Beastmaster a wasted opportunity

Beastmaster could have been FFXIV's ranger a phys range dps with a whip or crossbow with the ability to summon/call animals for damage or buffs or whatever.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

Beastmaster could have been FFXIV's ranger a phys range dps with a whip or crossbow with the ability to summon/call animals for damage or buffs or whatever.

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Who says that won't be what it is? We don't know anything about the job just yet. I know Beastmasters are in the game already as NPCs, but some aspects might change when it's available to the player.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Who says that won't be what it is? We don't know anything about the job just yet. I know Beastmasters are in the game already as NPCs, but some aspects might change when it's available to the player.

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im glad youre optimistic about it but my point was more in line of how it shouldnt have been the limited job this expansion

The bigger tragedy is that going by FFXIV's history it will likely be a man who does shady stuff but is super honorable, a scholar who studies animals or a brightly colored little cutesy job instead of a man-of-the-wild or feral dr doolittle sort of thing. Which would be much more interesting than just another noble outlaw, scholar or UwU chibi.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

The bigger tragedy is that going by FFXIV's history it will likely be a man who does shady stuff but is super honorable, a scholar who studies animals or a brightly colored little cutesy job instead of a man-of-the-wild or feral dr doolittle sort of thing. Which would be much more interesting than just another noble outlaw, scholar or UwU chibi.

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woah lets not diss the chibi. you have me at everything else but lets not get crazy

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

The bigger tragedy is that going by FFXIV's history it will likely be a man who does shady stuff but is super honorable, a scholar who studies animals or a brightly colored little cutesy job instead of a man-of-the-wild or feral dr doolittle sort of thing. Which would be much more interesting than just another noble outlaw, scholar or UwU chibi.

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Yeah, it certainly wouldn't be a pre-existing popular NPC that features the job itself.

We've already seen beastmasters fighting in Bozja, and thus far they are frontline combatants with one-handed axe and shield. They're not a blank slate.

Heck they missed an even bigger opportunity not making it a tank job. The beast master is tanking while the pets do damage/provide utility

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Originally Posted by rawker

Heck they missed an even bigger opportunity not making it a tank job. The beast master is tanking while the pets do damage/provide utility

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Was new information shared at the recent panel or are people just assuming it's a DPS?

If there's no new information then the Bozjan beastmasters could certainly function as a tank class. They even wear Neo-Ishgardian tank gear.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Was new information shared at the recent panel or are people just assuming it's a DPS?

If there's no new information then the Bozjan beastmasters could certainly function as a tank class. They even wear Neo-Ishgardian tank gear.

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If blue mage fills in the caster section, we might see BST under tank class then. But still, it's limited job.

Today's announcements were all geared to "release date", "what's in the collector's edition box", "specs to play the expansion (both PC/Mac)" and "yeah, there's going to be something like Eureka/Bozja".

Information about job changes won't get announced until at least mid-April during that 14-hour streaming marathon. Or, perhaps, during the Media Tour a month before go-live.

All limited jobs are wasted opportunity. There is nothing about Blue Mage, Beastmaster, or Puppet Master that requires the limit job archetype, nor the absurd restrictions that being a limited job comes with. Would it be more difficult to satiate that playstyle in XIV's current form? Sure. Is it impossible? Absolutely not, and we lost an interesting job to be relegated to a biyearly joke of a patch filler.

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Originally Posted by Flana

All limited jobs are wasted opportunity. There is nothing about Blue Mage, Beastmaster, or Puppet Master that requires the limit job archetype, nor the absurd restrictions that being a limited job comes with. Would it be more difficult to satiate that playstyle in XIV's current form? Sure. Is it impossible? Absolutely not, and we lost an interesting job to be relegated to a biyearly joke of a patch filler.

