What if Critical Hit was crit chance and Direct Hit was crit damage?

I don't know, I don't like the idea of having two crit stats and one of them is worse. There's nothing really wrong with it, I just don't like it. I'd rather if one was damage and the other was chance.

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Originally Posted by Vandso

I don't know, I don't like the idea of having two crit stats and one of them is worse. There's nothing really wrong with it, I just don't like it. I'd rather if one was damage and the other was chance.

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yeah it's kinda pointless when damage output is so regulated

It helps to know the history of Direct Hit.

Direct Hit used to be called Accuracy. In the past, there was not a 100% chance to land a hit. If you did not land a hit successfully, then your combo did not continue and obviously your damage took a big hit as a result.

You would stack Accuracy to reach 100% Accuracy so that you never miss. This was basically regarded as essential for raiding. But you know, it sucks to miss and felt like "why". Why does the default make you miss and make the game unplayable?

So they tried to do Accuracy in a different way, where the default experience doesn't ruin your ability to execute combos and things like that. That is how Direct Hit was born.

The idea of Direct Hit is that while the default experience is fine, if you stack it, then your hits can be more accurate (aka more direct), which they achieved by making it similar to crit.

But that created the obvious comparisons to crit and how it was almost the same on a fundamental level. I can see both perspectives of it, but I also don't see a lot of alternatives that aren't just the same thing.

Even in other games that have done lots of stats, they often end up more or less the same and you're choosing between things that amount to the same result: increasing damage, or making you take less damage.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Even in other games that have done lots of stats, they often end up more or less the same and you're choosing between things that amount to the same result: increasing damage, or making you take less damage.

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Yet part of what can make a game interesting is choosing how you're going to increase your damage.

Crit Hit and Direct Hit are too powerful together when both do the same things. Make one the chance to crit and the other the crit damage modifier and you've introduced choice that doesn't currently exist. One job may benefit more from increased chance to crit while another might benefit more from increased crit damage depending on what abilities each job has.

Spell and Skill Speed are more stats that SE should re-evaluate. Your job type dictates which one will work for you so they could easily be a single stat. Or better if one lowers GCD and the other lowers cast/re-cast timers regardless of job type.

A place might even be created for Determination to be valuable early in an expansion when the lower stat budgets on gear make it less likely to valuable thresholds to be met in the other stats and even continue to be valuable when frequency of crits outweighs other considerations. That can't happen with Crit Hit and Direct Hit both pulling double duty.

There will still be the theorycrafters coming up with stat priorities that other players will blindly follow without understanding any of it. But players that pay little attention to the theorycrafters will have more distinct options in their stats choices than they currently have. Some of that feeling of homogenization would disappear.

Crit Rate and Crit Damage/Crit Healing are very effective stats in other modern games and have a stronger balance because they are connected to one another. The power of crit is split between two stats.

I’d also take it a step further and have them be represented with flat % values instead of abstract numerical values. Like gear maybe offers an additional 3% or 5% crit rate (depending on if it’s there higher or lower stat on that particular gear piece), and maybe you add 8% or 13% crit damage/crit healing with gear. That value may stay the same between item levels, which makes the stat growth more controlled—i levels power creep content less because it’s just your strength/dex/int/mind that you’re building with ilevel gear. You could could do something similar with determination, attack speed, and the like as well.

Problem is that the stats we have barely do anything as is, further reducing them will just make it worse.

I think substats need a overhaul In general
Crit, DH being made into one being the chance and the other being damage seems good, I think the current crit/dh scales way too well.
Skill/spell speeds need to be merged, I'd like it if it was also on par with crit/dh scaling for most classes, as you could run a more faster build that's generally more consistent.

Piety/tenacity being more "utility" focused sounds good on paper but the benefits of them are so low, I think theirs possibilities of having special separate meld able stats for defensive, heal rate, utility ect. Could be creative with it like one stat boosting max HP with heal rate, or another boosting defensive cooldowns on tanks.

