New gap closers

I was watching the job action trailer and it looks like the devs are moving away from damage dealing gap closers. At least for faster paced jobs.

DRG seems to have lost spineshatter dive, DRK has lost plunge and GNB has lost rough divide and they have all been replaced by a new gap closer that looks similar to MNKs thunderclap. RPR’s ingress/egress seem unaffected, NIN’s shukuchi seems to have been changed into more of a backstep since I never saw them turn around (although this could just be job trailer movie magic) and Viper seems to be following the same trend as the others. Samurai didn’t show off theirs but they are already dps neutral due to kenki usage so it’s probably not changed.

I say only for fast paced jobs because PLD and WAR seem to have kept intervene and onslaught as they were.

I would say it is more for jobs that have/had a high amount of oGCDs. By removing the damage, they remove the need for them to fit into burst windows which starts to free up oGCD slots for other things.

One thing I do seem to recall reading for all 3 jobs is just how busy their burst window is, because of the number of oGCDs. Especially on DRK.GNB, this could cause an issue as it means less weaving slots, which means you need to move something to get potential defensive cooldowns in that window. DRG just had every slot filled, so it was just plain busy.

PLD and WAR do not have many oGCDs used for their burst, so they can more easily fit a gap closer in.

For the most part I like this change. Using a gap closer at the right time can feel very fun and satisfying, but when there is damage attached to them you're rarely if ever going to do that because you want that damage under your buff window instead.

What I don't like is that they replaced Spineshatter Dive with a generic dash on DRG. If you want a gap closer on Dragoon, the job all about jumps, why would you make that a dash and not a jump? I would much rather see them just remove the damage from Spineshatter Dive.

I was really hoping DRG would get a gap closer that was a jump that could be aimed. Alas...

But yes, while there's no reason a DRG couldn't "jump" horizontally to close distance, I was hoping for a flashier jump-looking move.

I think the removal of plunge and rough divide was a bad take. I get why they did it, but removing abilities really needs to stop.

I'm hoping the new gap closer is still called Rough Divide because that's iconic to gunbreaker but I like the potential to get defensive cooldowns in. Plus we're getting Lionheart and that's probably going to get weaved in somewhere.

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Originally Posted by RoadGGG

I think the removal of plunge and rough divide was a bad take. I get why they did it, but removing abilities really needs to stop.

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I'm not sure why they didn't just keep those abilities and remove the damage. They were all visually unique and suited the flavor of the job, now they all look identical.

Spamming gap closers for damage was kinda lame, but at the same time movement based attacks are very cool, and its not good to remove cool things from the game. However, the removal of damage from gap closers should provide the design space to better design space to better communicate to a player that a movement based attack IS for damage, but is risky because it affects their character's movement.

God, PLEASE don't get rid of the gap closers. Plunge is one of the coolest looking moves in the game and was one of the reasons I picked up the job way back when.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

I'm not sure why they didn't just keep those abilities and remove the damage. They were all visually unique and suited the flavor of the job, now they all look identical.

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I think likely due to the fact the animations involve an actual attack. It would honestly look goofy to see a DRK leap at an opponent, slam a huge greatsword down on them and there's absolutely no damage, tactile feedback, or anything.
I like the plunge animation much more, but I could easily see why they replaced them.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

I'm not sure why they didn't just keep those abilities and remove the damage. They were all visually unique and suited the flavor of the job, now they all look identical.

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Because the animations were clearly an attack. Plunge not doing damage would feel weird considering you literally do an over-the-head swing with an 8 foot sword.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

I think likely due to the fact the animations involve an actual attack. It would honestly look goofy to see a DRK leap at an opponent, slam a huge greatsword down on them and there's absolutely no damage, tactile feedback, or anything.
I like the plunge animation much more, but I could easily see why they replaced them.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Because the animations were clearly an attack. Plunge not doing damage would feel weird considering you literally do an over-the-head swing with an 8 foot sword.

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That's a fair point. Personally, this is the same game where we can ride through the air on pigs flying by their ears, so I don't find it that immersion breaking if what looks like an attack doesn't do damage if the end result is more visually appealing.

Perhaps they could have adjusted the old animations, or at least crafted the new ones to look similar but less like an attack to keep their flavor. Anything would be preferable to just pasting the same MNK copycat dash to multiple other jobs.

