, but alright. Warrior has plenty of self sustain to already help it in any kind of content, it even got a new one attached to Damnation. It's just fine where it is, I don't think it's even OP in most content. Your complaints seem more about not having good healers more than anything.

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Originally Posted by Nilsandres

Again, if you only play Casual content then this thread is not for you. It amazes me that so many of you are so worked up about the world's best Warrior clearing a level 91 dungeon with 3 world class DPS players. No tank can clear 100 dungeons or savage or extremes without a healer. And with all jobs doing more damage enmity and mitigation tools need to be further tooled not nerfed

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Vali ex has already been cleared with 8 tanks

No tanks definitely aren’t overpowered

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Vali ex has already been cleared with 8 tanks

No tanks definitely aren’t overpowered

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They've been able to clear Extremes with 8 Tanks before.

Not saying they aren't very powerful but this is hardly anything surprising.

EDIT: Idk why i typed 3, I meant 8.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Sonic break and goring blade being only allowed under buff is still the worst shit ever designed.

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It is consistent with the design of other tanks. I'm okay with it for now.

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Originally Posted by Conando

I didn't say anything about Xeno's clear, but alright. Warrior has plenty of self sustain to already help it in any kind of content, it even got a new one attached to Damnation. It's just fine where it is, I don't think it's even OP in most content. Your complaints seem more about not having good healers more than anything.

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I'm actually not concerned about healers at all. There are serious issues with healing jobs, but this is a tank thread. I am much more concerned with the fact that the Devs forgot to make adjustments necessary for each tank to hold enmity and to properly mitigate and self sustain through Level 100 end game content. I'm all for making the jobs feel unique and potent to play. No one wants to play a job that they feel is unequipped or situational. All jobs should be able to clear all content.

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Originally Posted by Nilsandres

I'm actually not concerned about healers at all. There are serious issues with healing jobs, but this is a tank thread. I am much more concerned with the fact that the Devs forgot to make adjustments necessary for each tank to hold enmity and to properly mitigate and self sustain through Level 100 end game content. I'm all for making the jobs feel unique and potent to play. No one wants to play a job that they feel is unequipped or situational. All jobs should be able to clear all content.

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Holding enmity is definitely a concern, removing the damage potency from engages + adding larger & larger bursts to DPS without considering the ramifications was quite the choice on Square's part. Thankfully, they're at least addressing the issue according to the notes I saw- with more enmity on AoEs and an enmity effect added to engages. Me personally, I would've removed the animation delay between end of engage dash and start of your next action- right now it feels really awkward because I sit there for a whole second contemplating the meaning of life... if there was no delay you could just dash immediately into an attack that would generate the needed aggro.

Sustain/mitigation though, disagree there. Feels like I have far more than I need. With the GNB changes suggested in this thread, pretty sure healers would just be out of a job completely. Already have enough healing on GNB to clear an expert dungeon boss without a healer- I don't need more healing or mitigation. Just feels toxic at that point. It's a cooperative game, I should actually need my green (about to be jobless) companion.

All the tanks except for DRK have plenty of self sustain. DRK is the only one that is actually suboptimal in dungeons and it does suck that it's like that.

Enmity generation would actually be fine but ppl can't wait to blow their load before everything gets grouped up. I did let a dps die once, they didn't drag the mob into the group so I just let them take it. Oh well. In extremes it's been a non-issue, as far as I can tell it's only a problem that pops up in dungeons. (which is interesting since you've said twice this isn't a thread for casual content but whatevs)

I can't really comment on the self-healing. WAR is def fine. GNB did better than I thought it would, compared to my perspective from being a WAR main. But I haven't finished leveling DRK or PLD. That being said, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about being able to solo dungeon bosses with WAR, I mean it's happened practically every day I've run dungeons. It takes too long to solo for one thing, but then you also have the weight of the party to carry. Can I do it? Sure. Do I think we should be able to? Probably not.

Lastly, I do agree that maybe it's time to make the tank invulns in line with each other. There's slight functional difference but not really. And they only end up designing fights around the timers anyways. So just, take it out of the equation. I don't see what actual difference it makes.

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Originally Posted by Khutulun

Holding enmity is definitely a concern, removing the damage potency from engages + adding larger & larger bursts to DPS without considering the ramifications was quite the choice on Square's part. Thankfully, they're at least addressing the issue according to the notes I saw- with more enmity on AoEs and an enmity effect added to engages. Me personally, I would've removed the animation delay between end of engage dash and start of your next action- right now it feels really awkward because I sit there for a whole second contemplating the meaning of life... if there was no delay you could just dash immediately into an attack that would generate the needed aggro.

Sustain/mitigation though, disagree there. Feels like I have far more than I need. With the GNB changes suggested in this thread, pretty sure healers would just be out of a job completely. Already have enough healing on GNB to clear an expert dungeon boss without a healer- I don't need more healing or mitigation. Just feels toxic at that point. It's a cooperative game, I should actually need my green (about to be jobless) companion.

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Bare in mind, I am making these suggestions based on non casual content

Copium whislist:

WAR: IR adds 10 secs of SE buff, regardless of if SE was active prior
DRK: TBN changed to 2 charges, no mp cost, shield break gives 1500 mp

No to every single one of these.

Enmity is already redundant. If you're losing aggro, there is a significant skill issue that should probably be resolved.

Tanks do not need more sustain.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

No to every single one of these.

Enmity is already redundant. If you're losing aggro, there is a significant skill issue that should probably be resolved.

Tanks do not need more sustain.

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All Tanks are losing Enmity because every DPS class can now start their rotations with bursts and the Devs did not adjust enmity generation for those skills. Note: I made this post pre Patch 7.01 and I still do not think the Devs did enough in terms of Enmity buffs

The only sustain DRK needs is in dungeons and that can be done by giving AD the dark arts treatment by costing 3k mana and extending the darkside timer by 30s.

I would like it if there were an option to have the Lionheart combo on GNB replace the regular 123 combo so you're not just hammering one button. It looks cool but it feels so dull to use.