I also think you should be able to quick switch from melds and maybe even have meld sets but I doubt that.

I'd really love if we had offensive and utility substats separated by left and right sides of gear, so you wouldn't have to choose.

Make Tenacity a mitigation substat useful by anybody and put in there, so people would take it without compromising damage substats. Make it compete with other utilitarian stats like movement speed, a stat that reduces the impact of your damage down/vulnerability debuffs, a stat that reduces your brink of death's duration/impact, etc.

SpS and SkS defnitely should be merged into one 'Speed', but that's minor when you consider that the idea of this stat doesn't play well with most of jobs, and ironically it's the one that is most tangible on a playstyle sense. Is much easier to notice faster cast bars than a minor increase in your numbers (Det).

Piety, probably should benefit healers a bit more... or they could just make MP regen something that needs more management and thought for healers. What if the oGCD healing also had a minor MP cost, I wonder if that could be balanced well.

Direct Hit is the only stat I can't see a way to salvage. Despite of the history of how it got there, it's just too similar to Crit. WoW does have a substat called 'Mastery' which affects each class (job) in a different way (eg. in XIV it could add more %chance to DNC procs) - I didn't think too much on this, but I wonder if that kind of thing would work well here, with how tightly on-leashes the combat system is.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Crit Hit and Direct Hit are too powerful together when both do the same things. Make one the chance to crit and the other the crit damage modifier and you've introduced choice that doesn't currently exist. One job may benefit more from increased chance to crit while another might benefit more from increased crit damage depending on what abilities each job has.

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Its bad to make it a job thing that a diffirent stat is demanded. Its just a lazy way to have both of them usefull.

The current real problem however is the way these 2 stats stack, making it prefered to stack one to the extreme. An issue that also caused diablo3's damage values to become absurd with the proper gear (average gear vs perfect gear was a diffirence of several magnitudes, as in like dealing damage to the power of 2 compared to the average gear), its unhealthy to let numbers scale like this. It creates undesired power creep.

And this is where i think splitting the stats is better. Crit could still involve chance and damage both here, but DH should just be straight up crit damage. If we then make crit splitted into 2 substats per point, we can balance things further:

Lets say we use a calculation to which crit chance will near the 100% at a slower and slower pace. While making damage just scale linear.
This could mean that at 1000 points, crit chance is 10%, while at 2000 its 19% (each 1000 points grants 10% of the missing portion). Even if we then have 10000 points. Its just a case of 65.1%(0.9^10=0,349). It doesnt benefit from dumping endless points in anymore. And we can obviously scale that 0.9 value per expansion (so ARR could have been 0.5, HW 0.66 etc).
Crit vs DH can be a diffirence in which crit points count as 1. and DH as 1.5. Making DH prefered for raw damage.

It then gets to a point where you want to balance the values as much as possible. Which is a lot harder to calculate. And yes, im already going to assume online calculators will suggest which materia becomes best to meld for max damage. But for this we can still apply additional effects: the crit % is hidden, and has several stacks possible here. So an ability could be a single crit, double crit or triple crit. This makes it a lot harder to figure out the exact formula and values tied to each expansion. At that point those calculators are most likely going to be disrupted enough.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

It then gets to a point where you want to balance the values as much as possible. Which is a lot harder to calculate. And yes, im already going to assume online calculators will suggest which materia becomes best to meld for max damage. But for this we can still apply additional effects: the crit % is hidden, and has several stacks possible here. So an ability could be a single crit, double crit or triple crit. This makes it a lot harder to figure out the exact formula and values tied to each expansion. At that point those calculators are most likely going to be disrupted enough.

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Like with what I was saying above, we could avoid that by making gear not progressively add crit rate/crit damage as your ilevel increases. You still gain more attack power, defense/magic resist, and STR/DEX/INT/MND, but if a gear piece has a crit chance dominant stat (the stat that you cannot meld currently) that is always an increase of 5% crit rate regardless of whether its an ilevel 130 piece or an ilevel 660 piece, you have complete control over how much the community can ever have and future proofs that aspect of stat growth. You still want higher ilevels because of the primary values as said, but it becomes about different sets with different builds, and is also just way more player-friendly in terms of communicating information. If you aren't a number cruncher, you have no idea what it means to have an extra 300 critical hit stat. but you know exactly what an extra 5% is. And it can be lower than that as well, or dig into decimals if needed for balance.

