Dawntrail Ninja feels great (mostly)

With all the focus on movement in some of the newer content since 6.4, I'm surprised they're still hanging onto the 'no movement during TCJ' for ninjas.

Also wish they would let us enable the recast timer function on mudras, or just gray out a mudra after pressing, so lag spikes at least can't cause a Ten-Ten-Jin input.

Agreed on the second point. After I get ninja to 100 I won't be touching it for the rest of the expansion again because of latency. The job is fun and that's why I'll be leveling it, but getting bunnies because the game decided to ghost a mudra feels bad.

Yeah, the movement lock of TCJ and the responsiveness of mudra made me back off of ninja a little bit in Dawntrail, despite it being something I was excited to try really getting into again. I ended up falling back on monk (my usual), which I've really been enjoying. I feel like ninja is almost there for me, and just needs a little bit more qol.

you can tell which class is having good time just by looking at the thread here lol

out of all class, i think bard, dancer, ninja and rdm is the most quiet in here which mean the class is received well i guess? (or because not much is change)

i want to say summoner too but i have feeling the summoner player just accepting their fate at this point

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StriderZessei

With all the focus on movement in some of the newer content since 6.4, I'm surprised they're still hanging onto the 'no movement during TCJ' for ninjas.

---

I'm not. It's something that's a bit unique to NIN, and I think that that's fine. It's also funny that one of the most common job complaints on social media is about homogenization and one of the most common NIN complaints on social media is about one of its heterogenous features. That's just the internet, I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StriderZessei

Also wish they would let us enable the recast timer function on mudras, or just gray out a mudra after pressing, so lag spikes at least can't cause a Ten-Ten-Jin input.

---

In general, I think that the best solution is to gray out a mudra after pressing it - it solves 95% of mudra issues without much cost in terms of gameplay. That being said, I also think that a lot of "ping" issues are actually people pressing the buttons too fast - queuing functions a bit differently because of the shorter GCD on mudra, and it can be a bit wonky if you're not used to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I'm not. It's something that's a bit unique to NIN, and I think that that's fine. It's also funny that one of the most common job complaints on social media is about homogenization and one of the most common NIN complaints on social media is about one of its heterogenous features. That's just the internet, I guess.


In general, I think that the best solution is to gray out a mudra after pressing it - it solves 95% of mudra issues without much cost in terms of gameplay. That being said, I also think that a lot of "ping" issues are actually people pressing the buttons too fast - queuing functions a bit differently because of the shorter GCD on mudra, and it can be a bit wonky if you're not used to it.

---

After logging over 100 hours of Ninja, I'm glad that it still has the elements that keep it unique and fresh; Losing a major chunk of your burst damage because you accidentally tapped a movement key is not part of that identity.

NIN hasn't changed much since Endwalker. I was not a big fan of those Raiju's in Endwalker, since my muscle memory from 2.4 gave me a hard time not pressing a combo after Raiton. That's why i stopped playing NIN in Endwalker and tried something else. But now in Dawntrail i gave it a new shot and my problems are gone. But still i would prefer to build up Stacks which aren't canceled after a GCD.

In the newer EX Trials TCJ is still a pain. Trial 1 has the worst timings for NIN, since we have to move in our Burst windows, which delays TCJ out of our Buffs. but maybe there is a workaround for that.

On some Statistics NIN falls behind all other Melees in DPS in those Trrials. I don't think it because of the arkward burst timings alone. Viper on the other hand seems a bit too overtuned and i think Viper is way easier to play than NIN. I've never played something easier to be honest. So NIN could need some decent buffs before Savage as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gumas

you can tell which class is having good time just by looking at the thread here lol

out of all class, i think bard, dancer, ninja and rdm is the most quiet in here which mean the class is received well i guess? (or because not much is change)

