Yoshi-P says the secret to keeping Final Fantasy 14 fresh

This discussion is based on this article.

https://www.gamesradar.com/yoshi-p-says-the-secret-to-keeping-final-fantasy-14-fresh-is-taking-everything-thats-good-about-console-games-and-placing-it-into-the-mmo-world/#:~:text=Final%20Fantasy%2014%20producer%20Naoki%20Yoshida%2C%20lovingly%20referred,it%20like%20it%20isn%27t%20an%20MMO%20at%20all.


Apparently, not thinking of Final Fantasy 14 as an MMO is "the secret to not running out of ideas". Yoshi-P says the secret to keeping Final Fantasy 14 fresh is "taking everything that's good about console games and placing it into the MMO world".

My personal thoughts, I don't really know how to feel about this statement. I want to agree but then I look at what they did with FF16 and it feels like they did the exact opposite. They took FFXIV and threw it into a console game. If their idea of a console game is FF16 turned into an MMO (i.e FFXIV) then I just ain't got much faith in the game improving anymore beyond what we have currently have.

mmmm guess you'll have to quit then. byeeeeeeeeeeee!

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

mmmm guess you'll have to quit then. byeeeeeeeeeeee!

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Ah yes, the classic blind loyalist, "If you don't like the game's direction then just quit" motif.

We could use you in WoW Season of Discovery my friend.


I'm not joking, the game is the best MMO to still retain its MMO roots.

well, really what other thing is there to do? if you don't like the direction the game (or anything) really is going, you vote with your wallet and choose not to patronize said thing anymore. that's the biggest impact any one consumer of a product can do.

Do people really play this as a FF game (or a pseudo single player game), it seems anytime people are recommending FF games people always say “skip 11 and 14 they are MMO’s”

Of course casual players exist but are they really interesting in nothing but the story as a solo experience or is it because it’s both able to be played as a solo game but it’s also a social MMO, the discussion of MMO’s being solo friendly is a tale as old as time, is the casual playerbase coming from “this isn’t an MMO to me this is just a really long FF game” or is it coming from people who’ve always wanted a seriously casual friendly MMO but got pushed away from older MMO’s that discourage solo play

What world is he living in that he things this game is fresh lmao. It's been the same formula since ARR

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Do people really play this as a FF game (or a pseudo single player game), it seems anytime people are recommending FF games people always say “skip 11 and 14 they are MMO’s”

Of course casual players exist but are they really interesting in nothing but the story as a solo experience or is it because it’s both able to be played as a solo game but it’s also a social MMO, the discussion of MMO’s being solo friendly is a tale as old as time, is the casual playerbase coming from “this isn’t an MMO to me this is just a really long FF game” or is it coming from people who’ve always wanted a seriously casual friendly MMO but got pushed away from older MMO’s that discourage solo play

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I couldn't tell you honestly, but I usually assumed most casuals play because their friends are. Some enjoy the story while they do it, and others want to skip all the CS so they can get to doing casual content with their friends faster. I'd say it's a mix of everything but without being able to draft accurate sample sizes, I couldn't begin to tell you which side is more dominant.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

What world is he living in that he things this game is fresh lmao. It's been the same formula since ARR

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I know right? I was like, "Yoshida, I respect you and all but come on man. You gotta be a bit more aware with how the game actually is"

I've been defending this game for a tiny tiny bit because honestly the doomsaying is off the charts and i kinda feel like it doesnt deserve THIS much, but Yoshi P mentioning he's keeping things in FFXIV fresh is absolutely comedy, like really lol, i was talking about this with my partner earlier, it's the same thing over and over again, 1 raid, 1 alliance raid, some boring dungeons that have 0 difficulty and 1 ultimate, there is literally nothing fresh in this game and hasnt been anything fresh in years

this stuff reminds me of when Yoshi P said aether wasnt the hub for content and that no one went there to do it and that it was a JP thing only, how out of touch are these people honestly

I play this despite it being an MMO, not because of it. Count me in the I play it because it is a Final Fantasy game camp; to me it is a JRPG first, and I tend to encourage people who enjoyed the rest of the series to give this one a try.