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to be fair i think they make them limited because of how powerful they are/can be, also would be a bit conflicting to have blu mage using the same primal powers that SMN can/should use but if they were to repurpose the theme/concept of these classes then i can see them being more feasible for all content such beastmaster = ranger or keep the name and make it a tank or dps, Blu = illusionist? shaman? or something of its nature

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

to be fair i think they make them limited because of how powerful they are/can be, also would be a bit conflicting to have blu mage using the same primal powers that SMN can/should use but if they were to repurpose the theme/concept of these classes then i can see them being more feasible for all content such beastmaster = ranger or keep the name and make it a tank or dps, Blu = illusionist? shaman? or something of its nature

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BRDs have their own gimmick. Why can't BST have their own, on top of being a main job? Taming/breeding beasts could have been a sideline while they themselves have a loyal companion that will fight alongside them, at all time.

Just to share the post I made from reddit proposing BST as a tank job.
link to post

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Originally Posted by rawker

BRDs have their own gimmick. Why can't BST have their own, on top of being a main job? Taming/breeding beasts could have been a sideline while they themselves have a loyal companion that will fight alongside them, at all time.

Just to share the post I made from reddit proposing BST as a tank job.
link to post

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i would say its the difference in the ability of the gimmick, BRD performance doesnt really have any world/battle application like using the power of a diety or monster, im not saying im against the idea in fact i like your suggestion however i can only imagine that if limited jobs were to become main jobs but with a side benefit then it might create an expectation for other jobs both new& current and while i think that would be cool, the devs/company however dont seem to want to invest in fully broadening any of the classes identity/originality anymore considering they removed job quests as well as few other examples that i dont have the energy at the moment to get into.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

im glad youre optimistic about it but my point was more in line of how it shouldnt have been the limited job this expansion

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i dont think the problem is limited jobs so much as they are *too* limited
they should be able to reach current level cap just dont let them queue for current tier raids/criterions, it doesn't feel worth it to solo old content with these jobs when they're always weaker than my main jobs...

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

i dont think the problem is limited jobs so much as they are *too* limited
they should be able to reach current level cap just dont let them queue for current tier raids/criterions, it doesn't feel worth it to solo old content with these jobs when they're always weaker than my main jobs...

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i dont have any issue with the concept of a limited job, well not exactly but my point was that they made the wrong class a limited job instead of beastmaster being the limited job for this expansion it should have been pictomancer considering that they could have integrated the sight seeing aspect of the game with the job further incentivizing engagement with another feature in the game, as well as other possibilities

DNC mains could ask for the same but all the emotes related to dancing is more than enough or I may have been living in a cave for the past few years and didn't witness the uproar for a DNC counterpart of BRD performances. Though I understand what you meant when one job is given a shiny toy, everyone will ask for one.

I am just very passionate about pet jobs in every mmorpg I play and as much as I want to stay with FFXIV because of SMN and SCH, what they did to the entire pet system makes me sad. When BST was relatively still teased or was conceptualized years back, I became very excited and hoped that it could be a tank job.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Yeah, it certainly wouldn't be a pre-existing popular NPC that features the job itself.

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You mean, the "noble outlaw"...? Yeah I had mentioned that archetupe too.

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Originally Posted by rawker

DNC mains could ask for the same but all the emotes related to dancing is more than enough or I may have been living in a cave for the past few years and didn't witness the uproar for a DNC counterpart of BRD performances. Though I understand what you meant when one job is given a shiny toy, everyone will ask for one.

I am just very passionate about pet jobs in every mmorpg I play and as much as I want to stay with FFXIV because of SMN and SCH, what they did to the entire pet system makes me sad. When BST was relatively still teased or was conceptualized years back, I became very excited and hoped that it could be a tank job.

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same, was bummed when they made selene just glamour and not the offensive side of sch's kit and she's not even my favorite, and for smn well lets hope DT gives us more summons, and beastmaster wouldve been cool to have a torgal or red 13 as a summon kinda like carby but actually useful, .....bad 14 carby you shame your ancestor

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

same, was bummed when they made selene just glamour and not the offensive side of sch's kit and she's not even my favorite, and for smn well lets hope DT gives us more summons, and beastmaster wouldve been cool to have a torgal or red 13 as a summon kinda like carby but actually useful, .....bad 14 carby you shame your ancestor

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Giving SCH even 1 offensive pet ability will greatly improve the broil mage meta we have.