---

Bit late but Dancer changes aren't that great. Especially 96 ability it just removes the inputs from standard step during bursts which make it a bit boring. Haven't levelled Bard yet but it's probably not great either, song rotation is still a thing and that's just never been fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gumas

you can tell which class is having good time just by looking at the thread here lol

out of all class, i think bard, dancer, ninja and rdm is the most quiet in here which mean the class is received well i guess? (or because not much is change)

i want to say summoner too but i have feeling the summoner player just accepting their fate at this point

---

The Major thing with DNC is the Tilana changes. The 50 extra Esprit really bloats the tech windows and frequently makes us overcap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagusMirel

In the newer EX Trials TCJ is still a pain. Trial 1 has the worst timings for NIN, since we have to move in our Burst windows, which delays TCJ out of our Buffs. but maybe there is a workaround for that.

---

I usually use burst for a specific stack mechanic that involves nails, helps to melt them

As for how ninja feels?
Fantastic

The one thing I find weird is having kazematoi not being a passive increase of all dps made, but I guess well just have to deal 1 armor crush to 3 aeolian edges, I can live with that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gumas

you can tell which class is having good time just by looking at the thread here lol

out of all class, i think bard, dancer, ninja and rdm is the most quiet in here which mean the class is received well i guess? (or because not much is change)

i want to say summoner too but i have feeling the summoner player just accepting their fate at this point

---

Red made is eating good this expansion. The new skills feel really good. The QoL are great.

DT Ninja barely changed at all so that doesn't really surprise me.

The only actual new button they have is Tenri Jindo and Kazematoi just replaced Huton management, so if you enjoyed EW NIN, you'll still enjoy it now, though it's not exactly revolutionary in terms of the new additions...then again, I can't say that's really true of any job in general.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilihere

As for how ninja feels?
Fantastic

The one thing I find weird is having kazematoi not being a passive increase of all dps made, but I guess well just have to deal 1 armor crush to 3 aeolian edges, I can live with that

---

Before the media tour I was really hoping Raijus would benefit from them too at least since we get 5 of them but it's fine . Loving the new animations and 1 and 2 min bursts feel way more distinct

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StriderZessei

With all the focus on movement in some of the newer content since 6.4, I'm surprised they're still hanging onto the 'no movement during TCJ' for ninjas.

Also wish they would let us enable the recast timer function on mudras, or just gray out a mudra after pressing, so lag spikes at least can't cause a Ten-Ten-Jin input.

---

I don't mind how TCJ is right now, think it adds to an element of thought in the rotation on when to perform it, My biggest issue is that I wish when you use a mudra it either shows what you just pressed or greys out the button this way if a lag spike or latency screws you, you know know what mudra was used.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blueriku

I don't mind how TCJ is right now, think it adds to an element of thought in the rotation on when to perform it, My biggest issue is that I wish when you use a mudra it either shows what you just pressed or greys out the button this way if a lag spike or latency screws you, you know know what mudra was used.

---

I 100% agree. It wouldn't even have to be a new gauge; just, as you said, gray out the last one used.

so I lvled NIN to lvl100
and you wanna tell me that this amazingly cool looked Zesho Meppo is only available every 2minutes !? WHAT A WASTE! They should be just Skill Upgrades, gg but nooooooo.
Also TA is now an AoE and lost it's positional, yet another Positional bites the dust.
And Tenri Jindo is okay, I guess the most justified Skill of the Dawntrail added NIN Skills if you ask me.. but seriously Zesho Meppo is the Coolest Looking One of the New Skill, that it's a 2minute Skill is a crime!!!!!

Edit:
And Kazematoi.. is brutally useless! why does boost only for 100 potency? talk shit about Kaiten all you want but that was at least 50% to all weaponskills not just the burst combo finisher! so why doesn't give it Direct Hit instead? Also! Why does it only boost Aeolian Edge and not also let's say Raiju? Come on! Give Kazematoi some utility!

