Level 50 alliance raids

Please for the love of Hydaelyn remove level 50 raids from the roulette, I'm so sick of getting these terrible raids over, and over, and over, and OVER. Honestly, this has been a problem for far too long, remake the raids or remove this trash from the roulette.

You could offer me an instant level 90, you could offer me capped Tomes, no amount of rewards would be worth pressing a single button over and over and over on what essentially are target dummies for 30 mins.

Why are the devs so adamant on keeping these trash 10 year old raids in rotation with no changes? Do they even listen to player feed back? I mean genuinely, this has been a recurring issue for English speakers for a long time, the oldest post I found was about 4 years ago, but all they did was remove the IL reduction trick. Wow amazing, thanks so much for that, is what I would be saying if there was actually any noticeable difference in how often I get these brain dead raids. Anyway, my 30m timer for leaving the dungeon is up, perhaps this time I will get placed into a raid where I can actually press more than two buttons (but I doubt it).

They won’t fix them because they decided to make them required for the MSQ and the capped playerbase is meaningless when compared to shoving more people through the MSQ

This is the exactly same complaint I've done in another thread. I'll repeat it here.

Hello, I'm a new player. I've been playing this game for 1 month and a half, I'm lvl 90 and I've finished the Endwalker MSQ. I'm loving the game, but there are some issues that me and my friends that just started playing as well, believe needs a improvement badly.

Crystal Tower alliances and all dungeons and trials from level 15 to 60 needs a reword badly. Everything is so easy, happens so fast, that I don't even understand what's going on. I just run like everyone else. It gets to the point that's boring and blunt. There's no emotion, no reason to run those dungeons AT ALL since everything dies so easy and fast. Please, consider increasing the difficulty from everything 15-60. The way it is today makes me wanna quit the dungeon just after I get inside and see is one of those boring ones, that me as a healer can fall asleep doing it.

Lol. They can't even add a rival wing roulette and a 5v5 roulette. I wouldn't expect them to have the "resources" to separate crystal tower into its own thing

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Originally Posted by Nubb

Please for the love of Hydaelyn remove level 50 raids from the roulette, I'm so sick of getting these terrible raids over, and over, and over, and OVER. Honestly, this has been a problem for far too long, remake the raids or remove this trash from the roulette.

You could offer me an instant level 90, you could offer me capped Tomes, no amount of rewards would be worth pressing a single button over and over and over on what essentially are target dummies for 30 mins.

Why are the devs so adamant on keeping these trash 10 year old raids in rotation with no changes? Do they even listen to player feed back? I mean genuinely, this has been a recurring issue for English speakers for a long time, the oldest post I found was about 4 years ago, but all they did was remove the IL reduction trick. Wow amazing, thanks so much for that, is what I would be saying if there was actually any noticeable difference in how often I get these brain dead raids. Anyway, my 30m timer for leaving the dungeon is up, perhaps this time I will get placed into a raid where I can actually press more than two buttons (but I doubt it).

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If you don't want to get those raids, don't run alliance roulette. It is as easy as that.

The whole point of the roulettes is to provide people to fill whatever instances need people, so those who want to run a specific instance can easier do so.
The roulette rewards is essentially a bribe to make people run the same old instances over and over and over just to provide warm bodies for instances.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

If you don't want to get those raids, don't run alliance roulette. It is as easy as that.

The whole point of the roulettes is to provide people to fill whatever instances need people, so those who want to run a specific instance can easier do so.
The roulette rewards is essentially a bribe to make people run the same old instances over and over and over just to provide warm bodies for instances.

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It clearly doesn't work as intended when 90% of the raids are CT and when I've queued for alliance raids directly, it can take over an hour to get in, or never at all. Like 6 months ago I did an experiment and queued for Paradigm's Breach as a DPS and after 7 hours of waiting I had to give up.

It disproportionately favours lower content because that's what more people have unlocked, but it causes higher level raids to never fill. To say this is by design is to say the design is flawed.

I'm curious how to roulettes work re: prioritization of duties? it is on a first-come, first-served basis? (eg, someone queues up for CT, five minutes later another person queues up for Puppet's Bunker, and the first one gets filled up first)

But also, everyone who has ever queued up for alliance raid, by default, is Lv50 or higher, so CT has the highest possible pool of "possible" users to stick in its raids, whereas Lv90 or Lv80 raids have fewer possible players to do so. So it might be better to actually weight which duty you get put in via your character level - for instance, maybe looking at all waiting duties and just picking the highest level one I can do regardless of where it is in the FCFS queue. Buuut that might also make it harder to complete CT, which is mandatory.