In my experience with FF11, Beastmaster was one of the only classes that players would entirely solo with. So to me it really makes sense to make Beastmaster a Limited Job if they want to stay in-line with that.

Using the same logic, in FF11, DRK is a DPS job. In FF14, it is a tank job. So, does that mean that it makes sense that DRK should be DPS in FF14?

Honestly I think keeping it as a limited job is for the best. With the way encounters are designed, the currently jobs need to fit into a strict mold just to be balanced. I love the flexibility that Blue Mage has and it's ability to fulfill any role; some of the most fun I've had recently was doing 8-man blue mage fights for Binding Coil and Alexander Savage to get the Morbol mount. It makes you look towards other strategies that you couldn't do with a regular party. I've seen people cry for Blue Mage to be made into a DPS job, but that would mean removing the thing that makes it unique just so it can be balanced.

With Beastmaster, I like the idea of being able to utilize various monsters you've tamed... kinda like a Summoner who can actually control what their pets do instead of just summoning them for a second for a nuke. I'm hoping they also allow us to tame some of the more unique monsters, such as dungeon and raid bosses that don't appear anywhere else.

I do hope they expand what content limited jobs can do, though. I see no reason why they cannot allow them to go into Deep Dungeons, Eureka, and Bozja. For deep dungeons, just make it so they get different achievements for clearing them as to not diminish the effort other people have done with regular jobs.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Using the same logic, in FF11, DRK is a DPS job. In FF14, it is a tank job. So, does that mean that it makes sense that DRK should be DPS in FF14?

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I'll be honest, if we're talking about FF14 I don't feel like there's much of a difference between a melee DPS and a tank. That being the case, I think it's a fairly minor change to make a DPS into a tank.

I think it's a much bigger change to take Beastmaster's distinct solo gameplay loop and translate it to function inside a party. Certainly not impossible, of course. With games, the only limitation is what the designers can dream up and the programmers can code, so technically they could do anything. But in making Beastmaster a Limited Job, it seems likely that their intent is to provide something closer to what the experience was in FF11.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

In my experience with FF11, Beastmaster was one of the only classes that players would entirely solo with. So to me it really makes sense to make Beastmaster a Limited Job if they want to stay in-line with that.

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Ah yes, a solo job that won't actually be able to solo anything of value because limited job 'end game' is outdated 8-man raids. They made the same spiel about Blue Mage being a 'solo' job and that ended up being a farce so I have no idea why anyone thinks this is going to be different. Wow you can maybe solo an ancient dungeon if they actually remember to make a Basic Instinct analogue for giggles. Cool, now get back into PF and look for those raid clears you need for any kind of reward.

WAR can solo but isn't a limited job. Remember that.

have played ffxi and the beastmaster job for 11 years its a decent job and and i have played ffxiv sence arr went live and we always waited till new jobs came out to try them out and see how we like them and now for the first time all we can do is act like babys and wine cry and have tantrum's about a job that is still being worked on when this new expac comes out i will be their to try out these new jobs and give feed back on the good impressions and the bad ones and not cry like some intitled baby. no wonder the company tects don't care to hear what you have to say.

With how "limited" content truly is in terms of projectory, why would you want a limited job that limits it further? That seems like a waste of time imo. If they are going to continue making limited jobs without releasing them as main jobs, maybe they should think how they can affect the already pre-existing jobs, since anyone can unlock and become a limited job. Maybe by progressing the limited jobs you could gain a buff (idk what this would entail) or something when playing in the same role type as said limited job based on what level said job was (or based around how much x you collected on said job.) It would give them some appeal in terms of leveling them. Maybe also allow jobs of the same type to inherit one skill from said limited job as a throwback to the cross-class system, with limitations of course.

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Originally Posted by george357

have played ffxi and the beastmaster job for 11 years its a decent job and and i have played ffxiv sence arr went live and we always waited till new jobs came out to try them out and see how we like them and now for the first time all we can do is act like babys and wine cry and have tantrum's about a job that is still being worked on when this new expac comes out i will be their to try out these new jobs and give feed back on the good impressions and the bad ones and not cry like some intitled baby. no wonder the company tects don't care to hear what you have to say.