TCJ needs a cercle puddle to move while doing mudras or freecast our mudras with mobility due we have mastery 2 TCJ we should have something helpful with it. Ninja is currently least mobile in our burst window and this issue will keep continue if we don't voice our opinion about it. If does dumb down ninja a bit its fine we still have kunai and stack of kunais to pay attention. Idk it just other speed classes have no mobility issues inside there bursts, only ninja.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

so I lvled NIN to lvl100
and you wanna tell me that this amazingly cool looked Zesho Meppo is only available every 2minutes !? WHAT A WASTE! They should be just Skill Upgrades, gg but nooooooo.

---

Yeah this is my main complaint. I would've preferred just be a flat upgrade but if they insist on putting it on a cooldown I would have much rathered it proc off kassatsu or TA

Quote:

---

Also TA is now an AoE and lost it's positional, yet another Positional bites the dust.

---

Which is actually a good thing that TA is now aoe..since we finally have use for hidden in aoe. I've been wanting this for years never even thinking about the fact we'd lose the positional. My only complaint is that it happens so late in the process. why give us aoe hidden at level 50 but aoe trick at bloody lvl 92?

Quote:

---

And Tenri Jindo is okay, I guess the most justified Skill of the Dawntrail added NIN Skills if you ask me..

---

I surely wasn't expecting a TCJ to give another ogcd to weave but it feels great

Quote:

---

And Kazematoi.. is brutally useless! why does boost only for 100 potency? talk shit about Kaiten all you want but that was at least 50% to all weaponskills not just the burst combo finisher! so why doesn't give it Direct Hit instead? Also! Why does it only boost Aeolian Edge and not also let's say Raiju? Come on! Give Kazematoi some utility!

---

How in the bloody hell is Kazematoi useless? our combo enders are more varied during downtime which is a net positive.

My only complaint about the Kazematoi gauge is that it virtually doesn't exist in aoe situations. I actually like that it doesn't boost Raiju because I don't want it to become just yet another gauge you build up then dump in your burst. One thing I would like added to it regarding single target is actually Throwing Dagger. Whether it's just a potency upgrade or an upgraded action so long as you have one stack.

And look man, I'm still butthurt about Kaiten as much as the next guy but you literally never used Kaiten outside of on your iaijutsus. If they kept Kaiten around they probably would have removed the fact it could be used on standard weaponskills at the same time they stopped letting you use Tsubame on Higanbana.

imo DT ninja is just EW NIN but better.

I actually kinda like the Kazematoi system. It's nice to be able to stockpile them, and then just coast on the boss's butt especially if the boss does a lot of running around. I also don't miss maintaining Huton during down time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I'm not. It's something that's a bit unique to NIN, and I think that that's fine. It's also funny that one of the most common job complaints on social media is about homogenization and one of the most common NIN complaints on social media is about one of its heterogenous features. That's just the internet, I guess.


In general, I think that the best solution is to gray out a mudra after pressing it - it solves 95% of mudra issues without much cost in terms of gameplay.

---

Agreed on the second point, but the first feels like it purposely avoids nuance in favor of a false ultimatum.

Requests for Ten-Chi-Jin to allow its use anywhere within its ground-VFX area go back to its literal introduction in Stormblood. While it's true that there are no other 7.5s casts in the game, there are also no skill unlocks, combo unlocks, nor cumulative action skills dependent on a ground effect. It would merely be a bit more intuitive and less out of place, not any more homogenous.

Ninja is a bit too oGCD heavy for me to get properly into but it does seem fine. I am kinda sad that all the rogue aethstetics are gone now with mug and trick attack being replaced but that's just me.

1. Huton should give 5 Kazematoi, instead of being an AoE Attack
2. Kazematoi should also boost Raiju

I just don't like that Huton is an AoE Attack now.. it kinda goes against the NIN Muscle Memory..
speaking of Muscle Memory.. Hyosho Ranryu should be available at lvl50 have it the same potency as Raiton until lvl76, that way Muscle Memory won't get punished at low lvls.