On one hand I feel our items are pretty boring, on the other hand when I think of crit damage and crit chance I think of how Diablo 3 and 4 had been running from their superiority for a long while (Diablo 4 I believe made some major balance changes semi-recently on that though so perhaps they've found the sweet spot, though I'd say the sheer variety of stat types they have is just @_@;; "5% more damage when wet, the monster is hot, your fries are cold, and the moon is full- only on a Tuesday". Though comparing to D4, we are nearly to the point that you could just have ilvl and no stats, and materia might just add more ilvl when equipped lol. There is some nuance, especially if you have a sweet spot for skill / spell speed as you can feel the difference at that point. That said, I'll give credit in that they 'do something' are still don't destroy balance, which is a feat. Balancing in a multiplayer setting, of a roleplay environment, is one heck of a task.

Personally the more interesting things to do with items would not even be stat related but effect related. Could be an interesting pro and con for ultimate players but say brining FFIX equipment passive system (and similar FF, like FF7 Rebirth), with materia potentially related mechanics, into a system akin to WoW Season of Discovery runes and Enchanter (WoW isn't unique to these ideas, I just mentioned FFIX, but another reference simply for those who need it). I'd aim more for a permanent / horizontal like system. But that was a massive tangent to what people think of crit and crit chance. lol

I'd honestly be happy with substats in general changing to normalized percentage values, it prevents crit from becoming too powerful as the expansion goes on and makes syncing down more consistent. Item Level is still relevant because of the main stats and defences, so the need to gear up is still there. The biggest loss from normalizing the substats in this way would be the different tiers of Materia, I don't see the need for 10 different levels of Materia with normalized substats.

Anyway, for the main topic, yes I think Crit should affect only chance or power, not both, and Direct Hit should affect the other. Having both Crit and DHit as they are only makes the RNG on big potency attacks worse. While we're at it, merge Skill Speed and Spell Speed to a single stat, having them separate only hurts PLD and DRK for no good reason and disincentives them from picking up those stats at all. Speed has other issues as well that should be addressed, such as ability cooldowns not getting affected, likelihood of those cooldowns drifting in certain speed tiers, etc.

Piety and Tenacity could also be merged into a single stat that changes based on role, we'll call it Expertise or something along those lines. As a healer, it increases MP regen rate and healing potency, as a tank it increases defence and damage dealt, as a melee DPS it also increases defence and damage dealt, as a ranged DPS it increases movement speed and damage dealt, and as a caster DPS it reduces cast time (not recast time) and damage dealt. I'm sure others could create better effects for this new stat, I mostly just wanted to merge Ten and Pie while also providing something unique to all the DPS roles.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

I'd honestly be happy with substats in general changing to percentage values, it prevents crit from becoming too powerful as the expansion goes on and makes syncing down more consistent. Item Level is still relevant because of the main stats and defences, so the need to gear up is still there. The biggest loss from normalizing the substats in this way would be the different tiers of Materia, I don't see the need for 10 different levels of Materia with normalized substats.

Anyway, for the main topic, yes I think Crit should affect only chance or power, not both, and Direct Hit should affect the other. Having both Crit and DHit as they are only makes the RNG on big potency attacks worse. While we're at it, merge Skill Speed and Spell Speed to a single stat, having them separate only hurts PLD and DRK for no good reason and disincentives them from picking up those stats at all. Speed has other issues as well that should be addressed, such as ability cooldowns not getting affected, likelihood of those cooldowns drifting in certain speed tiers, etc.