...so then IMO the best solution is to make CT not suck. It really does need to be upgraded from the ground up, and honestly I feel that Lv50 character actions need to be moved around a bit too because they feel extremely incomplete in ways that Lv60 or Lv70 sets of actions just don't. DNC doesn't even get Dance Partner until Lv60!

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Originally Posted by Nubb

Do they even listen to player feed back? I mean genuinely, this has been a recurring issue for English speakers for a long time, the oldest post I found was about 4 years ago, but all they did was remove the IL reduction trick.

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So you know that they do listen to feedback in that case. Players told them that the only reason that CT would come up so often in Alliance Roulette was because there were players ilvl cheesing to force CT to come up and that adding in an ilvl requirement would fix the problem.

The developers added in the ilvl requirement as the players requested. It did not end up fixing the problem just as many of us had predicted.

The main point of roulettes is to make certain that players doing content for the first time are able to get groups. While personally I think that CT should be placed in a roulette of its own, the developers don't seem to be interested in doing that.

If you hate CT that much, the simple choice is do not queue for Alliance Roulette. We've got plenty of options for earning XP and tomestones so Alliance Roulette isn't needed.

If you still want to be doing other Alliance Raids, direct queue for them instead. The developers did increase the base rewards for them at the same time they made the ilvl change. Want something on the random side? Create your own mini-roulette when you queue by selecting up to 5 of your favorites so the game will place you into one randomly.

You have the ability to fix your complaint. I would suggest doing it.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Like 6 months ago I did an experiment and queued for Paradigm's Breach as a DPS and after 7 hours of waiting I had to give up.

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Don't queue for a single Alliance Raid. Queue for multiple. The game will place you into the first available one, just as it does with the Roulette, but you won't have to worry about it being CT.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

It clearly doesn't work as intended when 90% of the raids are CT and when I've queued for alliance raids directly, it can take over an hour to get in, or never at all. Like 6 months ago I did an experiment and queued for Paradigm's Breach as a DPS and after 7 hours of waiting I had to give up.

It disproportionately favours lower content because that's what more people have unlocked, but it causes higher level raids to never fill. To say this is by design is to say the design is flawed.

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If the higher level raids never fill, it is because nobody queues for them. But that does not match my experience. Running Alliance Roulette I get one of the CT raids about half the time, and about half the time one of the others.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Don't queue for a single Alliance Raid. Queue for multiple. The game will place you into the first available one, just as it does with the Roulette, but you won't have to worry about it being CT.

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I think you're misunderstanding. There's reason for doing alliance raid roulette, that you can't get by queuing for things directly. But it skews so heavily towards CT that people directly queuing for higher level raids sometimes never get in. How is that a difficult concept to understand? If I join a roulette it's because I want to fill slots within all the content available, not just do CT every day when I know people also queue for 60/70/80 alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

If the higher level raids never fill, it is because nobody queues for them.

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I queue for them, for glamours, and I know other people do too. It's just not enough people to enter with just that, hence what the roulette is for. Like I said in the post you quoted, I queued for Paradigm's Breach for 7 hours straight. I was in the queue, uninterrupted, for 7 hours. I didn't get in because the alliance raid roulette didn't fill in the rest of the slots and instead just dumped people into CT or something else lower level. I know there's at least 23 other people on my data center queuing for alliance raid roulette at any given time, so why didn't it ever pop for me? Answer that.

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Originally Posted by Ancalagon_Blacktalon

I'm curious how to roulettes work re: prioritization of duties? it is on a first-come, first-served basis? (eg, someone queues up for CT, five minutes later another person queues up for Puppet's Bunker, and the first one gets filled up first)

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I'm also curious to know how it all works behind the scenes. Naïvely, I'd expect the goal to be, "minimize across all players the time spent waiting for Duty Finder to pop." It's an interesting problem solve because to do it optimally requires knowledge of the future.

For example, suppose someone queues directly for Puppet's Bunker. One minute later, I queue for Alliance Roulette, and the algorithm tosses me in with them.

• If we know that 22 other people with the correct roles and capable of running Puppet's Bunker will be queuing in the next 5 minutes, the game can let us hang out for a few minutes while the group fills.
• If we know that we won't have 22 other suitable people in the queue at the same time until 3 hours later, and that there will be someone after 3 hours who can take my spot, the game can just toss me into whatever right now and save me a 3 hour wait.