But I'm sorry because Kazematoi feels more useless than Kenki without Kaiten.

oh boy here I go again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

1. Huton should give 5 Kazematoi, instead of being an AoE Attack
2. Kazematoi should also boost Raiju

---

Regarding Huton, it's actually better as it is now since we now have an aoe application of hidden. Making it grant 5 stacks of Kazemetoi renders armor crush near completely useless which makes the burst downtime boring for no reason at all.

Regarding Kazematoi boosting Raiju, I really don't like the idea of making it just yet another build and spend for your burst. I'd go as far it's one of the best parts about the gauge as it is now. I'd say that not having a use for it in aoe is a much bigger issue.

Quote:

---

I just don't like that Huton is an AoE Attack now.. it kinda goes against the NIN Muscle Memory..
speaking of Muscle Memory.. Hyosho Ranryu should be available at lvl50 have it the same potency as Raiton until lvl76, that way Muscle Memory won't get punished at low lvls.

---

Regarding Huton muscle memory, all that boils down to is adjusting that. I thought it would take me longer but I got the hang of it by level 93.

As for Hyosho at 50, it really isn't necessary. Swapping Kassatsu use from Raiton to Hyosho Ranryu helps the job feel like it's actually evolved somewhat.

Quote:

---

But I'm sorry because Kazematoi feels more useless than Kenki without Kaiten.

---

Really wish you'd stop comparing these two, it's apples to oranges.

Kazematoi buffs Aeolian Edge and you need to use Armor Crush to get them. It's absolutely vital for dps optimization and actively alters what combo you use so long as you have stacks of it. All you used Kaiten for was buffing the next Iaijutsu you were about to cast. It wasn't actively altering anything except preventing us from spamming the other ogcd spender (which just ended up taking Kaiten's place, so it further proves my point).

Again, I miss Kaiten for the flavor and playstyle as much as the next guy, but you're comparing two different systems here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

As for Hyosho at 50, it really isn't necessary. Swapping Kassatsu use from Raiton to Hyosho Ranryu helps the job feel like it's actually evolved somewhat.

---

Yeah but the sense of evolution is revoked when you're synced to lvl50..
that's my point with Hyosho being unlocked at lvl50 because then your muscle memory wouldn't fight against you, or have you never performed a Kassatsu Hyoton by accident thinking it was a Hyosho Ranryu? lvl50 Hyosho would address that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

Really wish you'd stop comparing these two, it's apples to oranges.

Kazematoi buffs Aeolian Edge and you need to use Armor Crush to get them. It's absolutely vital for dps optimization and actively alters what combo you use so long as you have stacks of it. All you used Kaiten for was buffing the next Iaijutsu you were about to cast. It wasn't actively altering anything except preventing us from spamming the other ogcd spender (which just ended up taking Kaiten's place, so it further proves my point).

Again, I miss Kaiten for the flavor and playstyle as much as the next guy, but you're comparing two different systems here.

---

my gripe with Kazematoi is that you effectively spend it on one skill.. an entire resource to boost just one skill? sounds just too simple to me and rather surface level interactive.. which is why I want Huton to generate Kazematoi and also boosting Raiju. It also would lead to Huton usage in down times. I want Kazematoi to interact more with NIN's Kit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

Yeah but the sense of evolution is revoked when you're synced to lvl50..
that's my point with Hyosho being unlocked at lvl50 because then your muscle memory wouldn't fight against you, or have you never performed a Kassatsu Hyoton by accident thinking it was a Hyosho Ranryu? lvl50 Hyosho would address that.

---

I could say that evolution is revoked with pretty much every job in the game except for Summoner and all four healers.

I don't see using Hyoton on accident as an issue. It's just an "oops, I forgot I'm playing Nin below lvl 76". Mistakes just happen, they should be embraced because they're natural. Not scorned and removed because people shrivel at the idea of messing up one Raiton use at low level occasionally.