Piety and Tenacity could also be merged into a single stat that changes based on role, we'll call it Expertise or something along those lines. As a healer, it increases MP regen rate and healing potency, as a tank it increases defence and damage dealt, as a melee DPS it also increases defence and damage dealt, as a ranged DPS it increases movement speed and damage dealt, and as a caster DPS it reduces cast time (not recast time) and damage dealt. I'm sure others could create better effects for this new stat, I mostly just wanted to merge Ten and Pie while also providing something unique to all the DPS roles.

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I quite like the expertise idea. Tenacity is interesting stat in that when I recall the breakdown (a while ago...) it was barely any damage lost but quite a decent amount of defensive power gained. Hilariously makes healers life even more boring though lol.

Spell and skill speed being the same makes a lot of sense, if there was a benefit to their separation that called for it then I'd agree but in this case it just makes the materia less attractive for two classes, which would definitely impact how you're going to meld in general if you share gear (due to two tanks not gaining as much benefit, sks/sps are less ideal).

The stats in FFXIV are almost just flavour text. Jobs don't have talent trees or sub-classes that can lead to varying play styles. They play how they play, and it's just a matter of how well you can do mechanics and optimize your rotation/cooldowns. Whether your gear has crit, direct hit, determination, etc., it's not going to change anything about how you navigate your kit.

Even if they reworked direct hit to be "crit chance," this still would change nothing gameplay-wise. In other games where you might have special buffs or effects that can trigger on a critical hit, then sure, that's a consideration you can theory-craft around. But in this game, crits just do more damage.

At this point, they might as well just hide the stats and simply say "This is item level 640 Scouting gear."

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Skill/spell speeds need to be merged

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Some jobs have both spells and weaponskills, so benefit from both. I agree it should be merged as well. It should just be called Skill Speed or Action Speed and work for both, changing effect based on if it's a weaponskill or a spell to consider the fact that casts affect your ability to do auto-attacks.

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Piety/tenacity being more "utility" focused sounds good on paper but the benefits of them are so low

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Tenacity is good, just not needed when tanks can survive some savage mechanics unmitigated that other roles cannot, so boosting the mitigation of cooldowns wouldn't help either. The most likely way they could get anyone to use it now is to make the damage equal to Determination's.

Piety right now could only be remotely useful if a healer is having MP management issues tbh. I don't want to say that veteran players don't have these issues because I'm not a healer main... but I don't have these issues personally. I even healed an extreme trial that can be a bit demanding on healers the other day and didn't have any issues and my build lacks Piety. Boosting max HP might be an appeal for healers that worry about dying, but even healers dying is less of a concern now that we have Red Mages and Summoners are more popular than ever. I'm not sure what else they could do for Piety that would make people want it other than just boringly increasing damage.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Piety and Tenacity could also be merged into a single stat that changes based on role

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I don't agree with that because using that logic, we could also merge all the main stats into Mastery like happens in other games ie. Intelligence, Dexterity, Strength, Mind. I don't support that because it would make the stat system even more boring and is more hand-holdy than even casual players require.

I mean we have stats in single players games and people have always worked with them, we really don't need to go so far as to combine them all into one.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Some jobs have both spells and weaponskills, so benefit from both. I agree it should be merged as well. It should just be called Skill Speed or Action Speed and work for both, changing effect based on if it's a weaponskill or a spell to consider the fact that casts affect your ability to do auto-attacks.

Tenacity is good, just not needed when tanks can survive some savage mechanics unmitigated that other roles cannot, so boosting the mitigation of cooldowns wouldn't help either. The most likely way they could get anyone to use it now is to make the damage equal to Determination's.

Piety right now could only be remotely useful if a healer is having MP management issues tbh. I don't want to say that veteran players don't have these issues because I'm not a healer main... but I don't have these issues personally. I even healed an extreme trial that can be a bit demanding on healers the other day and didn't have any issues and my build lacks Piety. Boosting max HP might be an appeal for healers that worry about dying, but even healers dying is less of a concern now that we have Red Mages and Summoners are more popular than ever. I'm not sure what else they could do for Piety that would make people want it other than just boringly increasing damage.