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my guy the game's been out for 10+ yrs theres not gonna be that much thats gonna be a surprise in how the jobs are played especially when it comes to the topic of a limited job, so if you wanna sit on your thumbs and let the devs piss in your face and tell you its raining then thats on you, id rather be more proactive considering they do things without consideration of the fans/players, removing various modes from pvp that nobody asked to get rid of, instilling a cooldown system thats made everyone think that the jobs are homogenized but in reality its the devs being lazy then trying to blame the players for it, hitboxes being the size of a football field, the list goes on & on, if it wasnt for the criticism/feedback people give to this game whether its after release or something preemptive we'd still have living dead still being a shitshow of an invul, gnb in pvp not being able to target to party members, tomes being capped at 450 and again the list goes on & on also this isnt even touching on the fact that without criticism you wouldnt have been able to even start at ARR because the game wouldve been dead with 1.0, in all honesty i was wondering when a company boot licker would show up, took you longer than expected though but if youre suggestion is to wait & see then we can waste time to as you put it "cry & whine" after all is said & done, then by all means you keep enjoying those rainy days.

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Originally Posted by Katish

With how "limited" content truly is in terms of projectory, why would you want a limited job that limits it further? That seems like a waste of time imo. If they are going to continue making limited jobs without releasing them as main jobs, maybe they should think how they can affect the already pre-existing jobs, since anyone can unlock and become a limited job. Maybe by progressing the limited jobs you could gain a buff (idk what this would entail) or something when playing in the same role type as said limited job based on what level said job was (or based around how much x you collected on said job.) It would give them some appeal in terms of leveling them. Maybe also allow jobs of the same type to inherit one skill from said limited job as a throwback to the cross-class system, with limitations of course.

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what are saying by content being limited? because theres dungeons, fates, hunts, deep dungeon, variant dungeons, alliance raids, normal raids, ultimates, exploration zones/field ops, treasure maps and this is just the pve/battle content off the top of my head. a limited job can only access some of this, now im not opposed to the concept of a limited job entirely however i think that the execution/release of blu mage isnt something im excited to see be done to beastmaster and theres not a guarantee strong enough to support otherwise.

how often do think blu mage is played as compared to the other classes realistically? is this something you want for beastmaster?

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

what are saying by content being limited? because theres dungeons, fates, hunts, deep dungeon, variant dungeons, alliance raids, normal raids, ultimates, exploration zones/field ops, treasure maps and this is just the pve/battle content off the top of my head. a limited job can only access some of this now im not opposed to the concept of a limited job entirely however i think that the execution/release of blu mage isnt something im excited to see be done to beastmaster and theres not a guarantee strong enough to support otherwise.

how often do think blu mage is played as compared to the other classes realistically? is this something you want for beastmaster?

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I said limited in projectory, the content listed help the player to grow or utilize their job, blue mage in particular does not fit in this molding nicely because of how limited it feels to play. And the content it does have unique is very arbitrary given its mostly solo based and does not net you anything thing in the actual game. (Not even the glams, well outside maybe its class glams)

Its relic weapon ironically enough is locked behind variant dungeons which they cannot do...that in of itself shows you how much of a waste of time the job is lel...when they can't even do their own relic weapon.

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Originally Posted by Katish

I said limited in projectory, the content listed help the player to grow or utilize their job, blue mage in particular does not fit in this molding nicely because of how limited it feels to play.

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which is why id rather not have beastmaster subject to the same thing as blu mage

Even the bloody crafters have a relic questline now in each expansion shows how little effort goes into limited jobs, to say nothing of how pathetic the last update for BLU was. It's like I said before, easy patch filler they can throw out to spike numbers for a month before everyone drops it for another 2 years. What a fantastic use of a class concept. Truly nothing could have been better.

Just to chime in the blue mage thing, they can simply reduce potencies and force to commit to a role before queueing, ex. I use mimicry (tank), once i start queueing, i will not be able to switch to a different role unless i withdraw.