The most baffling one is the DRG one, didn't FFXI have jumps that did no dmg? So why can't we have a no dmg jump?

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

NIN’s shukuchi seems to have been changed into more of a backstep since I never saw them turn around (although this could just be job trailer movie magic)

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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall it being shown the same way in the EW job trailer - probably "job trailer movie magic."

I loved Rough Divides animation, both as a gap closer and when weaving during burst. Why do they keep sucking all the fun out the game

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

I was watching the job action trailer and it looks like the devs are moving away from damage dealing gap closers. At least for faster paced jobs.

DRG seems to have lost spineshatter dive, DRK has lost plunge and GNB has lost rough divide and they have all been replaced by a new gap closer that looks similar to MNKs thunderclap. RPR’s ingress/egress seem unaffected, NIN’s shukuchi seems to have been changed into more of a backstep since I never saw them turn around (although this could just be job trailer movie magic) and Viper seems to be following the same trend as the others. Samurai didn’t show off theirs but they are already dps neutral due to kenki usage so it’s probably not changed.

I say only for fast paced jobs because PLD and WAR seem to have kept intervene and onslaught as they were.

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The fact that DRG lost a jump really fucking piss me off

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Originally Posted by Noox-115

The fact that DRG lost a jump really fucking piss me off

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100% agree. I'm extremely salty about it. The dash that replaces it looks just so weird on a DRG! I don't understand why they took a jump from a job that is supposed to be about jumping and replaced with a weird ground shuffle.

I see that people being against this change do not raid high end content, so I'll explain for tanks.

Due to the nature of some tank buster, you were forced to weave 4 mitigations during a GNB burst that already has barely any space to breathe, otherwise it would put too much of a strain on your healers.
It was also counter intuitive to use something supposed to be for mobility as a damage tool. In fact due to boss design, it was always used as a damage tool rather than a mobility tool.
For casual content, it was okay for GNB to have that much to weave, but not high-end content.

You'll now use the new tool as a mobility tool instead of a damage tool, what should've been from the start. That's not sucking the fun out of a job, spamming a dash every 2 minutes can't be the definition of fun.
If you don't know what to do to fill oGCD windows, use mitigations, your healers will thank you.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I see that people being against this change do not raid high end content, so I'll explain for tanks.

Due to the nature of some tank buster, you were forced to weave 4 mitigations during a GNB burst that already has barely any space to breathe, otherwise it would put too much of a strain on your healers.
It was also counter intuitive to use something supposed to be for mobility as a damage tool. In fact due to boss design, it was always used as a damage tool rather than a mobility tool.
For casual content, it was okay for GNB to have that much to weave, but not high-end content.

You'll now use the new tool as a mobility tool instead of a damage tool, what should've been from the start. That's not sucking the fun out of a job, spamming a dash every 2 minutes can't be the definition of fun.
If you don't know what to do to fill oGCD windows, use mitigations, your healers will thank you.

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what doesn't do damage can get the f out of my hotbar weather it's a tank or dps it's quite easy to press buttons on a controller and to move too

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Originally Posted by Noox-115

what doesn't do damage can get the f out of my hotbar weather it's a tank or dps it's quite easy to press buttons on a controller and to move too

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I guess you must be a wonderful DRK to heal in dungeon.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I guess you must be a wonderful DRK to heal in dungeon.

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Forgot to quote

I do I pull to the wall, spam TBN, Oblation , use midigation , can place my Abysal Drain to not overheal, spam my 1,2,3 to heal with souleater if my healer neeed help, use arm length, reprisal can use Living dead and got a macro to the healers so yeah I am doing pretty well it's not hard to be good in ff

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Originally Posted by Amvin

100% agree. I'm extremely salty about it. The dash that replaces it looks just so weird on a DRG! I don't understand why they took a jump from a job that is supposed to be about jumping and replaced with a weird ground shuffle.

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It look very odd

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Originally Posted by Noox-115

Forgot to quote

I do I pull to the wall, spam TBN, Oblation , use midigation , can place my Abysal Drain to not overheal, spam my 1,2,3 to heal with souleater if my healer neeed help, use arm length, reprisal can use Living dead and got a macro to the healers so yeah I am doing pretty well it's not hard to be good in ff

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True, it's not hard.
How goes those savage & ultimate clears?