I love XIV, I really really do. But more and more I feel like Yoshida should step down from directing this game.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

I love XIV, I really really do. But more and more I feel like Yoshida should step down from directing this game.

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I feel like he should stop doing interviews at the very least.

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Originally Posted by Turtledeluxe

I feel like he should stop doing interviews at the very least.

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The worst part is I feel like this may have been a one off comment, nd it's lacking a lot of major context. But at the same time, given the state of the game it's a 50/50.

Nothing against him on a personal level but yoshi’s “foot in mouth syndrome” seems to be getting worse and worse the longer the game goes on, even people who love the current state of the game love it because it never changes

Who is actively agreeing with this statement

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Nothing against him on a personal level but yoshi’s “foot in mouth syndrome” seems to be getting worse and worse the longer the game goes on, even people who love the current state of the game love it because it never changes

Who is actively agreeing with this statement

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A whole lot of people going by the GD's discussions. Then again, that might be your mistake in trusting the average GD poster, lol.

He's said many times that the secret is to allow people to shift their role around (allow different people to work on fights, stories or find new jobs when they get burned out), and strictly force them to take breaks and time off even if they don't want to, to avoid burnout.

So that is also your reason for the increased breaks they get between patches.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

He's said many times that the secret is to allow people to shift their role around (allow different people to work on fights, stories or find new jobs when they get burned out), and strictly force them to take breaks and time off even if they don't want to, to avoid burnout.

So that is also your reason for the increased breaks they get between patches.

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Can't burn out if all the patch content is clearable in 3 hours bar savage which is clearable in 2 days. No ones burning out on the game, we're burning out on the lack of a game to play lmfao.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

Can't burn out if all the patch content is clearable in 3 hours bar savage which is clearable in 2 days. No ones burning out on the game, we're burning out on the lack of a game to play lmfao.

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It's done so the ppl that only have 25 seconds a week to play video games have a chance of finishing content before the next paid expansion launches :P

They have tried new things, the issue is, imo, they try really hard to ensure those new things don't creep into the main game. Hence it's new yet feels like the exact same structure. You can see it in how they update most content too, if I had to stereotypically describe the most common way they engage with the game it's by continuing down the hall and adding a door for a room. Or in even more general, extremely little horizontal content and mostly vertical (linear). Like their improvements to Island or Blue, or whatever content, they do make changes but it'll very rarely expand a base and more likely touch the top.

So you get new stuff, in the same hall, in a sequestered space before you enter the hall again. Well all that and the older you are with the game the more streamlined you can envision the structure too (so SE is pretty consistent in how they add content and people will naturally mentally simplify over engagement and so structure becomes more and more obvious / predictable feeling even if some doors have something different).

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

It's done so the ppl that only have 25 seconds a week to play video games have a chance of finishing content before the next paid expansion launches :P

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I love how the guy with 8 kids, 4 jobs and 5 wives needs time to play before his long work week.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

I love how the guy wirh 8 kids, 4 jobs and 5 wives needs time to play before his long work week.

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You forgot the time working at the soup kitchen and all the doctors appointments to treat every condition listed on web md.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

You forgot the time working at the soup kitchen and all the doctors appointments to treat every condition listed on web md.

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I always found it so odd that people around here say the game is simplified so people who have busy lives can play and not feel overwhelmed. I'm a full time nurse and I WISH I had more to do xD

*sniffs* I love the smell of angry subs in the morning.

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Originally Posted by strawberrycake

I always found it so odd that people around here say the game is simplified so people who have busy lives can play and not feel overwhelmed. I'm a full time nurse and I WISH I had more to do xD

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I’m an anaesthesiologist, 100 hour work weeks aren’t uncommon to me, I still want more to play in this game

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

mmmm guess you'll have to quit then. byeeeeeeeeeeee!

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You would think it would be as simple as that. We have to be inundated by garbage troll posts daily instead. I know the op thinks their opinion matters. The question is why do they think it matters. I don't have a good answer for that one.

