Can we replace lucid dreaming

Every expansion I look at it like the waste of space it is. Replace it with a new button for every job.

oh yeah, mana-management. another mechanic they practically removed from the game. but because of this skill its still kinda there.
they should really make up their minds about those mechanics.

Shroud of Saint and Luminiferous Aether would be the "new" buttons.

Red mage has no other method of regaining mana, so some of us still need it, at least.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Red mage has no other method of regaining mana, so some of us still need it, at least.

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I’m assuming they mean give every class a unique an interesting way to generate mana

Like RDM could generate mana from its 2 oGCD’s as a really simple solution (not interesting but just a random example I threw out)

Replace it with a full mana restore lol

Yeah my POV on lucid dreaming is it's, with the exception of redmage, you really only need to hit it on CD or hit if you die and get rezzed. I don't think thats interesting. I think about how reluctant we are to add new abilities to jobs because of the constraint on controller players too. So in my view you could adjust mana regen and change the amount of mp you rez with, then just replace lucid dreaming with a new action for every job thats actually interesting that is not related to MP regen

I relay on [Lucid Dreaming] for:
- Ressing.
- Gaing MP after death.
- Low lvl: When i don't have my other MP recovery ability(s) yet.

On lower levels you still need it. As a low level WHM you will run out of mana very quickly.




Cheers

I'd like if WHM had to do more Mana management but could also dump lots of MP on powered up versions of e.g. Cure III. I think mana management gameplay should still exist on at least one job.

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Originally Posted by hunter2

I'd like if WHM had to do more Mana management but could also dump lots of MP on powered up versions of e.g. Cure III. I think mana management gameplay should still exist on at least one job.

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Yeah I mean evrey healer needs lucid at all stages of the game. MP regen is important, but it's also not interesting. It could easily be replaced by a dps thing to manage instead.

Right... we can TOTALLY replace lucid dream with class version of it...

Just like Raise, Ressurection, Ascend, Egeiro right?

Now that remind me, why healer's revive skill is not a role action like Lucid Dream?

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

Yeah I mean evrey healer needs lucid at all stages of the game. MP regen is important, but it's also not interesting. It could easily be replaced by a dps thing to manage instead.

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how exactly would you suggest it become "more interesting"? a trumpet fanfare when you use it perhaps? maybe dancing pixies?

I dont need a different lucid dreaming button for every job that uses it. makes things more confusing.

At least the skill actually has an effect of its own and isn't one of those "press this skill to activate the actual skill" skills.

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

how exactly would you suggest it become "more interesting"? a trumpet fanfare when you use it perhaps? maybe dancing pixies?

I dont need a different lucid dreaming button for every job that uses it. makes things more confusing.

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Let it become something besides "press this every 60 seconds". I agree that Lucid is boring. Black Mage has interesting MP mechanics and it doesn't even have a use for Lucid 99% of the time. There might not even be a need for separate buttons per class, as an MP restore could be phased out entirely. Some existing skills would also make better alternatives. The old form of Thin Air which was time based allowed for some interesting synergy with swiftcast. If you could fit more casts into the window when it was active you would benefit more. WHM doesn't have much to use Swiftcast on, but if Thin Air became the primary MP management tool, skills could be built around it to make the class more interesting.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

Black Mage has interesting MP mechanics

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* soon to be used to have interesting MP mechanics /cry

I really think they should remove MP and replaced it with a real new gauges for healers.

BLM could have its own MP gauge since it's the only jobs that actively plays with it.
RDM&SMN can just get rid of the cost, if anything MP cost stops them from trying a fast GCD.

Healers could have something else to manage, maybe cleric stance in a new form.

Beyond BLM, I doubt anyone finds MP management funny or engaging.

Nowadays LD is basically just a death recovery tool, because even as a res MP backup is a bit worthless for 2 reasons: 1) Healers don't have to spend GCDs to heal most of the requirements, so there's a lot of spare MP 2) For High End, rezzing is pointless in many stages of the fights because how often we have body count mechanics

But it's the most important BLU ability.

for RDM they could change (e.)reprise to restore 2-5% mp and it would solve that (could also put that on melee combos)

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Originally Posted by Calysto

for RDM they could change (e.)reprise to restore 2-5% mp and it would solve that (could also put that on melee combos)

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I've been lurking in this topic a few times and have had this same thought.

If they want to have a different way to recover MP, then it should be tied to job mechanics and not just random oGCDs like Fleche or Contre Sixte.

Black Mage already has it's whole system focused around the MP gauge, so there would be nothing to change there and as for Summoners, it could be added as an overarching mechanic that encourages you to use the summons, build up some sort of meter, and spend that meter on attacks that also restore MP. In my head I was thinking allowing them to summon Zantetsuken and weave that between their spells which does damage but also restores MP. As for why not a full Odin summon, remember, in FFXIV, The sword Zantetsuken itself is the primal, not the person themselves. So you summon the primal and use it's power, it is just done a bit differently.

The Refresh spell name is right there for RDM SE.

I'd really wanna see some of the fun animation the abilities could have. Plus it could give meaning back to Aetherflow and Energy Drain for SCH and SMN. And you could add something interesting to SGE to make it stand out.

