its not about whether SMN has Resurrection or not

its more about how the healers are supposed to be the master when it comes to healing, including raising.
The debate whether SMN needs to keep Resurrection or not wouldnt appear if Healer's raises are superior in a way. Currently the master of raising is ironically not any of the healers, but RDM, due to dual cast works on Verraise.
The healers' raising efficiency, meanwhile, is just on par with SMN.

So the better solution for the whole thing is: improve healer's raise.
make it so the efficiency of raising be like healers>RDM>SMN

some options that they can do:
- make RDM dual cast not work on Verraise
- make SMN Resurrection only available during Phoenix trance
- make SMN resurrection has 5 minutes CD
- make healers' raise only 2.5s cast time
- turn healers' raise to full raise (raise to full HP)
- make healer's raise has no weakened state
- etc
- etc

those are some example, the point being healers should be the master of raising, SMN & RDM can keep their raise for their job identity and utility as long as they're not better at raising than the healers.

EDIT 1: but if after all that, ppl still choose to recruit RDM & SMN more than BLM due to their 'raise' utility, then maybe its time to add a similar utility on BLM too, something that can save the run when things go wrong, but not a 'raise', since BLM shouldnt have a raise. idk maybe something like 'sacrifice'?

EDIT 2: an important addition

Yep! They can keep the raises (especially RDM's as it adds to their job fantasy), but with a very restrictive usage that it turns into just a job perk rather than an identity defining element.

My solutions for both of them are similar: Add in a 180s. And if SMN's Ressurection is ought to be the "ugly cousin", they can make it instant cast, but only usable up to 40s after you summon Phoenix.

well even if RDM & SMN raises stay as it is (7s casts, no CD), but dual cast no longer works on verraise, and maybe make them only has 1 HP after getting raised, and meanwhile the healers raise would be 2.5s casts + 50% HP healing, that would already be enough to make the healers raises superior.
if then ppl still complain, then make their raises have 3minutes CD as you said. and ofc with the raise nerf, comes the DPS performance buff, so ppl would definitely stop complaining completely.

Rdm should either loose Raise or have massive recast timer. Same for smn. And I also suggested this too to my bf to make healer res full hp

Summoner & RDM rez should have a 240s cooldown. This way it stays primary the healers job but can be useful in a pinch.

Resulting in drastically lowering the rez utility on SMN/RDM, they could add more utility and buff the damage of the two jobs, personally I still think summoner would need more casts per minute if you were to put it even close to black mage, because the mobility is very drastically different.

You guys are the epitome of anti-fun.

People really exaggerate how much raises matter outside casual content.

I like these ideas. :)

Reducing the number of rezzes available puts a lot of pressure on healers to know all the insta-kills and gotchas or else their group probably wipes to attrition. That's not a good combo considering how the healer role has been dumbed down and loaded up with free heals to the point that it's aimed at poor players.

CBU3's goal since ShB seems to be to reduce the dependence the healer trinity role to a bare minimum (which I don't agree with but that's a tangent) so I'm not sure why they'd do these changes in pursuit of some 'master of resurrection' role fantasy that makes healers more able to sandbag their groups.

i don't think the timer should change but the mp used to raise should like healer have the same amount but both smn and red mage use 5k each

So BLU's Angel Whisper basically?

Isn't the reason players take RDM is because they are a Rez Cannon? Without it you kind of kill the job?

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

So BLU's Angel Whisper basically?

Isn't the reason players take RDM is because they are a Rez Cannon? Without it you kind of kill the job?

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it doesnt it's just people see redmage as the rezmage that I think is actually annoying they are DPS and do good DPS if you have decent stats on it

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

it doesnt it's just people see redmage as the rezmage that I think is actually annoying they are DPS and do good DPS if you have decent stats on it

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Sure. I really don't see a need to change SMN or RDM having Raise. RDM is fine having it and SMN should have it based on Phoenix being a Summon known for raising dead party members in the franchise.

I feel like they have the caster balance figured out already with RDM/SMN having a Raise and BLM/PCT not having it at all in favor of bigger damage.