Quote:

---

my gripe with Kazematoi is that you effectively spend it on one skill.. an entire resource to boost just one skill? sounds just too simple to me and rather surface level interactive.. which is why I want Huton to generate Kazematoi and also boosting Raiju. It also would lead to Huton usage in down times. I want Kazematoi to interact more with NIN's Kit.

---

Even if Huton did give Kazematoi you wouldn't be using it during downtime because the potency provided is just simply not worth losing out on a Raiton and/or Raiju use during your burst. Also if Huton did give 5 Kazematoi that would actually be simplifying the job. You've basically ripped out any need to actually maintain it with Armor Crush except maybe 1-2 GCD's max. You would just end up with another Huton Gauge at best while as it stands right now actually makes the burst downtime feel more varied and impactful.

Like I said before, the only real issue I have with Kazematoi as it stands right now is that there isn't anything to use it on during aoe (and the lack of aoe Kazematoi gauge entirely as there's nothing aoe that provides it). I would rather they use Kazematoi to build on ninja's filler like it does now (although surface level currently) than just to boringly make it another builder spender for your 60s and 120s bursts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

I don't see using Hyoton on accident as an issue. It's just an "oops, I forgot I'm playing Nin below lvl 76". Mistakes just happen, they should be embraced because they're natural. Not scorned and removed because people shrivel at the idea of messing up one Raiton use at low level occasionally.

---

Yeah, my point is that lvl50 Hyosho Ranryu would address that^^
aslong as lvl50 Hyosho Ranryu does the same damage as lvl50 Kassatsu Raiton we should be Good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

Even if Huton did give Kazematoi you wouldn't be using it during downtime because the potency provided is just simply not worth losing out on a Raiton and/or Raiju use during your burst. Also if Huton did give 5 Kazematoi that would actually be simplifying the job. You've basically ripped out any need to actually maintain it with Armor Crush except maybe 1-2 GCD's max. You would just end up with another Huton Gauge at best while as it stands right now actually makes the burst downtime feel more varied and impactful.

---

so.. to give the NIN the ability to boost the potency of Raiju is not worth to do a Ninjutsu for? okay.. with downtime, I meant when the boss isn't targettable. Other Jobs also have skills to do in that situation: SAM have meditation, MNK have forbidden chakra, NIN would have Huton to replenish Kazematoi once the boss is back. That was my Intention and I mean.. currently Kazematoi only boosts Aeolian Edge, to boost more skills with the resource would something I wanna see. And as you implied yourself, you still have to determine what to do with Ninjutsu. A Huton or a Raiton, Huton will boost your next Aoelian Edge & Raiju and Raiton gets Raiju Ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

Like I said before, the only real issue I have with Kazematoi as it stands right now is that there isn't anything to use it on during aoe (and the lack of aoe Kazematoi gauge entirely as there's nothing aoe that provides it). I would rather they use Kazematoi to build on ninja's filler like it does now (although surface level currently) than just to boringly make it another builder spender for your 60s and 120s bursts.

---

Yeah that's another thing which Kazematoi makes it feel useless somehow.. It's a bit sad that we didn't got a Raiju Equivalent for Katon, I mean they still could use the Raiju Button for that Katon Raiju Skill (not unlike Tsubamegaeshi works for SAM) and that Katon Raiju could've been boosted by Kazematoi^^

My Overarching Point is that Kazematoi needs to boost more skills

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

so.. to give the NIN the ability to boost the potency of Raiju is not worth to do a Ninjutsu for? okay.. with downtime, I meant when the boss isn't targettable. Other Jobs also have skills to do in that situation: SAM have meditation, MNK have forbidden chakra, NIN would have Huton to replenish Kazematoi once the boss is back.

---

Yes. You currently just use armor crush to gain the stacks backs when you've reengaged. Sacrificing a ninjutsu isn't worth the potency loss doing that. If this was an honest issue a better solution would be to give us 1 kazematoi per use of Throwing Dagger. Though I would personally prefer the reverse and have kazematoi affect Throwing Dagger.

