Limit Breaks...what do you think?

For some reason, after going through the memorable NPC thread, I started thinking about Maat from FFXI and how it was quite memorable to defeat him to finally achieve the level cap of 75 way back when.

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/h...86/MaatPic.jpg

I actually had a great time preparing for that fight and when the fight finally came, taking him on alone and achieving success after a few attempts was thrilling for me.

What do you guys think? Would you like to see level caps met with limit breaks such as solo fights or challenging quests? I'm not entirely sure what they could do that would be fun for DoH/L though, for people who dont wish to be DoW.

And although I never did achieve my Maat's Cap...I thought it was a nice little symbol of achievement for other players. Though for this game I'd expect something a little better XD

I know this isn't FFXI, but it's just a thought.

hi mini.

you get this for getting all dow/dom to 50
http://www.ffxiv-db.com/tooltip/tooltip8013403.jpg


I'm confident they'll implement lvl cap quest as well

When level cap raises it does make sense to add in a quest or some kind of challenge. I did like the level caps back in the day, they were fun and something different to do (also designed to make you explore places you normally have no reason to beyond missions.)

I don't think we'll have any mentor type fights since in our final AF quest we generally fought someone who has a significance to us in a way, i.e WAR/DRG/MNK final fights. I hope it's more along the lines of level 55 and 96+ cap of some kind, exploring a far away land and fighting monsters to gain fragments to prove your worth.

The interview with Yoshi seemed to suggest that leveling would be driven by quests more than farming/grinding. I'm sure the quests will have bosses to them at some point.

I would actually vote yes.
It would be nice to require a person to do a "boss battle" to progress with their job.

Similar to FF11's SMN.
If you had every summon, people could trust you when you said you knew how to kite things.

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Originally Posted by Renen

Similar to FF11's SMN.
If you had every summon, people could trust you when you said you knew how to kite things.

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Or when you said you knew someone who knew how to kite and was willing to do so for a price.

I thought this thread was going to be about this.

Which btw I would really like implemented in some form in XIV. And I don't mean battle regimens.

i was thinking the same thing. I say we high jack the thread.. what's your guys favorite limit break? >:D

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Or when you said you knew someone who knew how to kite and was willing to do so for a price.

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Ahh the joy of FF11 SMN, that could beat almost everything with carby kiting.

I wouldn't be opposed to a test of personal skill to progress beyond 50, especially one that requires the person focus on everything that's happening and (more importantly) is thematic for each job.

Like a Monk would need to use Dragon Kick at the right time to Pacify a dangerous opponent's weapon skill, or switch his fist stance based off his opponent's shifting elemental weaknesses. A White Mage would have to keep an ally alive while being attacked by other enemies (sustaining himself and an ally under pressure). A Black Mage would need to rotate between crowd control and elemental spells while kiting to bring down a group of enemies alone (too tough to AoE down, too tough to Sleepga + kill one, kill next before Sleepga's diminished effect kicks in, etc.) Just as examples.

Frankly if this fight would be just "run up to the guy and hit it until it stops moving" then it'd be nothing more than irritating busywork and a gear check. That's not fun.
(This whole thing reminds of me of Cecil becoming a Paladin in FFIV, and how that was themed to the Paladin job quite nicely.)

As long as I don't have to farm for anything with the abysmal ancient papyrus drop rate.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

I wouldn't be opposed to a test of personal skill to progress beyond 50, especially one that requires the person focus on everything that's happening and (more importantly) is thematic for each job.

Like a Monk would need to use Dragon Kick at the right time to Pacify a dangerous opponent's weapon skill, or switch his fist stance based off his opponent's shifting elemental weaknesses. A White Mage would have to keep an ally alive while being attacked by other enemies (sustaining himself and an ally under pressure). A Black Mage would need to rotate between crowd control and elemental spells while kiting to bring down a group of enemies alone (too tough to AoE down, too tough to Sleepga + kill one, kill next before Sleepga's diminished effect kicks in, etc.) Just as examples.

Frankly if this fight would be just "run up to the guy and hit it until it stops moving" then it'd be nothing more than irritating busywork and a gear check. That's not fun.
(This whole thing reminds of me of Cecil becoming a Paladin in FFIV, and how that was themed to the Paladin job quite nicely.)