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

I want to agree but then I look at what they did with FF16 and it feels like they did the exact opposite. They took FFXIV and threw it into a console game.

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I have not played XVI, but I felt the exact same when FFXII was released following the success of XI.

TBH, Final Fantasy IX was the last FF console game that felt like one. I played X, X-2, and XII looking for that same feeling, and I gave up after that. In order to appeal to old school gamers such as myself, a FF console game must be turn based, have cartoonish characters, a strong RPG element (RPG/action is not it), a magic system, a great story that somehow incorporates summons like Shiva, Odin, Bahamut, etc. into it, and a memorable villain. I had a strong feeling, especially with Yoshi under the helm, that XVI would have strong elements from XIV baked into it. Since I do not have a PS5, I most certainly was not going to pitch 600 bucks for a high risk disappointment. I likely still would not have bought it even if it was released for PS4.

Nothing about XIV is fresh to me, but my interest in the game is not contingent on the game remaining fresh. It rests solely on the game being fun to play, and having something to work towards that won't be erased the following patch. This does not mean I don't want fresh content. It just means whether the content is new, expanded, updated, or refreshed, it needs to be fun to do. As an example if you fail a solo instance, the game gives you the option to do it with easier difficulty, but has it even dawned on this dev team to give the player an increased difficulty option before doing the instance the first time?

There is far too much pandering going on right now, and it is inflicting serious damage to this game.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

You would think it would be as simple as that. We have to be inundated by garbage troll posts daily instead. I know the op thinks their opinion matters. The question is why do they think it matters. I don't have a good answer for that one.

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I still find it funny you act like this when I swear I remmeber you saying how the idea of the game changing scares you. We get it, the idea of the world funtionally moving forward is a scary concept. Too bad it's gonna happen like it or not.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I have not played XVI, but I felt the exact same when FFXII was released following the success of XI.

TBH, Final Fantasy IX was the last FF console game that felt like one. I played X, X-2, and XII looking for that same feeling, and I gave up after that. In order to appeal to old school gamers such as myself, a FF console game must be turn based, have cartoonish characters, a strong RPG element (RPG/action is not it), a magic system, a great story that somehow incorporates summons like Shiva, Odin, Bahamut, etc. into it, and a memorable villain. I had a strong feeling, especially with Yoshi under the helm, that XVI would have strong elements from XIV baked into it. Since I do not have a PS5, I most certainly was not going to pitch 600 bucks for a high risk disappointment. I likely still would not have bought it even if it was released for PS4.

Nothing about XIV is fresh to me, but my interest in the game is not contingent on the game remaining fresh. It rests solely on the game being fun to play, and having something to work towards that won't be erased the following patch. This does not mean I don't want fresh content. It just means whether the content is new, expanded, updated, or refreshed, it needs to be fun to do. As an example if you fail a solo instance, the game gives you the option to do it with easier difficulty, but has it even dawned on this dev team to give the player an increased difficulty option before doing the instance the first time?

There is far too much pandering going on right now, and it is inflicting serious damage to this game.

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You really hit the mark with this post. And it's something I've said before myself. You can make a game that gives people the casual content they need and want, while still making engaging content that rewards players who want to around a lot. EVen with the focus on *single player* this exapnsion they could have done that. I wish I could know why they don't see it.

The game is stagnating, and I know big changes are coming, even if Yoshida is not a friend of big changes at all. FFXIV is a business that for now runs well, so why change a formula that already works? That is the mindset of Yoshida and CBU III and IV.

The game needs to introduce some major changes to its core because people are slowly leaving due to the repetitive formula.

In Yoshida's words and I quote: "Dawntrail is going to te a revolution like 'A Realm Reborn', the game will be reborn once more". I'm not sure what that means. But I do think a "specialization" system with 2 specializations per job would be the way to go at this point, instead of adding new jobs every expansion. Either that or the job/subjob system that made FFXI so successful back in its time, but of course adapted to fit into FFXIV properly. The lazy excuse of "it's hard to balance" does not work here. That's pure dev laziness translation for "we don't want to work on balancing this or that".