Quote:

---

That was my Intention and I mean.. currently Kazematoi only boosts Aeolian Edge, to boost more skills with the resource would something I wanna see. And as you implied yourself, you still have to determine what to do with Ninjutsu. A Huton or a Raiton, Huton will boost your next Aoelian Edge & Raiju and Raiton gets Raiju Ready.

---

Okay so I don't know how many times I have to say this but it would not be worth using Huton for it over Raiton. Huton would merely be buffing the potency of Raiju at best, Raiton grants Raiju ready. You are still just making Kazematoi a builder spend for your burst.

Quote:

---

Yeah that's another thing which Kazematoi makes it feel useless somehow.. It's a bit sad that we didn't got a Raiju Equivalent for Katon, I mean they still could use the Raiju Button for that Katon Raiju Skill (not unlike Tsubamegaeshi works for SAM) and that Katon Raiju could've been boosted by Kazematoi^^

---

I don't really feel like we need a Raiju equivalent in aoe because we already have plenty we use in aoe anyway. The animation for melee range Raiju is so large they could just make that aoe in itself if they really wanted to.

And no, we don't need Kazematoi on it. I want to see it expanded with other abilities or new abilities to make the filler more engaging not make our burst more crit reliant than it already is.

Maybe something like Death Blossom generating Kazematoi and the gauge buffing Phantom Kamaitachi, Katon and Hollow Nozuchi.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

Yes. You currently just use armor crush to gain the stacks backs when you've reengaged. Sacrificing a ninjutsu isn't worth the potency loss doing that. If this was an honest issue a better solution would be to give us 1 kazematoi per use of Throwing Dagger. Though I would personally prefer the reverse and have kazematoi affect Throwing Dagger.

---

Throwing Dagger giving/consuming Kazematoi xD I like that idea^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

Okay so I don't know how many times I have to say this but it would not be worth using Huton for it over Raiton. Huton would merely be buffing the potency of Raiju at best, Raiton grants Raiju ready. You are still just making Kazematoi a builder spend for your burst.

---

tbh, it never was (I mean Huton over Raiton) though I'd like to have the Old Huton Philosophy to be preserved for it to be a buff. I had the Scenario in mind that the NIN is out of Kazematoi, the Boss Jumps off into untargettability (maybe casting something or so) and there is nothing to do.. well 1 Huton and 5 Kazematoi are back and ready once the Boss is returns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

I don't really feel like we need a Raiju equivalent in aoe because we already have plenty we use in aoe anyway. The animation for melee range Raiju is so large they could just make that aoe in itself if they really wanted to.

And no, we don't need Kazematoi on it. I want to see it expanded with other abilities or new abilities to make the filler more engaging not make our burst more crit reliant than it already is.

Maybe something like Death Blossom generating Kazematoi and the gauge buffing Phantom Kamaitachi, Katon and Hollow Nozuchi.

---

if it buffs Katon, Raiton also should be buffed.. or mayber/rather all Ninjutsu for that matter
to be honest I'm not a fan of AoE Melee Raiju but after what they did to Trick Attack, I can see it.. still not liking it though since FFXIV slowly turns into Dynasty Warriors imo.
but yeah Kazematoi should have more impact/utility as it currently has.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

tbh, it never was (I mean Huton over Raiton) though I'd like to have the Old Huton Philosophy to be preserved for it to be a buff. I had the Scenario in mind that the NIN is out of Kazematoi, the Boss Jumps off into untargettability (maybe casting something or so) and there is nothing to do.. well 1 Huton and 5 Kazematoi are back and ready once the Boss is returns.

---

It may not be your intent to be Huton over Raiton but you need to keep in mind that they use the same mudra/ninjutsu system, which more or less means they compete with one another innately. The damage Raiton provides both with itself and giving access to Raiju will always mean Huton is inferior and is a massive net potency loss.

Quote:

---

if it buffs Katon, Raiton also should be buffed.. or mayber/rather all Ninjutsu for that matter

---

It was more of a spitball. They could give another aoe action that provides Kazematoi as well.