I don't agree with that because using that logic, we could also merge all the main stats into Mastery like happens in other games ie. Intelligence, Dexterity, Strength, Mind. I don't support that because it would make the stat system even more boring and is more hand-holdy than even casual players require.

I mean we have stats in single players games and people have always worked with them, we really don't need to go so far as to combine them all into one.

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If PIE and TEN did something for the other jobs I'd agree but they don't so I'm not sure how it damages anything besides reduced clutter and actually increased opportunity. I don't think comparing it to main stats is quite right given main stats usually have purpose even in single player games, like even for the jobs that don't focus that stat. For example in D4 they do things for all jobs, or in DND like games there is a reason you might hybrid even just a little.

I suppose they don't have to be combined but given I have limited inventory id take more for less than more for more lol. Is it a roleplay concern? Might see that, given it reduces the concept of consistency of affection for QoL.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If PIE and TEN did something for the other jobs I'd agree but they don't so I'm not sure how it damages anything besides reduced clutter and actually increased opportunity. I don't think comparing it to main stats is quite right given main stats usually have purpose even in single player games, like even for the jobs that don't focus that stat. For example in D4 they do things for all jobs, or in DND like games there is a reason you might hybrid even just a little.

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The same is true for the main stats excluding Vitality. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Mind all exist in a vacuum. Every single action on any given job scales to exactly to one of those stats. The only exceptions are that discipline of magic auto attacks scale off I think Strength, and Summoner's physick. It would make things a lot cleaner to merge them all into one singular stat: ability power, and then possibly remove auto attacks from disciplines of magic entirely if we do not want them scaling off autos as well. That also allows for a much more flexible gearing system that also results in less items to create.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

If PIE and TEN did something for the other jobs I'd agree

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PIE used to work on other jobs, so you could boost MP on BLM, SMN or PLD to do more magic for example. DPS jobs used to have Tenacity's former iteration, Parry, as actual abilities. So they don't have to be role-restricted; it was just a decision by SE to help hand-hold players a bit and make it clear who the stat was really intended for.

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I don't think comparing it to main stats is quite right given main stats usually have purpose even in single player games

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The same argument can be made for substats like TEN and PIE, but currently the main stats are in the exact same boat as TEN and PIE in that they are only useful for specific job roles.

It would just make the stat page look so tiny and boring compared to when it released and was full of RPG stats.

Vitality
Attack Power
Rolestat
Crit
DH
Det
ActionSpeed
Defense
Magic Defense (why not merge defenses if we're doing this...)
Item Level

That would be the entire character page if this happened and would strip it of almost any sense of RPG, even if it's just a visual thing and already like this in practice.

This would probably just force people onto Determination. Materia is so fucking dull in this game to begin with

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Originally Posted by Oizen

This would probably just force people onto Determination. Materia is so fucking dull in this game to begin with

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Is true. Peoples would still stacks crit buts now them would be doings it with two stats.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I don't agree with that because using that logic, we could also merge all the main stats into Mastery like happens in other games ie. Intelligence, Dexterity, Strength, Mind. I don't support that because it would make the stat system even more boring and is more hand-holdy than even casual players require.

I mean we have stats in single players games and people have always worked with them, we really don't need to go so far as to combine them all into one.

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If those stats legitimately don't do anything, there's no point in having them, there's already no choice in increasing the main stats outside ilvl and if I had my way, I would rather get rid of the substats to make the main stats more diverse in function so that a PLD or DRG would have a reason to have points in Dexterity or Mind. Bloating out the stat sheet with a bunch of stats that amount to "it does nothing" is needless and bad design.

Also the stat system being boring is because it offers no depth, if you want the system to be better, padding it with 5 identical stats doesn't help it, it only convolutes it with useless choices. Why do we need Strength, Dexterity, Mind, Intelligence, and Determination if they all amount to "increase damage/healing"? Why even bother telling a BLM player about Strength when the only thing that matters to them is Intelligence? Why do we have the duplicate stat of Determination when the main stat already does Determinations job? The main stats could be replaced purely by ilvl and nothing would change, if anything, that's pretty much how they function already. To make the system better, the stats all need to be useful to the jobs in some form. If Dexterity increased critical rate then all jobs would be fine with Dexterity. If Mind increased MP, maybe a DRK or BLM would want some instead of only padding out their usual main stat.