But we don't know any of that. We can only guess based on what we've seen happen previously.

I suspect, based on my own experience, that the game has its limits to when it comes to holding players hostage to someone who queues directly for something where there are relatively fewer players that can run it.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

So you know that they do listen to feedback in that case. Players told them that the only reason that CT would come up so often in Alliance Roulette was because there were players ilvl cheesing to force CT to come up and that adding in an ilvl requirement would fix the problem.

The developers added in the ilvl requirement as the players requested. It did not end up fixing the problem just as many of us had predicted.

The main point of roulettes is to make certain that players doing content for the first time are able to get groups. While personally I think that CT should be placed in a roulette of its own, the developers don't seem to be interested in doing that.

If you hate CT that much, the simple choice is do not queue for Alliance Roulette. We've got plenty of options for earning XP and tomestones so Alliance Roulette isn't needed.

If you still want to be doing other Alliance Raids, direct queue for them instead. The developers did increase the base rewards for them at the same time they made the ilvl change. Want something on the random side? Create your own mini-roulette when you queue by selecting up to 5 of your favorites so the game will place you into one randomly.

You have the ability to fix your complaint. I would suggest doing it.


Don't queue for a single Alliance Raid. Queue for multiple. The game will place you into the first available one, just as it does with the Roulette, but you won't have to worry about it being CT.

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What about people trying to do the high level raids for the first time

If my quest tells me “enter the puppets bunker” queuing for it, copied and the 3 ivalice raids just to try to get the queue to pop faster literally does not help me at all

The roulette is outright failing to help people to clear the higher level raids in favour of CT and it shouldn’t be like that just because CT is mandatory when they didn’t even need to make it mandatory

i mean there are people who dont even know about a-raids other than crystal tower.
i'm still for making at least the first raid of each set mandatory for the roulette. that would also show them: look there are more.

That CT is showing up that much is for multiple reasons.
First, is it the raid that the most players are unlocking. That increase the chance to enter it very much.

Than, are a lot of player with lvl 50+, because they do story or are lvling the other classes. That increase the chance for CT again (a lvl 60 player has a 50% chance, to enter it, a lvl 70 layer a 1/3 chance).
In addition are some player targeting CT, because its the fastes raid.
A run take only around 10-15 min. Maybe 20.
While the later onces can take up to 30 or even 40 min. And that, for practicly the same reward (the Devs know this issue and tried to make up with it, by adding higher reward for longer raids).

And than can it be simply be a run, that it shows up multiple times.
In my case, as a example, had i last month every second day Nier 1 or Nier3 raid. At last did it showed up so much, that it feeled like that.
From my experience, is CT the most common raid. Than Nier, HW, EW and the raids of stormblood are the rarest that Shows up. Esspecial the raid with the math Boss is very rare.

It wouldnt make sense, to remove ct from roulette. Because, that would hurt the lower lvl player and new ones. Because, they would find people much more rarely.

And, for your 7h problem:
How is your Set up of party founder?
Has you only 1 languange activ?
You can increase the speed of finding a party, by adding the other ones to your list to. Even, if you dont actually speak the languange.

I had the problem with long waiting times, where i dont found a party to, for a long time (like, the first few Eden raids, when i came back in shb, because, practicly no one did the first few raids anymore at that time).
The waiting time reduced a lot, when i added the other languange to the criteria. Because, it gives a bigger pool (and its simply common to speak english, no matter what is in the group).
A other point is: at what time did you tried it? Again, from my experience, is it the easiest, to find groups, at the late times (like 8 p.m.), when most people has finished there works (the best time can change, based on, what time zone you are). It feels common to have a long waiting time, if you try it at the warlier hours or early afternoon.

The Roulettes' primary purpose isn't to give you a random experience, it's to create a pool of players to help other players get through content they explicitly queued for. So only queue for the Roulette if you're down to do any of the content in that Roulette. On days when you're not down for that, simply do something else instead.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The roulette is outright failing to help people to clear the higher level raids in favour of CT and it shouldn’t be like that just because CT is mandatory when they didn’t even need to make it mandatory

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raha literally continues to exist as a scion because you free him from the tower, which you sealed him in at the end of CT. you'd have to change one of the biggest post-ShB plot points to make CT optional again.

They're GOOD raids. the issues are just that they're old and need some love. Syrcus needs the impact of it's mechanics to actually HURT. If people stack those stack markers on the last boss there should be a wipe not little boo boos. Lab needs an update so that team C isn't useless. Seriously...if you go in there on Team C...you are completely shafted in there, second boss you won't even participate....
World of Darkness....same deal, make the mechanics punish people for ignoring them. Toss some nice glam items into the loot table and they would really be worth it and more fun.