I could see Kazematoi from Huton being useful in aoe maybe, but you would virtually never use it for single target.

I didn't enjoy this job at all maybe samurai will be a little bit better

Ninja on the whole feels pretty nice, takes a bit of getting used to not having Huton anymore, but it works really well.

I think my biggest issue is Tenri Jindo lacking any sort of impact, its used during your busy burst so it gets lost in the chaos and ends up feeling like nothing. I feel like it should have been a GCD skill at least. I also love Zesho Meppon and Deathfrog Medium and wished we used them more, I'd suggest Mesui also granting the Higi buff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zairava

It was more of a spitball. They could give another aoe action that provides Kazematoi as well.

I could see Kazematoi from Huton being useful in aoe maybe, but you would virtually never use it for single target.

---

.. what if Kazematoi also boosts Hakke Mujinsatsu?.. idk.. I really like the Idea of Huton generating 5 Kazematoi..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolf_Necros

I didn't enjoy this job at all maybe samurai will be a little bit better

---

The Tsubamegaeshi Change of 7.05 is GOOD^^

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tizzy_Tormentor

Ninja on the whole feels pretty nice, takes a bit of getting used to not having Huton anymore, but it works really well.

I think my biggest issue is Tenri Jindo lacking any sort of impact, its used during your busy burst so it gets lost in the chaos and ends up feeling like nothing. I feel like it should have been a GCD skill at least. I also love Zesho Meppon and Deathfrog Medium and wished we used them more, I'd suggest Mesui also granting the Higi buff.

---

yo.. imo Zesho Meppo and Deathfrog should've been just animation/potency upgrades.. I mean Zesho Meppo is The Coolest Looking NIN Skill ever to be added.. and they lock it behind 2min !?!? WHAT!?!?!??!??!?!??!

Higi should be granted more. Maybe by Kuni's Bane. Ten Chi Jin should allow movement within it's floor effect. Other than that Ninja feels really good.

Ninja was my old main back between ARR and SB and I think I'm going to main it again since they hollowed out Viper. DT Ninja feels pretty solid overall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jonimated

Higi should be granted more. Maybe by Kuni's Bane. Ten Chi Jin should allow movement within it's floor effect. Other than that Ninja feels really good.

Ninja was my old main back between ARR and SB and I think I'm going to main it again since they hollowed out Viper. DT Ninja feels pretty solid overall.

---

as mentioned before, I am not a Fan of the Higi Buff since it's exclusively on a 2 minute buff and those Zesho Meppo falls pray to Animation Cancelling of other Skills.. which is why Zesho Meppo and Deathfrog should've been just animation/potency upgrades but I repeat myself, Ninja's Rework in Shadowbringers (I think it was 5.2?) was so famously well received that ppl were looking forward to mid Expansion Job Reworks, a trend that 6.1 killed off in a brutal fashion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RyuuZero

.. what if Kazematoi also boosts Hakke Mujinsatsu?.. idk.. I really like the Idea of Huton generating 5 Kazematoi..

---

Problem is that in order for literally any Ninjutsu to be worth casting it has to offer more potency than Raiton does. Raiton is 740, and it also grants Raiju which is an additional 700. That's a total of 1440 potency. Hyosho is worth using because it straight up just has way more potency. Katon is worth using in AoE situation because it offers more total potency at 3+ targets (2+ with Doton up). Doton is worth using in AoE for the same reason as long as it can tick it's full duration. Current Huton and Suiton allow you to use Trick which i shouldn't have to explain.

Even when Huton did provide the speed buff (which was a huge dps increase) SE realized it sucked to cast mid fight and gave Ninjas a button to press that auto-refreshed the buff.