It's better to have few meaningful choices than lots of useless choices.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

Also the stat system being boring is because it offers no depth, if you want the system to be better, padding it with 5 identical stats doesn't help it, it only convolutes it with useless choices. Why do we need Strength, Dexterity, Mind, Intelligence, and Determination if they all amount to "increase damage/healing"?

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Well yes, if SE could replace them with actually useful and diverse stats that function like Logos Actions or Lost Actions then maybe, but so far it doesn't seem like something they would do outside of those areas.

See, I have a better idea:

Strength: Damage for Maiming, Fending and Striking jobs
Dexterity: Damage for Scouting, Aiming and Striking jobs
Vitality: Max. HP
Intelligence: Damage for Casting and Healing jobs
Mind: Healing and barrier potency

Determination: Overall damage, healing and barrier potency
Critical Hit: Chance of dealing a critical hit and critical damage
Speed: Cast and recast timers, auto-attack delay, dot/hot tick speed and movement speed
Luck: Chance of procs (Chakra, Repertoire, Firestarter, etc, everything that has a chance to happen) and damage of proc actions (Straight Shot, Verfire/Verstone, Reverse Cascade/Bladeshower)
Tenacity: Damage resistance and self heal, only for tanks
Piety: Mana regeneration, only for healers

I quite like the idea of the Luck stat there. Don't mind me as I steal it.

The stats I'd go for would probably look more like this:

• Power - Increases damage and healing
• Dexterity - Increases critical rate
• Vitality - Increases maximum HP
• Mind - Increases maximum MP
• Agility - Decreases GCD cast/recast time
• Luck - Increases proc rate and critical damage

That said, if I really had my way, pretty much most jobs would make use of MP in some form, yes that would include non-magic jobs like WAR, DRG, MNK, etc., just so MND would be beneficial to them in some way and possibly affect their rotation in a way that just simply upping damage doesn't achieve.

Imagine for example that Inner Release on WAR had a short cooldown, but consumed all your MP, and however much MP you spent would determine the amount of IR stacks. Let's also assume that doing the rotation also gave enough MP to let you use 3 IR stacks every 60s like now. Suddenly MND becomes a "I can Fell Cleave even MORE" stat, which gives a meaningful change to its rotation since that can also affect things like the Infuriate cooldown and when you might want to burst.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

The same is true for the main stats excluding Vitality. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, and Mind all exist in a vacuum. Every single action on any given job scales to exactly to one of those stats. The only exceptions are that discipline of magic auto attacks scale off I think Strength, and Summoner's physick. It would make things a lot cleaner to merge them all into one singular stat: ability power, and then possibly remove auto attacks from disciplines of magic entirely if we do not want them scaling off autos as well. That also allows for a much more flexible gearing system that also results in less items to create.

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Haha, that is true. When I was thinking of core stats I was thinking of games that actually cared to have interesting stats and mentally immediately foregone FFXIV. They were a bit easier to balance given type of game though.

Honestly the primary stats in this game is a bit just of a word for thematic sake, and thematic sake only. I wonder if it is even important if the primary stat is present at all. Given that they, where it maters, essentially scale off item level.. you're already expressing the power in that way. Just purge primary stat and say your attack and ability power directly scale with the item level of equipped gear.

It's akin to what you're saying except we just skip the whole line item altogether since we are already expressing it, in 98% of cases, by item level. If I recall there are some items that might be for other 'things' that have item level that may seem weird, but if anything this would just smooth out those issues so players aren't wearing things that give them item level but are entirely useless stat wise (and I can't recall if this was already fixed entirely, it might have been more of a 1.0 / early 2.0 thing, it's certainly not a 6.5 "current content" thing, given all gear is either restricted or level 1 glamour).