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This is a very nice input ^^ I highly agree that the fight should be a test of your ability to use/time your skills wisely...where one or two mistakes would mean downfall. I want a challenge. It's true that if the fight's too easy, it may as well not be added at all.
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And lol I had forgotten about the crown XD

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Also, that FFVII limit break video made me want to play the game again XD

I am not a fan of the idea of having to pass a test to level up. If you put in the time and effort then you should get the level. Having to pass a difficult test would make a lot of average players frustrated and drive them away from the game and making the test really easy makes it pointless so better to not have it.

I do see some signs of elitism on the board and I do understand the frustration of very good players taking on difficult content and feeling like they fail because their group has some average players in it. That's what hardcore endgame LSs are for.

I think there are a lot of people like me who have enjoyed other FF titles because of the stories but also because they offer you an alternative to getting around a difficult boss rather than trying over and over again until you perfect the strategy and do everything right. When I've encountered a difficult boss in FF games my response has always been the same, I go back, level up some more and come back when the fight is much more manageable. Having failed Ifrit a few times I am now patiently waiting for the level cap to be raised so I can eventually solo the big red bully:)

My problem with tests to level up is that they would not give me that option and rather than spending hours or days to practice my hand eye coordination and understanding of the fight, I would move on to something else. Of course, if there were tests like these everywhere I would soon have no place to move on to and at that point I would have no reason to play.

As long as it's a test to see how competent you are at playing your class. If it's going to involve farming an item with an extremely low drop rate or needless running around talking to NPC then don't, as that would just be a blatant time sink.

I would like something akin to the 2-Hour ability.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

As long as it's a test to see how competent you are at playing your class.

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This. This game needs a stupid filter. I don't want levelling to become a chore, but I'm tired of having to do content with people who have multiple level 50s, and still don't know what the fuck emnity is.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

As long as it's a test to see how competent you are at playing your class. If it's going to involve farming an item with an extremely low drop rate or needless running around talking to NPC then don't, as that would just be a blatant time sink.

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This.!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

This. This game needs a stupid filter. I don't want levelling to become a chore, but I'm tired of having to do content with people who have multiple level 50s, and still don't know what the fuck emnity is.

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There's that elitism I was talking about. I understand that it can be frustrating but are you seriously expecting the SE to tell people: "Sorry, you're not good enough to advance any further, perhaps you should consider playing a less demanding game."

In PUGs you have to expect to find players of different skill levels. If you want to avoid that then stick only to an endgame LS and do everything with them...or, all content could be scaled so it can be soloed, then you don't have to deal with players that don't measure up to your standards of excellence.

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

There's that elitism I was talking about. I understand that it can be frustrating but are you seriously expecting the SE to tell people: "Sorry, you're not good enough to advance any further, perhaps you should consider playing a less demanding game."

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Basic levels of competence are not too much to expect from players at the level cap.

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Originally Posted by Powercow

Basic levels of competence are not too much to expect from players at the level cap.

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...and who defines what basic level means? Is it always the same or should it vary with content? I just see this as a very slippery slope.

If they're using WoW as a model, I doubt there will be any limit break quests. In WoW, you get your level cap raised as long as you can properly register the newest expansion to your account. (And if you're too stupid to figure out how to do that, their billing department will probably be happy to help you out!) Hell, they recently had a Scroll of Resurrection promotion where current players could invite back a friend who hadn't played for a while (since prior to March, I think). The returning player got a free upgrade to the latest expansion, and was able to pick any character of their choice to be instantly upgraded to level 80 (the max level of the previous expansion), complete with gear (semi-crappy green gear, but still, full set).

FFXI is the only game I've ever played that had limit break quests, and while I personally didn't mind them, I knew a lot of people who quit over them. And by that I'm referring to the ones before Maat as well as the Maat fight.

I think I was actually more proud of the level 60 cap limit break than the 70 cap one. I asked for help with it for a few days and didn't have much luck, so I read up on it as best I could, and soloed it. It took forever (having to do the quest in Davoi for the crimson red orb was quite time consuming) and introduced me to some gear I previously had never used (I used powder boots on my RDM to get behind the door at the top of Castle O).