Even if Huton added 5 stacks of Kazematoi using it would be such a monstrous dps loss no one would every press it. Sure it means you wouldn't have to press Armor Crush 5 times in a row, but the potency difference between buffed Aeolian and Armor Crush is only 60 potency. You're so far away from making up for the damage lost from not using Raiton. Point is ultimately nothing will be worth wasting a Ninjutsu cooldown on unless it offers more than Raiton.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jonimated

Higi should be granted more. Maybe by Kuni's Bane. Ten Chi Jin should allow movement within it's floor effect. Other than that Ninja feels really good.

Ninja was my old main back between ARR and SB and I think I'm going to main it again since they hollowed out Viper. DT Ninja feels pretty solid overall.

---

Likewise mained NIN in HW and Stormblood. Still miss oGCD mudras.

But I'd agree that, for its 5.1-onward state, doubling the frequency of Higi and allowing movement within the floor effect would polish NIN about as far as possible short of a(n unnecessary) rework. (The only other addition I'd like to see is for mudras to be prevented after a single activation each, since the penalty scales far more with ping and packet loss than with any real mistakes).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tizzy_Tormentor

Ninja on the whole feels pretty nice, takes a bit of getting used to not having Huton anymore, but it works really well.

I think my biggest issue is Tenri Jindo lacking any sort of impact, its used during your busy burst so it gets lost in the chaos and ends up feeling like nothing. I feel like it should have been a GCD skill at least. I also love Zesho Meppon and Deathfrog Medium and wished we used them more, I'd suggest Mesui also granting the Higi buff.

---

Ya Higi should be granted by TCJ or Meisui while Tenri Jindo Ready should be granted with Dokimori , both Tenri Jindo and Dokimori have the same purple esthetic that seem like they would activate from one another and you can use it ranged while using your mudras . It feels awful having to use Zesho Meppo before you get the Meisui buff if you're overcapped on Ninki or drift Meisui , although it doesn't make a different but still ... I always wanna see it do the most amount of damage it can all the time

I don't mind ZM only being a 2 min as levels 92-100 is specifically designed to beef up and differentiate the opener/2 min from the 1 min which wasn't too different before that with the exception of TCJ and a extra Bhav , not that much different now but visually more distinct . The sound effect of using ZM also wouldn't feel as good if we did it all the time .. damn I love when i hear that sound lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jonimated

Problem is that in order for literally any Ninjutsu to be worth casting it has to offer more potency than Raiton does. Raiton is 740, and it also grants Raiju which is an additional 700. That's a total of 1440 potency. Hyosho is worth using because it straight up just has way more potency. Katon is worth using in AoE situation because it offers more total potency at 3+ targets (2+ with Doton up). Doton is worth using in AoE for the same reason as long as it can tick it's full duration. Current Huton and Suiton allow you to use Trick which i shouldn't have to explain.

Even when Huton did provide the speed buff (which was a huge dps increase) SE realized it sucked to cast mid fight and gave Ninjas a button to press that auto-refreshed the buff.

Even if Huton added 5 stacks of Kazematoi using it would be such a monstrous dps loss no one would every press it. Sure it means you wouldn't have to press Armor Crush 5 times in a row, but the potency difference between buffed Aeolian and Armor Crush is only 60 potency. You're so far away from making up for the damage lost from not using Raiton. Point is ultimately nothing will be worth wasting a Ninjutsu cooldown on unless it offers more than Raiton.

---

I mean if Ninjutsu is available sure you go Raiton&Raiju (if Trick Attack isn't available.. I mean Mug.. I mean Dokimori... god..) if Trick Attack is available (I mean Mug/Dokimori) you go Suiton (from muscle memory alone)
repurposing Huton is understandable though I would've prefered it to have a similar function as before, introducing the New Kazematoi Gauge instead of the Huton Wheel.
But seriously! Zesho Meppo is a too cool animation to be locked behind 2 minutes xX as lvl96 NIN you should crank out this move for 50 Ninki EASILY

I agree that Ninja is in a very good spot right now.

I also agree that TCJ could still use adjustments. Beyond that, I think the job is near perfect.