Also, limit break should be individual and every character in an instanced dungeon should have their own individual limit break bar instead of one shared by the entire party.

We know DRG and AST are set for a rework and we'll see that in a few months probably. We're due another keynote with job changes and new skills but I think that precisely that pending keynote is going to be something quite big that will affect the game's core. So they're saving it for the last.

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Originally Posted by Ryskim

The game is stagnating, and I know big changes are coming, even if Yoshida is not a friend of big changes at all. FFXIV is a business that for now runs well, so why change a formula that already works? That is the mindset of Yoshida and CBU III and IV.

The game needs to introduce some major changes to its core because people are slowly leaving due to the repetitive formula.

In Yoshida's words and I quote: "Dawntrail is going to te a revolution like 'A Realm Reborn', the game will be reborn once more". I'm not sure what that means. But I do think a "specialization" system with 2 specializations per job would be the way to go at this point, instead of adding new jobs every expansion. Either that or the job/subjob system that made FFXI so successful back in its time, but of course adapted to fit into FFXIV properly. The lazy excuse of "it's hard to balance" does not work here. That's pure dev laziness translation for "we don't want to work on balancing this or that".

Also, limit break should be individual and every character in an instanced dungeon should have their own individual limit break bar instead of one shared by the entire party.

We know DRG and AST are set for a rework and we'll see that in a few months probably. We're due another keynote with job changes and new skills but I think that precisely that pending keynote is going to be something quite big that will affect the game's core. So they're saving it for the last.

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I can def agree with htis, but we also run into the issue of them playing into the bit way too long and way too hard. To Say there is no change coming would be a massive lie, the problem is that they never like to just sit down and tell us all the new neat shit they are working on that will keep people.

I guess the best way to put it is, They wanna throw a surprise party but not everyone cares for surprises.

I feel like they always spend alot of time hyping up changes that mean nothing or go nowhere remember when SB’s most exciting feature was being able to swim and dive, and then it turned out to be nothing at all

I don’t doubt change is coming with DT but I don’t know it’s going to be the actual type of change people are looking for

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Originally Posted by Ryskim

The game is stagnating, and I know big changes are coming, even if Yoshida is not a friend of big changes at all. FFXIV is a business that for now runs well, so why change a formula that already works? That is the mindset of Yoshida and CBU III and IV.

The game needs to introduce some major changes to its core because people are slowly leaving due to the repetitive formula.

In Yoshida's words and I quote: "Dawntrail is going to te a revolution like 'A Realm Reborn', the game will be reborn once more". I'm not sure what that means. But I do think a "specialization" system with 2 specializations per job would be the way to go at this point, instead of adding new jobs every expansion. Either that or the job/subjob system that made FFXI so successful back in its time, but of course adapted to fit into FFXIV properly. The lazy excuse of "it's hard to balance" does not work here. That's pure dev laziness translation for "we don't want to work on balancing this or that".

Also, limit break should be individual and every character in an instanced dungeon should have their own individual limit break bar instead of one shared by the entire party.

We know DRG and AST are set for a rework and we'll see that in a few months probably. We're due another keynote with job changes and new skills but I think that precisely that pending keynote is going to be something quite big that will affect the game's core. So they're saving it for the last.

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I hate to say it but if they don't actually change anything about combat/encounter design then a spec system would be functionally worthless. the benefits of such systems is the ability to make jobs more versatile and customizable across a variety of content, but this game does not have that level of variety (not counting Eureka/Bozja because they already have their own form of job customization with essences/lost actions).

whenever this topic comes up I always see people immediately and mindlessly parrot "nooo we can't have specs/subclasses because people will just pick whatever is most viable" as if they don't realise that raiding is not the only form of content people play in an MMO, however when it comes to XIV the problem is that dungeons and boss fights is pretty much the whole game. don't get me wrong, I'd love any excuse to do away with the rigid trinity system XIV has, but we're kind of too far into the game's life and I realistically don't see them significantly changing encounter design to accommodate for things like specs/subs.