RDM res could also cost a chunk of white mana as another way to discourage raise spamming.

Or, letting pheonix downs be used in content so everyone can share the burden somewhat.

I would enjoy seeing casters lose their "res tax" and being balanced with their non-managing-someone-else's-fail-state gameplay in mind.

I do see some value in this line of thinking. I would not be opposed to healers getting better rezzes. For example, it seems just busy work to fill up an HP bar after rezzing. Wouldn't be the worst thing if a healer or all of them rezzed to full HP.

I think a more fun option would be to give them different heal bonuses to rezzing. SGE grants a bulky shield after rezzing. SCH grants regen after rezzing. WHM rezzes to full.

And AST can just jump ahead in time to clearing the boss because I guess RNG and challenge doesn't matter to that job anymore.

I think RDM and SMN should have "unique" rules to their raises, and it could be a little different from each other; giving both jobs more personality. Everyone has been complaining all of Endwalker about homogenization, and this is one thing they can start doing to steer away from that in 8.0.

I don't think anyone wants raises to be taken away from these jobs due to their lore and the sheer fact that having raise is nice. I am not asking for that. Just no more instant resses back to back, and have a unique CD for both jobs. They will still be useful in prog, despite these changes, so people shouldn't be too worried. This is the best middle ground I can think of because this topic is controversial.

"its more about how the healers are supposed to be the master when it comes to healing, including raising."

Says who, you lol?

Red Mage has had DUALCAST RAISING since way older FF14 games. You have no idea what you are talking about. Luckily, developers don't listen to people like you.

"Oh No, a job I don't play has something they can do better than me, I need them to remove it"... lol...

Please I beg you, anyone, give me a logical reason to why Raise should be restricted or removed, and why on earth is another jobs ability your inconvenience? Please give me something else besides "I'm jelly", because that's all I see here. I'll give you some arguments I've heard that I completely disagree with so far:

1. If you are arguing for every job being the same.... gtfo, that's not balance that's homogeneity and it's boring and not how you balance a game.
2. If you are arguing that it's unfair because the jobs are OP... look at their damage, it's not high compare to the jobs without res. No reason there either to remove it.
3. If you are arguing for healers feeling like their own res is not worth it... healers are still the main ressers in high or any level content (cause your DPS sucks in comparison to SMN and RDM btw) and you should be the ones always ressing to optimize damage. You still get to res, so what on earth is your problem with casters with res lol?
4. If you are arguing for it not fitting a DPS job to having a res... yes it does because support exists in the game, and there is no inconvenience to you (who doesn't play the job btw) that other jobs have it. Stop being jelly.
5. If you are arguing that the casters raises should have limitations... why lol? Why should they?0 I'll tell you why. Because the people arguing for this (commonly healers) whenever they die and the raid is about to wipe if not for the red mages recover ability, would somehow much rather wipe instead of ressing to clear the fight. Why? Parsing addicts, they don't want to clear on a bad parse lmao.
6. If you are a Black Mage arguing for removing res cause you don't have it and you are a caster... not every job has support as a DPS and you and SAM are those who do the most damage.
7. Lastly and maybe the dumbest one... if you are a RDM that wants to lose res to gain 1% (yes 1% max) more DPS... just go play another job sry. Do you even play the game besides Savage Raiding? Take a deep look at yourself and if DPS charts is all that matters to you then the job isn't for you. RDM is a jack of all trades and always will be. It's the jobs DNA. Want more damage then go play BLM or SMN (who will lose it's res probably soonish and do more dps, which imo is dumb as fck balancing as well, but they want it to deal more damage than PICTO which is coming and will be more support oriented without having a res). No every DPS job is NOT supposed to deal the same damage, not among melee, ranged, casters either.

Again, please SOMEONE give me a logical argument besides "I want it because I can't raise that well and it would benefit me that other's couldn't either" aka "I want my job to be the best"..