Now as for BST, the whole taming beasts thing can be relegated to a whole tree of quests exclusive to the job but will only have a pikachu that will always be by their side to fight.

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

Beastmaster could have been FFXIV's ranger a phys range dps with a whip or crossbow with the ability to summon/call animals for damage or buffs or whatever.

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This game handles pet gameplay really poorly. The animals would need to be baked in animations like RPR's avatar, but then, it completely defeats the purpose of a pet job where the selling point is the capacity of micromanaging more than 1 instance of character - plus we'd miss pet choice, which is also anothe selling point of a classic MMORPG pet handler class. Unless they have big plans to address that, I don't think this kind of job would be easily featured in the main cast.

Said that, I think BST is the perfect candidate for a limited job because they can fabricate an independent pet battle system for it, like WoW did with their previously cosmetic pets.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

This game handles pet gameplay really poorly. The animals would need to be baked in animations like RPR's avatar, but then, it completely defeats the purpose of a pet job where the selling point is the capacity of micromanaging more than 1 instance of character - plus we'd miss pet choice, which is also anothe selling point of a classic MMORPG pet handler class. Unless they have big plans to address that, I don't think this kind of job would be easily featured in the main cast.

Said that, I think BST is the perfect candidate for a limited job because they can fabricate an independent pet battle system for it, like WoW did with their previously cosmetic pets.

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I'd agree with you if there was evidence that they will handle beastmaster with the expectation you're holding out for them, given that the current implementation of the 1st limited job isn't something that is as interesting as it should be or could have been, itd be one thing if they implemented more content only a Blu mage can do thats not tied to its leveling, (like the carnival), also unfortunately much like how players & devs compared island sanctuary to something akin to stardew Valley or harvest moon it was anything but that and now we have players gearing themselves up to expect beastmaster will be the ffxiv version of Pokémon

Regarding your comment on the pet system I can't really say anything of its past quality but from my understanding it was better than our current setup but even so it's still something to base any type of speculation or desire on

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Originally Posted by RyanCousland

Regarding your comment on the pet system I can't really say anything of its past quality but from my understanding it was better than our current setup but even so it's still something to base any type of speculation or desire on

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This can easily be tested with SCH. Go summon your pet, order it to move around then click any pet ability like Whispering Dawn/Fey Illumination/Fey Blessing while it does not reach its destination. Once the pet goes to where you commanded it to go, it will immediately use the ability. There will only be a slight issue when you initially summon the pet, or it comes back either from Dissipation or Summon Seraph and then you immediately issue a command that is not Place/Stay/Heel/Guard/Steady.

The responsiveness is somewhat there.. Only thing missing that gives sluggish vibes to is that it moves at a snail's pace. Ideally, when we use an action/ability/spell/weapon skill, we are expecting it to do it right away. Think of pet movement as such.... Due to its slow base movement speed, it will take at most 5 seconds to reach its destination (depending distance). Also, it will greatly help with responsiveness if the pets can use actions/abilities as it is moving... similar to slide casting or to some extent, weaving.

Sadly to them, it will be a wasted opportunity not to make BLU/BST an additional side content, something to do during patch downtime

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Originally Posted by rawker

Just to chime in the blue mage thing, they can simply reduce potencies and force to commit to a role before queueing, ex. I use mimicry (tank), once i start queueing, i will not be able to switch to a different role unless i withdraw.

Now as for BST, the whole taming beasts thing can be relegated to a whole tree of quests exclusive to the job but will only have a pikachu that will always be by their side to fight.

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If we end up getting Puppet Master, we're more likely going to see the "forever Pikachu" pet with them instead of Beast Master having a "forever pikachu". While we may get a starter, it's likely to be a job that focuses on utilizing different pet's abilities while you do your own thing alongside them GCD and OGCD. But we'll see.

Squenix needed to include a new pet oriented job with likely all of its jank after they butchered summoner and carbuncle, so it being limited is not just to sort out the pet jank, but also to keep the job away from the parse brains that are too busy worshipping their magical abacus primal. But I look forward to seeing how the job will turn out.