I mean, they could always make a middleground and just have the area zones that don't do anything except house FATEs and be set pieces for the MSQ be whole field instances on their own so essence/lost action gameplay is more prominent, but SE doesn't have the cajones...

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I feel like they always spend alot of time hyping up changes that mean nothing or go nowhere remember when SB’s most exciting feature was being able to swim and dive, and then it turned out to be nothing at all

I don’t doubt change is coming with DT but I don’t know it’s going to be the actual type of change people are looking for

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Im not usually a doomer in that regard, but it's true that sometimes they put a ton of emphasis on minor aesthetical things. I can see Dawntrail's version being LADDERS. One of area trailers featured a character climbing a ladder, if memory serves me right, so I could see it being same to DT as underwater was to Stormblood and the NPC Following You Around And Talk Points With Them for Endwalker.

This game is a great social sim & decent story, or if you like dance fights, but not much outside of that. Not to say I dislike the game, as I enjoy it but that's mainly for interactions and not the content as much anymore.

The issue isn't even that it's stagnated or stayed the same, the Issue is that all the "innovation" that the game has had is removing something that was seen as "annoying" to players, with nothing to replace it, all of the recent innovations have been Visual upgrades, New glams, Portraits, Ui Improvements. I guess PvP? but that suffers from the ingame latency.

The Issue especially for the PVE combat system, the core of the game isn't that the job design has changed, it's the fact that the only changes have been to remove something or make something the exact same, because the Idea that one job can't perform slightly better or have meaningful upsides has led to the current design, At the end of the day you can balance everything by making it all function the same but the fact is then that it will lack Varity outside visual differences.

Personally I want PvE job design to improve as it will make redoing things on a different job feel like a new experience, it would certainly improve long waits before story or new fight content more interesting for me. I'm not even asking for it to be like older expansions, because a lot of the things from older expansions were removed for a good reason (not all).

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Originally Posted by Bonoki

This discussion is based on this article.

https://www.gamesradar.com/yoshi-p-says-the-secret-to-keeping-final-fantasy-14-fresh-is-taking-everything-thats-good-about-console-games-and-placing-it-into-the-mmo-world/#:~:text=Final%20Fantasy%2014%20producer%20Naoki%20Yoshida%2C%20lovingly%20referred,it%20like%20it%20isn%27t%20an%20MMO%20at%20all.


Apparently, not thinking of Final Fantasy 14 as an MMO is "the secret to not running out of ideas". Yoshi-P says the secret to keeping Final Fantasy 14 fresh is "taking everything that's good about console games and placing it into the MMO world".

My personal thoughts, I don't really know how to feel about this statement. I want to agree but then I look at what they did with FF16 and it feels like they did the exact opposite. They took FFXIV and threw it into a console game. If their idea of a console game is FF16 turned into an MMO (i.e FFXIV) then I just ain't got much faith in the game improving anymore beyond what we have currently have.

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FFXVI looks more like Devil may cry to me with a XIV skin on it. Honestly I kind of like it, I just wish I could play it.

I dunno about freshness, some stuff about 14 is fresh but usually when they try new things everyone says they hate it then they want it back an expansion or two later.

I don't really mind what he said all that much. I've more than got my moneys worth from the game.

All that aside though, he's responding to a question so its kind of like what do you want him to say.

Might help to include the entire paragraph from the very short article (rest of the article doesn't even talk about what he says).

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In a group Q&A session (translated by Automaton) during the Final Fantasy 14 Fan Festival 2024 in Tokyo, Yoshi-P explained what he thinks compels players to continue playing the enduring MMO some 14 years after its initial release. The producer said approaching the drawing board with an open mind not limited by the confines of a traditional MMO is "the secret to not running out of ideas." He added that, along with thinking of the game in the context of a Final Fantasy game instead of an MMO, "taking everything that's good about console games and placing it into the MMO world" is key to keeping things fresh.

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Already off to a bad start. The author is just copying part of a summary of a summarized translation of a long joint media interview article.