Well, if you want to healers have superior Raise, then focus on improving their Raise, not nerfing others. It is a lose-lose situation that way - nothing changed for healers, while SMN and RDM suddenly have to suffer for some reason. I'm sorry, I'm not going to give half of my MP to rez some flop. Out of all the thoughts presented here, the only one that makes sense is to make the healer Raise to recover more HP. Full heal is a little too much, but going for 50-70% is fine.

IMO, instead of arguing about whether or not devs should delete Raise from SMN and RDM, people should advocate for devs to stop treating Raise as something that needs taxing. That, or either start making high-end fights where having extra rez matters. Cause let me tell you something, not just extra rez, any rez doesn't matter. Most of the fights are designed in such a way that someone dying leads to a wipe. Either a mechanic needs to have all 8 people to solve it, or there is a body check right after. The only content that will suffer from nerfes/removal of SMN and RDM Raise is casual content. Dunno how about you all, I'm glad that instead of resetting some Trial rou fight we had a RDM to chain rez half of the party.

A challenger has appeared: give NIN a raise ninjutsu.

It's naturally very limited by mudra charges and comes at great cost due to sacrificed damage. However, NIN is already brings burst debuff utility, and you wouldn't have to remove anything as the raise ninjutsu could just replace Hyoton, which is useless. Further, looking at some of the source material, we have Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation from a certain anime.

Just saying.

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Originally Posted by jdgev

Red Mage has had DUALCAST RAISING since way older FF14 games. You have no idea what you are talking about. Luckily, developers don't listen to people like you.

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LMAO I beat every single FF games in the series with 100% completion (except the online ones), from 1-15 (waiting for 16 to get PC port), along with the sequels, remakes, & spin offs (tactics, dissidia, etc), I know precisely what I'm talking about. You, on the other hand, don't. So go ahead make a holy-trinity based game with a DPS that can do a healer's job better than the healer, hope it will make you realize how dumb you are. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bloody_Kenny

Well, if you want to healers have superior Raise, then focus on improving their Raise, not nerfing others. It is a lose-lose situation that way - nothing changed for healers, while SMN and RDM suddenly have to suffer for some reason. I'm sorry, I'm not going to give half of my MP to rez some flop. Out of all the thoughts presented here, the only one that makes sense is to make the healer Raise to recover more HP. Full heal is a little too much, but going for 50-70% is fine.

IMO, instead of arguing about whether or not devs should delete Raise from SMN and RDM, people should advocate for devs to stop treating Raise as something that needs taxing. That, or either start making high-end fights where having extra rez matters. Cause let me tell you something, not just extra rez, any rez doesn't matter. Most of the fights are designed in such a way that someone dying leads to a wipe. Either a mechanic needs to have all 8 people to solve it, or there is a body check right after. The only content that will suffer from nerfes/removal of SMN and RDM Raise is casual content. Dunno how about you all, I'm glad that instead of resetting some Trial rou fight we had a RDM to chain rez half of the party.

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yeah honestly theres a big problem with the healing & healer in this game. before they can fix it, a secondary problem that comes along with it (such as how whether SMN having a raise or not is a problem now) will always be there. and I agree with you on prioritizing improving healers raise over nerfing the caster raise. Improving healers raise is a must, while nerfing caster raise is optional.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I do see some value in this line of thinking. I would not be opposed to healers getting better rezzes. For example, it seems just busy work to fill up an HP bar after rezzing. Wouldn't be the worst thing if a healer or all of them rezzed to full HP.

I think a more fun option would be to give them different heal bonuses to rezzing. SGE grants a bulky shield after rezzing. SCH grants regen after rezzing. WHM rezzes to full.

And AST can just jump ahead in time to clearing the boss because I guess RNG and challenge doesn't matter to that job anymore.

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I like that idea like maybe giving astro and whm Rez a Regen on spawning like a 500 during the invul so for like two tick for a total of a 1000 in 4, second and sch and sage could give a shield on Rez with a bruh heal of 300 and a shield of double the heals

I'm all for giving Healers a better way to revive fallen teammates but it sounds awful to nerf the ability for SMN and RDM to revive with long cool downs. Healers could have a role skill called Esunaga with a long cool down or long cast time that removes weakness to make them more useful. Healers could also get a preemptive Reraise Ability that allows them to target a person who will die in the next ten seconds and raise them immediately upon KO. The fact the skill would have to be timed well and still result in weakness means no one would want to die but it saves Swiftcast and MP. Healers could also have a trait that boost their personal power temporarily for each raise meaning their DPS actually increases and makes them the priority for saving people. Being a healer with Reraise means you could save yourself from death as well. It would be such a fun role skill.