Really, another quality of life thing they could do is expand the Limited leveling roulette button you can click in duty finder settings to include raids...offer better incentives for max level players to que without it to keep the pool of players good. everybody wins.

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Originally Posted by Ancalagon_Blacktalon

raha literally continues to exist as a scion because you free him from the tower, which you sealed him in at the end of CT. you'd have to change one of the biggest post-ShB plot points to make CT optional again.

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Well 1 there was a window between 5.0 and 5.3 where you didn’t need to do CT to continue ShB, basically all this amounted to was giving you a choice where you got to call out graha’s name if you had done CT, canonically the side content happens at the time it’s released even if you don’t do it at the time. (Other examples include krile giving small updates on eureka throughout post ShB and gaius changing around sorrows of Werlyt even if you didn’t do them)

Even if they dropped that philosophy do you really think they’d reject graha from being a scion after all they went through with him as the crustal exarch, he’s always made clear he’s from the source regardless of the status of him in the crystal tower. He’s in the same position as eden, the void quests show that eden has already happened by 6.5 regardless of whether you did it on not the only thing that changes is the 5 seconds of Gaia being on screen if you did it

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

The Roulettes' primary purpose isn't to give you a random experience, it's to create a pool of players to help other players get through content they explicitly queued for. So only queue for the Roulette if you're down to do any of the content in that Roulette. On days when you're not down for that, simply do something else instead.

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Which as has been explained it’s totally failing to help people pop the high level raids when they specifically queue for them so it’s failing everybody

No one forces you to do alliance roulette everyday. I have not touched alliance roulette in 2 months.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The whole point of the roulettes is to provide people to fill whatever instances need people, so those who want to run a specific instance can easier do so.
The roulette rewards is essentially a bribe to make people run the same old instances over and over and over just to provide warm bodies for instances.

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No, the purpose of a system is what it does.

A roulette's function is to get first-timers a quicker queue once (1 time) and afterward to supply veterans with busywork in exchange for currencies and EXP to get through the game's various artificial gating mechanisms (between 0-∞ times).

Since purpose of the system is to do both, veterans are well within their rights to stop participating when the tedium outweighs the reward.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Well 1 there was a window between 5.0 and 5.3 where you didn’t need to do CT to continue ShB

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which they changed after 5.3 because the plot point of bringing him back from the tower would make no sense otherwise. It didn't matter for Shadowbringers but it matters for everything in 5.3 and after, including Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by vetch

No, the purpose of a system is what it does.

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No, that is not correct.
The purpose of a system is whatever the designers designed it for.
What a system actually does may or may not match its purpose.

if the system doesnt succed in luring people into participation then the system fails.
they upped the rewards for the longer raids. great. now people cant complain about reward/time. (they still do though since not everyone knows about the changes)

what about joy though? where is the joy in playing the same boring stuff again and again? it would be better if it wouldnt be as boring as it is and it would be better if there is more variety. the roulette loses participants by mostly giving you crystal tower.

While this is purely anecdotal this lull leading up to DT is probably the only time I’ve seen people actively leaving CT around 50% of the time, one person leaves then suddenly half the raid is gone

People still leave nier or orbonne of course but it’s interesting in my view the amount of people leaving the raids has strongly tipped towards people leaving CT

I just don't do Alliance Roulette anymore because I'm sick of CT.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I just don't do Alliance Roulette anymore because I'm sick of CT.

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What I do typically is to save AR roulette as the last thing I’ll do. Get non-CT raid? Cool, let’s roll with it. Get CT raid? Insta-bail. Who cares about 30m penalty when I have nothing else I want to do that involves entering instances? Lol.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

What I do typically is to save AR roulette as the last thing I’ll do. Get non-CT raid? Cool, let’s roll with it. Get CT raid? Insta-bail. Who cares about 30m penalty when I have nothing else I want to do that involves entering instances? Lol.

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This is the high-level play.

A big issue is that crystal tower teaches bad habits. Outside of a few bosses the CT series is just a murderball where you spam attacks and AOE heals, and there are very few mechanics to actually worry about. The only one that has any real consequence is Phlegethon since it takes just a few people being greedy to wipe the raid. This results in a very rude awakening when you reach Dun Scaith which opens with a boss who has six ways to instantly kill you, and at least 84% of those deaths are entirely your fault (the last 16% is the healer's fault).