In retrospect, what I did wasn't really that big of a deal, but after I finished that quest, I felt awesome. My heart was racing as I dashed up the ramp to get the ??? before the Yagudo High Priest spotted me, and as I CS Warp'd out of there, I was shrieking with delight.

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Originally Posted by Cynthis

...and who defines what basic level means? Is it always the same or should it vary with content? I just see this as a very slippery slope.

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Holy shit are you really defending the people who don't take the time to skim the Lodestone for 10 minutes just to get an idea on how the game works?

Also, I'm far from an elitist, I just dislike playing with people who cannot learn how to read. I run a bunch of my newer LS members through older content fairly regularly. That's a neat assumption, though.

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Originally Posted by Isaveron

As long as it's a test to see how competent you are at playing your class.

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So..exactly like the fight the OP was talking about that you failed to read? Understood, though last you said you never played FFXI past level 10 so I guess you didn't realize that.

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My problem with tests to level up is that they would not give me that option and rather than spending hours or days to practice my hand eye coordination and understanding of the figh

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Unless you exploited Necrologis pages back in the day (wouldn't doubt it) or sat on your ass and got powerleveled (again wouldn't doubt it) there's really nothing wrong with this because if you know your job and how to play the game, a test would be almost nothing. Even RDM fight was built around a player knowing how to play the job more than a MP battery.

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Of course, if there were tests like these everywhere I would soon have no place to move on to and at that point I would have no reason to play

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You'd really quit if you had do some work? Is that really how far MMOs have fallen?

I think the paragon's crown, and most of the other crowns, look kind of silly.. I always /display head off when I wear mine .__. Maat's cap was really cool.. not to mention everyone and their mother has a paragon's crown, it holds no worth.

- In other words, add limit breaks, make them hard, give us an item to gloat about.. I rarely saw people with maat's cap, and when I did I knew they were BA.. That isn't the case anymore, but it should be.

Limit breaks? YES PLEASE.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Holy shit are you really defending the people who don't take the time to skim the Lodestone for 10 minutes just to get an idea on how the game works?

Also, I'm far from an elitist, I just dislike playing with people who cannot learn how to read. I run a bunch of my newer LS members through older content fairly regularly. That's a neat assumption, though.

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All I am saying is that as soon as we start to draw a line saying some players are not good enough and that they should be excluded from some things then I think by definition we are being elitist and we are also limiting the number of potential players who subscription helps pay for new endgame content. It was not a personal attack, I see this kind of things all over the forum, not just in the casual vs endgame threads and I wanted to say my piece. There, I'm done.

I've never once thought someone was badass for holding an achievement in a video game of which the entire premise is predicated by time spent playing the game.

Spoilers: Maat's cap, fucking lol.

How dare you try to stop me from reaching the level cap in a mere day!

Level cap quests? As long as it's something simple that doesn't halt the entire grind like it did back in the old days.

If anything else, a very firm {No thanks.}

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Originally Posted by Yucie

Level cap quests? As long as it's something simple that doesn't halt the entire grind like it did back in the old days.

If anything else, a very firm {No thanks.}

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Your idea's boring ;p
I like more content...and I don't mind receiving a challenge once in a while.

Besides...don't you think leveling is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too easy now? It's not like it's a huge hindrance to add a challenging single-player fight to raise cap on jobs you can max out in 2 weeks.

I have 3 jobs maxed already and another one coming close...it took me FOUR YEARS to get ONE job to lvl 75 in FFXI! (I change jobs a lot >.>...and fool around even more...leveling has never really been my top priority) And I only returned and made this character a few months ago.

Besides, considering so many people are complaining about players not knowing how to play their jobs correctly, this might be a good challenge that could help improve their ability. So yeah, I think they should be held at a certain level until they can get past a fight.

I'm not saying make the fights IMPOSSIBLE, but at least challenging. It would also hold people a little lower for a bit longer to help out with lower level content getting a boost in quality in my opinion. There's too much end-game content and not enough lower level content...which atm is understandable because, as I said, people are maxing out their characters way too fast.

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Originally Posted by Spy

Your idea's boring ;p
I like more content...and I don't mind receiving a challenge once in a while.