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Originally Posted by SalamanderIX

Without the res, what reason will there be to pick a Red Mage or a Summoner instead of a Black Mage (or Pictomancer)?

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when you say 'pick', you mean as in pick them as a job to play, or as a party member?

if its the former: why do some ppl play dnc, some play brd, some play mch on ranged role? like, none of them has raise, but all of them have players. mch is the hardest hitting ranged, dnc & brd have no raise but ppl still pick them. see? the fact is, 'raise' is not the only reason ppl pick a job to play. every job has a different playstyle, aesthetics, identity, etc. if they have no raise, ppl will still pick them because of their unique playstyles/aesthetics/identities.

if its the latter: again, non mch ranged and non sam melee are still picked anyway as party members even though they dont have raise. so why would ppl refuse to recruit rdm & smn simply because they have no raise? makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Ianmaru

when you say 'pick', you mean as in pick them as a job to play, or as a party member?

if its the former: why do some ppl play dnc, some play brd, some play mch on ranged role? like, none of them has raise, but all of them have players. mch is the hardest hitting ranged, dnc & brd have no raise but ppl still pick them. see? the fact is, 'raise' is not the only reason ppl pick a job to play. every job has a different playstyle, aesthetics, identity, etc. if they have no raise, ppl will still pick them because of their unique playstyles/aesthetics/identities.

if its the latter: again, non mch ranged and non sam melee are still picked anyway as party members even though they dont have raise. so why would ppl refuse to recruit rdm & smn simply because they have no raise? makes no sense.

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The casters do have the unique problem that you are only “supposed” to bring 1 of them BLM (and probably PIC) do so much more damage than RDM/SMN what are they really doing if they don’t have a rezz

Like MCH vs DNC/BRD is a tiny difference and they bring decently similar utility

The casters are uniquely hampered by how unbalanced they are because of how taxed rezz is but even without it buffing damage is messy because of how god damn easy SMN is

I know that people get into competitions over mass raises in some types of casual content (Bozja is a classic example, with RDM being the clear winner there), but I'd be surprised if this was peak Healer gameplay. I think the primary issue is in what it does to the Caster role.

The issue around Caster raises occurs in raid content. It splits the Caster role into two sub-subcategories competing for the same slot. You should know how to play a prog Caster to provide raises, but you should also be able to swap out to a higher damage Caster in the event that it's a tight enrage. Nobody else has this requirement. This might partially be alleviated if stat bonuses were based off of taking any two ranged jobs, rather than having dedicated physical and magical slots, but that might be a controversial change.

It also pushes fight design towards strict attendance checks instead of attrition, because the only way that the designers can cause a raidwipe is by killing everyone at once.

I think the longer term solution is going to be to make Raise more universal but limit its number of uses on a fight-specific basis. You could turn Potion and Phoenix Down into General Actions with fixed cooldowns (same category as Sprint and Limit Break) and give each player a fixed number of uses per fight that varies based on fight difficulty. You could also remove those cooldowns out of combat out in the field.

For example, perhaps you queue for a Normal mode fight and everyone has unlimited uses, gated by a recast timer (let's say 5+ minutes). The equivalent Savage fight perhaps gives you 2-3 uses total, to be shared by the entire team, with the recast timer still present. Then it really doesn't matter from a party composition perspective who has Raise and who doesn't, because there is a fight-specific restriction on the number of times it can occur in total.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The casters do have the unique problem that you are only “supposed” to bring 1 of them BLM (and probably PIC) do so much more damage than RDM/SMN what are they really doing if they don’t have a rezz

Like MCH vs DNC/BRD is a tiny difference and they bring decently similar utility

The casters are uniquely hampered by how unbalanced they are because of how taxed rezz is but even without it buffing damage is messy because of how god damn easy SMN is

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correct. all of it. it should have gone without saying that when RDM & SMN get their rezz nerfed, their rezz tax also gets smaller which means their dps output gets buffed. but apparently ppl forget its a thing and thinking that if they lose the raise, they dont get anything in return.

and dont get me started on how broken the current SMN is. we cant have a good caster DPS output balance as long as one of the job is significantly easier than the other two.