For SGE maybe something like this:

Aether Battery
Spell
Cast:1.5s (Instant if you wanna make it a movement ability)
Recast: 60s
MP Cost: 0
Effect: Restores X MP to self.
Additional Effect: Doubles the damage potency of the next spell cast (or next Dosis spell if SE does not feel spicy)
Additional Effect: Restores HP to targets under the effect of Kardion granted by you.
Cure Potency: 170 (more if they wanna have it as a funny potent Kardion heal too)

i think the last thing they shoild do is putting the mana regeneration into your normal rotation. they did that with other stuff. its convenient but also makes it so boring abd meaningless

I wish resource management was its own little mini-game apart from damage rotations. I agree that if Lucid Dreaming was replaced with MP being slapped on buttons you press anyways, then there's really not much added.

For example, RDM purposefully unbalancing their White/Black Mana to get access to a special sword combo that deals less damage than standard but regenerates more MP. WHM entering some Cleric Stance kind of mode that reduces their healing potency significantly but their damage spells become MP positive. AST having the Ewer card of course. BRD having a song that only grants MP regen to party members. SCH with Energy Drain, or maybe Selene's usage of the Fey Gauge.

We could also tie some melee jobs' actions to MP, like Ninjutsu costing half of the MP bar instead of being on charges, or the old 'Fists of' stances constantly draining MP, or even just generic oGCDs like Equilibrium. I think things like that could encourage more job interactions with each other and feel fun.

That's why I think (e.)reprise could kinda works for RDM ; atm it's not really part of the rotation ; it's at best a movement tool, so it stay really niche in just another way.

Lucid works fine for WHM. Mana management is not the same like it was in ARR and HW but it is still there to some degree and with Thin Air WHM also has another tool to manipulate MP consumption.

I want to keep it! Making it automatic would just further dumbing down the job and removing one of the last things you actually have to keep an eye on and decide when to press Lucid and when not. Keeping it on CD is not always the best solution.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Lucid works fine for WHM. Mana management is not the same like it was in ARR and HW but it is still there to some degree and with Thin Air WHM also has another tool to manipulate MP consumption.

I want to keep it! Making it automatic would just further dumbing down the job and removing one of the last things you actually have to keep an eye on and decide when to press Lucid and when not. Keeping it on CD is not always the best solution.

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It works fine for WHM because it was a WHM skill to begin with. So if anything, MP management gameplay is quite similar for EW WHM as it was in HW, barring the changes to MP values and Thin Air.

And that is the important thing in all this: "If they want to have a different way".

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Originally Posted by flowerfairy

I wish resource management was its own little mini-game apart from damage rotations. I agree that if Lucid Dreaming was replaced with MP being slapped on buttons you press anyways, then there's really not much added.

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It still just becomes part of the rotation though.

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Originally Posted by Asari5

oh yeah, mana-management. another mechanic they practically removed from the game. but because of this skill its still kinda there.
they should really make up their minds about those mechanics.

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Raises should just cost 10k then refund 7500 several seconds later.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

It still just becomes part of the rotation though.

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In a vacuum, I suppose. But, especially when it comes to healers, how much of that resource you'll be able to hold on will depend on the encounter, the team's composition, and the party's skill level.

A RDM in a hardcore party might be able to push more for the MP expensive, high damage routes if the team's AST loads them with Ewer, or if the BRD is singing their MP song. A RDM in a prog party would probably be throwing out Verraise more often, needing to resort on the route that earns them more MP.

I wasn't around for it, but I hear a lot that the problem with resource management in ARR was that the party depended too much on the BRD to be playing their resources song, and to regain resources you'd have to stand around and do nothing. I think a healthier design would be that jobs have a resource they have to manage, with an option to either use higher value tools that cost more resources or moderate value tools that costs less or gains resources. This way, you have more agency over your resources, but the most optimal paths would require more teamwork.

Of course, resource management highly depends on encounter design (which they said they were focusing on this expansion). I think something similar to Coils calls for more attrition-style gameplay that supports resource management.

I think for MP to be meaningful it has to give you choices and consequences. The most obvious one would be choosing between high benefit, high cost, low sustain versus low-cost, low benefit, high sustain.

That would also require more healing to be GCD or for them to introduce mana costs to oGCD.

I do think for MP to be at all interesting, you either have to have consequences to choices or you have to have it be a limiting gauge like it is for BLM.

It is needed for healers because most of the time we barely have to heal so we spam damage buttons and run out of mp if we don't use lucid. Sage has mp regeneration built into their kit but since you barely ever have to use the abilities that do generate mp you sort of go dry there as well unless you throw out unnecessary heals. Idm leaving it as it is.

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Originally Posted by LuciaMirain

It is needed for healers because most of the time we barely have to heal so we spam damage buttons and run out of mp if we don't use lucid. Sage has mp regeneration built into their kit but since you barely ever have to use the abilities that do generate mp you sort of go dry there as well unless you throw out unnecessary heals. Idm leaving it as it is.

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SGE is designed to dump druachole to not overcap stacks to retain mana. It’s garbage design but you should 100% be relying on that over using lucid

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

SGE is designed to dump druachole to not overcap stacks to retain mana. It’s garbage design but you should 100% be relying on that over using lucid

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I am aware. and yes, it is trash design. Point still stands.