Besides...don't you think leveling is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too easy now? It's not like it's a huge hindrance to add a challenging single-player fight to raise cap on jobs you can max out in 2 weeks.

I have 3 jobs maxed already and another one coming close...it took me FOUR YEARS to get ONE job to lvl 75 in FFXI! (I change jobs a lot >.>...and fool around even more...leveling has never really been my top priority) And I only returned and made this character a few months ago.

Besides, considering so many people are complaining about players not knowing how to play their jobs correctly, this might be a good challenge that could help improve their ability. So yeah, I think they should be held at a certain level until they can get past a fight.

I'm not saying make the fights IMPOSSIBLE, but at least challenging. It would also hold people a little lower for a bit longer to help out with lower level content getting a boost in quality in my opinion. There's too much end-game content and not enough lower level content...which atm is understandable because, as I said, people are maxing out their characters way too fast.

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There's more endgame content right now because SE is working to cater towards the players that have been here the longest, which is perfectly fine by me.

Also, back in the day, you remember parchments in Eldieme, as well as the other stupid items you were required to find before breaking that genkai? Way back in the day, the droprate on that **** was so bad it took me a week of shouting for help, getting down in there, and spending 4-5 hours a day killing skeletons for that stupid piece of paper. That wasn't a challenge - it was ridiculous, and stupid quests like that shouldn't be there to inhibit people's pace of leveling, especially if that's what they enjoy.

Granted, the other quests weren't as ridiculous (Maat is up for debate, because I killed him in record time on my SAM and held that record for several months on Bahamut, and he was anything from easy to impossible-to-gauge, depending on job and gear), but as long as they're nothing like that, it could be alright. If it's something relatively simple, but challenging in size and scope - like defeating an NM - that's perfectly alright. But nothing based on droprates that aren't going to be anything more than plain ****ty.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

If it's something relatively simple, but challenging in size and scope - like defeating an NM - that's perfectly alright. But nothing based on droprates that aren't going to be anything more than plain ****ty.

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Amen, I'm all for throwing down with an NM or a NPC required to continue leveling. Please please no stupid farming for items in an area that is insanely difficult to navigate as a lower level class. I spent days getting the scroll to beat maat my first try.

We already have Quests at given intervals, only problem is this game was made to solo so they're too easy and they're not mandatory to level.

I do not mind level cap quests, but one thing I want to happen that I really diddn't see in FFXI was have such limit break quests be tied to the game's lore. Something that makes the breach of self limits really feel like it was something of signifigance to yourself and the world around you.

For the classes in the game outside Blue Mage, Puppetmaster, Corsair, Dancer, and Scholar, there did not feel any significance, you beat up an old man and watched him reminisce about the growing of Jeuno. It didn't matter what job you did it on, which kinda make those core jobs feel flat and uniform.

If I'm going to break level cap on my lancer, I want that quest to be significant to my Lancer, like the Guild Leader taking me out for a trip to tell me I've hit a roadblock in my training, and assuring me through some sort of trial (perhaps involving Greenwrath, that I seem to be able to brazenly ignore) that I can go higher.

Or for my Gladiator, I get pitted in the Arena to press my skills, where I meet some rival that hands me my but, only to pick me up off my rump later on to tell me to keep at it cause I have potential.

I want the entirety of my level cap breaking experience to feel like it belongs to me as the classes I chose to bring up, not some silly generic fetch quest.

Anyways, those are my thoughts on it.

I do agree there should be limit break quests.

And i agree with the fact it should be a solo quest with your job, like the Maat fight. (or something different, but still solo).

Something that you can do that requires using the abilities of your job to succeed.

Although it's a party based game, it is nice to have some milestones that you have face alone to prove your worth.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

I've never once thought someone was badass for holding an achievement in a video game of which the entire premise is predicated by time spent playing the game.

Spoilers: Maat's cap, fucking lol.

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Holy eff!! Churchill plays this game?!

I decided I had too many relics in XI and that the game provided zero challenge.

So, I'm waiting for 2.0 and getting my character pimped. I don't think I'll keep playing if they turn it into an XI grindfest, keep the RNG type drop system with no progression aspects, or slow down content release if it actually does succeed.

Until then, yes