The change is an EW change that didn’t need to happen

The double melee shouldn’t need to be enforced. Especially with pictomancer coming there should be zero reason why you shouldn’t be able to run double caster

The damage should be balanced around 2 high damage deals (the melees and the non raise casters) and 2 support damage dealers (the prog casters and the physical ranged) (I’m not going to discuss why they won’t give high damage to a rDPS class it isn’t really the point of this discussion but it does annoy me)

So you can run 2/1/1 or 1/2/1 based on if you want to run 2 melee and a prog caster or 1 melee a prog caster and a high damage caster

This shouldn’t be a hard and fast system but they made this problem by pushing the casters into 1 slot because of the damage dominance of the melee when there really isn’t a need for the dominance of the melee

They should also stop enforcing double healer. That way you can have two slots to run damage tanks like DRK/GNB, and one extra slot to run a healer tank like PLD/WAR.

Actually, maybe that's another way you can get a second caster. Just replace a healer with a support caster.

Honestly I've always found Square trying to micromanage player's damage comps really restrictive for no real reason. My other MMO is Guild Wars 2 and the thought of turning a DPS away because we already have one of that type (class or subrole) really weird. Deciding that melee DPS get to be better than the other DPS "just because" is silly.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

They should also stop enforcing double healer. That way you can have two slots to run damage tanks like DRK/GNB, and one extra slot to run a healer tank like PLD/WAR.

Actually, maybe that's another way you can get a second caster. Just replace a healer with a support caster.

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Your weird defence of melees at the expense of every other role doesn’t even have a foundation in this case because this double melee meta is entirely borne of balance decisions in EW, it’s not something set in stone like the full party comp. Double melee would still be stronger because feint now affects all damage and melee have more health than casters

There is no justification to force a 2/1/1 comp and that’s entire different to tanks encroaching on the healer role (which I know you don’t actually support you just like to poke “equivalences” about “oh well if you suggest any change that negatively affects melees I’ll strawman an equivalent change to healers”)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

?

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I thought this was a thread about raises. I know you're eagerly looking for engagement (and who can blame you, there's none for healers in-game), but I'm just providing some insights into the problem around raises and how it impacts raid design. The tangent is completely unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I thought this was a thread about raises. I know you're eagerly looking for engagement (and who can blame you, there's none for healers in-game), but I'm just providing some insights into the problem around raises and how it impacts raid design. The tangent is completely unnecessary.

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You were the one who stepped in and strawmanned me being a healer main because I dared to suggest to that the DPS shouldn’t be locked to 2/1/1 as a solution to the rezz problem maybe take your own advice and keep to the topic of rezz and caster balance because changing the enforced DPS comp is one valid solution to fixing this balance problem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyth

They should also stop enforcing double healer. That way you can have two slots to run damage tanks like DRK/GNB, and one extra slot to run a healer tank like PLD/WAR.

Actually, maybe that's another way you can get a second caster. Just replace a healer with a support caster.

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I’d love to see your justification for how this comment has anything to do with caster raise and isn’t just an attempt to get a rise out of me because you don’t like me

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

??

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Yeah, I have no idea what any of this has to do with the raise discussion.

Back on topic, I think there's nothing wrong with letting jobs retain raise to fit in with their historical aesthetic. I do think that there needs to be some content-specific regulation on how often you raise. In normal mode content or 24p content, I think it's fine to keep things the way they are. In raid content, I think they should place a raid-wide cap on the number of times that raises can occur (i.e. 2-3 raises per party per pull). That will then lend more fights to be designed around attrition, rather than being always all-or-nothing checks.