This is the original translated summary: https://automaton-media.com/en/news/20240110-25344/

Here's the original article if you read JP or want to use Google Translate for it: https://automaton-media.com/articles...240110-278529/

Google translates what appears to be the relevant paragraph as:

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Another way to avoid running out of ideas is that if you were to make FFXIV thinking of it as an MMO, you would run out of ideas. In that respect, I was really lucky to be part of ``Final Fantasy.'' It's a game that grew up on consoles, and many Japanese people, especially those of us who are the main generation of developers, didn't start playing games with MMOs, and there are still many who grew up with offline gaming experiences of home video games. Surprisingly, the MMO industry hasn't taken on the challenge of seeing what would happen if that idea were turned into an MMO. I think this is the strength of ``FFXIV'', and it allows you to think of ideas like ``What would you do in FF,'' or ``What would be fun to do as a new FF,'' in an MMO. Surprisingly, I think this is the secret to not running out of ideas. It's like the freshness of translating the goodness of consoles into the world of MMOs.

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Sounds to me like YoshiP is talking more about how to adapt things that were popular in the previous Final Fantasy games into MMOs, especially FFXIV in this case. I suppose that works for getting ideas but those ideas aren't new ones. They're remakes of old ideas. Certainly they're a way of getting the attention of those who have fond memories of playing the games that originally had those ideas in the past but are those ideas as satisfying the second time around?

Reuse of names is fine. Reuse of details beyond the name to the point that what we will be getting is mostly predictable by those who played the original isn't. That's where 6.x MSQ fell flat. Too many players knew more or less where the story was going before it was even released.

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Originally Posted by Ryskim

The game is stagnating, and I know big changes are coming, even if Yoshida is not a friend of big changes at all. FFXIV is a business that for now runs well, so why change a formula that already works? That is the mindset of Yoshida and CBU III and IV.

The game needs to introduce some major changes to its core because people are slowly leaving due to the repetitive formula.

In Yoshida's words and I quote: "Dawntrail is going to te a revolution like 'A Realm Reborn', the game will be reborn once more". I'm not sure what that means. But I do think a "specialization" system with 2 specializations per job would be the way to go at this point, instead of adding new jobs every expansion. Either that or the job/subjob system that made FFXI so successful back in its time, but of course adapted to fit into FFXIV properly. The lazy excuse of "it's hard to balance" does not work here. That's pure dev laziness translation for "we don't want to work on balancing this or that".

Also, limit break should be individual and every character in an instanced dungeon should have their own individual limit break bar instead of one shared by the entire party.

We know DRG and AST are set for a rework and we'll see that in a few months probably. We're due another keynote with job changes and new skills but I think that precisely that pending keynote is going to be something quite big that will affect the game's core. So they're saving it for the last.

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agree on all of this

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

well, really what other thing is there to do? if you don't like the direction the game (or anything) really is going, you vote with your wallet and choose not to patronize said thing anymore. that's the biggest impact any one consumer of a product can do.

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If only there was a place where players could discuss the strengths and weaknesses of an ongoing game, a place where feedback could be given and discussions about said feedback could be given with the mindset of communicating that feedback, and what feedback is sound, to the development team that could make more informed decisions about how to approach things in regards to that feedback. Something like an official forum that players are regularly directed to specifically for giving feedback and suggestions.

FF14 is not fresh, it is a FF take on MMO. Thats it. And since ARR the formula stayed the same.

Also what the heck means "concolse game" ?
Its a game with a certain aesthetic or control sheme?
God of War and Monster Hunter World are damn good games. I played all of them on PC and console and none of them were a "pc game" or "console game" except control's and first release platform. Besides those 2 points there is no diffrence.
Sorry but he is like a TikTok LifeCoach "Water is wet, fire hot and if you eat less Burger King its better for you". What is his next take ? "if you put water on a heat source it boils" Sorry but this man needs PR Training or a break, maybe both.

Otherwise, looking at other games and taking whats good and fun and implement it in FF14 is a good idea.
Question is, at what point does this begin aka "When?" (<---- This is a joke)