Vitality and defense could honestly be the same, tank's HP just taking into account the item level of defensive equipment.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

PIE used to work on other jobs, so you could boost MP on BLM, SMN or PLD to do more magic for example. DPS jobs used to have Tenacity's former iteration, Parry, as actual abilities. So they don't have to be role-restricted; it was just a decision by SE to help hand-hold players a bit and make it clear who the stat was really intended for.

The same argument can be made for substats like TEN and PIE, but currently the main stats are in the exact same boat as TEN and PIE in that they are only useful for specific job roles.

It would just make the stat page look so tiny and boring compared to when it released and was full of RPG stats.

Vitality
Attack Power
Rolestat
Crit
DH
Det
ActionSpeed
Defense
Magic Defense (why not merge defenses if we're doing this...)
Item Level

That would be the entire character page if this happened and would strip it of almost any sense of RPG, even if it's just a visual thing and already like this in practice.

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That's a fair concern.

On one hand our stats are so straight forward that you could just have "item level" and "secondary stats" describe your character effectively, and on the other hand you'd have very basic very empty page. Either a façade or boring truth lol. I laugh but I am not knocking the idea that sometimes a façade can be better than the truth. I think that will be down to player preference, if they prefer a pretty fake wrapping or the direct truth.

Part of me doesn't like how meaningless it is, and so I appreciate the simplicity of showing reality, but I think the romantic and dreamy side would not only lean towards keeping it 'full' but actually giving a bit more reasons to "something" about that page. Given SE's conservative approach it would just be some more interesting secondary stats and perhaps a minor excuse to stats, such that 'MAYBE' you might see intelligence potion used on a Dark Knight or something because it actually did 'something' to the point someone is thinking about the stat as value even if it's a niche situation. My more pipe dream would be honestly akin to classic RPGs with varied and thematic stats and effects, which are significantly greater hell to balance.. to be totally fair (and my middle ground of hell and balance would be something akin to what I suggested earlier, with interesting effects you earn and set).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I laugh but I am not knocking the idea that sometimes a façade can be better than the truth.

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SE is all about the visual anyway at this point. The differences between jobs are mostly in the animations and visual effects and weapons now. Some would even argue that about mechanics if they are sick of donut > out aoes. It can even be argued about the MSQ considering how huge a percent of it is watching rather than doing. Visual and appearance is kinda what this game is about really.

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Originally Posted by TheDustyOne

I quite like the idea of the Luck stat there. Don't mind me as I steal it.

The stats I'd go for would probably look more like this:

• Power - Increases damage and healing
• Dexterity - Increases critical rate
• Vitality - Increases maximum HP
• Mind - Increases maximum MP
• Agility - Decreases GCD cast/recast time
• Luck - Increases proc rate and critical damage

That said, if I really had my way, pretty much most jobs would make use of MP in some form, yes that would include non-magic jobs like WAR, DRG, MNK, etc., just so MND would be beneficial to them in some way and possibly affect their rotation in a way that just simply upping damage doesn't achieve.

Imagine for example that Inner Release on WAR had a short cooldown, but consumed all your MP, and however much MP you spent would determine the amount of IR stacks. Let's also assume that doing the rotation also gave enough MP to let you use 3 IR stacks every 60s like now. Suddenly MND becomes a "I can Fell Cleave even MORE" stat, which gives a meaningful change to its rotation since that can also affect things like the Infuriate cooldown and when you might want to burst.

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It’s an interesting stat spread that I think I’d be into depending on how the game adapted to it. But absolutely agree on MP. I think MP is a far more interesting way to manage resources than cooldowns. Not everything can be on an MP system obviously, but for some actions, cooldowns just take away the choice. Take Bards personal DPS buffs for example. Why not make Barrage cost MP and let the bard player choose which actions to augment with it rather than have it basically exist on an automated system. Why is it even a button at this point rather than a proc that automatically triggers every 120 seconds?