If that approach is taken, the broader issue around picking a job 'just for raise' can be mitigated by making raise more ubiquitous. Either you have more jobs across other roles that can provide raises, or you introduce a slightly less efficient raise action (i.e. Phoenix Down as a general action). I don't expect any of this to happen now, but I could see them looking at things like this for 8.x onwards.

(Note Lyth I’m not replying to you I’m putting my thoughts in general out there)

I think that raise in its current form is okay but is hampered by only bringing one caster so you have to chose damage or prog (assuming PIC has about BLM levels of damage)

One way I could see to potentially mitigating this (because I think raise is a valid part of identity that especially the casual audience wouldn’t like to lose) is a removal of the hard and fast limits on the DPS party comp with a return of mechanics that favour one side over the other so you can be free to bring what you want depending on your prog point and what the fight demands

Looking at say O11 there was that mechanic that was designed to be handled by the mobility of the physical ranged (let’s ignore it was actually handled by a PLD standing in the corner using hallowed ground). I believe that raid design should play into this style of mechanic so that you don’t bring a physical ranged just because of the 1%, you bring a physical ranged because the gain from being able to do mechanics like that with no damage loss is more than the damage lost bringing all the top damage jobs but losing damage to solve these mechanics

How this plays into raise is the idea that raise should be a valid consideration for what you want one of your DPS dealers to do if you want access to that raise. However that should be a consideration for one open spot in 4, not a consideration for the only open caster spot. PIC seems to roughly equivalent mobility to BLM (maybe a little more mobile) so if you believe you don’t need a raise and can handle two immobile jobs alongside your comp that should be your consideration, as should bringing a rezzer for safety and the greater mobility that especially SMN offers

Caster raise is currently unbalanced because casters only have an enforced single slot in the 4 DPS, that should be changed to allow freedom for the raisers and the damage casters to co-exist in the same party based on necessity of prog and mechanical design

You're going to have this same problem regardless of what you do in terms of composition. You will always bring at least one Raise capable DPS job for initial progression, simply because it's always more valuable to see more mechanics when you're first learning. That's a guaranteed slot to be shared by only two jobs. We'd probably actually see a SMN + RDM progression setup as standard if there was a mandatory second Caster slot, with both casters swapping out for BLM + PIC after hitting enrage.

You ultimately still have to fix an underlying issue around how raise impacts progression and fight design, if you want to resolve this. You can't fix it by changing composition.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

You're going to have this same problem regardless of what you do in terms of composition. You will always bring at least one Raise capable DPS job for initial progression, simply because it's always more valuable to see more mechanics when you're first learning. That's a guaranteed slot to be shared by only two jobs. We'd probably actually see a SMN + RDM progression setup as standard if there was a mandatory second Caster slot, with both casters swapping out for BLM + PIC after hitting enrage.

You ultimately still have to fix an underlying issue around how raise impacts progression and fight design, if you want to resolve this. You can't fix it by changing composition.

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Well 1 nobody mentioned a second mandatory caster slot just that the DPS shouldn’t have defined slots and that raid design should favour different jobs across different fights

Hell you could make a fight where every mechanic is like ifrit nail awakening and soft encourage double physical ranged

There should be fights that chain rezzing actively benefits you and fights that put hard blocks on chain rezzing (you could even give out debuffs that wiped you if you died eliminating rezz temporarily entirely or have internal fight DPS checks that benefit the melee)

You should want to bring different comps to different fights and that includes sometimes wanting rezz over damage and sometimes not

I guess what I'm looking for is how this all relates back to the Raise issue.

Raise influences party composition in raid content. However, changing party composition does not resolve the issue. If you have the option of access to more Raises, you'll take the extra Raise Jobs in just to see more of the fight. If the enrage is tight, then you'll just swap them out for damage casters. The only difference that two caster slots would achieve is that your mandatory SMN and RDM would each be forced to play and swap out to BLM and PIC (and agree in advance on how that would be divided up). As it stands, you just need to know one of SMN/RDM and BLM/PIC, with the choice being yours of which two you want to learn.