I do not fault anyone who bails on CT raids.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

It clearly doesn't work as intended when 90% of the raids are CT and when I've queued for alliance raids directly, it can take over an hour to get in, or never at all. Like 6 months ago I did an experiment and queued for Paradigm's Breach as a DPS and after 7 hours of waiting I had to give up.

It disproportionately favours lower content because that's what more people have unlocked, but it causes higher level raids to never fill. To say this is by design is to say the design is flawed.

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i call BS. i regularly queue for higher level alliance raids cause i enjoy them and never have had to wait for longer than 30 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Nubb

Please for the love of Hydaelyn remove level 50 raids from the roulette, I'm so sick of getting these terrible raids over, and over, and over, and OVER. Honestly, this has been a problem for far too long, remake the raids or remove this trash from the roulette.

You could offer me an instant level 90, you could offer me capped Tomes, no amount of rewards would be worth pressing a single button over and over and over on what essentially are target dummies for 30 mins.

Why are the devs so adamant on keeping these trash 10 year old raids in rotation with no changes? Do they even listen to player feed back? I mean genuinely, this has been a recurring issue for English speakers for a long time, the oldest post I found was about 4 years ago, but all they did was remove the IL reduction trick. Wow amazing, thanks so much for that, is what I would be saying if there was actually any noticeable difference in how often I get these brain dead raids. Anyway, my 30m timer for leaving the dungeon is up, perhaps this time I will get placed into a raid where I can actually press more than two buttons (but I doubt it).

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2 things.

firstly - its the only mandatory alliance raid, this will always be the issue with alliance roulette. used to be people would skip the lower level ones and only unlock the higher level ones on alts to avoid having to do CT raids. now that you have to do them to progress the MSQ this was the only outcome that would have happened.

second - a true ilvl sync and retuning of older content is something this game sorely needs as a whole. older content teaches bad habits - CT for instance has you stacking 3 stack markers. if you do that in later levels then you're killing the whole party. these fights were tuned for ARR sub 135 ilvl and ilvl sync plus action potencies being higher than they were back then has made them a cakewalk that you can quite literally shut your brain off in.

quiite simply though there is no avoiding CT unless you avoid alliance roulette altogether.

While it's true that CT's raids are usually the ones that pop in AR roulette, I'd honestly rather have CT being mandatory thanks to MSQ and spawning a lot as it is now than have it be forever forgotten and requiring party finders to run it like with Coils.

I get people are tired of it because of the ilvl cheese in the past and well, hordes of people getting into the game/levelling up classes, but at the end of the day it's sprouts' first AR and the plot is extremely important later on in MSQ, so I would be really upset if I was a sprout and I was stuck unable to queue for the mandatory thing that I need to finish post-ARR due to lack of people to join.

As many people here, I don't really know how the roulette system works, but because of the trial expanding up to Stormblood and FF14 being on Xbox now the mandatory AR tier's obviously gonna be the one that pops up most.

They should put the crystal tower raids into the msq roulette since they're needed for the msq. Then everyone's happy.

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Originally Posted by Cerbolt

They should put the crystal tower raids into the msq roulette since they're needed for the msq. Then everyone's happy.

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this argument makes zero sense. all but like 8 or 9 of the dungeons in leveling are required for MSQ, as are all but like 10 or 12 of the ones in 50/60/70/80. MSQ roulette isn't just "this is where all the MSQ-required things go"

The fix would be so easy, make unlocking all raids mandatory before entering the new add-on.

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

The fix would be so easy, make unlocking all raids mandatory before entering the new add-on.

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that seems to be a bit extreme. i think making them mandatory for the roulette depending on your lvl could be the right thing. there would be people who would only use it to lvl up jobs below 60 but i think overall it would be a good thing.

it would also serve to tell new players: look, there are more a-raids'

Why? there is no reason to not do em. theres no reason to wait til lv 90 or soon 100. if you dont want to do em, you dont do the roulette. im tired of all side stuff being in a vacuum due that...

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Originally Posted by Kuroka

The fix would be so easy, make unlocking all raids mandatory before entering the new add-on.

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Not all players want to do raids, so I think it would be overkill to block MSQ progression in this way. Instead, I think it would be better to just prevent players from using the raid roulette itself if they hadn't unlocked the raids that were possible given their current MSQ progression. A small difference, one that would still have the impact we're looking for without having a negative impact on the players who aren't interested in raiding.