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

True, it's not hard.
How goes those savage & ultimate clears?

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Never tried I don't like people I tried once Eden 12 Savage on DRG on pf because I wanted the dyable version and I don't have the patience to wait for others to get the mechs

Anything else or you are good ?

DRK will be shittiest job to play in the entire game after all of these changes lol
Gauge cost removed on LS, gap closers replaced with new, useless ones, delirium and blood weapon merged, 123 consolidated into 1 button.
All we got was a follow up on LS once every 2 minutes. The rotation's just going to feel strictly worse.
I've given up.

I quit healers because of the 11111111111111111111111111112 dps rotation, which is exactly what DRK is going to get.

I feel that's for the best. Movement utility shouldn't be attached to damage components - it completely defeats the purpose of utility for me.

Hope they make RDM's displacement just movement and detached from engagement. We rarely use it nowadays anyway, the action could see more applications if it's not bound to a damaging ogcd.

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Originally Posted by Noox-115

Never tried I don't like people I tried once Eden 12 Savage on DRG on pf because I wanted the dyable version and I don't have the patience to wait for others to get the mechs

Anything else or you are good ?

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No, I'm good.

My goal isn't to shame you or your experience, but to point out you don't play content where mitigation and utility truly matters or where gaining a few more GCDs with extra mobility is a big plus (or simply counter pushback).
From your perspective, dashes are a damage source you don't necessarily need to pair with mitigations or suffer from drifting.

My point was simply to point out that you don't have the experience where you would understand why this change is made.
It would be like thinking the existence of umbrellas are ridiculous when you live in a country that never experiences rain.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

No, I'm good.

My goal isn't to shame you or your experience, but to point out you don't play content where mitigation and utility truly matters or where gaining a few more GCDs with extra mobility is a big plus (or simply counter pushback).
From your perspective, dashes are a damage source you don't necessarily need to pair with mitigations or suffer from drifting.

My point was simply to point out that you don't have the experience where you would understand why this change is made.
It would be like thinking the existence of umbrellas are ridiculous when you live in a country that never experiences rain.

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okay sure gap close should not be a offensive skill that I can agree but if PLD and WAR keep it they still will be used has offensive skills anyway and won't be used for movement so what is the point of the change

Edit: They could just add an OGCD unique to each if WAR and PLD, you remove damage on all tank gap close give them a dash and to make it fair you add a OGCD for PLD and WAR if they are missing some skill to press between action they must have some place on their hotbar to do so or just remove the gap close damage on both just by the fact that both can heal extremely well doing a tiny bit less damage but have a better heal its what balance is about

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Originally Posted by Amvin

100% agree. I'm extremely salty about it. The dash that replaces it looks just so weird on a DRG! I don't understand why they took a jump from a job that is supposed to be about jumping and replaced with a weird ground shuffle.

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Add me to the list! Surely they simply could have played the Elusive Jump animation in reverse to give us a forward jump (this is a joke, I don't want the animation played in reverse, but a jump that moves you forward would have been perfect)

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Originally Posted by youne

Add me to the list! Surely they simply could have played the Elusive Jump animation in reverse to give us a forward jump (this is a joke, I don't want the animation played in reverse, but a jump that moves you forward would have been perfect)

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A ground targeted movement like ninja but with a jump instead could have had mobility, challenge and utility or just a leap forward could have been nice too

I hope I HOPE with all my f heart that they placed Dragonfire dive on 60sec to compromise the lost of spineshatter with better potency because its really a jump that make no f sense no offensive skill should be on a 2min CD for 300 potency because playing DRG on lv50 and below for dailies is already boring af even if their 1,2,3 hit very hard

They literally could have given DRG Super Jump from XI. Just make it ground targeted like Shukuchi, or just make the player land next to their target. Why the dash?

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Originally Posted by Noox-115

A ground targeted movement like ninja but with a jump instead could have had mobility, challenge and utility or just a leap forward could have been nice too

I hope I HOPE with all my f heart that they placed Dragonfire dive on 60sec to compromise the lost of spineshatter with better potency because its really a jump that make no f sense no offensive skill should be on a 2min CD for 300 potency because playing DRG on lv50 and below for dailies is already boring af even if their 1,2,3 hit very hard

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An aim-able jump is actually an idea I keep bringing up to my friends. That would be ideal