If you want to give players choice around what jobs they bring, then there need to be limits placed on Raise uses per fight. You also need to make Raise ubiquitous, such that you don't have to bring a specific job to access it. Again, I don't think we'll see any solutions this expansion, but I think the long term move will be to have a general 'Phoenix Down' action with a recast/use limit that removes the need for a 'Raise Job' slot.

Because I’m not suggesting sub 2/1/1 out for 1/2/1 I’m suggesting that fight design should be expanded and changed to encourage different classes in different fights

Let’s use some examples

In a standard low body check fight rezz is very useful, especially RDM’s chain rezz, in a standard low body check fight you’d likely want to bring 2 “prog casters” these fights could be tuned with damage checks low enough that you don’t feel obligated to swap to BLM/PIC. They could also be melee hostile to discourage high melee comps

You could make fights that turn off rezzing at large portions of the fight (say the boss does a raidwide that leaves a 40 second debuff that cancels rezz) for fights like this you would want to likely prog directly on PIC/BLM as the limited rezz windows you get could be covered by the healers. You could even do a zombie like mechanic where a rezzed person turns against you unless fully healed, so chain rezzing becomes dangerous without the healers input. For these fights you can either have them be melee useful or melee hostile

You could make fights that apply near constant pyretics or near constant anti pyretics that only apply to movement, you could even make them only apply to DPS. So a near constant pyretic favours BLM/PIC, a near constant anti pyretic favours phys ranged or melee

The idea is to make raise just another tool that can be a help or even a hinderance that makes you either favour or disfavour the rezz casters depending on the situation. Rezz being near eternally useful is only because of the stale fight design that allows it to be eternally useful because they are never encouraged to try to make other classes benefits MORE useful than rezz

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Originally Posted by Emitans

Deciding that melee DPS get to be better than the other DPS "just because" is silly.

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this sounds more like you fail to get the reasoning behind the decision. its not 'melee DPS is better just because'. Let me explain.
The reason is, ranged has some big advantage over melee, which is, the range. as a ranged, you dont need to get close to the target to deal damage. you dont need to lose uptime when the target moves away from you, and you dont need to run away when the target use PBAOE attack. To make up for the disadvantages melee has, they are given higher damage potential. This is very important, otherwise theres no reason to play melee at all. if top DPS output between melee & ranged the same, while ranged is easier to play, why would you play melee? thats why melee has to have higher DPS than ranged.
Now lets factor in caster. caster, while having the ranged advantage, has a big disadvantage of casting. with the same reason as above, they have to have higher damage potential than ranged, otherwise why would anyone choose caster if they can do the same amount of DPS without the casting hurdle as ranged instead?
Thats why, BLM DPS potential is on par with melee. SMN & RDM are supposed to be on par with melee too, but then they have raise thus their dps potential is reduced (the rezz tax).

Now, the problem:

melee has higher DPS potential basically to make up for the difficulty they have to land their hit, right? so in a fair scenario, it should be something like this:

Quote:

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melee : 10k damage per hit, can only hit 72 times throughout the fight due to having to disconnect from the boss, deal 720k total damage for the full battle.
caster: 9k damage per hit, can only hit 80 times throughout the fight due to having no time to cast, deal 720k total damage for the full battle.
ranged: 7.2k damage per hit, manage to hit 100 times throughout the fight, deal 720k total damage for the full battle.

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they have different damage potential, but in the end they deal the same amount of damage. balanced, fair, everyone happy.

but the reality is, keeping uptime as melee & caster in this game is not as hard as its supposed to, thus in the end it becomes something like this:

Quote:

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melee : 10k damage per hit, can only hit 83 times throughout the fight due to having to disconnect from the boss, deal 830k total damage for the full battle.
caster: 9k damage per hit, can only hit 90 times throughout the fight due to having no time to cast, deal 810k total damage for the full battle.
ranged: 7.2k damage per hit, manage to hit 100 times throughout the fight, deal 720k total damage for the full battle.

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thus it gives the illusion that melee is the best DPS.

the better solution is to fix the encounter difficulty so keeping uptime as melee & caster is as hard as its supposed to be.